Vick and Josh
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Welcome to Kansas. Where we call reputable news sources liars and value basketball over integrity.
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@HawkChamp
I keep thinking about their parents.
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@bskeet Technically, if the two players were identified in the police report as persons of interest as detailed in the article, there could be no libel provided the Star was not negligent in believing that the police report was genuine. Papers are allowed to report even things from confidential police files (although woebetide someone who gets held in contempt for divulging it).
If the Star said they were named in a report but omitted a finding from the report that they definitely did not do it, the Star could be guilty of what is known as a âfalse lightâ tort, which means setting out facts that portray someone negatively while knowing the conclusion to be drawn therefrom is false.
The Star seems to be on safe ground here, but I donât know about their sources. I expect the Douglas County DAâs office will be doing a pretty intense investigation, as will KU.
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@Kcmatt7 Doesnât the integrity of an investigation matter, too?
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For everyoneâs consideration, please note what Wikipedia says about the term person of interest. Read the very last sentence I bolded if nothing else.
âPerson of interestâ is a term used by U.S. law enforcement when identifying someone involved in a criminal investigation who has not been arrested or formally accused of a crime. It has no legal meaning, but refers to someone in whom the police are âinterested,â either because the person is cooperating with the investigation, may have information that would assist the investigation, or possesses certain characteristics that merit further attention.
While terms such as suspect, target, and material witness have clear and sometimes formal definitions, person of interest remains undefined by the U.S. Department of Justice⌠Person of interest is sometimes used as a euphemism for suspect, and its careless use may encourage trials by media.
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@mayjay Not really.
You realize the majority of crimes that get reported donât end up with charges being filed right? Hefty majority. Doesnât make the person accused not guilty of the crime. Just means they donât have evidence to charge them.
Most bank robbers arenât caught. Most hit and runs arenât caught. Most DV accusations get dropped. So just because our guys arenât getting charged doesnât mean they are completely innocent in all of this.
Iâm sorry that it pisses me off to see news that our players were being idiots (guilty or not they are putting themselves in situations to get in trouble and be on police reports, most of which are public record). It devalues something I care about and something I am proud to be. That diploma I busted my ass for. That I went into crazy debt for. That I worked 35+ hours a week on top of class for. The fact that I was the first generation in my family to graduate college. And that I am so proud to call myself a first generation Jayhawk after being a fan my entire life. That apparently other people donât have the same respect for that I do.
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Letâs not forget the Star has been going down the tubes faster than crap through a goose. They have to justify their existance to sell much smaller papers. They are piling on to any thread that will create hype. Smacks of desperation while âhome townâ MU is beyond putrid and mired in a long losing streak.
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From Matt Scott
If youâre blasting #kubball players - trust me when I tell you nothing is as it reads and there is a HUGE other side to the story
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Look at the pictures they are choosing. Look at how they are reporting (using that term loosely). Look at how they keep tieing togrther accusations. Muckraking 101. Trying to drive up clicks and sales to justify their dwindling ad revenue.
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This is a good candidate for locking
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.@LawrenceKS_PD says itâs not named suspect or any âpersons of interestâ involving 12/9 vandalism re: rpt. Vick & Jackson are POIâs #kubball
From John Holt (fox 4 news)
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@Kcmatt7 I am sure that I have the same level of respect for our shared education as you do. But I think my respect includes a sense that a few reported accusations covering almost 17 months are not going to destroy our alma mater, whereas hasty actions, rumors, and jumping to conclusions can destroy these young menâs lives. And I suspect someone (not the Star, with which I personally have no beef) has that in mind.
I also have respect for our system of criminal law in which I practiced, and for the fairness values underlying my condemnation of the social lynching of anyone.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@HawkChamp
I keep thinking about their parents.Keep thinking about the parents and the young lady who allegedly got hit too.
@Eric-san I donât live anywhere near KC. Fill me on the Star. I really am not aware of the Star and their biases/leanings.
@mayjay Yes, facts are great. What are the facts? 2 of our players are persons of interest in a felony. Vick hit a girl in the arm and kicked her in the face. It doesnât matter to me that he wasnât charged officially. If those are facts those are serious actions and as a father, as many of you are, I canât imagine some guy doing that to one of my daughters or sons.
@BeddieKU23 Come on man. I canât criticize the team for a report, not from TMZ but from a reputable newspaper alleges these things?
Boy weâd be having a heyday if Duke or Kentucky had been associated with all of these things!
