Whiff City
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That’s another thing I didn’t mention was Oak Hill. We got Preston last year from there and while it sounds like Billy won’t be here when David would be it doesn’t hurt to have a connection to one of the premiere HS teams in the country.
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I haven’t seen McCormack mention Oklahoma St since the summer. It doesn’t sound like they are getting one of his official visits either. So unless something changes it sounds like them hiring his AAU coach didn’t end up having a big effect on what he’s going to do. The CB’s will change and they could go KU’s way after his official…
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Well read where we landed on a recruits final five once again. Doesn’t really amount to a lot I don’t think but Louis King announced final five of: - - Oregon , NC State , Seton Hall , KU , & Purdue.
Seems like a pretty solid at this point to Oregon, not really thinking much chance here but you never know stranger things have happened. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Grimes has cut Arizona from consideration… that’s huge
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Honestly, not super high on Louis King. He’s not a great athlete, his handle is probably roughly average and he’s an above average but not elite shooter. I am just not sure how he transitions to a collegiate wing at KU and is anything more than Andrew White. Maybe others have a different take, but I just don’t see it.
This class is top heavy, but light on depth, so he could get ranked top 25 or top 30, but really be more like a 40-60 guy. For comparison’s sake, in 2016, the highest a player rated lower than 90 was ranked in ESPN’s 100 was 29th. In 2017, an 89 got you ranked 31st. In 2015, 2014 and 2013 it went 20, 30 and 23.
A deep class takes players rated above 90 to about 30. Anything less than that, the class lacks depth. The first player rated less than 90 is at 25. But what is even more telling is that this class only has 4 guys rated 95 or higher. There aren’t really any truly elite prospects, and there’s not a lot of depth. 2018 is going to be a year where not a lot of freshmen arrive on campus ready to contribute because there just aren’t any elite level guys.
I think Self has seen that possibility and has planned for it with the Lawson brothers, Charlie Moore and Sam Cunliffe, all of whom are likely to be more ready to contribute than any prospect outside the top 12-15 in the 2018 class. Throw in Marcus Garrett and you have a solid starting five whether Vick returns or not.
Self may have done it again - we just don’t know it yet.
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@BeddieKU23 Soooo now what? - -that what leaves KU & ? down to 2 now right?
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@justanotherfan ya I really haven’t hear a lot of super positive reviews on him either. - Not a lot of vibes ya know what I mean? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Agree to an extent on King. He’s kind of a jack of all trades type wing. He’s actually the type I would expect to see land at Villanova. I think he’s an excellent catch and shoot type, rebounder and defender. Those traits fit at KU but if we are going to keep recruiting the uber elite wings maybe he isn’t the best fit in that light.
I think the most interesting part of King’s recruitment has been that Calipari turned him down after he basically begged them for an offer this summer. King played for Cal during Team USA ball and still didn’t impress Cal enough to get him that offer. That could be because King figures to be a multi-year player in College at a position that is routinely producing OAD types every season.
I think King’s ranking will even out a bit more across the platforms and he’ll end up in that 20’s to low 30’s range. It seems if Oregon has his attention and if he doesn’t land there I’m not sure where he’d go unless KU was out of the Zion race and had a chance to get him in the spring…
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@BeddieKU23 Wait – Grimes didn’t have Arizona in his final 4. - -He is down to Ku , Kentucky , Marquette & Texas - – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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He’s really down to 1 school but these kids have to play it out
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Just read where Devon’s dad said their in home visit with Coach Self and Howard went great last night. Siad lots of questions asked like about KU academics - - - KU support staff- - - to where they will live- - - what will they eat - - - and How closely they will be monitored.
According to Dotson father Dana - - -says they like what they heard.Said that see hi coming in and being their starting PG from day 1. - -says how they stressed that over and over.
The ONE thing that needs to be brought out is though 1st is that it is NOT a promise , 2ndly nor is it a guarantee - -What they told Dana is They Believe. that is what they think.
