Whiff City
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@jayballer54 I’m calling it now based on what I’m reading.
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Maybe this will help to keep y’all optimistic on recruiting: KU was to have an in-house with the other Zion today. He has several lined up this week, from which he will make choices for official visits.
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I’m not convinced Dotson goes anywhere but Lawrence. If anything, he may have been irritated everyone thought it was a done deal. Let him get the Florida visit done, then we’ll see. Losing Zion Griffin was a bummer. He’s the next Burton at ISU.
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@mayjay Zion Williamson announced he will officially visit KU on Sept 30th - - - late Night at the phog. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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debby downers
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Grimes has cancelled his KU visit and will visit Kentucky on that date instead.
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@BShark I DO have to say - - - even though I still feel confident about getting Grimes & Dotson there sure seems to be some negative trends coming out of the recruits.
This to me all seems to go down a road we have walked before, and that is do we have a staff that closes the deal? IF for a reason we were to lose out on these guys - -these are two that were considered heavy leans the entire year and then to lose out? - - That tells me that SOMEONE is dropping the ball. - -It happened last year with Ayton & now if it happens again this year? - -What is going on? is it time to question Howard - - - -is it time to question Snacks?
This would just be an indicator that for some reason guys aren’t finishing the deal. I am no expert - -by far but you have to stay on these guys 24/7 - -it can’t be the theory well things look pretty solid for this guy so let’s concentrate on other recruits as we have these guys locked down - Or is it that we are trying to battle the Mega Bluebloods for these guys and end up losing out and then end up missing on others because we spend TO much time on the elite - -elite- - and end up missing on both? -Something smells - -maybe it’s time for a shakeup in your recruiting staff. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’m guessing but I think Zion coming for Late Night had something to do with the Grimes situation. Zion is the center of attention that night and I can imagine the staff wants to bring in Grimes when they can focus solely on him. You don’t want him feeling like he’s not getting the attention he wants. The other way to look at this is negatively especially coming off an in-home visit and he’s canceling a visit? Grimes has canceled visits to KU a few times now since the summer and has constantly deflected the media from getting him to say KU is the favorite or he’s a lean/lock to KU. Enough of that negativity though. Optimistically we hope Grimes is coming back at a later date for a visit and everything pointing to KU being his destination holds true…
In the same light, it might have been better to have Zion here a different weekend but we all know the Zion camp is running things so if they say they are coming you just roll out the carpet for them. With a player like Zion maybe its best to have your big showcase night with your top prospect there to see it. The exposure he’ll get will be 2nd to none compared to a normal football weekend (where he just went to Clemson and KU is no Clemson). The more I think about it, Zion will get to see how much Lawrence is centered around the BB team and that can’t hurt things. Honestly, KU should be trying to get Dotson on campus for another unofficial for LN. The chemistry between Zion & Devon would be easy to sell with them both on campus at the same time.
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Even without landing anyone, this team is still capable of making a run next season.
- PG - Moore
- SG - Garrett
- SF - Vick
- PF - Lawson/De Sousa
- C - Lawson
Top 10 lineup. Landing any of these guys just makes us more of a NC favorite. I honestly expect to still land Dotson, but perhaps not Grimes at this point. Losing either of them is a huge miss for the staff, but Bill was smart enough to take high level transfers that he can count on if he did swing and miss. Not a bad way to hedge bets… Take the sure thing and then swing for the fences the rest of the time you’re recruiting.
With De Sousa and Dotson being on the same visit, Dotson is in the bag. If De Sousa had that good of a time, so did Devon. He probably feels like he HAS to visit Florida out of courtesy I’m sure. But I’m as confident as ever he ends up in Crimson and Blue.
Grimes worries me for several reasons and I could see that slipping.
I would say Langford could still be in the picture. Staff is visiting with him tomorrow. They need to get him on campus. A Langford and Zion combo could be amazing to watch.
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Grimes’s visit to Late Night was planned to be unofficial anyway. I can’t really blame the kid for taking a paid trip elsewhere when he’d have to pay to come to Late Night.
