Wackos at Waco Game Thread
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@jayballer67 tough to win on the road.
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@jayballer67 bad start for the zags too.
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@benshawks08 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
@jayballer67 bad start for the zags too.
just bad all over. we still in the drivers seat. - -I wouldn’t be THAT surprised if Texas beats Baylor Monday night
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Really it was just a night when we couldn’t make layups and missed 21 threes. Its not gonna happen again likely.
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Back to rooting for Ukraine in something that truly matters
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Starters were 20-62. One of those messed up days
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@Kcmatt7 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
All the confidence I had gained in this team since Feb. 1 went out the window tonight.
Last 26 minutes with Remy on the floor we are -29.
One week to figure this shit out.
Remy Martin wasn’t the issue tonight. Thamba, Sochan, and Brown killed KU for 44 points, almost all of them in the paint and drew a crap ton of fouls on KU. Jalen Wilson was fucking terrible tonight and should not have played 38 minutes. Wilson needs to learn how to defend the pick and roll in a hurry because he left his teammates out to dry way too many times by leaving the roller and forcing the help defender to be the only guy defending one of their bigs rolling to the basket.
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@jayballer67 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
so help me understand - - we went from wishing/wanting to be able to get Remy back - to Remy costing us the game. - - Got it.
Remy didn’t cost KU this game. Jalen Wilson playing 38 minutes with his head up his ass was the biggest culprit tonight.
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Zags going to lose. Win tonight would have put us in the drivers seat for the #1 overall seed.
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Well, we lost. Ok. That sucks, But, it really seemed like a bad shooting night did us in. I saw a ton of effort across the board. A few quick triggers here and there, but not horrendous play. Even Big Dave was great on the boards, just couldn’t make a layup, as usual. Surprise! The return of The Dribbler. I still think he helps us at some point. More KJ!!!
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@Kcmatt7 We would’ve joined the conversation for the overall number 1 seed, I’m sure. As it is, on a national level, the loss didn’t hurt us. I still think we’re the 3rd number 1 seed. Lunardi is saying that Auburn falls to a 2, and Baylor moves up to a 1 seed.
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We still may be the in the conversation for a #1 seed, but we need to play better in the next 3 games - none anything close to a sure thing. Right now, this sure doesn’t look or feel like a #1 seed team. There have been too many instances of long stretches of just bad basketball this year. We gave up 49 to the Bears in the second half - a handful of times we’ve given up 50 or close thereto in a half. We gave up 67 points in the last 26 minutes (+8 seconds) of the game - outscored 67-44 over that stretch. Against a team that basically has 6-1/2 players at right now. Got dominated in the paint after dominating the boards early. Allowed BU to shoot well over 50% in the second half.
Just difficult to see how this team can win 3-4 games in a row against quality competition, let alone 6. We just haven’t demonstrated that we are capable of doing that. Got whupped by UK, split with Baylor and TTU. Hope for a split with with UT. Is a sweep of TCU likely? An early exit seems at least as likely, if not more so, than a deep run. Would love to be wrong about that…
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Lost on the road to a top 10 team that had every reason to be motivated. Time to move on. Starters couldn’t piss in any ocean
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Remy was an issue last night. He does very little that’s actually positive. Pounds the ball and lost on defense. But getting 0 points from Harris and Jalen having his worst game in conference play were bigger issues due to the minutes they played
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9 points and 1 rebound in 27 bench minutes last night. 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks
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When we cannot stop inside scoring and also get beat at our own game of fast breaking it’s a 20 plus point loss scenario or a huge blowout if the other teams hits 40% from three. Thank the Baylor Bears for their piss poor shooting which kept their side of the ledger below 100 pts.
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Och got 27 and didn’t even have a good shooting night. He just needed help and got very little
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
@jayballer67 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
so help me understand - - we went from wishing/wanting to be able to get Remy back - to Remy costing us the game. - - Got it.
Remy didn’t cost KU this game. Jalen Wilson playing 38 minutes with his head up his ass was the biggest culprit tonight.
Oh I agree with you. It’s just some others all I heard read was how we needed Remy back how it would really help , & tonight we got him back and I hear about how he cost us the game and he did nothing - - just lloking for reasoning of double standards - either you want him back or you don’t. - Like you said and I agree - - it wasn’t him that cost us this game - -far from it
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I’m on record with I didn’t want him back and it certainly messed with Yesufu that he was back. That was noticeable
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I’ll say it again even though it will make me sound like a sourpuss: I don’t like the officiating approach in the B12 this season.
The amount of contact allowed effectively levels the playing field for teams that struggle to shoot and does a favor for teams that have size inside and teams that lack depth.
Baylor doesn’t struggle to shoot. They are legit. But our limited inside game was amplified and their injuries were mitigated.
