YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD
-
Self called him player of the game in the locker room. Big moment for the kid. He needed it
-
We’ve had huge debates in here about that over the years. And also how some players get yanked with one mistake, other players goof constantly and don’t get pulled.
I’m thinking back to some huge battles in here… RIP HEM!
Did you catch any of his posts? You might qualify as our next HEM in here. Someone who dare challenge the common thought in here. We need that friction in here! Keep posting!
-
Dilemma… what to do with PT? There were moments last night where we looked a lot better than in games we had Och. I’m not 100% sure we win this game if Och had been there. Not a slam on Och. He deserves All-American status! But the game is more than his 20 ppg. Joseph brought energy… tempo… something we have been deeply lacking!
Look what we overcame in this game! 22 TOs! It’s typical we have high TOs at ISU… but this game was never really out of our control. I think Joseph’s energy helped our team in many ways. We pushed the ball quicker on offense. Even though we played a little too sped up at places (high TOs) but we did enough to outscore ISU. Joseph’s energy was also felt on the defensive end. We still had some bad spots but overall we played better defense (which says a lot).
Do we cut Dajuan’s minutes? That’s a tough one. I think we all see where he’s coming up short. But he is guiding the ship. With all his minutes he is bound to continue to improve. The kid has improved considerably since arriving in Lawrence and he’s even shown improvement this season.
So did everyone play better because Joseph was out there? I think we have to realize they all felt under the gun after their no-show against UK, and knowing Och was out. They knew they all had to step up. But no denying the ball didn’t stick and that helped. We controlled tempo in this game and that made a huge difference!
-
There are 15-20 mpg for Joe (providing the Remy situation continues down the path I think it is). Which is all I think he should get. Not asking him to start over Harris. But there are 7ish minutes for him at PG and another 7ish playing 2 guards. I think there should hopefully be a few games he plays 25 because he’s 3-4 from deep and Bill rides the hot hand. Might come at a sacrifice for CB’s or JCL’s minutes, but that’s the benefit of having a microwave on the bench.
Bobby needs to be moved to emergency minutes only.
-
I think I’d keep Bobby like he is… just flash him a few minutes now and then to eliminate total rust. He’s not at 100%. But good chance he is a big part of our future after this year.
I think the main point (and question) of my post… how come we can look better when our All-American isn’t available for a game?
I’d like to hear people chime in on that!
Personally, I think having him out made everyone step up. DMac definitely brought more energy. CB had some good moments where he stood out. Dajuan definitely was more aggressive looking to score (he tied for high score with 14). And Jalen became more aggressive the second half.
I’m definitely PRO OCH! Just trying to figure out why this team isn’t reaching NEAR THEIR POTENTIAL! I think we are one of the most underperforming teams in America. Maybe we rely too much on Och as a team? I watch Och carefully and noticed he is bringing more effort throughout games now. He used to take big gaps of time off while on the floor. So are some of our guys just dumping their weight on Och’s back?
Jaybate and I used to always talk about Meso ball. Teams would be sacrificed once they came off the court. I wonder how this team would play if their lives were on the line? The closer we play to that standard is probably the best measuring stick for hustle. I think we are a long ways away from playing Meso ball!
-
Agree on everything you said here. There’s minutes. Self admitted he probably should be playing. Stick him out there Saturday and let him play freely. If he didn’t earn that opportunity after last night I don’t know what will ever get him there.
-
@Kcmatt7 correct Pettiford didn’t show us anything last night and you can’t with an abdominal strain. He needs to be done for the year.
Harris and Joe need to play the majority of the minutes. If Remy can get healthy he definitely cuts into Joe’s time depending on performance.
Whoever isn’t solid between Wilson or Braun is who needs to have their minutes cut which varies each night. Both are pretty identical players granted Braun is the better scorer with Wilson somehow not knowing how to shoot this year.
Big Dave has to play then Kj after that then Mitch sparingly. I will say at least Mitch has a little right hook these days that KJ doesn’t have but hopefully KJ can just turn and dunk!
Harris Och Braun Wilson Dave
6th man Joe Jcl when healthy (same for Remy) Kj/Mitch
-
I’ll never be HEM not enough time to do all that digging. He’s more of a stat guy I just rely on my eyes and past experience.
I think Och with attacking guards in Harris and Joe when pushing the pace out in transition will only elevate his game. Och has learned to drive and finish get that man out on the break all game long. He’s already hit enough pull up transition threes to know that’s a good shot.
Bill as always needs to loosen the reigns. There’s a happy medium of winning 75-69 versus the 44-42 slugfests he somehow enjoys (just awful basketball truthfully) and the 90-88 Roy ball where all we did was fast break with bad defense.