Dana said visit went great, Said KU - -Coach Self talked about why KU is the best fit for Devon, talked a lot about the vison for Devon what is and should be important for Devon and how KU fits those wants. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I did not say KU is not in play, I just said that he does not seem to THE program in play at this time.
You talk about wasting an offcial visit…well, once he makes all five offcial visits will you said he wasted the four other official visits? I think not. Remember, he made 9 unofficial visits on his own dime.
I know the crystal ball is not the be all, end all of recruiting predictions; however, many of the raters (obviously not all) are well informed and competent analysts that have a lot more inside information than we do. You can take the individual prediction any way you want based on your opinion of the rater but, when you look at the overall trend, in most cases is not that bad and at this time KU dose not seem to be ahead of the other schools.
Again, I am not saying KU is not in play, obviously it is since he has scheduled an offcial visit but that is just an indicator that KU is in play, that is all. Do you know how many top players have taken offcial visit to KU and signed with other programs? It happens, it’s the nature of the process.
As I said before, the only sure prospect is the one that has signed the LOI.
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Yes, AAU coaches can be a huge factor. Remember Beasley and Walker, two top players that would have never considered KSU ended up there because of their relationship with Delonte Hill in the AAU circuit.
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@JayHawkFanToo No he won’t of wasted ANY of his five officials - -as they are his Officials. and with them being officials they are schools that are in serious contention, and as far as CB’s are concerned I think a lot of people are starting to see how much weight they in reality hold - - -not much, too many cases of recruits being seen as CB leaders for a certain school and end up somewhere else.
Like many many others other then myself on other sites have said a lot of times with these analysts if they see one analyst make a prediction and they think this guy might have a little more info - -then they jump the train goin off his prediction whether they believe it or not -educated guess - that’s it. - -but anyways we will see where he lands but I’ll stick with my prediction - -he WILL NOT end up at Oklahoma St, a lot better chance of Duke as they have been on him for quite awhile. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Let me turn your own question back to you, that you ask me. – . You asked me if I’m not using the comments as the main reason I see KU as being a major player, then is it the un-official visit? You say he has had 9 un-official so far.
So let me turn it around right back to you. If your not just using the CB’S as the main reason that you see KU as being that school that is NOT the program in play at this time- -then what is the reason you don’t see KU as the Program in play at this time? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Just checkin’ in. But I definitely WILL be coming to KU. Big Davy Mac and Z-Will will also be joining me.
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Just read Grimes dates for his officials. - -Texas, Sept 22nd. - - Kentucky , Sept 29th - - KU , Oct 13 - -& Marquette , Oct 20th
We shall see what happens. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If we can’t land a legacy, who we offered and were all over for an entire YEAR before UK, who TF can we land?
Grimes is coming here. We have visited him nearly 10 times. We were the 3rd school to offer him. We have put the time and effort in. We have done all of the right things. If we lost him to UK, I just don’t see how there couldn’t be something dirty going on. This would be the last straw for me. I couldn’t NOT believe that Nike, Adidas and agents 100% dictate where most top 25 kids go.
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You keep misquoting me even when I specifically said in two separate posts…I am not saying KU is not in play.
KU is very much in play but based on what I have read to date it is not the leader, OSU is by virtue of the relationship he has with the assistant coach there that was his AAU coach.
For the third time, I am not saying KU is not in play…
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How are they the leader if there is no official visit scheduled to OSU at this point
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2018-19 is shaping up to be a year where a more veteran team could emerge for the national title simply because the depth isn’t there for the incoming class.
Unless one team is able to sign four top 15 players, it’s hard to see a team dominated by freshmen rising above the fray.
Teams that have top returning players should rocket to the top over the course of the season. Of course, the risk is that this parity just means lots of teams have a shot at the title rather than just a handful because the talent levels will be so close come tournament time.
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NC ST landed a top 100 center yesterday. Important because big dave visited there. Have to think that’s another positive sign
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Looks like a PF but I doubt it hurts KU. I think KU is well positioned here.