I know I know. Teams have to adapt. But habituation to this style could work against B12 teams in the tourney with officiating crews from other conferences.
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I would have preferred Remy not been the first guard off the bench. Keep working the rotations and 7-8 man squad we’ve been running and then fit him in later in the half or game if needed or if score allowed. Maybe self thought the early blitz was enough but I doubt it. He said as much at halftime admitting defense wasn’t actually good to start Baylor just missed shots.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
I’m on record with I didn’t want him back and it certainly messed with Yesufu that he was back. That was noticeable
He’s back, which didn’t seem like a difficult prediction.
So, how do we put his skills to use? That’s what a good coach should be able to figure out. Highlight the positives, minimize the negatives.
His positives? Scoring, skill, confidence, making plays outta nothing, quickness. His negatives? Not understanding how to run the offense, which leads to his constant dribbling, and some aspects of his defense — he seems to have the motivation at times at least.
Put him off ball and call it a day.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
I’m on record with I didn’t want him back and it certainly messed with Yesufu that he was back. That was noticeable
It didn’t mess with Yesufu. Remy being back had nothing to with Yesufu still not understanding how to guard in Self’s defense. It may not have visible on TV, but there were multiple times in Yesufu’s limited minutes that he was badly out of position on defense and had to have others point to where he should’ve been. Same on offense as well. He was in Ochai’s spot several times and had Ochai and Harris having to direct him where to be on the floor on offense.
I know people want to shit on Remy for his flaws and give Yesufu a pass, but Yesufu still doesn’t know the system well enough on either end to be given extended minutes and isn’t a good enough player to overcome not knowing the offense or defense yet. People here generally accept it takes multiple years for a PG to learn and operate Self’s system at a reasonably high level. Harris is in his third year running the system whereas Remy and Yesufu are each in their first year.
Remy has been a bust here, no question about that, but I’ll never understand why people think Yesufu was going to come in and duplicate his two best games at Drake on a nightly basis while ignoring that he wasn’t a starter until an injury, and was an inconsistently high volume shooter who had quite a few games last year where he took more shots than he had points.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 yesefus first minutes on the floor were with Remy and Mitch. That is a much different crew than he’s been running with. He’s been at his best with Harris on the floor as a 2 that can give Och or Braun enough of a breather without too big of a drop off because of his ability to pressure on the ball and push tempo. He did t get an opportunity to do either of those things because he wasn’t in his regular rotation.
I totally agree he’s no savior or some underutilized superstar but will say playing with Remy definitely disrupted his play. Yes is good in the same way that Zach is good. Give them a simple assignment and they can execute if it’s within their athletic ability. He’s the only guard in this team with a shot at keeping either of Baylor quick guards out of the paint but spent most of his time on the bench because too much was asked of him in his first run on the floor.
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@benshawks08 Stop trying to make excuses for Yesufu. You just said he’s at his best at the 2 and then talked about not being used to playing with Remy and Mitch? Who do you think he’s playing with on the 2nd unit in practice? He’s spent more time playing with those two than he has with the starters so that’s a weak excuse on your part. Yesufu rarely gets extended minutes because he doesn’t know what he’s doing on tge floor most of the regardless if he’s running with the 1’s or 2’s.
Can someone please show me hard evidence that Yesufu is actually consistently a good defender at the Big 12 level instead of just talking about his athleticism giving him the abilityto stay in front of defenders because Yesufu gets blown by on the regular. There’s a reason advanced numbers have Yesufu as one of KU’s worst overall players this year.
He’s an inconsistent player at best and doesn’t offer near the ceiling that Remy does which is why Self wants to get Remy going.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 yes doesn’t get blown by on straight line drives like the Remy or Harris even. I don’t see practice. I watch games. And in games yes is best when playing with Harris and as a change of pace guard. That’s not how he was used on Saturday. Not an excuse for him. Just the facts. I’m literally saying he’s not an elite player. He can’t do more than one or two things well. Remy does more things well as an individual but is a total disruption to the flow of the team. Yes has shown an ability to fit in on the floor that Remy hasn’t mostly because he’s been injured and partly because he’s a great individual player that hasn’t had the opportunity to learn to play as a team player.
If Remy can become a team player in the next three games then yeah he’s the superior option for a tournament run. But I have my doubts that can reallly happen and in that case I’d rather keep the rotation that showed us the best ball this team has played all season. That includes yes playing limited minutes mostly at the two and extremely briefly at the one in very specific situations. That does leave Harris playing 35 plus a game but that’s just what it is for this team to be it’s best. What has Remy done to make you think he is having a positive impact on this team?
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Anytime we lose I scream about something.
But this game… in my opinion… showed a lot more bright than dim. I thought that was perhaps the best beginning we’ve had all year.
