2018 Recruiting Thread
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Bingo.
Realistically, the only way we see a freshmen start next season is if we land Romeo Langford or MAYBE Grimes. I’m not even sold on him being a major contributor in his first season if he comes.
We don’t have a 2nd PG. But really that is it on the perimeter. Vick and Garrett are exactly what you want at the 2.
So really the only room we have is for a PG ranked around the 70s to come here and play 8-10 mpg. IF we can even talk one into doing that. We haven’t been able to lately so I’m not even sold on that.
Now if Vick leaves, it really opens the door for PT. Otherwise, I’m not going to assume we land any guards inside the top 50. Not even one whose mom was an alum…
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BeddieKU23 Who leaves the program if that happens? A back up PG is the only real need for 2018 at this point as far as the back court goes. Moore, Vick, Garrett, and Cunliffe are all going to be around. There’s also KJ Lawson as an option at the 3 depending on recruiting.
Where’s the room for 3 more guards in 2018? There’s no way Moore, Cunliffe, or Lawson leave because they aren’t graduate transfer eligible yet and would you really want to lose Garrett after one year? Also, what guard recruits of the ones being mentioned would even want to come here to likely sit in the bench in 2018?
Do you think Self is after all these guards for the hell of it?
I believe we’ve already discussed that Self thinks he’s losing up to 6 players from this years team. 4 of them could be perimeter players. We have a lot of wings and 1 known ball handler after this year. Sounds like we have some openings
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Grimes would start, especially if Vick goes. Need someone to get buckets/make shots. Actually this is why I’m a huge proponent of adding Carey or Locke. Not sold on Cunliffe, KJ or Garrett as great scorers. Cunliffe and KJ are chuckers and while I do actually believe Garrett can be efficient, a great team player and a distributor/creator, he doesn’t have a super great shot.
The 2nd starting guard spot is absolutely available and being sold to recruits, mainly Grimes.
I don’t think Vick and Garrett are what Self wants at the two anymore. I think he wants another player capable of actually dribbling and running the offense. An actual pg or cg if possible.
He’s after them for the halibut, actually.
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Staff wants two guards minimum, this is known information.
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@BeddieKU23 It appears Grimes is who Self covets most because he can play the 1 and 2 and back up those spots in 2018 and slide into the starting line up next to Moore and Garrett in 2019.
Vick is the question mark and why Self is staying some of these guys. Don’t expect any guards that are early commits to commit to KU other than Grimes because of Vick’s status. If it becomes obvious that Vick is staying, expect KU to back off any guard who isn’t a long term project in 2018 because of the lack of PT that will be available in 2018.
There’s no reason why Vick should leave this year based on what his anticipated role in 2018 will be, but you never know and Self is preparing for that possibility which means keeping in contact with some 2018 guards.
Self is just preparing for the worst case scenario in terms of players leaving, could be as high as 7 if we’re honest, Newman and Azubuike are assumed gone and Vick and Preston have been mentioned as possible early exits. Self is just preparing for the maximum so he doesn’t have a repeat of 2011 when he failed to prepare for the possibility of the Morris twins leaving early and he had to scramble to get some guys then.
All Self is doing is due diligence on targeting players right now to prepare for the possibility of 6 or 7 leaving when the reality is probably only 4 or 5 are gone all that’s available for 2018 is back up minutes at PG and the front court and even front court minutes are questionable to be available.
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@BShark Garrett is a combo. The New player video that was made by KU has him as a PG.
The only way a starting spot is available in the back court in 2018 is if Vick leaves, otherwise it’s going to be Moore, Vick, and Garrett starting.
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I don’t see Garrett starting.
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Who we are after, what it looks like, who we would like to have and what would be a realistic signing are all be completely different things. How are we going to split time with 4 guys at one position? If KJ, Cunliffe, Garrett and Vick are all back, those guys are all playing. KJ and Vick will start that season at the 2 and 3 because those two can straight up play D. Garrett will sub the 2 and Cunliffe with sub the 3.
