Whiff City
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@BShark yea I’m not worried I guess is my point. We don’t need starters. We sure could use them. But our starting group next year looks great and everyone from that lineup minus Vick will probably be back the following season as well.
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@Kcmatt7 If Vick is gone I think 3 starters would need to be signed for KU to be really good again.
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@BShark Yea I suppose. We’ve seen Bill do well with less… It is always funny because there are even times that I want to question him, and then he puts up another 30 win season.
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@Kcmatt7 Right. Should we ever really worry? Bill Self is our coach. We’ll be good. And heck, in a weird season where we might lose (God forbid) nine or ten games and (God forbid again) where don’t win the big 12, that might be the magical national title run as a 5 seed.
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If Vick is back he at least provides some scoring punch. A line-up of Moore, Garrett, Cunliffe or KJ, Dedric and De Sousa would struggle to score. Dedric the only proven scorer among them. Spacing nightmare. Of course I’m probably worrying about nothing but I’m interested to see who Self ends up with.
We need actual games to start this season already.
@HighEliteMajor I’d take that. Self probably would too.
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RockkChalkk said:
I have some concerns about the recent developments too. Things are heating up for sure. Definitely some plusses and minuses.
Losing Zion G to ISU stinks, was hoping he would make it to late night. Great signing by them not letting him off campus without the commit.
Zion W coming to late night is big big big. Would be awesome to land him. He will be a superstar.
David McCormack - i think KU is in a good spot, sounds like a decision might be nearing. This would solitify the post if he picked KU.
The most important piece in my opinion is Dotson. We need guards badly, real badly. He would be a cornerstone on the team. The guy is a stud and reminds me of Frank how he gets into the lane at will. I havent seen anything to suggest he is Florida bound, he hasnt even made it to his visit yet. Not sure where that came from but makes me nervous nonetheless.
Seeing Grimes go to Kentucky when he was supposed to be at KU is concerning for sure. As previously pointed out, the KU visit was unofficial so if there is any saving grace to hold onto that might be it.
I have wondered, in Dotson’s comments he said Self told him he is the best PG in the country, what did Grimes think of that? On the same token, Grimes just said Self told him he is their top priority right now. What does Dotson and Zion think about that? I hope everybody is mature enough to understand that there is some salesmanship going on here. I just hope that it doesnt make it seem like Self isnt a straight shooter. Dont want him to lose credibility over these various comments.
We might be hurt by the fact that we have Charlie at PG and perhaps Florida does not have that type of competition at PG? Also, you wonder how the guys that will be back for sure next year feel about Grimes saying that Self led him to believe that he could be “the man”. But that is the environment when you go after the top guys in the country.
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Self is certainly catering to what guys want to hear and I think that’s a positive step with how things are today in the recruiting world. I don’t blame him for putting that kind of talk out there. Grimes has the talent to be a lead scorer type as a freshman given what is leaving after this year. If I’m a recruit and a HOF coach is saying “hey your good enough to be our best player next year” that would certainly raise my interest in going there. But I’m not these 17-18 year old kids that take so many other things into consideration.
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@BShark Bill could easily take the page out of the 38-1 UK team though. GO BIG. Like just go really big, make the game super clunky, and then run as hard as you can in transition. Win games 70 to 60 where half of the points are offensive rebounds and the other half are from turnovers. Other teams don’t get second chance points because our lineup of 4 guys who can all get 10 rebounds any given night are crashing the boards.
It would be ugly to watch. But I think that team would win a lot of games still.
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Maybe I’m in the minority but I am scared about next years team. We picked up 3 transfers so we know Self is aware of the fact that a lot of talent is likely leaving. Anytime a team is faced with possibly replacing its top 6 players there is going to be concern. Of course we happen to have a coach that is well versed in roster turnover and cooking a whole new batch of players is a strength of his. But this could be the biggest reload in some time and that cannot be overlooked. We should have nothing to worry about given Self’s track record but every coach eventually gets into a situation that becomes hard to overcome and this certainly looks like one of those situations right now.
When games start its going to be important to see how ready Garrett is after showing promise in Italy. He could be the guy we need to make the biggest leap depending on how things play out.
