Some misc, possible concerns:



  • Guys, the only thing that is concerning me about our season right now is - - -this short bench. I’m just really afraid towards the end of the year we are going to have some really tired legs - - -Frank & Devontte averaging right at 37 minutes per game in Big 12 play, and for the overall season Frank is at 35 minutes per and Devonte is at 34.0 per game, you run that over the course of a season, thats ALOT of minutes. Now the others not that bad: SVI is like 29.5 in Big 12 - - Vick is at 29.0 - -Lucas is at 29.0 - -Jackson is at 22.0 in big 12 but that’s because of foul issues with him - -It’s Devonte & Frank that concerns me, you figure we are at MAYBE the half way point of the season - -ALOT of minutes - -question is, is there an answer to get them a little rest?

    Remember how we were worried about the free throw situation? - -how they were going to hurt us? - -Well while we are at 62.6 % overall for the season UP from that 59.4% - -BUT in Big 12 play since we started we are at 76.9 % in leauge play I think we are getting that turned around. - - Alot of that has to do with the right people shooting free throws. Frank is 21-24 in Big 12, the thing is no one else has attempted double digit attempts at the line in Big 12 - - -Devonte only 6 attempts - -equates out to 2 a game, that needs to be higher, Josh kind of surprises me only 9 attempts in 3 games - -equates to 3 per game, I would think his would be higher

    Any ways we got Oklahoma and then Oklahoma State this weeek hoping we go 2-0 - - as they say GETTER DONE – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer54 confident that their minutes will go down as JJ learns how to stay out of foul trouble. Him getting techs where he goes from 1 to 3 fouls and he has to sit for 10-12 minutes a game is what is causing the B12 minutes to go up for Frank and DG.



  • @jayballer54

    I worry about overall minutes, too. But I worry more about the style of play. I think Frank is more selective on when he goes full bore to the hole against defenders. Some of those situations are just flat out dangerous and definitely contributing to him getting banged up over a season.

    Our guys are in good shape, and a few minutes here or there shouldn’t mean a big difference (I’m saying this while crossing my fingers).

    The key (more than anything) is to try to pull a player when he absolutely looks fatigued out there. Those moments increase chances of risk.



  • There is definitely a concern about players wearing down with big minutes. I wonder if Self is hoping Josh can take some of those minutes. Obviously fouls have been his biggest issue, but at the end of the Tech game, Self made a concerted effort to make sure Josh was the one initiating the offense. I wonder if in all the talk about small ball, Self is actually brewing a super HUGE line up with 1 JJ 2 Vick 3 SVI 4 Bragg and 5 Lucas! I don’t even think Self would think of this as outside of the box as he basically considers there to be 2 positions on his team, little and big. JJ and to a lesser extent Svi have been utilized as both throughout this year.

    Jackson must have an off the charts basketball IQ for Self to trust him as a 4 and as the player to initiate the offense. He has moved him all over the floor this year, and the kid rarely seems out of his element, or struggling to know where he should be. He has really blown my mind this year with his versatility.



  • Enjoy the season we can worry about everything after its over. Enjoy the process, the season is short



  • If these players in peak physical force cannot play 30+ mpg during a 30+ game season, how are they going to service in the NBA where the regular season is 82 games long and each game is 48 minutes long?



  • @BeddieKU23 For sure! But what’s the point of discussing at all if we aren’t thinking about how to get better. Obviously Self isn’t likely scouring the internet looking for what non-coaches watching on TV or from the stands think his team struggles with and then anxiously awaits solutions from the same folks. But it’s fun to try and think like him, to notice things that maybe others didn’t, to analyze game to game, and hypothesize on the future.

    I’m generally a pretty positive guy, but that doesn’t mean you only look at the positive. The real challenge in being optimistic is finding the positive in things that are undoubtedly negative. Please don’t take this as a judgment on your strategy for enjoying a season, just simply and explanation of how I enjoy mine!



  • @JayHawkFanToo yeah the league is a lot tougher than college. They even have road trips with games on back to back nights. Our guys are fine



  • Not sure if y’all saw Jesse’s take on this issue a few days back.

    http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article124190389.html

    Pretty interesting when thinking about what is really best for the tournament. I do think Self is right that 8 would be ideal. But adversity can be the chisel that creates a chip. And we all know how @drgnslayr feels about a chip!



  • @benshawks08

    I’m fully on the same boat as you I just seem to be seeing a lot of folks worried, which is fine this isn’t a perfect team by any means. I have my worries and I have a feeling that in the next few weeks it could get tough for us fans. There’s also a chance we will just breeze on through this part of conference play.

    More of just a reminder, remember we have it so good, we are a good team, and enjoy it!



