If Bill’s roster falls apart…
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Like him or loathe him Scheyer was running much of the show for years already before K stepped away
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Though I think he did assist in the coaching search and had a lot to do with them getting Kleiman who has been pretty solid.
And theres the hook I am looking for, the bridge.
Peaceful transition of power.
I want Bill and Goff to figure out what that looks like before he is riding on fumes.
Goff has to keep Bill on task here.
Well it helped that Snyder was 79 years old at that time… I get what you’re saying. I personally don’t want Bill involved with his own replacement. It has been a disaster so far everywhere they’ve done that. Syracuse, Nova and UNC to name a few. Izzo was seemingly holding MSU hostage only to be having a fantastic season…
Of course I want a peaceful transition, but I think that could be 10 years from now. You can’t just force this kind of thing on a guy who doesn’t want it.
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@Kcmatt7 I feel like he’s hanging on because it’s expensive to put in new countertops and re-pave the driveway. Wants to save for a nice vacation with the wife. Needs to pay off the car. You know, he’s just a regular guy like the rest of us.
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@nuleafjhawk lolol
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Why this is a lovely thread!
Lots of anger seeping over between KState and the Chiefs this weekend.
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@rockchalkjayhawk I mean we have kept it on the rails and civil. Im proud of us tbh, rough rough week for Kansas sports for sure
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There is a lot of talk here focused on lineups, NIL, and transfers, but everyone is missing the one common factor in all of Self’s F4 teams. What we need to turn around the KU basketball skid is another Teahan.
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2000 was the last time we were an 8 seed. Beat Depaul, played Duke tough. Roy had gone the 3 years (gasp) between the 1997 upset and 2000 without making it to the 2nd week of the tourney and were really pretty low years for this program. But Roy hit some recruiting home runs and the next year we made it to the sweet 16 with the young trio of Nick, Kirk and Drew, 3 first name guys that most of us know well. Bill is recruiting at a high level and makes me think this is going to turn around soon.
Of course this year ain’t over. We don’t have a Danny Manning on this team but I’d say we have guys that are better than anyone else that played on that 88 team. That team lost 5 in a row right at this time of year and of course got hot and made history. We have talent to win a lot of games. Hoping it gels here.
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I don’t believe Self is going to be KU’s coach 5 years from now. I believe he’ll retire within the next 5 years because of how much he detests what college basketball is becoming. There’s a reason why he turned down the NBA when he had a chance, there’s a reason he’s never really been involved with USA Basketball (probably more of an Adidas vs. Nike think though), his dislike of NIL and the transfer portal.
With as much roster turnover as there’s been recently, it’s not going to be a culture shock to have to essentially bring in a new team. I really could see next season being Self’s last with the group he should have next year and then hanging it up.
I do hope that whenever that day comes, it’s something that’s announced either before the season ends or within a week or two of the season ending so KU isn’t the boat of being forced to promote from within because I don’t think any of the current assistants deserve the head coaching job.
Personally, the coach I would go grab is Will Wade. Everything he got in NCAA trouble from is legal now and he could easily be here for 20+ years.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I was just going to say I think next year will be Bills last. He has stated he didn’t want to follow in a trend of long time like K-- Boheim and such. He stated that he wasn’t finished but thought he was on the back nine, wanting to retire early enough to be able to enjoy time with his wife and the grandkids.
Everything I’ve heard and realize that having to recruit kids-- on the road recruiting so much is really grueling /hard being away so much. Coach now with this dam NIL & portal is just to much. ?Basically having to practically recruit huge roster turnover almost every year.
Coach is not a big NIL/Portal guy he said they are good but both of them put together at the same time is not Now he catching all this shade from the 250-0 career beer guzzling/hoagie sandwich Couch Coach’s just to much- -saying screw this , don’t blame him one bit - We won’t have any problem pulling one of these Couch Coachs that know so much more about the game and how it should be run- -we will be fine
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@SlimShaddy54 i’m more of a career 75% rec league win percentage, kombucha guzzling cava munching dad. I’m fancy. But yeah, Im ok with being lumped with the beer guzzling hoagie muncher couch coaches. Its fine, forget I said anything.