I think KJ is a little better then I might have thought, his brother certainly has the bigger reputation but we should get a ton of production/value from both. I just hope Dedric gets his head on straight and takes advantage of the situation he’s now in because he certainly has the potential to be Big 12 POY and a All-American candidate.
I think Moore would be a perfect backup to an elite level recruit (insert Dotson). I’m just not sold on him being the type of player we need with this group. I think Moore will be better in years 2 & 3 at KU then just expecting him to be the type of guard KU has gotten used to having on the floor. I would love for him to change my mind though.
Beyond that there is doubt Vick & Doke will be back. Either of the 2 coming back would be huge and if both decided to return then KU definitely has the foundation for another championship level squad. But losing both man that’s tough.
I don’t care how people spin it this team absolutely needs recruits such as Dotson, Grimes & Zion to keep up. That’s why Self has a chance with all 3 of them because the exodus of talent leaving is so great. Normally we get 1-2 really good recruits and settle for guys that are willing to play behind more established veterans. The wrinkle this year is we added 3 starter level transfers, not just rotation pieces. Self has to add elite level pieces, its not a “we’re fine” without them situation
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@BeddieKU23 I’d be worried if we hadn’t picked up the transfers. But that is not the case. Dedric is All-American level good. Moore proved himself in a P5 conference as a very solid PG.
Those two things can take a team a long ways.
If Doke, Preston and/or Vick are back that adds another scorer. Garrett looks like he is going to be significantly better than I thought. Him in his So. year will be a legit NBA prospect.
Throw in the combination at the 4 of De Sousa, Lightfoot and KJ and you can play anyone’s style of game or create mismatches at that position.
That team would have enough to be a top 10 team. Maybe not a NC team, but a top 10. When you throw in a guy like Zion that changes the team all by himself. If we were to land two of the 3, i think we would be favorites to win it all. If we landed all 3 I would think that we would be heavy favorites.
But putting out a top 10 team after losing all 5 starters is amazing. Nobody else does that consistently. Not UK, not Duke, nobody but Bill.
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According to the most recent Crystal Ball predictions which you can take them or leave them, here are the players in the top 50 KU is in the run…
- #26 Devon Dotson - KU-81%, Florida 19%
- #17 Quentin Grimes - KU - 100%
- #2 Zion Williamson - KU 43%, UK - 29%, Duke 14%, UNC - 7%
- #21 Emmitt Williams 0 Oregon, 67%, KU - 17%, Florida - 17%
- #49 Jalen Carey - Syracuse 71%, KU -14%
I would say KU is in great shape with Grimes and Dotson and good shape with Zion; nothing to be alarmed at this point.
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I have no disagreement with your optimistic approach to what the roster may look like next year. My concern for next year isn’t the sky is falling, I’m closer to the status quo then the ledge.
I just have concerns about replacing a starting 5 and the detail that goes with that. I also think KU could land better talent at positions it normally has NBA talent. All 3 transfers come with limitations in some way. Dedric would be in the NBA if he didn’t but that’s beside the point. Moore is always going to be playing against players bigger then him and must become a more efficient shooter/facilitator. KJ has to establish what position he’s going to play and continue to improve his shooting.
If Self is able to land Zion and Grimes then I would have very little concern going forward. Both of them have reputations that speak for themselves. Dotson is a cherry on top kind of recruit for KU with Moore in the fold. I thought he proved all summer he was every bit as good as any PG in the class. Big Dave McCormack would give KU great size to pair in the post with De Sousa and the Lawsons/Lightfoot. I also think he’s starting to realize how good he could be after reshaping his body and learning how to play to his strengths. Hopefully any concern I have is alleviated as we find out who’s joining and who ends up leaving.
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KU does not appear to be a likely destination for McCormack with OSU, Duke and Georgia being the candidates.
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KU still rocking a 0% on Silvio De Sousa’s crystal ball.
KU, Xavier and NC State are the players with McCormack with that caveat that if Duke ever amped it up they’d be in strong contention.
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Speaking of Silvio, lol
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@JayHawkFanToo Oh sorry to say but I think KU is a MAJOR player for McCormack - just off the basis of him visiting KU on his own dime and then returning for an official on late night.