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And yeah if Grimes ends up at UK I just…fwrlt241351 3l41rw4…
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@BShark ok after your mini-stroke?
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KU is clearly the leader on Grimes, Dotson and Zion and there is plenty of information to back that up. The information on Big Dave is not readily available only that he has made 9 unofficial visit, one official and one scheduled official to KU; seems logical that he would make all the available official visits.
The most recent predictions, including Jerry Meyer who many in the forum respect indicate OSU. KU would seem to be in a good place but no one has updated his prediction. McCormack has said the right things about the places he visited but not really given any indication on his final destination. McCormack might very well end up at KUand if KU gets the other 3 prospects, it could be one of the better classes ever.
As I have said before, the only sure prospect is the one that has signed a LOI, until then, every program is in play. Remember when Ayton was just about 100% KU? So much for that…
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@JayHawkFanToo and for the THIRD time – -he WILL NOT end up at Okla St - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 He doesn’t know. - -All he knows or so he thinks anyways is that KU is not the leader good for him - I’m tired of trying to lead a horse to water. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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OK. So only your opinion counts? Got it.
Remember that absent facts all we can offer is opinions and they are just that…opinions, and as such they are not right or wrong just different…unless they are your apparently in which case they are right and others wrong.
I never said or implied you were wrong, I simply asked for the rationale for your opinion; I would appreciate if you would extend others the same courtesy.
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@JayHawkFanToo right. - -and you never answered my question when I turned it back to you. - - - Still waiting - -thanks. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Must be nice to have a decent football program. Dotson and his dad sure looked like they were into that game… Would suck if Florida football just helped them land Dotson.
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You need to take the blinders off and actually read what I wrote, the answer is there…it is just not what you want it to be so you just ignore it. Nothing else I can add.
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@JayHawkFanToo ok, thanks for the insight. - -so enlightening, I hope I can one day when I grow up be able to comprehend like you thank you. - have a great day. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Ok so @jayballer54 I’m curious why you are so certain about where Dave isn’t going? You’ve stated several times that’s what you believe, but haven’t supported your argument. Just assume I haven’t read any of the recruiting stuff from the crystal ball (as I think it’s bunk) don’t pay for 247 sports (why would I?) and only get info from free internet sources that hopefully don’t contain a million viruses (ESPN and KUSports mainly). So what information that is making you so confident that McCormack is going to one school or another? I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe one way or another just curious what your thoughts are.
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OK, guys, let me get this straight. Both of you have an opinion of who is the leader for some recruit, neither of you has any definitive actual information on the subject, both of you have cited some information that you claim supports your opinion, each of you challenges the sources of each other’s opinion, both of you claim you (a) supported your own and (b) asked for why the other one has an opinion that seems very strong, and you both seem to agree that CBs and recruit comments are not definitive predictors of a player’s ultimate destination.
Now you decide to start snarling at each other, blah blah blah–typifying way too much internet interaction.
Can you both please try to repeat the words, “We are each entitled to our own opinion” without adding nasty comments?
Here is my own, as if it matters: the relationship with the OSU coach gives a good reason why OSU is in the mix, but we know from many many recruitments that offers from blue bloods (esp Duke and UK) can often win over personal ties. You each have valid points. But you both keep asking for proof of opinions–it doesn’t work that way!
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@dylans I can ask the same question as to why people feel so confident That we are not a major player for him. - -Look this could go on banter back and forth - -not worth it, at least not to me, I’ve have more serious thing to concentrate on such as my upcoming Stress tests on my heart and multiple other tests concerning my heart - that’s some for me to really concentrate. Look we can opposite opinions, it’s some just only want to hear their favorable side. CB’S are a bunch of crap - -been proven multiple times tell me that isn’t so. If you put your belief in CB’S then you must still believe in Santa Claus too lmao.
Don’t need proof, it’s me - it’s my gut feeling and I will say again and feel very very confident - -David McCormack WILL NOT commit to Oklahoma St, again David McCormack WILL NOT commit to Oklahoma State. period. - like I said it is fruitless to keep going back and forth back and forth I have an opinion just as others have theire.