I realize Self likes and has had success with starting two PGs. And of course if he can land one of these guys he is going to. But the obvious answer is that absolutely 100% Bill recruits guys just for the Hell of it. Throw out a line and see if you get a bite. You are sitting really well with a top 10 starting 5, anything you can land right now makes you NC level good. The fact of the matter is, most of these kids can go start somewhere else and play 30 mpg without competition. We aren’t selling 30mpg to anybody right now except (Romeo Langford who is a bonafide stud) that isn’t a post player.
Just think of the guys Bill visited with and wasted time recruiting that we knew weren’t coming to KU.
You guys think that it is so rigid at the guard position:
- PG - Moore
- SG/CG - Nobody
- SF - Vick/KJ/Garrett/Cunliffe
- PF - Dedric/Lightfoot
- C - ???
When in reality it is more like this:
- PG - Moore/Garrett or Freshman
- SG/CG - Vick/Garrett/Freshman
- SF - Vick/Lawson/Cunliffe/Garrett
- PF - Lawson/Lawson/Lightfoot
- C - Lawson/???
I can see how when you fill in the positions your way, it looks scary. But when I fill it out, I only see a glaring need at backup PG and C. Backup PG is going to be a guy ranked in the 70ish range probably. You aren’t selling anyone else on 10 mpg. But you throw out the line in on some big names just in case someone falls in love with everything else KU has to offer.
What I’m wondering is why in the hell are we not in on all of the elite post players? Does Coach feel that good about Doke and Preston coming back for another season? If he does, then I’d understand. We may very well lose 4 guards, but we also could easily lose 2 posts leaving us with Lightfoot and Lawson. That isn’t comforting in the slightest. Much less comforting than who is going to play backup PG.
Is Grimes actually enough of a creator to beat out 2nd and 3rd year guys? I sure haven’t seen anything from him to make me think that. And I see plenty of scoring on that team.
- Moore - 12 PPG
- D. Lawson - 20 PPG
- K. Lawson - 12 PPG
- Cunliffe - 10 PPG
- Vick 10 PPG
That is 64 points and I’m probably low-balling a couple of guys. That doesn’t include what Garrett or Lightfoot would bring off the bench or a 3rd post player. Fwiw, Lightfoot would put up another 7 ppg according to his PER 40 and adjusted down to 30 minutes. So 71 points with Garrett and a 3rd big tbd and probably the best defensive team HCBS would have in a while with all the length 2-5.
I’m trying to see it your way, but unless Vick goes this team is pretty much stacked full at the 2,3 and 4 spots. Unless you also think HCBS is interested in continuing the 4-out look which he has said he is not interested in doing.
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@Kcmatt7 KJ is not necessarily starting at the 3 in 2018. I see him playing more of a stretch 4 role next year because it’s been very quiet in recruiting as far as post players go for KU. I think Self is viewing KJ similarly to how he used Jackson last year because KJ can guard 1-4 and play on the perimeter and create match up issues like Jackson did. I’m not saying KJ is as good as Jackson, but with what’s returning in 2018, KJ as a stretch 4 is a logical personnel move, especially is the staff is determined to sign 2 guards this year which would put them at 9 guards and wings for 2018 and that equals a lot of people not playing. Playing KJ as a stretch 4 opens up some garbage minutes while easing some potential front court depth issues.
I’ll also say that center is not an urgent need either, at least as far as a starter goes. Dedric is a beast in the low post and KU would be just fine in 2018 with him anchoring the low post with Preston, KJ, or Lightfoot next to him at the other forward spot. KU has had plenty of seasons without a starting center and been just fine. D-Jax was a 4, Markeiff was a 4, T-Rob was a 4, Tarik Black was a 4. KU has had plenty of 4’s anchor the low post over the years and Dedric Lawson down low won’t be any different.
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Now this we agree on, I think KJ is better suited as a utility player/stretch 4 than a traditional Self 3.
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@BeddieKU23 and @BShark I agree with @Kcmatt7 and think you two are being way too rigid on what position guys can play.
Here’s what I see and why I think back up PG is the only real need in the back court.