On top if you read what he had to say about the University overall, about KU being the foundatation, the founder of Basketball, how is looking at more then just the game, how he brought up different aspects about KU oh ya I think we are a MAJOR player for him no doubt. him talking about Naismith sorry but I think I’m spot on with this - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Having Larry hand you players sure isn’t a bad thing…
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@JayHawkFanToo I am curious why you say that? Duke …OK…but the others?
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He eliminated Georgetown in his last cut down.
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I’m not saying the crystal ball is completely irrelevant, but it’s not the whole picture.
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@jayballer54 Agree-- in fact, even if those are the words that were uttered, we don’t know that it was Self vs. someone else on the staff…
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@BShark Agree with you on this 1000000000% bud. - I am starting to laugh at these dam CB"s more and more all the time - -I don’t think they know anymore then throwing at a dart board. - -just like you pointed out remember Ayton? - now even though it’s not final look at Dotson. - -just couldn’t agree more. - - McCormack we are heavlly involved and good shape with. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Recruits always say good things about programs they visit, particularly if they plan to take an all expense paid official visit in the near future.
If you were a high end recruit, wouldn’t you take all the allowed offcial visit where they treat you like royalty and send you home with some cool school gear to boot? I know I would.
McCormack is friends with OSU assistant coach David Kontaxis who has worked seven years with AAU programs in the Washington, D.C. area, including McCormack’s Team Loaded. McCormack was on an unofficial visit to OSU and apparently made a side trip to Lawrence although he is expected to make an offcial visit later on.
I am not saying that KU is not in play but if you take the comments of recruits after visit as the key, we would have gotten a heck of a lot more top players that visited and had glowing comments about KU. Wouldn’t you agree?
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m not taking his remarks as a key - -I’ll will say this I’ll predict right here - -right now he WILL NOT land at Oklahoma State. - -If not KU then he will land at Duke, they have been in on him for quite some time - No Oklahoma State commit here, mark it own. - - As we pretty well knew ya Oklahoma St right now is his leader in the CB - - And? - -That CB crap is less and less credible all the time, we know that from personal experiences, it’s a crap shoot with the analysts, like taking a dart and throwing at a dart board - -Again mark it down - it will not happen for Okla St with this kid. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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So, if you are not using his comments as the main reason, why do you think KU is in? The unofficial visit? He has made 9 unofficial visits so far.
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McCormack is coming back for late night not even a month after unofficially visiting here. I think KU has been able to get in his ear about Doke’s pending NBA decision and the opportunity for him here. He’s an Adidas kid as well which helps.
Steve Smith, his coach for Oak Hill said he enjoyed his unoffical here and that NC St & Xavier were also schools he was considering with Duke/UCLA also trying to get visits (if he makes it that far). This was his quote " I don’t know if he’ll go past September, he’s getting kind of antsy and I think he likes a couple schools."
If NC St & Xavier are the biggest competition then we have to like our chances. The way he’s changed his body and has started to play through the change he’s made he’s got NBA upside down the road. I think KU with Hudy and its history with bigs is the perfect spot for him. There might even be a starting spot for grabs when he gets here…
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@JayHawkFanToo Ahhh…McCormack’s relationship with the OSU assistant is big.
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@JayHawkFanToo How about you tell me if KU is NOT a major player tell me why if he isn’t that interested in the University why is he making two visits for one. - -You said he was close for the un- official – AND? - - he comes here on this un official , if he is not that interested , if he is not serious - -why come back on an official? - - If he didn’t see anything that interested - -if he doesn’t like what the staff had to say - - if he didn’t like the environment - the campus - - the facilities - -why waste an official visit on a school that is not that serious of player in your recruitment? - - Wouldn’t you as a recruit want to use your officials for schools that you were seriously considering? - -Would you just want to waste one of your officials when you knew there was no way or little chance of committing there? - - I know if I were a recruit - -I’m taking my officials to schools that I’m interested in , and have a true chance of landing me. - -McCormack is not the only player that has had a friend - - had a previous Coach or connection that is now at another school and that recruit not end up there because they were there.