You may think mine is crazy unfounded ridicilious what ever that’s fine, that’s people’s right to think that. I have no problem with that just as I have my right. - Is this not an open forum? - -Are we always suppose to agree 100 with one another? if sooooo then I don’t honestly know what to tell ya, Hell 'm suppose to agree with the ol lady 100% of the time - -doesn’t happen - -still married lmao. Tis is not the first time people have agreed won’t be the last. I’m just not going to pursue this particular question any further , before it gets out of hand. I enjoy this room anyways bottom line we all want whats best for KYU I think we can all agree on that - -My thoughts McCormack is either here at KU - -or Duke but no way in hell will he land at Oklahoma St -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Thanks - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 You can save money by just having the doctor attach the EKG leads to your chest after a lengthy session on the Board. No other stress inducers necessary!
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@mayjay Lmao, hey good idea lol - -only two problems. what about the electrocardiogram & Heart Cath lol? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I wasn’t disagreeing with ya. I just was wondering what you were basing your opinion on. I have no info one way or the other. There has been zero back and forth between us, I have read this whole thread and was wondering where you were coming from. Here I was hopeful that you’d have a link to read or some positive distraction. That’s all.
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@dylans Nope - no link just my gut - -sorry - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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David McCormack schedules official visit to OK St. for Oct. 14th per reports.
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Interesting notes on the Dotson front. According to Matt He didn’t see the ending of the Florida game (which is the only positive it seems on that front).
Florida insider is awful confident he announces for them in the next week. He says he has ties to the Dotson recruitment. Surprisingly no CB action yet to Florida but I get the sense the writing is on the wall.
Would be interesting to know why there was even information leaking saying he was done to KU in July/August if in fact that ended up being false. Information like that is not helpful to anyone and just creates the sense that KU has missed on yet another target they went for. Maybe he was Florida’s all along with the PT available and the relationship they formed with the staff and the KU talk was junk. In the end a majority of these kids just don’t want to live in Kansas no matter how good the facilities, the coach, the team, the history etc…
Further I’m not sure what Self has to do to land elite point guards at this point if Dotson goes to Florida. Shouldn’t Frank Mason’s success have changed things? It seems as though KU has to literally have zero PG’s on the roster for that to happen. Disappointing if this happens.
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KU has not had a single first round PG under Self. They have had high recruits - Collins, Chalmers, Selby. They have had all conference and all Americans - Mason, Miles, Taylor. But they have not had a first rounder. That’s a boatload of highly talented guys that have not, for one reason or another, translated to NBA stardom.
Every single guy I listed, with the exception of Selby, was a very good collegiate player at a minimum. Several of those guys were legitimately great collegiate players. But Self has yet to solve the jump from college to the NBA at the PG position. That’s why the success of Newman this year is so important. Self has to show other PGs that he can take a highly talented player and make them a lottery pick from the PG position.
We knock Calipari on this board all the time, but his PGs almost never miss when they come in that highly touted. Wall and Bledsoe are legit stars. Knight is a starter. Fox was a lottery pick. Tyler Ulis is a solid NBA backup. That track record is pretty impressive. Self can’t match that, and he’s had McDs AA’s at his disposal.
Newman is a referendum on Self’s ability to translate talent to draft pick at the PG position. At this point, that’s the only thing that can really change the current perception of Self (in my eyes) on the recruiting front at PG.
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@justanotherfan Newman is a shooting guard, right?
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Newman is an NBA PG. He doesn’t really have a future in the NBA as a 2 because of his size, so I am considering him a PG for this exercise. It actually benefits KU if others consider him a PG as well, because recruits will see a scoring PG at KU, which could lead to some recruiting currency later on. I hope Self has Newman playing on-ball at least 40% of the time, letting him run the show sometimes even with Devonte on the floor.