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Iâll just say this about the KC Star ⌠on the day of the Chiefs playoff game with Pittsburgh, they run a re-hash story on Tyreek Hill with the premise of whether some have gotten past his incident with his girlfriend. They pick the most important day in many years for Chiefs fans, a home playoff game, and run a sensationalistic repeat of old news â but of course searching out interviews to further malign the guy.
The timing was ridiculous. I guess they follow ESPNâs lead.
The Kansas City Star is a rag.
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Id rather be arguing about playing time between, LL, HUnter Mickelson or C Diallo
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@mayjay If these are legit police investigations, then yes. However, not all police reports are equal. So if this is flimsy and the Star is not filtering (which is their job) then itâs sloppy at best and negligent or self-serving at worst.
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@Bwag Those were the good old days âŚ.
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@Bwag Jam Tray!
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@mayjay said:
@Bwag Jam Tray!
Him too!
Now weâre so thin on the bench we canât talk PT and rotation. Our lineup is so imbalanced even Bill Self changed strategy to 4 out 1 in.
Without these off court issues, season has been downright boring.
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@bskeet Those possibilities were covered by my post.
I actually wonder if the greater negligence here is the PD for not getting a car vandalism case closed in 2 months. It makes me wonder how it is that new witnesses have been found, if that is true.
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@Fightsongwriter I agree part of the stars motive is to generate clicks but itâs been obvious for a long time the misery based paper has a grudge with KU. FYI star we didnât make mu leave the Big 12 and become a national joke. Itâs pretty clear why tearing down KU would make them feel better about their plight.
Itâs sad because KU deserves quality coverage. After the Kentucky game I looked at the Lexington paper and there were about 8 different stories on the game, and even though they lost, the paper was nothing but respectful to their team.
As far as the legal issues all we know for sure is CB got busted for paraphernalia. Hopefully these kids, some from very difficult backgrounds, will use this as a wake up call and focus on making good decisions in the future. One thing we know for sure though is our head coach exhibits the highest standards and will get this sorted out and respond accordingly. I know I will continue to wear my KU gear with pride.
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NY Times just published an article. Not scarring KU at allâŚ
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@Kcmatt7 Here it is. Pretty balanced, but he doesnât close with the sense of doom the headline suggests. He notes the issues, says it hurts fans, as it does, but doesnât suggest all is lost, or the guys are thugs, or some other stuff.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/sports/ncaabasketball/kansas-jayhawks-baylor-bears.html
Note: if you have been reading NYT articles, you might have to clear your cookies from your browser cache to access this.
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First⌠news organizations get away with verbal murder. They always have, and hopefully, always will. I said âhopefullyâ because of the only realist alternative, that free press is silenced.
The Star is a McClatchy paper and under monster financial pressure. They are pimping out the quality of journalism just trying to stay alive.
This is the state of journalism today. Their expression of thoughts are protected by the Constitution, but their financial survival is not. A big part of what they are selling is the headlines themselves. Controversial headlines are actually more valuable today than the content in the story behind them. Controversial headlines gain more attention, harvest paid clicks, and even sells real paper newspapers. This is journalism today. Iâve been told that some stories exist only because magnetic headlines were developed FIRST, and the stories were done just to finish the sold goods (headlines).
Having said that⌠I still think there are a few old antlers on staff. They have an opportunity to âcreate newsâ and are jumping on Kansas hoping to sell more papers. You have to remember that a huge chunk of their potential customers are MU fans.
The Star has a long history of bashing Kansas. None of this is new⌠and probably little of this is actually news.
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@drgnslayr Since I havenât read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didnât that largely begin with Whitlock?
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Currently, our team is a rolling snowball going downhill. It continues to pick up more snow and grow.
This probably started with the first CB situation. After that, media looks to pin more on Kansas. Story targets pick up momentum. Once one story picks up traction, it is much easier to pick up traction on the subsequent stories.
If you donât understand what I mean⌠just think back to the Hillary Clinton email story phenomenon. Perfect example.
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@wrwlumpy I posted that time line
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@bskeet Her brother was also killed in Texas within the past couple years trying to attack & kill people in an act of domestic terrorism. Several members of this particular family, for whatever reasons, have definitely acted in anti social & sociopathic behaviors on more than a few occasions. Even the parents public statements leave much to question in their outlook of their existence in the USA. At least one family member has been terminated by an employer since that boy was shot. This is clearly a smear campaign by representatives of someone with an axe to grind, & even possibly with financial motivations. Clearly the type of people that, if you know much of their background at all, you wouldnât touch with the proverbial ten foot pole. Of course this is just one old mans opinion & certainly no malice intended
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@Kcmatt7 maybe theyâre playstation guys haha
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@Crimsonorblue22 Another timeline raised by someone on the LDJW site, checked by me in the LDJW stories and on Google Maps:
Dec 9 (Friday) 1 a.m. Braggâs altercation at 1000 block of Emery Rd, leading to charges later dropped against him.