I’m going to a School because of a lot of other things other then just a friend being there or previous Coach or whatever. I’m going to a school that I feel gives me the best chance to help me improve my skills - develop me to advance to the next level. I’m going to a school for exposure, tradition, and OTHER things he mentioned. - not because of some guy that use to Coach me or a friend. - -McCormack feels really good about our staff - -loves our history of the game -Ya I think your under estimating KU and over estimating a former Coach or whoever the hell this guy is. To say we are insinuate KU isn’t a major player with him - is just way off base - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BeddieKU23 said:
McCormack is coming back for late night not even a month after unofficially visiting here. I think KU has been able to get in his ear about Doke’s pending NBA decision and the opportunity for him here. He’s an Adidas kid as well which helps.
Steve Smith, his coach for Oak Hill said he enjoyed his unoffical here and that NC St & Xavier were also schools he was considering with Duke/UCLA also trying to get visits (if he makes it that far). This was his quote " I don’t know if he’ll go past September, he’s getting kind of antsy and I think he likes a couple schools."
If NC St & Xavier are the biggest competition then we have to like our chances. The way he’s changed his body and has started to play through the change he’s made he’s got NBA upside down the road. I think KU with Hudy and its history with bigs is the perfect spot for him. There might even be a starting spot for grabs when he gets here…
Agree. He’d also be a good fit at KU which seems important to him.
Also it’s not IMG or Brewster but current staff at KU seems to have an ok relationship with Oak Hill.
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That’s another thing I didn’t mention was Oak Hill. We got Preston last year from there and while it sounds like Billy won’t be here when David would be it doesn’t hurt to have a connection to one of the premiere HS teams in the country.
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I haven’t seen McCormack mention Oklahoma St since the summer. It doesn’t sound like they are getting one of his official visits either. So unless something changes it sounds like them hiring his AAU coach didn’t end up having a big effect on what he’s going to do. The CB’s will change and they could go KU’s way after his official…
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Well read where we landed on a recruits final five once again. Doesn’t really amount to a lot I don’t think but Louis King announced final five of: - - Oregon , NC State , Seton Hall , KU , & Purdue.
Seems like a pretty solid at this point to Oregon, not really thinking much chance here but you never know stranger things have happened. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Grimes has cut Arizona from consideration… that’s huge
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Honestly, not super high on Louis King. He’s not a great athlete, his handle is probably roughly average and he’s an above average but not elite shooter. I am just not sure how he transitions to a collegiate wing at KU and is anything more than Andrew White. Maybe others have a different take, but I just don’t see it.
This class is top heavy, but light on depth, so he could get ranked top 25 or top 30, but really be more like a 40-60 guy. For comparison’s sake, in 2016, the highest a player rated lower than 90 was ranked in ESPN’s 100 was 29th. In 2017, an 89 got you ranked 31st. In 2015, 2014 and 2013 it went 20, 30 and 23.
A deep class takes players rated above 90 to about 30. Anything less than that, the class lacks depth. The first player rated less than 90 is at 25. But what is even more telling is that this class only has 4 guys rated 95 or higher. There aren’t really any truly elite prospects, and there’s not a lot of depth. 2018 is going to be a year where not a lot of freshmen arrive on campus ready to contribute because there just aren’t any elite level guys.
I think Self has seen that possibility and has planned for it with the Lawson brothers, Charlie Moore and Sam Cunliffe, all of whom are likely to be more ready to contribute than any prospect outside the top 12-15 in the 2018 class. Throw in Marcus Garrett and you have a solid starting five whether Vick returns or not.
Self may have done it again - we just don’t know it yet.
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@BeddieKU23 Soooo now what? - -that what leaves KU & ? down to 2 now right?
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@justanotherfan ya I really haven’t hear a lot of super positive reviews on him either. - Not a lot of vibes ya know what I mean? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Agree to an extent on King. He’s kind of a jack of all trades type wing. He’s actually the type I would expect to see land at Villanova. I think he’s an excellent catch and shoot type, rebounder and defender. Those traits fit at KU but if we are going to keep recruiting the uber elite wings maybe he isn’t the best fit in that light.
I think the most interesting part of King’s recruitment has been that Calipari turned him down after he basically begged them for an offer this summer. King played for Cal during Team USA ball and still didn’t impress Cal enough to get him that offer. That could be because King figures to be a multi-year player in College at a position that is routinely producing OAD types every season.