  • @BeddieKU23 Heck yes! I’d rather they be learning lessons from close wins than big losses. One loss and getting some 1st place votes is never a bad boat to be in no matter how hard it may be rocking! I’m hopeful this week will be smoother sailing in calmer waters. At least in the short term.



  • @benshawks08 said:

    Jackson must have an off the charts basketball IQ for Self to trust him as a 4 and as the player to initiate the offense. He has moved him all over the floor this year, and the kid rarely seems out of his element, or struggling to know where he should be. He has really blown my mind this year with his versatility.

    That slight hesitation on the way to the hoop that allowed him to not get blocked on Saturday was so cool, but so subtle! For all the ragging everyone has done on the ESPN commentators, they were in awe at his maturity.



  • This is 2012 depth, 2012 worked out pretty well and there is no 2012 UK looming this year.

    Defense is obviously a concern, but this team has about as good of a chance as any.



  • While Mason and Jackson are carrying the point load for this team, both have their eyes on a future in the NBA. Jackson playing well could increase his top 5 draft stock, and Mason could use a POY status to improve his overall stock. . I do fear injuries, etc. as the season progresses, but I also fear that both may take their eye off the “team” concept, in Feb and March, and try to showcase their individual talents for the NBA. Can someone alleviate my fears please?.



  • @hawkmoon2020 they play for KU and Bill Self!



  • @hawkmoon2020 How much more can Josh and Frank showcase their talent. I mean Frank is the key to our whole team, and he is the PG. The beauty is that opponents cant really cut our “head” (PG) off, since we have multiple ball handling guards, and also Frank is just too quick, too crafty, and an athletic freak.

    How many teams have tried to stop Frank, yet he saves us with timely buckets, and is far and away the leading scorer. Duke couldnt stop him.

    Frank is better and tougher than we think he is. He has a better chance of making the League than Sherron did, mostly because of mindset, but also because of physical reasons.

    Josh Jackson is a highlight pkg already. Every scout KNOWS Self’s system takes time to master for a frosh…but here you have one that actually makes it run better. So YES, his basketball IQ truly is off the charts. JJ is absolutely amazing. Not protecting the goods, which is the exact opposite of “showcasing” for the NBA. He is showcasing by example, and he gets major props for his attitude and leadership. Of course, I remained sickened by the fact he leaves us as a lotto pick in 5 months. Wish we’d get him for another year.



  • watching the TT game i didnt understand why Mason and Graham were still in at 2:30 left with a 17 point lead. Thought maybe you could put in a line up of Vick, Svi, Bragg, Lightfoot and Self to finsih the game. My biggest concern is defense and rebounding at this point.



  • Personally I think Coach Self is sticking with his 7 man crew for the duration. We might see Coleby and Lightfoot every now and again. But, this team has a short bench, similar to the 2012 team. Im betting Coach wants to maximize his production from those guys, get them as much time as he can, give them a fighting chance to be peaking in March. Which is what we want, right? I dunno. Its just a guess.



  • If a college kid can’t play 34-35 minutes a game twice a week, then they’re poorly conditioned. I understand injuries happen.

    Danny Manning averaged 35 minutes a game his senior year. Ended pretty well. There’s no stats for minutes played even in the early 1980’s for college, but pros there are stats.

    Wilt averaged 48.5 minutes per game one season as a pro. Let’s see, 12 x 4 = 48. That’s probably one of the more obscure records, but pretty amazing. By the way that season he scored 50 a game and had 25 RB"s a game, so you know, he was really pretty good!



  • @Lulufulu I like the comparison to the 2012 runner up team. The short bench forced only a seven man rotation but the chemistry and feel that those guys had was outstanding and they reaped the benefits at the end of the year. This team’s A game is not until February and March, which is what we want. I think people view this team as overrated and not on the same level as Kentucky and UCLA, which is fine, but that is because there was little cohesiveness at the beginning of the year. I mean, how much better are those other top teams going to be? Our guys need to keep being nitpicky about their play and focus on doing better every game. Just like last year, this team will steadily improve its chemistry, defense and overall synergy which will help us down the road.



  • @Lulufulu I see what you are saying but lightfoot or coleby will have to play sooner or later because we will be in foul trouble. LL isn’t going to develop more bye the end of the year bye playing the final minutes in a 17 point game. Keeping the legs under these guys and free from injury is more important IMO. The 12 team isn’t compareable because we only had 7 scholarship players that year with Mari, BMAC sitting out and Anderson I believe was the kid that never was cleared. I’m fine with 7 in crunch time but get Mitch some minutes we will need him.