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@approxinfinity LMAO , well sir I think when it comes to our selection of our next Upper Crust Coach- - - YOU will have to be relegated to a Tier 2 candidate— - you are just on the edge of credibility lol
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Maybe all the inconsistent play we have seen in the last couple years is player related only. All his talk of what standard he wants from players after games like Saturday is good insight to the struggles. He doesnt sound surprised his team is still playing this way.
No way I want Bill fired but I’m at a loss of words for some of what we are seeing. I think we can all recognize that Bill is in fact in the last years of his career. It’s on the horizon.
I can’t imagine he hangs it up without his legacy having one more big time run. He’s been the ultimate competitor as a coach and that’s been the fuel to much of the success we’ve been so spoiled with. This year was supposed to be high expectations based on the roster churn and enough of a core returning to compete for all of the season accolades. We’ve had no major long term injury concerns that usually derail a season like this. We have plenty of depth at most positions. We have plenty of guys that have scored a lot of pts in their career and won a lot of games. A few of them even played on a National Championship winning team.
So what is the problem then?
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@BeddieKU23 I think there isn’t one single problem with this bunch. Most of the issues the blame falls on Bills shoulders IMO. To walk up to a press conference after you just got taken to the wood shed by Gonzaga and say you were thinking about next years team, building it and how it would be different. Basically in old school terms his mouth wrote a check his ass couldn’t cash. He hand picked these guys and they cohesively suck donkey ass. We all knew AJ was a problem with effort and staying engaged @wissox said it all year last year as a Wisconsin fan. We all knew Zeke couldn’t play defense to save his life. We all knew Hunter doesn’t play defense and KJ isn’t a guy you want starting and playing 30 plus minutes on a good basketball team. We all knew Juan isn’t aggressive enough and doesn’t have any leadership skills. It’s definitely on the players as well but they did get asked to come here. I think this team need a vocal leader as I’ve said many times the best teams I’ve played on and coach had very vocal guys that held each other highly accountable.
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@kjayhawks We don’t actually know what KU’s big board looked like in regards to the transfer portal. We also don’t know a complete list of who did or did not express interest in coming to KU through the portal.
We also don’t know what the scouting reports the assistants put together that were responsible for scouting potential transfer players because Bill isn’t doing that on his own.
In regards to AJ, KU struggled to manufacture points last season because they didn’t have anyone who could do that. What was AJ’s reputation on offense? Someone who could create his own shot. The logic was fine in pursuing AJ and we’ve seen Self and staff turn other players with similar reputations into serviceable players. We’ve also seen it backfire as well even before AJ. I’m also not ready to fully write AJ off yet because we were having these same discussions about Remy Martin this time of season 3 years ago before the light finally came on for him. That also doesn’t mean I expect the same thing to happen with the light coming on for AJ, just that it didn’t happen for Remy until March and there were similar discussions of people writing him off in February as well.
The scouting issues are also why I believe there’s needs to be a shake up with the assistant coaches because that’s where a lot of the deficiencies in regards to being prepared and who to target in recruiting comes from. Self is the big picture game plans, but the assistants are doing to poor job of preparing those plans.
We also know Hunter is the source of the chemistry issues on this team. There’s too much smoke there for it to not have some merit. We saw that with Arkansas last season with their rumored guy love triangle within the team and that turned a team picked 3rd in the SEC and a dark horse Final Four pick in the preseason to a losing record overall and a 12th place finish in conference play.
Getting Hunter out of the program I think will be good, and hopefully KU doesn’t give any more players 7 figure NIL deals to transfers because those don’t seem to work to well for many of those players.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 all valid points for sure and yes I agree whomever is doing our scouting/recruiting is absolutely terrible at their job. One thing that continues to drive me insane is with our depth, why don’t we push the ball more? Basketball 101 easiest way to score is to beat the others teams defense down the floor. Remember when we used to be deadly in the open floor and teams were scared of us running. Now Juan for some reason just lazily walks the ball up the floor 99.9% of the time. When we push he ain’t doing it.
