KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.
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Why do we have to keep losing to K-State in the dumbest most painful ways? I swear that game gave me depression.
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@kjayhawks said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
Just kept KSU ncaa hope alive and prob lost a 1 seed. KSU has better guards than we do by a long ways Nowell embarrassed us last season and Perry this season.
KSU isn’t making the tournament and KU already didn’t have a 1 seed resume.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@bskeet said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
I don’t think this team is as bad as these losses suggest. I’ve watched them and I’m sick of the officiating in some of these.
Not just us. If anyone watched the Purdue /Wisconsin it was also poorly called
This team sucks ass in true road games this year. 2-4 in true road games and easily could be 1-5 had Indiana not shit the bed down the stretch. Based on current NET rankings, KU has lost to 11, 67, 83, and 144 and our 2 wins are over the teams currently ranked 103 and 139. KU is now 2-3 overall against the bottom 4 teams in the Big 12 in the NET rankings and 1-3 on the road.
The remaining true road games for KU are against teams currently ranked 1, 15, 32, and 33 in the NET.
Boy there is hope there huh -I agree with you -this team will not do squat if they can’t figure out how to play on the road -and soon
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if they won the right games I think they did pending on who lost. Right now they have 2 wins vs number 1 seeds. If not for an embarrassing loss in Morgantown and tonight.
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Kevin had to have help getting on the bus after missing it 17 times in a row. Lol
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@kjayhawks said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
Kevin had to have help getting on the bus after missing it 17 times in a row. Lol
brutal, lol
I thought this was a post about the state of his knees, then it took a turn.
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@approxinfinity trying to lighten my own mood, never acceptable to lose to KSU in my mind. Don’t care if we played with 3 players.
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@kjayhawks sure sure, i lighten my mood by virtue signaling about our teams heart. We all have our healing rituals
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@kjayhawks said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 if they won the right games I think they did pending on who lost. Right now they have 2 wins vs number 1 seeds. If not for an embarrassing loss in Morgantown and tonight.
Do you really think this team is winning enough road games this year to get on the 1 line? The NCAA uses the NET rankings as the biggest determining factor in seeding. KU is going to be a 2 or 3 seed this year. The best KU can do now is 3-3 against the bottom feeders of the Big 12 this year. Yes, all the top teams are flawed this year, but KU’s flaws are enough to keep them off the one line when you can’t beat 3 of the bottom 4 teams in your league on the road. That’s what mid pack teams do.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if they win tonight arguably, everyone has bad losses this season. Doesn’t matter now, I honestly think we get bounced first round as a 3 seed. Highlight this when it happens.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if we beat Tech, OU, Baylor, and Houston we’ll be a 1.
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I’m not coming down on our guys because it was obvious they were exhausted.
This is a game we might have won if Zach was available.
Come on… Kevin 44 min, KJ 43 min (fouled out)… Johnny tired with 38 and 4 fouls.
This is our season… and the difference between good and great is pulling Zach off redshirt.
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What makes you think Zach is so good and where are you putting him?
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@kjayhawks said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 if they win tonight arguably, everyone has bad losses this season. Doesn’t matter now, I honestly think we get bounced first round as a 3 seed. Highlight this when it happens.
Arizona is the only other team in the top 20 of the NET to have a loss against a sub 100 team, so no, not every team have bad losses on par with the WVU loss.
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He doesn’t have to be great… if he can hold his own for 10 minutes a game that might be enough.
We just need another option.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 if we beat Tech, OU, Baylor, and Houston we’ll be a 1.
Does anyone here seriously believe KU can go 5-0 in those games? Or even have a winning record in those 5 games?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 if we beat Tech, OU, Baylor, and Houston we’ll be a 1.
Does anyone here seriously believe KU can go 5-0 in those games? Or even have a winning record in those 5 games?
I sure as hell won’t rule it out.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 if we beat Tech, OU, Baylor, and Houston we’ll be a 1.
Does anyone here seriously believe KU can go 5-0 in those games? Or even have a winning record in those 5 games?
I sure as hell won’t rule it out.
What has this team done this season to make you think they can win the 4 of those games that are on the road?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I sure as hell won’t rule it out.
For serious, we were so, so, so bad tonight and we won’t replicate that again. And those other teams will lose some weird ones too. It’s just too early. My honest opinion is the Big 12 (and really all of college hoops) is pretty bad and making any kind of concrete predictions is foolhardy.
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Ugh, this team.
Been away for almost a month, so haven’t had much time to chime in.
First a question…do the refs only go to the monitor in the last two minutes? I didn’t keep track, but seems like they randomly choose when to go. Maddening.
Random thoughts from the last month:
— nice to see Furphy stepping up. Sweet stroke. Not a knock on the freshman, but he has more than a few limitations. Not sure why others are sensing a lottery departure. I’d hope by year two he can learn to be Wilson-esque with his dribble. If he could rebound like Wilson that’d be awesome. Strength will help.
— The sheep lovers sure took us out of our game tonight. Barely any normal things happened on offense. Sloppy and awkward offense. Shocked Self couldn’t fix it.
— McCullar is so bad at the rim (sorry Approx).
— Hunter may have the softest touch I can recall in my KU watching days. I stopped being surprised that his zany shots go in.
— Are teams figuring out how to shut down KJ?
— Hey, if Elmarko can be one good, one bad play, I’d take it. Improvement. He had a nice drive today.
— This is a weird year for Self. I’m not sure how to define it.