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@Kcmatt7 That line-up has no depth and one guard. However of course the staff will land more players, who they will be I do not know. I read a lot of concerning stuff about Dotson, we will see.
Oh and apparently KU made Antwann Jones final 4. He does not have a KU offer. Top 75 guard.
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@BShark I agree with you, no depth with that line up he mentioned and umm would be nice to have quality players in the fold for the future - -your right we better LAND SOMEBODY lmao - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Grimes broke down the pitch and what he likes most about his four finalists:
Texas: Coach Smart has really stressed how me and Matt Coleman could complement each other perfectly. Matt’s more of a passing point guard and I’m more of a scoring guard and he’d be able to look for me and we’d be able to play really well in that offense. I know most of those guys there because most of those guys are from Houston and I feel like we could play really well together in their system.
Kentucky: They came in on Sunday and their main pitch is to see me and another guard they get to be able to come in there and have the same goal, which is win a National Championship and just really get to the next level. They feel like they would be a great fit for me to get to my goals of making the NBA and also develop me on the court as a leader and as a person off the court. That was their pitch.
Kansas: They say I’m their top priority right now and they have to sign me. They see me coming in and playing right away and being the leader of that team and being the primary scorer and lead the team in scoring and be able to play with other good guards and other good players like the Lawson brothers. I could come in and be the man at Kansas for sure.
Marquette: They’ve been consistent the whole summer. They were 3 deep at almost every game and front row at every game. Their whole message is I’m the only guard they are recruiting. Come in there and be in the backcourt with Markus Howard. He’s a shooter and we can both shoot the ball pretty well and really just take over the program and try and take it to the new level.
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There is a range of sophistication in those pitches. Texas and Kentucky sound competent and appear to be appealing to the rational mind: they have a plan and they are thinking of how he fits into their system and how his goals and their goal align. Kansas and Marquette sound like they are appealing to the ego… The pitches sound desperate – like all the eggs are in one basket – and full of promises that kids what to hear; superficial.
Very interesting.
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@BShark I seen it - -I’m not including Marquette. I think they are a non factor. – Smart is becoming a pain in the ass, like a tiny burr underneath the saddle , but someone we have to take into accountability -especially with Coleman there and then knowing most of there players and Grimes being from Texas. - Smart has done a good job at attracting quality players, going to be someone to contend with in a year or two.
As far as Kentucky’s spill to Grimes - -they said nothing that KU couldn’t do for him if he chose to come here: - -Grimes being with another guard they are hoping to bring it ( Quickley ) with the same goal of National Championship? - - -KU matches that with hopefully bringing in another guard ( Dotson ) what kid doesn’t come in with not the aspiration of winning a National Championship? - -Kentucky feels they really get him to the next level - - Why wouldn’t he feel KU couldn’t get him to the next level - -no difference there. - -Kentucky feels they would be a great fit for Grimes to get to my goals of making NBA - -and KU wouldn’t? - -so their spill ain’t squat - -they have nothing with that approach that we don’t have.
As far as KU – uhhh I don’t know if he is quoting EXACT words from the staff or not. - -I have a LITTLE trouble thinking Coach Self actually came out and said that we HAVE TO SIGN HIM. - -I’m just not quite sure Coach would ever come out and say we HAVE to, with or without him we will survive, I mean ya a priority sure but HAVE TO SIGN I don’t see the Coach telling a kid that. Plus I’m not for sure positive they are going to tell him that he will be our primary scorer - - I’m not sure we need a primary scorer like he says led the team in scoring. KU has usually for the most part been a very balanced scoring team - -makes me wonder if he will be a black hole when he has the ball - - he has some cockiness, not a bad thing stating that he could come in and be THE MAN at Kansas for sure, I like the kid would be a huge get but maybe reading to much into it but their are some things that he says makes me kind of wonder - is he a kid that never see’s a shot that he didn’t like? - it’s all about Team at KU - -we shall see - Grimes says he is working on to solidfy official visits working on to finalize later this week,
He wants to take visits - - see the campus - -& see the practices, get overall view of the campus - -see how each Coach views him in their system. - -Not in a hurry to make College Choice.- - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@bskeet Like I said in my response - -I’m not really 100% sure Coach Self came out and actually said We HAVE to sign you. maybe adding a little mustard to the whole thing - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Self has missed on kids before by taking the other approach and telling the kid they will have to earn it. Maybe he changes it up based on his read on the kid now. From everything I’ve read before this is very much inline with it. Comments such as Grimes knows he has a starting spot at KU if he wants it etc…
If KU gets Grimes but doesn’t get Zion I could see him and Dedric being the primary offensive options. The kid is an electric scorer.
