Coach K to retire after 21-22 season
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Wow
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yep just read it. John Scheyer is the leader to replace him - - assistant/former player after this Season. - - Jeff Goodman and multiple sources reporting , and announcement soon
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Considering the situation in Boston right now, Iād be surprised if Duke doesnāt at least inquire about Stevens interest in returning to college.
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ya find of kind of interesting this comes down the same time the hole Stevans thing is going on in Boston. Yet he is replacing Ainge upstairs. Guess it all boils down to if he wants to come back to College Basketball
Kind of Amusing reading the NC boards , them talking about ALL were gonna here ALL Season is about Kās retirement and how he has to have his farewell all year lol. Maybe they need to look in the mirror , All we heard last year was Roys good bye farewell fan fare - his final year - - One poster said GOD hope we donāt do anything for him when they come to Chapel Hill lmao - - ahh the love
Sure gonna be different without Roy this year and K next year Curious how recruiting goes ? - -IF Brad does come back AND he is hired by DUKE I donāt think youāll see much of a drop at all - - if itās Scheyer or whoever itās gonna have to be a wait and see with them - -gonna be interesting for sure
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@jayballer67 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
ya find of kind of interesting this comes down the same time the hole Stevans thing is going on in Boston. Yet he is replacing Ainge upstairs. Guess it all boils down to if he wants to come back to College Basketball
Kind of Amusing reading the NC boards , them talking about ALL were gonna here ALL Season is about Kās retirement and how he has to have his farewell all year lol. Maybe they need to look in the mirror , All we heard last year was Roys good bye farewell fan fare - his final year - - One poster said GOD hope we donāt do anything for him when they come to Chapel Hill lmao - - ahh the love
Sure gonna be different without Roy this year and K next year Curious how recruiting goes ? - -IF Brad does come back AND he is hired by DUKE I donāt think youāll see much of a drop at all - - if itās Scheyer or whoever itās gonna have to be a wait and see with them - -gonna be interesting for sure
It will be scheyer Taken over
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@jayballer67 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
ya find of kind of interesting this comes down the same time the hole Stevans thing is going on in Boston. Yet he is replacing Ainge upstairs. Guess it all boils down to if he wants to come back to College Basketball
Kind of Amusing reading the NC boards , them talking about ALL were gonna here ALL Season is about Kās retirement and how he has to have his farewell all year lol. Maybe they need to look in the mirror , All we heard last year was Roys good bye farewell fan fare - his final year - - One poster said GOD hope we donāt do anything for him when they come to Chapel Hill lmao - - ahh the love
Sure gonna be different without Roy this year and K next year Curious how recruiting goes ? - -IF Brad does come back AND he is hired by DUKE I donāt think youāll see much of a drop at all - - if itās Scheyer or whoever itās gonna have to be a wait and see with them - -gonna be interesting for sure
It will be scheyer Taken over
ya I know - -he is already in place to take over. - -they talked to outside people including talking to Tommy Amaker - -BUT Scheyer will be the associate Coach in waiting and will take over in 2022.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Considering the situation in Boston right now, Iād be surprised if Duke doesnāt at least inquire about Stevens interest in returning to college.
NOBODY wants to coach college over NBA anymore. In both jobs, you are dealing with young kids full of themselves. However, with college, you have to kiss their butts, kiss their parentsā butts, pay them under the table instead of in the open, lose free agents without a financial negotiation, etc.
College basketball is all but deadā¦wait until they start paying these yahoos
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@BigBad said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Considering the situation in Boston right now, Iād be surprised if Duke doesnāt at least inquire about Stevens interest in returning to college.
NOBODY wants to coach college over NBA anymore. In both jobs, you are dealing with young kids full of themselves. However, with college, you have to kiss their butts, kiss their parentsā butts, pay them under the table instead of in the open, lose free agents without a financial negotiation, etc.
College basketball is all but deadā¦wait until they start paying these yahoos
You keep thinking that. Those young players in the NBA have zero power to influence coaching hires. Zion Williamson has zero input on who the Pelicans coach is at this point because heās not at that level of star power yet. The guys with power to influence coaching hires in the NBA are the max contract guys who make All-NBA every year.
In college, of a playerās ego gets too big, theyāre kicked to the curb. Thereās a reason Quentin Grimes and Bryce Thompson didnāt return for second seasons at KU and it was 100% Bill Self kicking them to the curb because of egoās getting too inflated.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 So Adidas money didnāt happen?
How is recruiting going now? Seems Selfās style is to throw interest at any and every player out there. About 90% of these kids donāt care ONE BIT about getting a degree. Fan bases who want it to survive think that paying them will save it.Watching kids develop and grow as basketball players and people is gone.