I think King’s ranking will even out a bit more across the platforms and he’ll end up in that 20’s to low 30’s range. It seems if Oregon has his attention and if he doesn’t land there I’m not sure where he’d go unless KU was out of the Zion race and had a chance to get him in the spring…
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@BeddieKU23 Wait – Grimes didn’t have Arizona in his final 4. - -He is down to Ku , Kentucky , Marquette & Texas - – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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He’s really down to 1 school but these kids have to play it out
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Just read where Devon’s dad said their in home visit with Coach Self and Howard went great last night. Siad lots of questions asked like about KU academics - - - KU support staff- - - to where they will live- - - what will they eat - - - and How closely they will be monitored.
According to Dotson father Dana - - -says they like what they heard.Said that see hi coming in and being their starting PG from day 1. - -says how they stressed that over and over.
The ONE thing that needs to be brought out is though 1st is that it is NOT a promise , 2ndly nor is it a guarantee - -What they told Dana is They Believe. that is what they think.
Dana said visit went great, Said KU - -Coach Self talked about why KU is the best fit for Devon, talked a lot about the vison for Devon what is and should be important for Devon and how KU fits those wants. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I did not say KU is not in play, I just said that he does not seem to THE program in play at this time.
You talk about wasting an offcial visit…well, once he makes all five offcial visits will you said he wasted the four other official visits? I think not. Remember, he made 9 unofficial visits on his own dime.
I know the crystal ball is not the be all, end all of recruiting predictions; however, many of the raters (obviously not all) are well informed and competent analysts that have a lot more inside information than we do. You can take the individual prediction any way you want based on your opinion of the rater but, when you look at the overall trend, in most cases is not that bad and at this time KU dose not seem to be ahead of the other schools.
Again, I am not saying KU is not in play, obviously it is since he has scheduled an offcial visit but that is just an indicator that KU is in play, that is all. Do you know how many top players have taken offcial visit to KU and signed with other programs? It happens, it’s the nature of the process.
As I said before, the only sure prospect is the one that has signed the LOI.
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Yes, AAU coaches can be a huge factor. Remember Beasley and Walker, two top players that would have never considered KSU ended up there because of their relationship with Delonte Hill in the AAU circuit.
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@JayHawkFanToo No he won’t of wasted ANY of his five officials - -as they are his Officials. and with them being officials they are schools that are in serious contention, and as far as CB’s are concerned I think a lot of people are starting to see how much weight they in reality hold - - -not much, too many cases of recruits being seen as CB leaders for a certain school and end up somewhere else.
Like many many others other then myself on other sites have said a lot of times with these analysts if they see one analyst make a prediction and they think this guy might have a little more info - -then they jump the train goin off his prediction whether they believe it or not -educated guess - that’s it. - -but anyways we will see where he lands but I’ll stick with my prediction - -he WILL NOT end up at Oklahoma St, a lot better chance of Duke as they have been on him for quite awhile. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Let me turn your own question back to you, that you ask me. – . You asked me if I’m not using the comments as the main reason I see KU as being a major player, then is it the un-official visit? You say he has had 9 un-official so far.
So let me turn it around right back to you. If your not just using the CB’S as the main reason that you see KU as being that school that is NOT the program in play at this time- -then what is the reason you don’t see KU as the Program in play at this time? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Just checkin’ in. But I definitely WILL be coming to KU. Big Davy Mac and Z-Will will also be joining me.
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Just read Grimes dates for his officials. - -Texas, Sept 22nd. - - Kentucky , Sept 29th - - KU , Oct 13 - -& Marquette , Oct 20th
We shall see what happens. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If we can’t land a legacy, who we offered and were all over for an entire YEAR before UK, who TF can we land?
Grimes is coming here. We have visited him nearly 10 times. We were the 3rd school to offer him. We have put the time and effort in. We have done all of the right things. If we lost him to UK, I just don’t see how there couldn’t be something dirty going on. This would be the last straw for me. I couldn’t NOT believe that Nike, Adidas and agents 100% dictate where most top 25 kids go.
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You keep misquoting me even when I specifically said in two separate posts…I am not saying KU is not in play.
KU is very much in play but based on what I have read to date it is not the leader, OSU is by virtue of the relationship he has with the assistant coach there that was his AAU coach.
For the third time, I am not saying KU is not in play…
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How are they the leader if there is no official visit scheduled to OSU at this point