I thought our guys hustled and for most of the game, played a higher level defense than typical. I thought they showed toughness.
I took a smile away from this game and think we could do well moving forward.
I’m not expecting more than is realistic from this team. Hate to admit I agree with him… but I go pretty much with the Jay Bilas assessment. We are just a little bit below being a title contender at this point. If things improve, we could be a contender.
It all starts with effort and I’m giving our fellas high marks for their effort. Let’s just hope they have enough in their tanks to make it through the next 3 games.
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@drgnslayr said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
Anytime we lose I scream about something.
But this game… in my opinion… showed a lot more bright than dim. I thought that was perhaps the best beginning we’ve had all year.
I thought our guys hustled and for most of the game, played a higher level defense than typical. I thought they showed toughness.
I took a smile away from this game and think we could do well moving forward.
I’m not expecting more than is realistic from this team. Hate to admit I agree with him… but I go pretty much with the Jay Bilas assessment. We are just a little bit below being a title contender at this point. If things improve, we could be a contender.
It all starts with effort and I’m giving our fellas high marks for their effort. Let’s just hope they have enough in their tanks to make it through the next 3 games.
Boy I’ll tell you what , I agree with you on how ew got after it defensively for a pretty decent stretch. Looked real aggressive, I thought that was as about as good as I had seen from them defensively this year ,had some let down later but in a way understandable s that takes a lot out of you playing that hard - -which in turn can effect the offensive end your legs get tired - your shots start coming up short.
Ya it stinks we lost but in the over all grand scheme of things I don’t feel we hurt ourselves that bad. I stil think actually I think we win out Conference wise and take the title , and Joey Brackets said it didn’t effect our # 1 seed because of all the other upsets. just got to try and keep getting better. - I think what hurt us more then anything was Jalen not showing up. - -Och was Och obviously – -Christan had a good game -Dave was solid - if Jlen could of contributed would of been a different story
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Think I saw Baylor had a 22-7 edge in fast break points. Makes sense since we had offensive offense shooting from the perimeter. Long boards lead to easier transition opportunities.
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I was not able to watch the game, but I’ve been seeing some scuttlebutt about some of the questionable line-ups Bill put on the floor. Apologies if this has already been discussed ad nauseum in the above thread, but was foul trouble a culprit in some of the relief unit configurations or was this just “return of the Bill” at inopportune times? (Apologies to Mark Morrison).
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@tis4tim said in Wackos at Waco Game Thread:
I was not able to watch the game, but I’ve been seeing some scuttlebutt about some of the questionable line-ups Bill put on the floor. Apologies if this has already been discussed ad nauseum in the above thread, but was foul trouble a culprit in some of the relief unit configurations or was this just “return of the Bill” at inopportune times? (Apologies to Mark Morrison).
Foul trouble hit for Och & Mitch in the first half. CB might have also had 2. The refs got special in the 2nd half on both sides for a while destroying all flow and sanity for those watching.
KU had a sizeable lead for much of the first half (13 points at multiple times) then some bizarre lineups erased the lead in 3 minutes from the 5 and change mark to the 2 and change mark.
At one point in the first half the lineup combination was not what you’d call good use of your substitutions.
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@tis4tim The only subbing I took issue with was the FIRST subs. We’d built a decent lead early based off some bad shooting from Baylor. But we hadn’t quite demoralized them yet. Bill went with Mitch, Yes, and Remy for Dave, Harris, and Och or Braun (don’t remember which but I think it was Och). There was a significant let down when this group came in and while Remy did make a three out of nothing, and maybe a lay up in that stretch as well, the cohesion of the offense was visibly disrupted.
I think we need to face it that our bench just isn’t as good as our starters at basically every position. So in my opinion, substitutions need to be super calculated. Try to keep 3-4 starters on the floor at a time and allow the bench players to fit in as best as possible without disrupting the core group. I’m sure the schedule led to Bill hoping he could steal as many minutes from the bench as possible especially after the quick start, but once we let them back in it, they beat us all over the court. Actually impressive we kept it close after that huge momentum swing.
Wilson sucking and getting 38 minutes also sucked but I’m not sure who else we can really put at the 4 and expect them to rebound the way we know he can (obviously he didn’t this game…).
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@benshawks08 coach said today there’s probably something he’d go back and change. I’m pretty sure it would be that first substitution
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I agree… thought we substituted too soon. I think it was planned before the game to keep our guys rested. it seems like our strong start surprised Self! we were playing at a clip where we possibly could have gone up by 20. Then maybe ease in the bench instead of wholesale changes. i think we focused a little too much on having 4 games in a short time period.
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Thanks @BeddieKU23, @benshawks08, @Crimsonorblue22 and @drgnslayr. Appreciate the summary.
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To many at a time!
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On to the next one. We win the next 3, and we’re a number 1 seed.