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If it’s me, I’m hiring a front office type group with a GM, recruiting guys, and analysts to do all the portal scouting and most of the recruiting. It’s clearly paid huge dividends on the football side and I’m not sure a small handful of assistant coaches can handle coaching, scouting, the portal, and NIL. Go get some young, hungry guys who want to prove themselves. I’d look at the NBA first.
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Telling @approxinfinity he’s “really f…ing stupid” is without a doubt the worst thing I’ve seen written by a bucketeer ever. Approx saved us from being lost in cyber space when we left the LJW chat site. He found us and we came and barely skipped a beat. I don’t know any clue how he sets this up, maintains it, pays for it, and/or tolerates the inane comments from so many of us and keeps it going. I didn’t find his position on Self to come anywhere near to intolerably disagreeable, just an opinion that some agree with, others might not.
Thanks Sir for what you do. We appreciate it. This is a great community.
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@FarmerJayhawk not a bad idea we have to do something different obviously. As much as I’ve stuck up for Self and enjoyed his time here. This is a new age, we can’t go out there and do the same thing as the past 20 years and be successful. Like I said on another thread losing at home to average teams, getting blown out on the road and going home first weekend of The NCAAs. That’s not Kansas Basketball unless we keep down the same path. Stat people I’m curious how many home games we have lost the last 5 or 6 years think it’s now over half Selfs 20 home losses. God AFH used to be the most feared gym on planet now it’s just another court to shoot on smh sad sad reality.
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@wissox for sure it was a little harsh which I know I am at times especially with @Texas-Hawk-10 but he’s truly on of my favorite people to go back and forth with and would enjoy having a beer with most of posters on here.
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Great idea
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@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Texas-Hawk-10 all valid points for sure and yes I agree whomever is doing our scouting/recruiting is absolutely terrible at their job. One thing that continues to drive me insane is with our depth, why don’t we push the ball more? Basketball 101 easiest way to score is to beat the others teams defense down the floor. Remember when we used to be deadly in the open floor and teams were scared of us running. Now Juan for some reason just lazily walks the ball up the floor 99.9% of the time. When we push he ain’t doing it.
Basketball 101 also says if you have the more talented team, you want to increase possessions to exploit that talent gap. This team doesn’t have that talent gap, so this is why I’ve advocated going back to Self’s bad ball of turning games in rock fights played in the 50’s and 60’s. The best KU has looked overall this season was when Self went with a defensive oriented line up and turned up the pressure on that end.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 at times both have worked for this team. I’m not sure which is the correct for going further in March at this point in time
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@Crimsonorblue22 Who wouldn’t want to coach at KU? But we have got to make the position available first, right? That’s the hardest part.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
If it’s me, I’m hiring a front office type group with a GM, recruiting guys, and analysts to do all the portal scouting and most of the recruiting. It’s clearly paid huge dividends on the football side and I’m not sure a small handful of assistant coaches can handle coaching, scouting, the portal, and NIL. Go get some young, hungry guys who want to prove themselves. I’d look at the NBA first.
That’s how I see it too, model it after the pros. That’s what college bball is now.
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I wonder if a good ol’ student protest would shake things up here—maybe with some catchy chants like, “No Trophy, No Tenure!” This feels like another wild what-if scenario. Honestly, there are probably a ton of colleges out there with a “win or walk” contract: if the head coach doesn’t haul in a national championship within eight years or at least crash two Final Fours, he’s getting the boot. No pressure, coach!
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Never let the inmates run the show. That’s what I’m gathering here. Lol
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@wissox appreciate the encouragement, but i want to be able to wear my normal dude hat and not be an admin and Matt brought the energy and the debate. I am no doubt an instigator, but we stayed on the rails and got to a good place. All good here.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 @kjayhawks imo starting Dajuan Mayo Rylan Bidunga and Hunter gives us our best chance. We need scoring and defense to start and we can then morph into a defensive lineup if we build a lead to protect with Shak at the 1 or 2, and KJ as the other big alongside Flory.
All other lineups are liabilities imo, unless luck is on our side. There is no offensive oriented equivalent that doesnt blow donkey butt.
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@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Texas-Hawk-10 at times both have worked for this team. I’m not sure which is the correct for going further in March at this point in time
KU’s not going to have the more talented more for most of their match ups past the first round. I’d go with slow it down and muddy the games up to limit possessions.