Donāt get me wrong, Iām still going to watch but if we have roster turnover every year Iāll watch less and less and I wont be alone.
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@BigBad said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 So Adidas money didnāt happen?
How is recruiting going now? Seems Selfās style is to throw interest at any and every player out there. About 90% of these kids donāt care ONE BIT about getting a degree. Fan bases who want it to survive think that paying them will save it.Watching kids develop and grow as basketball players and people is gone.
Donāt get me wrong, Iām still going to watch but if we have roster turnover every year Iāll watch less and less and I wont be alone.
If you think a coach kissing ass in college is a new concept that originated with Adidas/Nike/Under Armour, I canāt help you there. College coaching is a sales job that involves kissing ass because thatās what sales is all about. Once a player is committed, a coach no longer has to kiss anyoneās ass in regards to a player or their family like weāve seen in the past 3 years with Self kicking Grimes and Thompson to curb because he was done kissing ass as soon as those kids arrived on campus.
Bill Self has always done a helluva job developing kids who didnāt arrive in college as NBA prospects into NBA prospects so if a kid doesnāt have the patience to let that system work, then Self and KU donāt need those players.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Damn. Straight.
How many kids now will want to play for Self now that Roy and K (after this year) are gone. Even if itās for one year. We will be a transfer destination for a lot of good players who want to play under an active HOF guy and under the cathedral roof of Allen field house.
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@BeddieKU23 no more brohood?
š„³ Iām anxious to see how this year goes for him. He kinda gave up last year, I thought.
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@Bosthawk said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Damn. Straight.
How many kids now will want to play for Self now that Roy and K (after this year) are gone. Even if itās for one year. We will be a transfer destination for a lot of good players who want to play under an active HOF guy and under the cathedral roof of Allen field house.
I donāt see Self leaning as heavily into the transfer market once the NCAA issues clear up and are in the rearview mirror. Thatās the biggest reason why KUās recruitment is down right now and why Self is putting more effort into transfers.
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K doing a full farewell tour is the most Coach K thing ever.
Man, the UNC dook rivalry just wonāt be the same in 2022-3. Scheyer v. Hubert just doesnāt have the same juice.
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When a legendary coach retires, hiring his replacement from the āfamilyā isnāt always the best move.
Check out this list of ten guys who replaced the legends. This article is almost ten years old, but still timely. (Note the first name on the list.)
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@nwhawkfan totally agree. Itās insane to me neither Duke or UNC reached outside āthe familyā in any meaningful way.
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Just think we can give the new guy his first loss
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@FarmerJayhawk couldnāt agree more! Coach K canāt go quietly like Roy. Partially because Roy is incredibly classy and Coach K is an arrogant, self righteous ego maniac. He just has to have one more time around the sun when he can hear his name constantly even though it will be a distraction for his own players, fans, alumni. Heās a horrific role model and a worse person and I hope that Duke is as bad this year as they were last year to spoil his self centered swan song.
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How much longer does Jim Boeheim hang in there? Does he retire whenever Buddy leaves the program in 1-2 years?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
How much longer does Jim Boeheim hang in there? Does he retire whenever Buddy leaves the program in 1-2 years?
I would have to think Ultimate tops would be 5 at the most. I think him seeing Roy & K retiting might get him to thinking about it even more. I didnāt realize K was 74 yrs old, Bilas was talking about it today on ESPN
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
K doing a full farewell tour is the most Coach K thing ever.
Man, the UNC dook rivalry just wonāt be the same in 2022-3. Scheyer v. Hubert just doesnāt have the same juice.
These programs just might slip with these different Coachās , we already started to see NC slipping some and now I think Duke will drop off somewhat also
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@joeloveshawks I read that as āhearing his name consonantlyā
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
How much longer does Jim Boeheim hang in there?
At least as long as it takes for Coach K to finish his farewell tour. Then he can have the spotlight all to himself when he embarks on his.
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@tis4tim said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Then he can have the spotlight all to himself when he embarks on his.
Soā¦will Boeheim whine twice as much to fill the void?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@nwhawkfan totally agree. Itās insane to me neither Duke or UNC reached outside āthe familyā in any meaningful way.
A lot to think about here.
Firstā¦ It is damn hard to come into a program after a legend. The expectations are crazy and fans will quickly turn on the new coach, especially an outsider.
Secondā¦ It is safer to pick an insider who already knows where the bodies are buried and is willing to keep them buried. Big risk when you bring in an outsiderā¦ things donāt go wellā¦ and upon departure the outsider decides to expose the graveyard.