-
@drgnslayr My non-researched, non-statistically supported, opinion is that maybe playing Och and Braun at the same time slows the team down. Both are no doubt fast individuals, but neither is fast with the ball, neither is a great passer, and you’d rather both be on the finishing end of the fast break than the start.
Our best at starting fast breaks in my observation have been Wilson and Yes with Harris maybe 3rd and Remy 4th. Having Harris and Yes on the court at the same time felt right, but it’s hard to think this team could be better with one of the two best players (Och and Braun) on the bench. I think the on ball pressure of Harris/Yes is important to that as well. Braun has been a pretty good defender and is as good as anyone we have when his man goes up for a layup, but he is NOT in his man’s pocket making every pass and every dribble dangerous. That’s what Yes and Harris can do.
My concern with Yes is that he clearly hasn’t been trusted to run the show. Which means, like Remy, he has likely struggled to show consistency in the execution of individual plays and simple standard Bill Self Offense. Bill sees that as the easy stuff, the bare minimum. Be where you are supposed to be, make the pass you are supposed to make. Hopefully, Yes is making progress in that regard and can steal a few minutes at the 1 but I think his real skill set at the moment is at the 2.
-
@drgnslayr It helps when you can fill Och’s minutes with a 26 year old JCL and a would-be 1st-team all MVC guard.
If we had to roll out TGF or Enaruna last night I’m not sure you are saying the same thing today.
Ultimately, though, take away how well Harris, Wilson and Yesufu played. Dave was 16 points better than their big men and was able to stay on the floor for 31 minutes while being productive. If you can get 80% of that from Dave, most games will be wins regardless of the guard/wing rotation. Between Harris, Braun, Wilson, JCL, Och, Yes, and Remy our guards are going to score. The 5 has been the weakest spot all season. When Dave shows up, we win games relatively easily (see WVU & @ OSU). When Dave sucks, the game is tight. He has sucked a lot this season, but last night he didn’t.
-
@Kcmatt7 said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
@drgnslayr It helps when you can fill Och’s minutes with a 26 year old JCL and a would-be 1st-team all MVC guard.
If we had to roll out TGF or Enaruna last night I’m not sure you are saying the same thing today.
Ultimately, though, take away how well Harris, Wilson and Yesufu played. Dave was 16 points better than their big men and was able to stay on the floor for 31 minutes while being productive. If you can get 80% of that from Dave, most games will be wins regardless of the guard/wing rotation. Between Harris, Braun, Wilson, JCL, Och, Yes, and Remy our guards are going to score. The 5 has been the weakest spot all season. When Dave shows up, we win games relatively easily (see WVU & @ OSU). When Dave sucks, the game is tight. He has sucked a lot this season, but last night he didn’t.
Such a good point on Dave. This team is legit good when good dave makes an appearance.
-
@benshawks08 absolutely spot on
Joe Wilson Harris (when he decides to attack and push which Bill needs to be on him to do)
Causes och or Braun to play better
Wish we’d go with Wilson at the 5 because with Och back no way Dave sits and now Bill’s figuring out how can I play Harris and Joe…who’s gonna sit.
-
@kuballin10 said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
@benshawks08 absolutely spot on
Joe Wilson Harris (when he decides to attack and push which Bill needs to be on him to do)
Causes och or Braun to play better
Wish we’d go with Wilson at the 5 because with Och back no way Dave sits and now Bill’s figuring out how can I play Harris and Joe…who’s gonna sit.
Yeah. It think there is this mindset that Och and Braun need to play every minute because they are the best two we’ve got (though as noted above, good dave is pretty good). It will never happen but if Och, Braun and Harris all played closer to 27-30 instead of 30-35, that would leave some more space for Yes and Remy to fill in some more. But keeping that kind of rotation sounds much easier on a message board than it actually is in the heat of a live game.
I’m curious if anyone knows if there are coaches who have standardized rotations that don’t really rely on the flow of the game. Self obviously uses the bench as both a motivator and a punishment but I’m wondering what it would look like if everyone knew exactly when they were going to come in and how long they were going to be out there. I doubt it’s even possible let alone feasible or smart.
-
@benshawks08 yeah I agree but with Wilson pushing the pace it’s nice that’s why I said heck play him at the 5. He, och, yes and Braun can rebound and we only lose rebounding on the offensive end when Dave’s out.
Och and Braun can score hard to sit them like you said.
Only time that’s ever been done is the Grinnell offense look them up. William Chrisman then copied this and it worked when they had athletes.