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I’d be interested to know what our time of possession is on offense currently and where that ranks to past teams/national rank. I’m not sure limiting possessions on that end helps us with a whole bunch of guys who can’t shoot well. Your two starting bigs are making only 50% of their attempts. This has been a very limited offensive team outside a handful of games. But I’m sure there’s probably something to gain by limiting possessions once you accept you don’t have an offensive juggernaut team. Is that even something that can be changed this late?
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I realize we don’t have the make up on this team at the present to do this but I still think our best team is when we get out and run, run , run , after missed Ft’s- after made Baskets- - after missed shots.-- just RUN Roy use to have us running loved it.
I think we DO have some that could fit that type now-- like Flory - – Diggy - - --Rylan- - -Peterson next year , we need good fluid mobile five man - -sure not like Dickinson - -really good fluid smooth wings - -PG’s - -( umm hello Darryn ) let it fly . Recruit fluid , mobile , quick depth bench wise also - -just GO work other teams over with the pace-- just think a lot better way to go other then post some sloth down low and wait for him to miss chip shots off his 2 inch explosion and offense that is slow and methodical limited possessions are in the past , we got to go
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@dylans Did you see “Takin Care of Business”? (Old show with Jim Belushi)
The inmates DO run the show! lol
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@approxinfinity 3 years*
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Bill has never emphasized or pushed playing the run, run, run game
We have to be down 10-15 and then we push it (I’m meaning even good 2022 teams)
I 100% agree based on what this years team has shown we gotta try to win ugly but had we leveraged our talent early like against Duke it’s the opposite of go out score people
We play our best when maximizing possessions and it’s why we look good early on every year. Then bill says we didn’t play defense
Then we do whatever that looks like and the offense completely plummets
When he lets them play free and get out offensively we got a better chance than “winning ugly”
This years team sucks because of the big 3 and they can’t hardly score with anyone so you gotta win 61-59 which won’t work for 6 straight games but it is their only option based on the neutered roster
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@kuballin10 Nah, not just because of the big three, I’d say. A great coach will be able to model plays based on each player’s capability, instead of forcing them to play his way. That’s what we’re seeing night in and night out. Flory will flourish had he played in teams like Miami, or MSU. There’s something really wrong when you see transfers’ numbers go down across the board. The system is bad. Period.
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@jay4ever said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@kuballin10 Nah, not just because of the big three, I’d say. A great coach will be able to model plays based on each player’s capability, instead of forcing them to play his way. That’s what we’re seeing night in and night out. Flory will flourish had he played in teams like Miami, or MSU. There’s something really wrong when you see transfers’ numbers go down across the board. The system is bad. Period.
Those are WILD examples
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@FarmerJayhawk That’s the point.
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@jay4ever said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@FarmerJayhawk That’s the point.
Miami who is terrible and MSU who doesn’t really use the portal? Unless it’s sarcasm I missed?
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As you said when he lets them play free and get out offensively. We are a better team when/if we play hard and without fear. Really it is without having to worry about being pulled if you take a non-Self shot from three which is a missed shots. Let them sort it out. When you go 1 out of 12 over two games there are options like Storr over Rylan or Coit over Shak. If you dog it getting back on defense or don’t fight around a screen, etc, then you deserve to be put in time out. I agree with 61-59 as a loser and we have gone three out of five wins over and over this season. Bill is a great coach so you will have to take it up on yourself to make a splash and if you can’t do that which is not likely with AJ or Rylan then we see 18 minutes for Flory and 30+ for KJ. No one will step it up over six games that I can see.
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@FarmerJayhawk I think the point is he’d get more run, be better and showcase more
Same with Cam Spencer last year. If he came to KU he wouldn’t have been as successful
Griffen and AJ proved it at other schools. Both were more successful elsewhere
Rylan shoots a 3 and if he misses he’s looking over his shoulder. At bama Oats is screaming keep shooting
Self should elevate all his players to get the absolute best out of them. Instead he admitted to mind f’n AJ and speaks of those transfers not coming along quick enough. They’ve proven it elsewhere so it’s his philosophy and system that’s the issue not elevating his guys.