Charlie Moore: 1
Marcus Garrett: 1-3
Lagerald Vick: 2-3
Sam Cunliffe: 3
KJ Lawson: 3-Stretch 4
Moore is the only natural PG for 2018 as Garrett can handle the ball, but is probably more suited to an off ball role playing next to a PG.
This is why Grimes is the top target. He can play the 1 or 2 and fills that glaring hole at the back up PG role that KU needs for 2018.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 agreed. Is there even a decent chance we get Grimes? Seems like landing some of the top recruits to fill “needs” has not always been a for sure thing.
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Reid and Quinerly visiting on the 23rd of September.
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@HawkChamp KU appears to be a strong favorite for Grimes at this point.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BeddieKU23 and @BShark I agree with @Kcmatt7 and think you two are being way too rigid on what position guys can play.
Here’s what I see and why I think back up PG is the only real need in the back court.
Charlie Moore: 1
Marcus Garrett: 1-3
Lagerald Vick: 2-3
Sam Cunliffe: 3
KJ Lawson: 3-Stretch 4
Moore is the only natural PG for 2018 as Garrett can handle the ball, but is probably more suited to an off ball role playing next to a PG.
This is why Grimes is the top target. He can play the 1 or 2 and fills that glaring hole at the back up PG role that KU needs for 2018.
I disagree which is fine. We’ll certainly find out this fall what’s going to happen
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KU was front and center for Devon Dotson last night.
Meyer was tweeting some stuff about Dotson saying he’s a clear 5 star prospect. Says he’s unselfish and defends. Surprised UNC wasn’t “all in” for him.
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Self watching Dotson again
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@REHawk Svi scores 18 in loss
Kansas senior guard Svi Mykhailiuk scored 18 points on 6-of-18 shooting and grabbed nine rebounds in Team Ukraine’s 98-63 loss to Serbia on Wednesday at the FIBA Under 20 European Championships in Crete.
The 6-foot-8 Mykhailiuk, who was 3 of 11 on three-pointers, committed eight turnovers against two assists in 34 minutes.
Team Ukraine fell to 1-3 and dropped into the consolation bracket, which will determine places 9 through 16. It will meet Czech Republic on Thursday.
Mykhailiuk has had scoring outputs of 16 points in a loss to Israel, 26 points in a win over Latvia and 25 points in a loss to Lithuania.
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Garret is tall for a PG but so was Magic and it worked out well for him. Keep in mind that Garret was POY in Texas while playing PG; he is a much better PG than he is given credit although I agree that he might be better suited as SG or even SF.
Also, Center and PF are now merging into one position and I really don’t have a problem having one or two PFs down low instead of the so called Center…it is just semantics.
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@JayHawkFanToo heard he was a good defender, hope that’s right! Will earn him time.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@JayHawkFanToo heard he was a good defender, hope that’s right! Will earn him time.
Yep. If you hope to earn playing time for Coach Self, you better play defense…
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@JayHawkFanToo I don’t disagree that Garrett is a good enough PG to run the show in a pinch, I just don’t see the need for him too barring injuries. Graham and Newman will do the majority of the lead guard stuff this year with Garrett as their primary back up. With both likely gone next year, Charlie Moore becomes the lead guard and Marcus Garrett likely slides I to the starting line up as the off ball guard. Factor in a potential PG recruit in 2018 and Markese Jacobs already signed for 2019 and KU appears to have the lead guard situation on lock down through the 2022-23 seasons unless Jacobs exceeds expectations and leaves early.
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Can someone please explain what is meant by a “natural” point guard? Is it personality? Size? Dribbling and passing are talents any good player can develop, and shooting doesn’t seem to be determinative since PGs sometimes score big but not always. Is there an innate quality people are referring to?
Or is it just a wrongly labelled way of saying someone is really good at it?
Natural = instinctive? Natural = talented? Natural = developed skill set (i.e., not natural). Which is it?
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@mayjay Instincts are a big part of along with natural skill. By natural skill, I mean what somebody is good at without working at that skill to develop and refine. Some players are naturally gifted dribblers, some are naturally great passers, and so on.