Full court press, shoot a ton of threes and hockey line changes.
I think you play in the flow and Yes has to play more. Until Remy is healthy and even when he is so far Yes has show way more defensively just needs to get his shot to fall.
-
Good stuff in here! love it
-
I like that idea of resting those guys some. They not only get winded… but sometimes they just need to sit and watch a little of the game and have a reset!
I mention both of these guys taking time off during games. They are probably exhausted and they don’t get time for a reset. No time to think about what they can do differently to be more effective. And they should be getting some coaching on the bench. This seems to almost be a thing of the past in D1 and I don’t know why. Players used to receive instructions while sitting, not just at timeouts in the huddle.
Many of us have played organized basketball in here. I don’t know about the rest of you… but I always appreciated being coached on the bench.
The game has to be coached more than just timeouts and halftime in the locker room!
-
@benshawks08 said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
@drgnslayr My non-researched, non-statistically supported, opinion is that maybe playing Och and Braun at the same time slows the team down. Both are no doubt fast individuals, but neither is fast with the ball, neither is a great passer, and you’d rather both be on the finishing end of the fast break than the start.
I think you could expand this to include Harris as well. This trio at times does slow down KU’s attack because all 3 have a hard time getting past a defender on their own since they are really just straight line drivers. That’s why Remy at times even with his freelancing (which Self hates) is effective because sometimes you just need your guards to break down the guy in front of them. That’s what made Dotson so good in ways, his speed was faster then 99% of guards but it was his ability to get on the hip of the defender that was so good here. Harris even as a small guard isn’t that fast & most of the time needs a screen to turn the corner. CB as a wing is average speed at best and also relies on screens and motion. Wilson was a jolt into the starting lineup for a bit and still is at times for what he can do with the ball at 6’8. When his heads on right and he gets a good matchup he’s good at pushing pace.
But Yesufu showed last night that he can provide an absolute spark at getting to a spot on the floor in half court offense or in transition exploiting a team trying to get back on defense. KU built that 2nd half lead by blitzing ISU up the court. They couldn’t even get into their base defense before Braun or Wilson had already made a layup and Joe was a big reason why that was happening. I think we’ve seen at times the strength of this offense just pushing the pace as fast as they possibly can and not worrying about all these half court sets to try and get angles and open guys. Just my two cents
-
@BeddieKU23 you nailed it and the easiest way is to think about it on the defensive end.
As you said Braun, harris and hurt remy can’t get their head and shoulders by guys to actually get to the rim. This hurts our offense.
On D we aren’t quick enough to stop dribble penetration and other teams guards are constantly getting in the paint which opens up for dump offs and kick outs.
Lateral quickness is one of the most important athletic traits for this sport. Quickness/speed kills.
That’s why I always found it comical how people would gush about Reed as an athlete (not that he wasn’t) but he literally just stood and chucked threes 95% of his games. He never once looked to drive because he wasn’t quick enough.
Compare that versus Tyshawn who could literally get anywhere he wants. Joe’s similar in that ability he honestly reminds me of tyreek with his build and athleticism
-
Love Yesufu’s attitude
“I believe everyday is gonna be my day”
-
-
“We didn’t really run anything. We just kind of played,” Self said. “That turned out to be the best thing for us today.” ——Self hopefully woke up dwelling on this today. Let athletes be athletes but within structure.
Great article and Joe staying positive throughout all this shows his character
Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article257896568.html#storylink=cpy
-
I still believe all of those guys can get better at doing that though. They flash at times. How many tough layups did Harris make last night where he just made a play, several by my recollection. Yesufu had a take where he got stuffed but my lord I loved the aggressive play to make something happen. Just want to see more of it from the perimeter guys. There’s another level they haven’t even reached imo
-
How many years does Joe have left to play?
-
@rockchalkwyo said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
How many years does Joe have left to play?
I think he has 3 yrs left I looked at the roster. - -might be two
-
Joe last night : - - 23 minutes - - 7 points - - 5 rebounds- - ( nice for a kid his size aggressive ) – 4 assists - -& 3 steals. - -Pretty much says it all - - NUFF SAID - - pssst Coach
Actually now call me crazy I’ve been called other things on here - -BUT I actually think Joe should start over Remy. -just as quick if not quicker - -Aggressive on rebounding & drives.— -needs to see the floor. - I realize this is only ONE game-- BUT - - - - that is All. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@jayballer67 correct - Remy can score better when healthy and that’s about it. Everything else Joe is actually better at
-
@rockchalkwyo said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
How many years does Joe have left to play?