Imagine if he treated those guys the same as his 3 boys? Maybe they would play better.
Talked with multiple buddies who are all diehards like us and they are seeing the same thing. Long leash, his favorites, body language by guys getting the quick yank ect
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Another example - Liam McNeely had 38 last night in a 70-66 win at creighton
No way he is allowed to shoot 22 times here as a frosh. I doubt DP will be allowed to do that.
Gotta play dolla bill’s system and he’s a frosh so missing 1 three that Bill doesn’t agree with and you get the bench until mid second half
Kease got the yank for a 3 where the ball worked inside out. Hand down man down and bill still didn’t care
This is why guys don’t play with confidence here. Don’t shoot 3’s, win 54-52….man just retire this year Bill let’s bring in a coach who can adapt and let guys play loose
Watch us actually elevate once he does
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It is great to hear high profile coaches talk about Kansas as a destination school. If we are spoiled ass Kansas fans I would like to be spoiled for another couple decades
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@kuballin10 I would be shocked/stunned if we didn’t change our tempo next year, or at least give it an extended run. - With the make up of what is a good foundation of very up tempo with ( Flory if he returns ) - -Peterson - -Diggy ( if he comes back -you will have a very solid for this to work with.
Go to the portal get you a couple of smooth SF or Guards/combo- - Hell MAYBE Rylan will come back- -lol , doubtful but maybe, I think Rylan would thrive bette in a more open style up tempo game then this whatever were running now.
believe it or not players love getting out and go Coach ha the wrong type of players in this offense to fit -you can’t put thorough Breds in a dam Mule race–won’t work. As I stated in another post, the offense Bill is running just looks like a mess- -ugly to watch, bogs down , no flo , no rhythm.-- Like I say I would think with the possible make up of next yrs roster- -you got to change tempo.-- Griffen , Peterson , Flory , Diggy would be a great start
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@SlimShaddy54 I’d love that but it is never been who Bill is. He wants to win ugly and win defensive shootouts and “play bad but make the other team play worse”
Rather than just focusing on us playing our best he tried to hedge against us playing poorly instead of trying to maximize playing great ball
I’ve never seen a bill self team run until they are down double digits. It’s why we have so many upsets because we have horses he just holds them back from running
No teams have been like Roy’s brand of ball. The closest was the Graham-svi-Malik-Vick team that just ran to Chuck 3’s. They were seniored enough that Bill couldn’t yank them all. We then got Dok back reverted to slow it down and throw it inside and got boatraced avainst nova. We didn’t defend the 3 point line cause Bill hates “easy baskets” which to him is defend inside-out because he can’t grasp that a shot close to the rim albeit guarded is still more difficult than a wide open 3.
His thinking is drastically flawed. You’d think he’d see all of KJ’s “close to the basket” misses versus a zeke wide open 3 and figure out the zeke 3 is better BUT NOPE he prefers throwing it in to kj or getting kj 1v1 for a last second completely contested shot - because it’s uh uh closer to the basket so don’t analytics say uh uh that’s a higher percentage shot??? - no Bill ur analytics department needs to be fired
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@kuballin10 LOL “…no Bill ur analytics department needs to be fired” - he needs to start using Deepsheeet - AI-powered Sports Analyst.
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Diggy said he would be eager to return next year. Does have the extra year. Hopefully he does
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@BeddieKU23 said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Diggy said he would be eager to return next year. Does have the extra year. Hopefully he does
As long as he’s fine with being a back up. If he’s expecting to start of Elmarko, or anyone else Self and staff may bring in, then it’s going to be a problem.
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The guards for next season appear to be Elmarko, Diggy, Peterson, and McDowell.
Passmore could play the 2 as well, but he’s more of a wing with Storr and Griffen.
We all thought we’d lose more players to the portal than we did last season and NIL was likely a huge part of that.
I know not many people really want to see AJ Storr return, but with how much he’s allegedly making in NIL here this season, does he return because of financial reasons? Does anybody know if he’s still with his girlfriend that was a big factor in transferring to KU or have they broken up at some point?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know one of the radio guys was talking to Storr, post game, about his gf. Seems good.