Landed Lucas for example. He is naturally a very stone handed player as in he bobbled a lot of passes and rebounds in his career. Other players have naturally soft hands that could reign in the most difficult passes and rebounds with ease.
PG’s do tend to be the shortest guy on the team because rmthe PG us going to have the ball in his hands the most and less room there is between a player’s hand and the floor, the lower the odds of a defender being able to time a dribble and steal the ball.
James Harden was essentially the Rockets PG last year and led the league in assists because if his vision and passing ability. He was also among the league leaders in turnovers because he got his pocket picked so to speak a lot last year because he’s 6-6 and was often guarded by guys several inches shorter.
Natural ability is also why Frank Mason was/is considered a a great scorer. His natural instinct with the ball is to drive to the rim and create contact. If I’m comparing Frank Mason on offense to anybody in the NBA, it’s James Harden because they do a lot of the same things with the ball I their hands and have a lot of the same instincts.
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Natural PG is a guy that has the natural instincts, feel and overall propensity to play the position.
For instance, watch guys like Magic Johnson or Chris Paul. They do more than just understanding and being able to dribble, pass, etc. They understand where people need to be, and where they need to get the ball in order to score most efficiently. They know how to manipulate a defense with a dribble, or a jabstep, or a fake, in order to create a window to pass into or a lane to cut on. That’s what natural PGs do.
Many young PGs are just kids that grow up with the ball in their hands because they are gifted scorers. They don’t know how to move the defense to allow them to get easy shots for others. Natural PGs are guys that can get other guys to run the floor because guys know they will get the ball if they run with them.
It’s a skill thing as much as an understanding thing, maybe even understanding moreso than skill (with the understanding that a minimum threshold of skill has to be present).
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Let’s go through a couple of the schools.
A couple of the schools? Kansas, Arizona, Texas, and Baylor are the ones that are on me really hard right now.
What’s been Kansas’ message so far as to why you’d be a good fit for them?
Definitely I can play two or more positions on the court. I can play the one, the two, it really doesn’t matter- I can come in with any big guard and score right away and play right away.
And be that combo type of guard that they’re looking for…
Yeah.
Baylor?
Baylor, they really want me to come in and play right away and be an overall leader in my size and really just every school is saying I can play the one or two or maybe the three.
And Arizona?
Yeah, they don’t really have a form point guard, like he said, a bigger point guard, and be a little bit better than previous point guards that they’ve had and things like that.
And finally, Texas?
I know Texas. A guy like Shaka Smart, I like the way he calls me every now and then- he’s not overbearing on me. So, he keeps it really good and professional.
Is that the approach you like?
Yeah, because he’s real upfront. He asked me, “How do you want me to contact you?” and I said maybe once a week or twice a week and I like the way he has me with that control.
That’s good. What about your relationship with Matt Coleman?
I’ve known Matt since years ago, I have a little bit better relationship with him.
He’s definitely a different type of guard than you.
Yeah, he’s pass-first, so I like that…I don’t have to have the ball in my hands every time, so I really like that about him.
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What about fit for you? What are you going to be looking for?
A relationship with the coaching staff…definitely a relationship with them, and how they see me at that level and hopefully at the next level.
Do you need a track record of development?
That’ll play into it, but it won’t be as big as style and coaching and things like that.
What’s the plan, in terms of when you’d like to decide?
Really don’t have a plan as far as the fall or early spring.
How do you plan on announcing?
We haven’t decided any of that. We’re just trying to take our time right now.
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Malik Hall in the High Choice group on 247. MS may be a goober but generally he is at least more accurate about who KU is really targeting.
Also UCLA made a bunch of offers to KU targets like Harvey and JRE. Harvey picked up a UCLA CB pick from Slater.
Grant Sherfield has fallen off a cliff in the composite rankings.
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“It was a dream come true, all my life I have been dreaming of having a blue blood school offering me and this finally happened,” he said. “I can’t even explain how it felt, it felt great.”
Bill Self and his staff have told him what they find intriguing about his game.
“They think that I fit into their playing style and think they can develop me into being a great player,” Locke said. “They think that I can come and play right away with them losing some guards.”