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@drgnslayr That first one is still what amazes me most about self. As much as I hate Dickie V I think it was him who told bill not to take this job because heād never replace Roy. Instead heās had a more successful career here than Roy himself. We as Kansas fans are very spoiled and we should be careful to remember it. Bill WONT stay forever.
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Itās very hard to replace a legend, whether you are inside or outside the family. Expectations are high. Margins are thin. Every word you say, every interview, every in game decision, every recruit you get (or miss), it is all evaluated against the fantasy of the previous coach. Oh, former coach wouldnāt have done that. Former coach doesnāt lose that game. Former coach closes the deal on that recruit. Former coachā¦ on and on and on.
If Hubert Davis loses 8 games this year, all 8 will be blown up like the end of the world (reminder that UNC went 18-11 this past season). But people will suddenly act as if Roy Williams hadnāt lost a game in his last five years coaching after every UNC loss. Thatās just the nature of replacing a legend.
Same thing will happen at Duke when Coach K leaves, and at Syracuse when Boeheim leaves.
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I wonder if Scheyer will be a good coach. Maybe Duke actually gets better. UVA already was dominating the conference. Duke hadnāt won the ACC in 10 years.
2010 Duke, Maryland
2011 North Carolina
2012 North Carolina
2013 Miami
2014 Virginia
2015 Virginia
2016 North Carolina
2017 North Carolina
2018 Virginia
2019 Virginia, North Carolina
2020 Florida State
2021 Virginia
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After viewing your 10-yr history of the ACC it made me think this might be somewhat of an indicator on which coaching style is most-successfulā¦ defense or offense-oriented.
Itās 5 - 5 comparing Virginia and UNC with both winning a NC. Hard to imagine another two teams to compare where the philosophy is so different.
I know fans like to see offenseā¦ but do they like to see it be just a horse race to the finish line? I get so frustrated when our defense stinks and we canāt stop a team from scoring.
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I think it speaks to building with upperclassmen vs flipping burger boys. You know Roy had 8 McDonalds All Americans over 2018-2020, and he said his team last year was his least talented over? Lol.
For a while it worked when he had less attrition, but you canāt build a return core out of McDs any more, 3 of his 4 from last year are leaving. I think that ship permanently sailed this year. https://www.tarheeltimes.com/basketball/mcdonalds-all-americans.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021ā22_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_menās_basketball_team
I doubt K and Roy like the challenge of the brave new world of the almighty transfer portal.
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@justanotherfan said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Itās very hard to replace a legend, whether you are inside or outside the family. Expectations are high. Margins are thin. Every word you say, every interview, every in game decision, every recruit you get (or miss), it is all evaluated against the fantasy of the previous coach. Oh, former coach wouldnāt have done that. Former coach doesnāt lose that game. Former coach closes the deal on that recruit. Former coachā¦ on and on and on.
Anyone in this situation should, of course, consult Squeaky about whether a mock funeral for the departed coach is a good idea for enhancing his own credā¦
From the Rockford paper:
Frazzled by constant comparisons of Weber to Selfās coaching, recruiting, personality and even his haberdasher, Weber stepped to the podium with a message.
"This is a funeral. Iām going to throw a funeral. Itās the end of Bill Self,ā āā Weber said that night. "Itās over. Thereās no more comparing. Heās gone. No more talking about it. Iāll be honest. Iām fed up with it.āā
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We really need to have laugh emojis in here. Damnā¦ you gave me a smile that will carry me all through the weekend! Thank you!
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Thank you! I wanted to post what you posted but thought people are sick of me preaching the same old thing.
I donāt see much of a future for ārevolving doorā teamsā¦ like Calipariās teams. Heckā¦ seems to not even have the turnover like he once did but Iām not sure about that. I think his sales pitch of āIām the guy to get you to the leagueā has largely worn off as players and their parents are wiser.
To me it seems like every year less skilled underclassmen are trying to jump to the league. Maybe if they start receiving more $ while in college, that will help keep some of them in school longer.
The idea that a kid dominating in HS will be an NBA-quality player after a year in college is just plain nuts, except for the very few exceptions.
This all points back to my approach of going after assistant coaches that are masters in development and looking for development players.
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Defense oriented teams are going to be less volatile because defense is something you can make work, more or less, regardless of personnel, especially in high school and to some degree college.
Defense first works best in middle school and high school because the talent level of offensive players is generally not high enough to completely upend what you are doing defensively. Even in college, most players canāt just overwhelm you with individual offensive skill. Thatās why you see so many defense first coaches that are successful at the collegiate level. If you can coach defense in high school and college, you have a good baseline for a winning team.