Dec 9 (Friday) 2 a.m. Alleged car vandalism at 530 Wisconsin, some 4 to 5 blocks away.
This particular timeline is consistent with way too many possibilities. I am going to bed.
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@mayjay I donât believe the Star is behind this either but the messenger printing the copy theyâre given - i.e.: the "scoop "
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@Kcmatt7 Relax Matt This is a smear campaign that will eventually be exposed
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@Jayrawks1 Jeff Rosen? Is that kin to the stars Steve Rose
? He owns several smaller Kansas newspapers & has shortened his name. Also has had some interesting & controversial dialogue in his past. Some might describe him as a ârareâ bird Some others might say kook
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@globaljaybird so you think unidentified someone is giving them false news?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Just a gut feeling because of the continuance of the information & the ânewsâ all breaking from one source- the KC
ď¸ Sooner or later they will be forced to verify accusations & it may or may not be false at that point The damages are clearly already being accumulated & a retraction would do little except be a formality
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@TRUBLUE Uh, maybe you mistyped your name here, isnt it âBigBlueâ? Troll Alert! Still sore your KY boyz lost their poise at home in Rupp?
Go back & read your own post: Way outta place, and make no senseâŚwhat a laugher!
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@ralster I think you are wrong, check his old posts
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@mayjay said:
Since I havenât read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didnât that largely begin with Whitlock?
I believe several decades before Whitlock. My memory stinks, but I recall some negative press back in the 70s. I bet there are other posters in here that have better memories and can post about it, with clarification.
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This! They need to do what Russ Rob says.
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@HawkInMizery so you think Iâll be watching Tyler self play sat? I wish Self would ban the star guys from his interviews
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@Crimsonorblue22 man i hope not. well actually i hope so if itâs for the right reason namely that we are giving ISU the business.
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Having been around the block a few times. In situations like this, means we have a witch hunt. When you have a witch hunt, all you need to do is follow the money trail. There youâll find the answers to the questions we all have.
My guess is ??? KU is really turning around the football program, and with a national brand in basketball. KU becomes a must have for those conferences looking to expand. If this were the case ??? Then Kstate is in big trouble and the powers to be know it. I have no hard evidence so take what I say with a lot of salt. Yet I get this feeling those in power positions want KU and Kstate joined at the hip no matter how far it might drag down KU.
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@drgnslayr Whitlock hated KU with a passion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I guess Iâm just too lazy, sorry.
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Witch hunt, bullshit, and all around crazy. Donât be fooled. Itâs obvious whatâs happening. First Bragg, then Vick, and NOW JJ? PLEASE and give me a break.
Letâs not feed the monster anymore than has been fed. Letâs let this die a slow death. We all know one of the top recruits in the nation, would NOT throw his NBA career or draft status away on something so scummy as this. He is too far removed from this and IF, IF, IF, he did have anything remotely to do with this, he was simply standing by and maybe trying to keep his teammate from this very trashy tabloid mess. My guess itâs trumped and the scum that cooked this mess is not only dealing Vick, but theyâve raised the stakes and are now dealing Jackson into the whole mess. Their agenda is obvious. Letâs let Self and Co take care of this trash. It will be taken out and disposed of properly.
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@wissox said:
I donât live anywhere near KC. Fill me on the Star. I really am not aware of the Star and their biases/leanings.
Letâs just say thereâs a reason some call it the âRed Starâ around these parts.
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BIFM is next! Donât worry the Starâs got stories for days
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âLetâs not feed the monster anymore than has been fed.â
Probably a wise idea.
But we are ready for Plan B, if necessary. âPlan Bâ⌠the âBâ stands for Bad Boys. We already know how to play Bad Ball. We could become the WVU on steroids. We wonât call it a âfull court pressâ⌠ours will be âfull court smash!â
Look at the bright side⌠We donât have to worry about giving up points in the post. Any opponent DARE come in the post with the ball gets undercut, punched, or has a bong shoved up their backside!
BTW: We can recruit Eric Laimbeer⌠Bill Laimbeerâs son. He has the perfect record to help build our new reputation.
(Friday comic relief)
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@mayjay ⌠yikes, I donât like that timeline at all.