2 and the covid year I believe. If he sticks around i think he’s going to develop into a good guard here.
-
Perhaps a wee bit of overreaction to one game??? Yes, Joe provided a spark and stepped up when we were down a man. But, he took a few quick, ill advised shots. Net very positive, but… Yes, he should get more minutes off the bench. But the idea of him starting in place of Remy or anyone else??? Remy was a 1st team All-Pac12. Joe wasn’t a starter for Drake - Drake. Averaged just over 20 minutes and about 13ppg. Folks really think he’s a KU caliber starting or high minutes guard??? Love him off the bench for energy and a spark…
-
@DCHawker not at all.
Coincidence Dave has his best game with two attacking guards?
Coincidence we turn them over more?
Coincidence in the second half when Joe played most of the minutes we cut down on turnovers?
Coincidence it was the most we’d got out in transition all year?
You add a freak athlete you reap the rewards when you instill confidence and he knows there is no quick yank due to 1 mistake.
Start nah that’s okay but first guard off the bench absolutely.
-
Joe looked like the player I envisioned when we signed him. An elemental part of Bill’s offense are drives to the hoop. Frank was unstoppable. DD…OMG. You just couldn’t stop him. Marcus tried, and found some success driving the ball, but he certainly could be stuffed. Juando is trying- he hit the game winner against the Clones a while back, and looked pretty decent with that rec room bank shot ( which I personally love) last night, but Juando’s drives look like slow motion when compared to Joe. Joe can go end to end… he is a superior athlete, but he can also make a 3 with his funky jump shot. Just clear the right side out, and that’s easy pickens for Joe. He just plays at a much faster level, and we all saw how the team responded once he came in. Runout after runout. Our missing offense has been found! And the quick hands- the way he took that ball away the Clone and was off to the races? Oh my…that’s just a tasty slice of cherry cheese cake.
-
At the beginning of this year I thought it likely that halfway into the year someone would come out of the blue and become a big contributor. Sometimes I thought it would be KJ. Sometimes Bobby. I’m high on Joe the most now to be that guy.
If Bobby was healthy we would have him and Joe being true “X axis” players… playing out there in 3d space!
Remy is close… just not quite at that level. Maybe his knee problem is just showing.
Dajuan has some speed, but is more about controlled motion, passing, etc.
I think we need a speedster like Joe out there for a big chunk of games. He keeps the pace moving and it is the only way to get to the tempo we need to run at. That control of tempo also helps our defense… bigly!
-
@drgnslayr you had me until “bigly ”
-
@drgnslayr It think speed is the most important element we’ve been missing since Remy got hurt. Juando slows us down. Joe speeds us up. You put them both on the court together, and you have a potential elite offense that can run on anyone.
-
I finally got to watch the game. Some things I saw were that ISU’s offense was really bad. Part of it was KU’s defense, but to force 22 turnovers and only score 61 points is garbage offense.
We also saw something we haven’t seen in awhile and unless I missed it, haven’t seen brought up that I think was a bigger factor than just playing Yesufu extended minutes and that was Self running two lead guards together for most of the game. We haven’t seen much of that recently since Remy hurt his knee against Nevada than anything else. Yesufu had a Christian Braun type game where he shot like crap, but filled the sheets up in other areas and gave positive minutes.
I know I saw people talk about KU’s pace being quicker, but I don’t think it was specifically Yesufu being responsible for that and I think it was just more of KU playing two lead guards like they were at the beginning of the season. I will also say that even though Remy hasn’t scored much this year, I think he was largely responsible for Ochai being to do what he did in the non-confernce because Self was playing two lead guards which opened the floor up more.
Ochai is a 3 and D player, that’s what his skill set is. He’s the most athletic guy on the team, but he can’t create for himself against good defenses so having two lead guards out there opens things up for him.
KJ Adams again had another game with zero defensive rebounds. KJ might be the best low post defender KU has right now, but if you can’t get a defensive rebound, it almost doesn’t matter how a good a defender you are because you’re not ending the other team’s possession. KJ has 9 defensive rebounds in 122 minutes, almost all of those minutes coming at the 5 spot. That’s unacceptable levels of bad and will cost KU a game at some point if he gets extended minutes in crunch time because he’ll give another team multiple opportunities while costing KU possessions. Here’s some other players that have more defensive rebounds than KJ this year, 6-5 Jalen Coleman-Lands, 6-0 Joseph Yesufu has 2 more defensivereboundsin only abiut 20 more minutes, Zach Clemence has more defensive rebiumds despite playing over 50 fewer minutes than KJ, and finally 6-1 Bibby Pettiford has more defensive rebiumds than KJ Adams despite being significantly smaller and playing about 15 fewer total minutes.