But that introduces something most wonāt admit - the majority of the winningest college coaches are poor offensive coaches. Thatās why so few college coaches can succeed in the NBA. They do not have the game planning and creative chops to create something new when the defense takes away their first couple of options.
Recall Roy Williamsā last championship team. They ranked 100th in 2P FG%, 154th in 3P%, and 176th in FT%. They were an average or worse shooting team. The only reason they scored at an above average rate is because they led the country in offensive rebounding, which meant they attempted the 4th most shots in the country. They were a pedestrian offensive team that beat people on the glass and was solid defensively (mostly owing to the fact that they were also a top 25 defensive rebounding team). That is a winning formula in college.
Virginia is consistently a very efficient (but slow) offensive team that is among the top 10 in defense (usually top 5). You can do that without NBA talent, and as the talent in D1 basketball has fallen (and will continue to fall), a really good defensive team will be more consistent because there will be fewer and fewer truly dynamic offensive players in the college game.
Look around college hoops. How many truly great offensive players were there? Not many. Probably fewer than 15. And for many of those guys, they were either surrounded by below average talent, or they were coached by a below average coach.
A few months ago we were debating why Trae Young didnāt have as much of a positive effect on OU as Cade Cunningham did on OSU. One thing I did not note, that I realized as I have been watching the NBA playoffs is that Trae Young also benefits from having more talented teammates surrounding him. Having great shooters and lob catchers on the floor with him elevates his offensive game, and allows him to elevate the skills of his teammates. In college, Trae Young wasnāt surrounded by multiple deadly shooters that could space the floor. Watching him with Atlanta, itās clear they have done a great job of getting him those types of teammates. That level of offensive talent doesnāt exist on any college team, so focusing on defense at the collegiate level makes sense.
College is also a lousy place to develop for the NBA, honestly. The teammates usually arenāt good enough. The coaching philosophy is different. About the only benefit is that you play a full season with quite a bit of structure and routine, which can be helpful if a player has never had that in their development. I think thatās why we will see the most NBA ready talent moving towards the GLeague and other development paths as things continue to progress.
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@justanotherfan said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
In college, Trae Young wasnāt surrounded by multiple deadly shooters that could space the floor.
We talked about that a lot! Including comparing Trae to the early Nate Archibald years in KC where he could have had even more assists had other players been able to catch and shoot, and more points himself if his team had significant other threats.
At OU, Trae got the rep of ball hog but the reality was that he seemed better shooting at a high rate, even if out of control, than the guys fumbling his passes or not being able to finish.
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@justanotherfan Hereās the issue with taking an approach like Virginiaās. Because of their slow pace, it leaves them very vulnerable to upsets in in the NCAA Tournament and theyāve only made it past the 1st weekend 3 times under Bennett in 11 years. His system works great in the regular season, but doesnāt lend itself to March success because their margin of error is so much smaller than other top teams.
This is also part of Selfās issues in March as well because he tends to prefer a slower tempo with fewer possessions in a game that can keep less talented opponents hanging around. Selfās more successful tournament teams tend to be the ones that played at a faster tempo and created more possessions for KU to exploit KUās talent advantage over inferior opponents.
Top college teams going forward need to be uptempo teams that are above average defensively to exploit their talent advantages.
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@mayjay did he pass?
I must have been in the rr.š„“ I do remember dtae āDāing him up the 2 game.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 right? Like Wilt wasnāt courted?
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@Marco said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 right? Like Wilt wasnāt courted?
Different eras. I guarantee Wilt was paid to come to KU, but it wasnāt Nike or Adidas paying to funnel him to KU.
Coach K and Royās retirements will not see the needle move recruiting for KU because the people funneling players to Duke and UNC work for Nike and those bagmen will continue funneling players to Nike schools, which KU is not. Adidas bagmen are not going to funnel elite talent to KU again until the IARP ruling is handed down and we know what KUās punishment will be.
The down turn in KUās recruiting happened to begin with the 2019 class which lines up with when the accusations against KU first started popping up. Since then, only 3 top 50 players have committed to KU, and one of those players is already gone.
KU will not have a single 5 star recruit on the roster next year and that has nothing to do with Duke, UNC, or Kentuckyās recruiting. The NCAA investigation is whatās impacting KU more than anything else right now will continue to until a verdict is handed down.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
The NCAA investigation is whatās impacting KU more than anything else right now will continue to until a verdict is handed down.