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I have some concerns about the recent developments too. Things are heating up for sure. Definitely some plusses and minuses.
Losing Zion G to ISU stinks, was hoping he would make it to late night. Great signing by them not letting him off campus without the commit.
Zion W coming to late night is big big big. Would be awesome to land him. He will be a superstar.
David McCormack - i think KU is in a good spot, sounds like a decision might be nearing. This would solitify the post if he picked KU.
The most important piece in my opinion is Dotson. We need guards badly, real badly. He would be a cornerstone on the team. The guy is a stud and reminds me of Frank how he gets into the lane at will. I havent seen anything to suggest he is Florida bound, he hasnt even made it to his visit yet. Not sure where that came from but makes me nervous nonetheless.
Seeing Grimes go to Kentucky when he was supposed to be at KU is concerning for sure. As previously pointed out, the KU visit was unofficial so if there is any saving grace to hold onto that might be it.
I have wondered, in Dotson’s comments he said Self told him he is the best PG in the country, what did Grimes think of that? On the same token, Grimes just said Self told him he is their top priority right now. What does Dotson and Zion think about that? I hope everybody is mature enough to understand that there is some salesmanship going on here. I just hope that it doesnt make it seem like Self isnt a straight shooter. Dont want him to lose credibility over these various comments.
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My biggest question is, Grimes is now down to the four schools. Kentucky, KU , Texas , & Marquette, so we made his final four and he made the statement that he was in the process up sitting up his officials hoping to have them sit by this weekend.
Ok so we made the final four , he had planned on coming to KU on Sept 30th I guess on a un-official but cancelled that visit and is going to Kentucky instead. So my question is this seeing as how we are one of the final four left Why didn’t he just make Sept 30th an official visit in stead of his planned un-official and cancel. He already had made the plans to be here that weekend, I’m sure they would of made it official - -I don’t get that, I mean he is still going to take the official here, so why not the 30th? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Because he wants to visit KU for a game.
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@BShark yea I’m not worried I guess is my point. We don’t need starters. We sure could use them. But our starting group next year looks great and everyone from that lineup minus Vick will probably be back the following season as well.
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@Kcmatt7 If Vick is gone I think 3 starters would need to be signed for KU to be really good again.
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@BShark Yea I suppose. We’ve seen Bill do well with less… It is always funny because there are even times that I want to question him, and then he puts up another 30 win season.
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@Kcmatt7 Right. Should we ever really worry? Bill Self is our coach. We’ll be good. And heck, in a weird season where we might lose (God forbid) nine or ten games and (God forbid again) where don’t win the big 12, that might be the magical national title run as a 5 seed.
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If Vick is back he at least provides some scoring punch. A line-up of Moore, Garrett, Cunliffe or KJ, Dedric and De Sousa would struggle to score. Dedric the only proven scorer among them. Spacing nightmare. Of course I’m probably worrying about nothing but I’m interested to see who Self ends up with.
We need actual games to start this season already.
@HighEliteMajor I’d take that. Self probably would too.
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RockkChalkk said:
I have some concerns about the recent developments too. Things are heating up for sure. Definitely some plusses and minuses.
Losing Zion G to ISU stinks, was hoping he would make it to late night. Great signing by them not letting him off campus without the commit.
Zion W coming to late night is big big big. Would be awesome to land him. He will be a superstar.
David McCormack - i think KU is in a good spot, sounds like a decision might be nearing. This would solitify the post if he picked KU.