  • @kjayhawks Coming in for foul trouble is not the same thing as being a rotation player. With UA down, Self has shown that he’s going to go with a 7 man rotation with Vick and Bragg as the primary bench guys. If Self didn’t turn to Lightfoot in the TCU or KSU games in a meaningful way, he’s not going to this year. The only way Lightfoot becomes a rotation player at this point is another injury to someone. Other than that, he’ll get spot minutes when both Lucas and Bragg are in foul trouble.



  • @kjayhawks said:

    we will be in fool trouble…

    I know you have forbidden me from replying to you, but this was so unintentionally on point and funnier than hell so I couldn’t resist. It is a great point, exemplified by Josh’s aptly renamed technical fool!



  • @mayjay haha no worries…We will leave the past where it belongs.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 agreed I’m not saying he should be a rotation player but experience will help when he’s called upon, should play late in a 17 point game.



  • @BeddieKU23 I do enjoy - - Doesn’t mean I don’t have legitimate reason for concern plain and simple. It would down right ridicilious to try and turn the head and say relax - -come on let us be real. You know I know everyone who knows you have players averaging 37-38 minutes a game for the season you DO wear down - -seen it happen in the past and not saying it WON’T happen again. - -relax? - -enjoy? No body has said anything about this not being a good team, no where did you see that in my opening statement did you? I think your living a very false dream if you think ANYONE is gonna BREEZE through conference, come on now, your better then that - -was that surpose to be funny? I certainly hope you were joking on that ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • This is not really new. Coach Self has always indicated that by Conference play time he likes to be down to 7 or 8 players taking the bulk of the minutes. He is not alone, I have heard Coach K and Jay Wrong among others say pretty much the same thing. The squid tried platooning and playing 10 players and did not work out well and indicated he will not do it again.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    It’s called a rookie season.



  • @jayballer54

    Notice how I didn’t address what I said to you personally. I was in general saying we have so much going for us, let’s not forget to enjoy what we do good instead of what we think we don’t do well.

    And yes there is a chance this team could breeze through the conference slate if things go right. The K-St game was a wakeup call for the defense, we saw much better energy and aggressiveness against Tech. Hopefully tonight we see the same effort on the road against arguably the worst team in the league. It’s a tough league but these guys know what to do. I’m looking forward to the next few weeks challenges, and I’m confident we can overcome them



  • @BeddieKU23 oh I knew it wasn’t personal to me, all I’m sayin is I am enjoying the season BUT also realistic, that’s a lot of minutes on any person’s legs don’t matter what type of shape you in. - Ya, Ya I hear about how Syracuse did this in such and such a year and how we have done this before BUT to that I say those are rare exceptions - - not the rule. - -Your gonna have a tendency to wear down don’t care who you are like kjayhawks said can’t really see why he couldn’t have pulled Frank and or Devonte late when we are up double digits late. - - But hey I for one AM NOT going to Challenge Coach Self - -that’s why he is the Coach and I’m the ol wrinkled up guy sitting in the easy chair making decisions and never lost a game lol. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer54

    My misc. possible concern right now is that UFO in Chile deciding to hover over Allen Field House and a greenish yellow tractor beam lifting Self up while Self is walking to his car. Alien civilizations are plagued by alumni that want to win at any cost and will even consider hiring off planet.

    (Note: all fiction. No malice. For those trying to control my mind, or their own.)



  • @jayballer54

    I share the same fear about the wear and tear. We could already be seeing it with Devonte with his sort of “off games” and Frank who had some games that Self thought weren’t his best until the Tech 26 point game.

    We will see waves, hard for these kids to be energizer bunnies all the time. I don’t like seeing Frank or Devonte out there when the game is already decided. We are literally riding the health of those 2 guys as far as we can go. It will be key to see how the staff handles their game minutes and practices to keep them as fresh as they can be going forward



  • @jaybate-1.0 LMAO, I wonder if they could pick me off and then drop me off in Vegas - -been wanting to go but my Truck is broke down, no way to get there right now, could use the lift lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @BeddieKU23 Excellent points, the exact point I am trying to convey. - -We have had our injuries, and made it shaky, but were managing - - -BUT the TWO that we CAN NOT absolutely CAN NOT have any type of injury to, is to either of these guys. - -Even though it hasn’t happened for the last game maybe two is Devonte’s cramping, just worries - -any type of injury to these guys either one would be very critical maybe to much to over come just keeping fingers crossed - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @benshawks08 And also the P word !



  • @jaybate-1.0 said:

    Note: all fiction. No malice. For those trying to control my mind, or their own.

    Do you buy the super-large rolls of tin foil at Sam’s? :man_with_turban:



  • Thread on the Phog right now asking if we should play zone. Self won’t do it I reckon.



  • @mayjay

    That is funny…you almost owe my a new keyboard, luckily I was holding a napkin that I was was able to place over my mouth just in time. :smile:


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