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@BShark When it comes to Harvey & Robinson Earl I could give a tinker rat’s ass about UCLA offering and CB predications, I’m telling you right here and now if we really want Harvey & Robinson - -if we show any kind of even half way moderate interest - -they are ours to lose - - especially Harvey.
Harvey has been to so many games in Allen Been to late night totally in love with the School, the only way I could ever see us losing Harvey is if the Staff just totally backs off and shows the kid no love no respect and tells him there is just not a spot for him. Same pretty much same story with Earl, these two kids have had KU targeted from day one. - -Again UCLA DOES NOT scare me in the least little bit with this recruitment. - -If we do lose these local guys that have major interest in KU - -then ya we got issues with out staff and who they target. - -When you got kids with talent in your own backyard, and those kids want to come and deserve the chance - -and you let other College come in and take those kids - - you have issues, I could see if these guys were marginal players on the borderline but when they are as talented as these two are, which I feel their rankings will continue to rise, we have to land these guys period, and I feel Coach Self understands this. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Just read some tidbits from zags blog. – - - Darius Garland cut his list to six Friday and they were : Kentucky, Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt , UCLA & KU. – Said Duke , KU, Vanderbilt, & UCLA all fighting to get that first official visit.
Then my Boy Devon Dotson, we all know how I feel about him, even though I think we have slide a bit, story read he was the most impressive player at the Under Armour All American Camp this week- -needs work on his outside shot BUT was hitting from all over this week., - - - Sitting up officials with Arizona , Florida , & KU - - still has list of 8 schools, Arizona, KU , Florida, Maryland, Miami, Wake Forest, USC & Ohio State- - - looking to cut his Schools after the live period. - - - -Said about KU: KU style fits his style, said they were telling him looking for a guard to come in and lead from day 1 and they think he can be that Guard. - - -Man Would really make my knees tremble shake and Buckle if somehow we could land Dotson & Grimes both - -I mean Jumpin - -Gee - - Hossa - - Fats that would be really sweet. - -Hey doesn’t hurt to dream, we shall see. - -ROCK CHLK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’m gonna give you Garland’s real final 6.
Duke, Duke, Duke, Vanderbilt, Duke and Duke.
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@BShark I already know this, just like I’m going to give you Harvey and Robinson Earle’s - - -KU KU KU KU & KU. - - - -now we got that settled lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Well, just sitting here trying to kill time - - and amusing myself. Did some looking up from 247. Some things kind of interesting. Things I found out, like out of the top 150 recruits for 2018 - - - -1/3rd - - have already verbal committed. - - 20 out of the top 50 , - -42 out of the top 100, that’s quite a few, yet zero verbal for KU.
KU lowest ranked player they have at least shown some kind of interest in is ranked at # 84 ( Jaedon Le Dee ). - - - KU was mentioned in some shape or form by 21 kids or KU mentioned them out of the top 150 for the 2018 class. - - – - -out of the 21 - - -KU received only 6 of any kind of predictions, yes I know it’s the CB but still, only showing 6 of these kids have talk to analysts to where they are lead to believe that KU may be a really serious contender at this point.
KU has been listed in what looks like to be either the players preference of the top 5 schools considered for by the other 15 though just haven’t received any predicts.
A thing I found interesting is, we have 3 visits scheduled, yet none of the three are we considered the favorite to land any of the three. Two of the three visits are Pg’s - ( Immanuel Quickley on 9-2 - - Jahon Quinerly on 9-23 - -then a PF Nazreon Reid on 9-23 ), But yet the 4 kids that we are considered to be leading on or in a dead heat for 3 pg’s and a Pf ( Quentin Grimes, Devon Dotson, Jalen Carey, Noah Locke, & Emmit Williams we have no visits set up for yet.