The most important piece in my opinion is Dotson. We need guards badly, real badly. He would be a cornerstone on the team. The guy is a stud and reminds me of Frank how he gets into the lane at will. I havent seen anything to suggest he is Florida bound, he hasnt even made it to his visit yet. Not sure where that came from but makes me nervous nonetheless.
Seeing Grimes go to Kentucky when he was supposed to be at KU is concerning for sure. As previously pointed out, the KU visit was unofficial so if there is any saving grace to hold onto that might be it.
I have wondered, in Dotson’s comments he said Self told him he is the best PG in the country, what did Grimes think of that? On the same token, Grimes just said Self told him he is their top priority right now. What does Dotson and Zion think about that? I hope everybody is mature enough to understand that there is some salesmanship going on here. I just hope that it doesnt make it seem like Self isnt a straight shooter. Dont want him to lose credibility over these various comments.
We might be hurt by the fact that we have Charlie at PG and perhaps Florida does not have that type of competition at PG? Also, you wonder how the guys that will be back for sure next year feel about Grimes saying that Self led him to believe that he could be “the man”. But that is the environment when you go after the top guys in the country.
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Self is certainly catering to what guys want to hear and I think that’s a positive step with how things are today in the recruiting world. I don’t blame him for putting that kind of talk out there. Grimes has the talent to be a lead scorer type as a freshman given what is leaving after this year. If I’m a recruit and a HOF coach is saying “hey your good enough to be our best player next year” that would certainly raise my interest in going there. But I’m not these 17-18 year old kids that take so many other things into consideration.
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@BShark Bill could easily take the page out of the 38-1 UK team though. GO BIG. Like just go really big, make the game super clunky, and then run as hard as you can in transition. Win games 70 to 60 where half of the points are offensive rebounds and the other half are from turnovers. Other teams don’t get second chance points because our lineup of 4 guys who can all get 10 rebounds any given night are crashing the boards.
It would be ugly to watch. But I think that team would win a lot of games still.
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Maybe I’m in the minority but I am scared about next years team. We picked up 3 transfers so we know Self is aware of the fact that a lot of talent is likely leaving. Anytime a team is faced with possibly replacing its top 6 players there is going to be concern. Of course we happen to have a coach that is well versed in roster turnover and cooking a whole new batch of players is a strength of his. But this could be the biggest reload in some time and that cannot be overlooked. We should have nothing to worry about given Self’s track record but every coach eventually gets into a situation that becomes hard to overcome and this certainly looks like one of those situations right now.
When games start its going to be important to see how ready Garrett is after showing promise in Italy. He could be the guy we need to make the biggest leap depending on how things play out.
I think KJ is a little better then I might have thought, his brother certainly has the bigger reputation but we should get a ton of production/value from both. I just hope Dedric gets his head on straight and takes advantage of the situation he’s now in because he certainly has the potential to be Big 12 POY and a All-American candidate.
I think Moore would be a perfect backup to an elite level recruit (insert Dotson). I’m just not sold on him being the type of player we need with this group. I think Moore will be better in years 2 & 3 at KU then just expecting him to be the type of guard KU has gotten used to having on the floor. I would love for him to change my mind though.
Beyond that there is doubt Vick & Doke will be back. Either of the 2 coming back would be huge and if both decided to return then KU definitely has the foundation for another championship level squad. But losing both man that’s tough.
I don’t care how people spin it this team absolutely needs recruits such as Dotson, Grimes & Zion to keep up. That’s why Self has a chance with all 3 of them because the exodus of talent leaving is so great. Normally we get 1-2 really good recruits and settle for guys that are willing to play behind more established veterans. The wrinkle this year is we added 3 starter level transfers, not just rotation pieces. Self has to add elite level pieces, its not a “we’re fine” without them situation
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@BeddieKU23 I’d be worried if we hadn’t picked up the transfers. But that is not the case. Dedric is All-American level good. Moore proved himself in a P5 conference as a very solid PG.
Those two things can take a team a long ways.
If Doke, Preston and/or Vick are back that adds another scorer. Garrett looks like he is going to be significantly better than I thought. Him in his So. year will be a legit NBA prospect.