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I agree that Self has a reputation with PG’s that is hard to overcome when he’s recruiting the very best in the land. Dotson should be a player Self can get though. There has been a significant amount of time and effort placed on securing his commitment.
What is Mike White offering that Self can’t? Mike White certainly has even less of a reputation for putting his players into the NBA.
I would say Devon and his family putting his NBA future in the hands of Mike White is a far riskier move then Bill Self. And while Dotson has seen his stock rise considerably from where it was in the spring I wouldn’t consider him a 1st round type at the moment unless he magically becomes a better athlete and perimeter shooter. I would also question what Florida has put into the league that stands out at the point guard position?
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@BeddieKU23 I’m not going to say one way or another with Devon. - -I’m just going to have that old scenario wait and see approach I guess. - -I mean as is so typical after a visit these guys are going to put out nothing but positive things for their fans to read. - -99-100 they aren’t going to put out anything saying that a recruit says sorry but nope I’m am not interested in your school - -your school sucks or negative material like that. - I’m not saying obviously that’s what Devon said - -I’m not saying he didn’t say a lot of positive things about Florida - -chances are he did -what recruit doesn’t?
Almost any recruit even the recruits after they visit KU have nothing but good things to say about the school, it’s just the way it seems to go after a visit. - -So chances are he did tell this Insider positive things for Florida. -Let’s sit back for a couple of days and just watch - -see, I agree if it does turn out this way - - then I am stumped - -I just don’t get it, but we shall see. But for this guy sounds like he thumping his chest pretty hard about something happening within the week? - - umm I don’t know about all that. - -Something tells me we STILL aren’t in as bad as shape as some may think - might be wrong but. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Let’s think of this like investments. In one case, you have an investor with a long track record, but it’s a record of mediocre returns with your type of product (i.e. PGs), even over a long term (i.e., lots of talent, just a few second round picks, or undrafted free agents after good college careers).
On the other hand, you have an investor with a much shorter high level track record who has never really done much at this level. On the one hand, you’re looking at the unknown. On the other hand, it’s the unknown against a record of underperformance in this particular area. In this situation, Mike White’s lack of history is actually a benefit in a direct competition against Self because he doesn’t have his past shortcomings weighing him down (something White has no doubt pointed out to Dotson and his family).
I’m not saying White is a better coach, obviously. Just that if you’re Dotson and you’re putting your draft future into one program or another, the program that hasn’t produced a first rounder with multiple McDs AAs and collegiate stars may not be your first choice because you can’t even argue that Self hasn’t had talent at the position, or that Self hasn’t had guys play well at the point. They just haven’t translated to the NBA.
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BeddieKU23 said:
I agree that Self has a reputation with PG’s that is hard to overcome when he’s recruiting the very best in the land. Dotson should be a player Self can get though. There has been a significant amount of time and effort placed on securing his commitment.
What is Mike White offering that Self can’t? Mike White certainly has even less of a reputation for putting his players into the NBA.
I would say Devon and his family putting his NBA future in the hands of Mike White is a far riskier move then Bill Self. And while Dotson has seen his stock rise considerably from where it was in the spring I wouldn’t consider him a 1st round type at the moment unless he magically becomes a better athlete and perimeter shooter. I would also question what Florida has put into the league that stands out at the point guard position?
I honestly don’t think it matters much where Dotson goes. Florida has been on him a long time too. All that said it would be a tough miss to swallow, especially since Self/the staff made the choice to go hard after Grimes and Dotson when they could have just as easily pressed on Carey and/or Ayo who I believe KU had a great shot at before slow playing due to Grimes/Dotson.
Honestly if Dotson goes to UF then Grimes becomes a near must land recruit. And I’m hesitant to say that any recruit is must land for KU. KU would obviously move on if Grimes picked UK (he very well might, as UK wants the first to commit of Grimes and Keldon Johnson) but it would be pretty awful when you consider… His mom went to KU, he is an Adidas kid, KU was his third D1 offer/has been on him since forever and he is tremendously talented.