A question I ask also is - -worst case scenario, Would we take Ayo Dosunmu the 6’4 Combo he really is only showing any kind of love to is Illinois and us. - -We want him? I think could be a quality 4 yr player # 29 in top 100 - - -OR would we rather have David Duke # 47 Combo - -he is really only showing interest in Providence & KU - - now both Dosunmu & Duke are showing 100% for others at this point but I think if we push those things could/would change if we really wanted. - -Holler let me know what ya think. - just bored and doing some KU investigating lol - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 watch espn
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@Crimsonorblue22 They have nothing right now - -not into the golf thing and don’t believe any base ball and know no Basketball lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 you missed team foe playing. They were up by 25 and lost
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@Crimsonorblue22 WTH - - how do you manage to do that lol? - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 ugly
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@jayballer54 you missed team foe playing. They were up by 25 and lost
ELIIIIIIJAH
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KU offered Keldon Johnson, he was in Lawrence over the weekend playing in the big AAU tourney.
He wants a UK offer and looks like he might get one soon. That will end that recruitment. Texas was the front runner
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Looks like Grimes is gonna visit KU twice… Seems optimal.
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BShark said:
Looks like Grimes is gonna visit KU twice… Seems optimal.
Gotta love MS dissing the other “insider” only to find out Bossi talked to Grimes over the weekend and got the same information from him…
I’d say split the difference and say visits once. Twice, well we’d have to feel even better about our chances at that point
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Dotson’s latest Q&A with Slater… Positives for KU.
Florida is definitely the other contender with Miami, Maryland & Arizona pushing for him as well. I think Dotson will sign in the fall.
Florida insider seems to think they have him…
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Yeah just…lol at that situation. And yeah if he visits twice…the second might be as a commit or easily seal the deal. I know he has mentioned signing late but you never know.
Florida insider lol.
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BShark said:
Yeah just…lol at that situation. And yeah if he visits twice…the second might be as a commit or easily seal the deal. I know he has mentioned signing late but you never know.
Florida insider lol.
Yeah if we lock in both visits great but until he does I just assume we’ll only get the official once other schools put pressure on him to visit etc and he runs out of time to go on his own dime. If he officials before Late Night then comes back for LN I can see that being a situation that greatly benefits getting him to sign early… I’m not Coach but that is the situation I would be pushing for
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BeddieKU23 said:
Dotson’s latest Q&A with Slater… Positives for KU.
Florida is definitely the other contender with Miami, Maryland & Arizona pushing for him as well. I think Dotson will sign in the fall.
Florida insider seems to think they have him…
Ya Since I’ve read his latest this morning, now am leaning more towards what you said previously. - - -Sounds to me like more and more this will end up coming down to a KU/Florida battle in the end run. Miami there, BUT just the way I read into things sounds like these two to me. He said he had already been on the KU campus unofficially this past Jan, and after he cuts his schools after the live period and makes his visits I just feel we make that cut & then he will make his official visit here. I understand Arizona is one of the eight, but on this one I don’t think they play as much of a factor as in others. Be nice to get him on a 2nd visit.
This has been my guy this recruiting season, liked him from the get go. He came away from KU with a pretty good impression " REALLY LOUD saying he thought his ears were about ready to fall off, Super loud, and they fans with the chants" Devon is a very strong ball handler, the article says he dominated the Under Armour camp, leading in points, and Steals. Was asked what he wanted to work on in August and he said his outside shot, & consistency. They also said that a lot of pg’s are a little soft but opponents who have played against Devon say they feel it after a game against him - - -his response is he likes to play physical - -play hard.
Of our competition for him Devon stated that Florida has been in contact with him Forever and he has formed a great relationship with the staff. – This is why really important to get that 2nd visit here. One thing I have found a little interesting with Devon, him being from Carolina that none of the Big time Schools are in his final 8 Duke, N Carolina, N C State, - - and no Kentucky either, just a little different this time for a change lol. He States Miami is stilla serious contender also still BUT again I think now it is KU/Fl battle.
So question - -when does the live period end anyways, that’s when he is cutting his list - -after that. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 He has already been to KU on his on dime back in Jan, - -and we make his list after he cuts, which I feel we will that will be his 2nd visit. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 He has already been to KU on his on dime back in Jan, - -and we make his list after he cuts, which I feel we will that will be his 2nd visit. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Are you talking about Grimes or Dotson. I was referring to Grimes in the post.