Throw in the combination at the 4 of De Sousa, Lightfoot and KJ and you can play anyone’s style of game or create mismatches at that position.
That team would have enough to be a top 10 team. Maybe not a NC team, but a top 10. When you throw in a guy like Zion that changes the team all by himself. If we were to land two of the 3, i think we would be favorites to win it all. If we landed all 3 I would think that we would be heavy favorites.
But putting out a top 10 team after losing all 5 starters is amazing. Nobody else does that consistently. Not UK, not Duke, nobody but Bill.
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According to the most recent Crystal Ball predictions which you can take them or leave them, here are the players in the top 50 KU is in the run…
- #26 Devon Dotson - KU-81%, Florida 19%
- #17 Quentin Grimes - KU - 100%
- #2 Zion Williamson - KU 43%, UK - 29%, Duke 14%, UNC - 7%
- #21 Emmitt Williams 0 Oregon, 67%, KU - 17%, Florida - 17%
- #49 Jalen Carey - Syracuse 71%, KU -14%
I would say KU is in great shape with Grimes and Dotson and good shape with Zion; nothing to be alarmed at this point.
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I have no disagreement with your optimistic approach to what the roster may look like next year. My concern for next year isn’t the sky is falling, I’m closer to the status quo then the ledge.
I just have concerns about replacing a starting 5 and the detail that goes with that. I also think KU could land better talent at positions it normally has NBA talent. All 3 transfers come with limitations in some way. Dedric would be in the NBA if he didn’t but that’s beside the point. Moore is always going to be playing against players bigger then him and must become a more efficient shooter/facilitator. KJ has to establish what position he’s going to play and continue to improve his shooting.
If Self is able to land Zion and Grimes then I would have very little concern going forward. Both of them have reputations that speak for themselves. Dotson is a cherry on top kind of recruit for KU with Moore in the fold. I thought he proved all summer he was every bit as good as any PG in the class. Big Dave McCormack would give KU great size to pair in the post with De Sousa and the Lawsons/Lightfoot. I also think he’s starting to realize how good he could be after reshaping his body and learning how to play to his strengths. Hopefully any concern I have is alleviated as we find out who’s joining and who ends up leaving.
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KU does not appear to be a likely destination for McCormack with OSU, Duke and Georgia being the candidates.
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KU still rocking a 0% on Silvio De Sousa’s crystal ball.
KU, Xavier and NC State are the players with McCormack with that caveat that if Duke ever amped it up they’d be in strong contention.
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Speaking of Silvio, lol
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@JayHawkFanToo Oh sorry to say but I think KU is a MAJOR player for McCormack - just off the basis of him visiting KU on his own dime and then returning for an official on late night.
On top if you read what he had to say about the University overall, about KU being the foundatation, the founder of Basketball, how is looking at more then just the game, how he brought up different aspects about KU oh ya I think we are a MAJOR player for him no doubt. him talking about Naismith sorry but I think I’m spot on with this - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Having Larry hand you players sure isn’t a bad thing…
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@JayHawkFanToo I am curious why you say that? Duke …OK…but the others?
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He eliminated Georgetown in his last cut down.
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I’m not saying the crystal ball is completely irrelevant, but it’s not the whole picture.
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@jayballer54 Agree-- in fact, even if those are the words that were uttered, we don’t know that it was Self vs. someone else on the staff…
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@BShark Agree with you on this 1000000000% bud. - I am starting to laugh at these dam CB"s more and more all the time - -I don’t think they know anymore then throwing at a dart board. - -just like you pointed out remember Ayton? - now even though it’s not final look at Dotson. - -just couldn’t agree more. - - McCormack we are heavlly involved and good shape with. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Recruits always say good things about programs they visit, particularly if they plan to take an all expense paid official visit in the near future.
If you were a high end recruit, wouldn’t you take all the allowed offcial visit where they treat you like royalty and send you home with some cool school gear to boot? I know I would.
McCormack is friends with OSU assistant coach David Kontaxis who has worked seven years with AAU programs in the Washington, D.C. area, including McCormack’s Team Loaded. McCormack was on an unofficial visit to OSU and apparently made a side trip to Lawrence although he is expected to make an offcial visit later on.