Is that because top shelf talent is shying away from Kansas or is it because Self and crew finally realize it just isnāt worth it recruiting most of those ābasket cases?ā
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@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
The NCAA investigation is whatās impacting KU more than anything else right now will continue to until a verdict is handed down.
Is that because top shelf talent is shying away from Kansas or is it because Self and crew finally realize it just isnāt worth it recruiting most of those ābasket cases?ā
Top talent isnāt coming to KU right now. In the 2021 recruiting class, KU offered 15 of the top 30 players in the 247 rankings. In 2020, KU offered 16 of the top 30 players so itās not a matter of Self no longer pursuing those kids because he definitely still is, theyāre just not coming to KU right now largely because of the pending sanctions.
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To be honestā¦ Iām glad.
Iād like someone to study our past 10 years and from all the various situations weāve been inā¦ how much of the trouble came from 5-star recruits, versus the rest of the pack?
Do you know?
Iām pretty sure this info right here will change some minds about landing top tier.
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Party poppers and streamers!
Time for the media darling and god to go the fuck awayā¦ And stay there.
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@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
To be honestā¦ Iām glad.
Iād like someone to study our past 10 years and from all the various situations weāve been inā¦ how much of the trouble came from 5-star recruits, versus the rest of the pack?
Do you know?
Iām pretty sure this info right here will change some minds about landing top tier.
The biggest issues have come from two players, Cheick Diallo and Silvio DeSousa. Both are international players from relatively poor countries that immigrated to the U.S. and lived with guardians or essentially a foster family from their same nation.
The Billy Preston and Josh Selby situations are so common that Iām not really worried about KU going after those kids. Kids in a similar situation to Diallo and DeSousa are who I would steer clear from in recruiting.
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Yepā¦ and now I forgot the other guyās nameā¦ big man from Chicago. He zeroād out for us, too.
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@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Yepā¦ and now I forgot the other guyās nameā¦ big man from Chicago. He zeroād out for us, too.
Cliff Alexander and he didnāt zero out for KU. He was coming on really strong at the end of his freshman season and seemed pretty intent on coming back at the time for a second season.
His situation is also why Iām not overly concerned about KU recruiting American kids who are being guided by agents and parents. We all know that his mom took money, but because she was advised on how to do so, the NCAA couldnāt prove anything because of how restricted they are when it comes to accessing financial information.
The movie Blue Chips is pretty good at showing how that process works except instead of coaches and boosters cutting deals like it was back then, itās the runners for the apparel companies doing it now.
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@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Yepā¦ and now I forgot the other guyās nameā¦ big man from Chicago. He zeroād out for us, too.
With NIL the Cliff situation wouldāve been above board most likely, unless they do some weird restriction to only group licensing. And Iāll be honest that whole cycle was unbelievably dirty at the top holy crap. The Jones/Okafor/Cliff love triangle was WILD.
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@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
The NCAA investigation is whatās impacting KU more than anything else right now will continue to until a verdict is handed down.
Is that because top shelf talent is shying away from Kansas or is it because Self and crew finally realize it just isnāt worth it recruiting most of those ābasket cases?ā
Looking at the visit schedule this month. They are getting VERY aggressive with top talent now. KU always has great visits so given that nobody has been able to do them in 15 months, strike fast and hard.
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All of these are interesting stories. What I care about is how much did they produce for us on the court? Especially versus what they cost us in dramaā¦ taking attention away from the game itself. At least we got a return out of Jackson and Wiggins. And once they start becoming valuable to us they are gone and we start from scratch. I agree with the case that perhaps having one of these guys fill in a role we wonāt have otherwise could potentially put us over the top for a NC. At least that is an argument that can be made with some clear path.
How much time is our coaching staff wasting away recruiting top tier? And when we donāt score one or two? Time might have been better spent digging deeper in the pool for a rough cut diamond with more potential and will be around longer. Or how about a 3 or 4-star guy who fits nicely and will be around longer? This is one of the classic discussions held in here and as time goes by I tend to think the recruiting of top tier talent is a bad decision.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@drgnslayr said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Yepā¦ and now I forgot the other guyās nameā¦ big man from Chicago. He zeroād out for us, too.
With NIL the Cliff situation wouldāve been above board most likely, unless they do some weird restriction to only group licensing. And Iāll be honest that whole cycle was unbelievably dirty at the top holy crap. The Jones/Okafor/Cliff love triangle was WILD.
You know, honest question here. I really thought that Alexander was going to be a star, and so did everyone else. And itās not like be played against non-competition in Chicago. What, just a bad dude or what? And what happened to him?