To me, the 5 spot minutes should be Dave, Mitch, Jalen, KJ in that order right now. Mitch and Jalen could probably flip depending on situation, but KJ doesn’t do enough things well yet to justify an increase in minutes.
This is the version Dave we need every game. If that’s not the Dave that shows up for a game, then I think Mitch and Jalen need to split most of the minutes at the 5 spot.
Jalen Wilson had a Jalen game and whoever said Jalen should be a point forward, absolutely not. Jalen doesn’t make good enough decisions or have the handles to do that role.
I’m sure there’s other stuff to add, but that’s all I can think of right now.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 I think the two lead guards are why everyone was so pumped early in the year and why the offense was top five early. For a while there we had Harris, Remy, Bobby, and Yes all available to play the 1/2 spots. That was all with Wilson out or struggling to find his spot.
The problem is who do you sit between Ochoa, Braun and Wilson in order to run to little guards together? Because I’m with you that the 5 is reserved for good Dave. If he doesn’t show up, I still think KJ is the best option with a little Mitch if Wilson isn’t able to make up for the lack of rebounding on d.
For me I think we leave the starters as is and then bring in yes off the bench first for whoever between braun or Och is tired or has foul trouble. The goal would be to Use that substitution as a true change of pace and try to run run run when he comes in.
Yes to me just put himself ahead of Remy. He pushes the ball up the floor and forces the pace of the game better than any guard we have. He showed he is able to get by his man with less dribbles and more within the flow of the offense better than Remy. And the defense isn’t even close. Remy has started taking some charges as hos form of defensive pressure but yes was in his mans pocket all night. He makes the team defense better because the pressure he puts on every dribble pick up and pass allow for more deflections all over the court and therefor even more opportunities to run.
The most telling play to me was when yes drove by his man with a quick first step, missed the layup, but had drawn enough help for Dave to fly in for the put back slam. Hopefully, most everyone knows by now that Dave is an elite offensive rebounder and yes being a guy that gets to the rim in one on one situations without needing a screen opens up so much opportunity for Dave to do his thing.
Maybe I’m overreacting based on one good game but the team truly looked different and better with him on the floor.
-
We played better at isu w/2 guards and cb playing D and running the floor. It’s better w/yes and Juan, if yes can do that all the time. We’d have to give up Wilson’s boards probably, depending on what’s working for us or hurting us. I’m not sure about Baylor. They’re not the defensive team of last year. Just solid all over. I think Yes comes off the bench too. Hope Och is well and nobody else got it.
-
2 guards- 2 wings- 1 center. When you play 1 guard- 3 wings-1 center, it bogs down the offense.
-
It’s all apart of the give and take.
Harris does better with a running mate to create. But we also saw that rebounding was a big problem playing 2 guards which Wilson solves most of the time. When Dave rebounds at a high level I think that’s when playing 2 guards is a more viable option but as with any game Good Dave doesn’t always show up. There’s just limitations to both the 2 guards or 3 wings lineup.
-
@drgnslayr said in YESUFU APPRECIATION THREAD:
We’ve had huge debates in here about that over the years. And also how some players get yanked with one mistake, other players goof constantly and don’t get pulled.
I’m thinking back to some huge battles in here… RIP HEM!
Did you catch any of his posts? You might qualify as our next HEM in here. Someone who dare challenge the common thought in here. We need that friction in here! Keep posting!
LOL. A real Che Guevara shout out thank you.
-
Your post shows how important Dave is to this team and how his play impacts absolutely everything!
-
@Jethro only when your 1 guard doesn’t attack and is too slow to beat his man off the dribble.
Tucky plays with the ball in wheeler’s hands with wings around him but he can get by his man.
Same reason I advocated for Yes at the 1. He’s shown a volume shooter 2 at drake yet has all the tools to play pg and distribute well.
-
Yes off the bench early If it’s bad Dave I’m throwing Wilson at the 5. He, och, Braun and yes can rebound just fine.
-
I think since Coach said Remy being out for an extended amount of time for sure Joe has to see the floor a lot more. proved himself well against ISU , I realize that it was just one game but loved the way he played. With Remy out Bobby still not 100 % having Joe and Juan on the floor like they were the tam is jsut to me anyways so much more agressive defensively - -both quick. Not sureh ow many steals they had between them but - He has just GOT TO SEE the floor from here on
-
There is just no real way to change the starters Och, Christy, The Dave, Dajuan and JWill.
-
-
Me likey