I am not saying that KU is not in play but if you take the comments of recruits after visit as the key, we would have gotten a heck of a lot more top players that visited and had glowing comments about KU. Wouldn’t you agree?
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m not taking his remarks as a key - -I’ll will say this I’ll predict right here - -right now he WILL NOT land at Oklahoma State. - -If not KU then he will land at Duke, they have been in on him for quite some time - No Oklahoma State commit here, mark it own. - - As we pretty well knew ya Oklahoma St right now is his leader in the CB - - And? - -That CB crap is less and less credible all the time, we know that from personal experiences, it’s a crap shoot with the analysts, like taking a dart and throwing at a dart board - -Again mark it down - it will not happen for Okla St with this kid. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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So, if you are not using his comments as the main reason, why do you think KU is in? The unofficial visit? He has made 9 unofficial visits so far.
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McCormack is coming back for late night not even a month after unofficially visiting here. I think KU has been able to get in his ear about Doke’s pending NBA decision and the opportunity for him here. He’s an Adidas kid as well which helps.
Steve Smith, his coach for Oak Hill said he enjoyed his unoffical here and that NC St & Xavier were also schools he was considering with Duke/UCLA also trying to get visits (if he makes it that far). This was his quote " I don’t know if he’ll go past September, he’s getting kind of antsy and I think he likes a couple schools."
If NC St & Xavier are the biggest competition then we have to like our chances. The way he’s changed his body and has started to play through the change he’s made he’s got NBA upside down the road. I think KU with Hudy and its history with bigs is the perfect spot for him. There might even be a starting spot for grabs when he gets here…
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@JayHawkFanToo Ahhh…McCormack’s relationship with the OSU assistant is big.
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@JayHawkFanToo How about you tell me if KU is NOT a major player tell me why if he isn’t that interested in the University why is he making two visits for one. - -You said he was close for the un- official – AND? - - he comes here on this un official , if he is not that interested , if he is not serious - -why come back on an official? - - If he didn’t see anything that interested - -if he doesn’t like what the staff had to say - - if he didn’t like the environment - the campus - - the facilities - -why waste an official visit on a school that is not that serious of player in your recruitment? - - Wouldn’t you as a recruit want to use your officials for schools that you were seriously considering? - -Would you just want to waste one of your officials when you knew there was no way or little chance of committing there? - - I know if I were a recruit - -I’m taking my officials to schools that I’m interested in , and have a true chance of landing me. - -McCormack is not the only player that has had a friend - - had a previous Coach or connection that is now at another school and that recruit not end up there because they were there.
I’m going to a School because of a lot of other things other then just a friend being there or previous Coach or whatever. I’m going to a school that I feel gives me the best chance to help me improve my skills - develop me to advance to the next level. I’m going to a school for exposure, tradition, and OTHER things he mentioned. - not because of some guy that use to Coach me or a friend. - -McCormack feels really good about our staff - -loves our history of the game -Ya I think your under estimating KU and over estimating a former Coach or whoever the hell this guy is. To say we are insinuate KU isn’t a major player with him - is just way off base - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BeddieKU23 said:
McCormack is coming back for late night not even a month after unofficially visiting here. I think KU has been able to get in his ear about Doke’s pending NBA decision and the opportunity for him here. He’s an Adidas kid as well which helps.
Steve Smith, his coach for Oak Hill said he enjoyed his unoffical here and that NC St & Xavier were also schools he was considering with Duke/UCLA also trying to get visits (if he makes it that far). This was his quote " I don’t know if he’ll go past September, he’s getting kind of antsy and I think he likes a couple schools."
If NC St & Xavier are the biggest competition then we have to like our chances. The way he’s changed his body and has started to play through the change he’s made he’s got NBA upside down the road. I think KU with Hudy and its history with bigs is the perfect spot for him. There might even be a starting spot for grabs when he gets here…
Agree. He’d also be a good fit at KU which seems important to him.
Also it’s not IMG or Brewster but current staff at KU seems to have an ok relationship with Oak Hill.