— I don’t really watch any other teams play, but I dunno how we will be seeded. I feel like a 1 seed has gone out the window already. 3 or maybe even a 4 seed possible this year?
— Sheep lover fans are an embarrassment.
— I wonder what would have happened if we had played McDowell and not Timbermiss all year.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I sure as hell won’t rule it out.
For serious, we were so, so, so bad tonight and we won’t replicate that again. And those other teams will lose some weird ones too. It’s just too early. My honest opinion is the Big 12 (and really all of college hoops) is pretty bad and making any kind of concrete predictions is foolhardy.
We’re more than halfway through Big 12 play, it’s not early anymore. KU was bad again tonight, and you say KU won’t replicate that, but they’ve replicated that 5 times now and only won one of those games and that was the Indiana game. This team has played like shit on the road this year and that’s happened in 5 of their 6 road games. That’s not an exception at this point, that’s what this team is and the OSU game in Stillwater is the exception.
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I got say the loss feels twice as bad this morning Bill Self getting out coached consistently by Tang and KSU. Not a good look for our program and a very dark day for jayhawk nation
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Hunter played well especially having two very athletic forwards to contend with and Juan defended and played well also. KJ played well with assists and steals and he will not get a lot of boards against a zone. He shot 50% but missed at least two point blank shots but 13 points isn’t poor by any means. Hunter has made one of his last eighteen threes. Perry scored 23 after the break on some are you kidding me shots and they hit something like 13 out of 15 from the line to hold us off late. No bench again and as we know by now no starter can have an off night or else. Not bad luck just reality.
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@Zabudda you could argue that we ended up With 2 off nights from starters. Kevin missed so many open looks from 3 different areas. Layups, 3s and free throw. Furphy also looked lost most the the game. The difference to me is in the offensive glass, we gave them two or 3 chances too often. That and them making quite a few more 3s than us is the killer on the stat sheet. To be honest if they don’t have 17 turnovers, they win by 20 plus. They were the better team and coach last night again. We will have to get used to KSU being better in basketball because it’s coming very soon.
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You say the quiet parts out loud.
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2 days after last game against a top ten team and riding the starters into OT in the Octotang of Dumb…. Classic Bill! Combat training.
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To me, this loss is on two players. The first is obvious. This just wasn’t Kev’s game. I feel like he owes Juan an apology or something because Juan certainly tried to win that game for us multiple times down the stretch and the team, particularly Kev, just kept letting him down. The free throws are the biggest issue (side note: is there a lane violation on every one of Kev’s free throws or is that just me?). But he also blew some lay ups, turned it over in critical moments and maybe most egregiously lost Perry for the dagger three that we were never coming back from. I’m sure he’s tired, hurt, playing too many minutes, etc. but he’s our super senior, player of the year candidate, and these are the kinds of things that are asked of leaders at KU.
Speaking of player of the year candidates… the second player I blame this loss on is Hunter. That may seem odd considering he had a double double and led the team in scoring on a night we didn’t really score the ball that well for stretches. And I’ve said this elsewhere but it just seems to me that Hunter doesn’t COMPETE at the same level of the rest of the team sometimes. He has the skills and the size, but for me, I still question his toughness. Yes, KSU was literally hanging all over him all game and he (and kev) get fouled almost every time they try to score but again, that is what you sign up for when you say you want to lead a Jayhawk team to a championship. The biggest issue to me is the boards. I know he had 10+ but I still feel like when we NEED a board, he’s not going to go get one. He collects the ones that come to his admittedly very large area, but I’ve yet to see him out compete another guy for a big rebound.
Juan and KJ are competing. Their heart is on the floor every game. Furphy was due for an off game and is still just a freshman who joined the team rather late so he gets a pass on this one. He also had a couple of calls go against him and another couple mistakes that are just going to happen to freshmen in a game like that. Kev is trying but maybe too hard. But to me Hunter is just going to get his and it may contribute to a win or might not. To be clear, he’s not playing selfishly or anything. He’s a good passer and seems to fit in and not demand the ball all the time or anything, but to me, he doesn’t make winning plays the way Juan and KJ do.
Still think this team has a chance to get hot and/or lucky in March and make a final four and then who knows what happens but it is clear they are also extremely capable of getting bounced round 1 or 2 and I’m not sure their is much they can do between now and then to make me feel any different.
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@benshawks08 I hate the too many minutes argument, Perry led his team to victory averaging the highest minutes in the conference. At point is just as simple as they are tougher and wanted it more.
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@kjayhawks Tang didn’t outcoach Bill. The wildcats game plan was to mug KU every time down the court while the refs only called it one way. The leg bar that kid put on KJ when tripping him up was pretty egregious- flagrant 1 type stuff that didn’t get called. If the refs clean up the game coaching could be seen, but that was a rock fight.
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@kjayhawks This game had worried me since UCF because that was when it became clear to me that this team doesn’t always want it more than the other team. And I knew of ALL the games, this one would be incredibly difficult to want it as much as KSU. I knew KSU would play harder than our guys and that feeling kinda sucked. But here we are. When they want it they can be great so maybe that will be enough for a couple of weekends in March. But those first two games are going to scare me because I’m afraid they’ll think they can coast when really what they need to do is grind. I imagine it is driving Self (and Juan) crazy that this team still hasn’t figured out how to grind out a win.
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@dylans said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@kjayhawks Tang didn’t outcoach Bill. The wildcats game plan was to mug KU every time down the court while the refs only called it one way. The leg bar that kid put on KJ when tripping him up was pretty egregious- flagrant 1 type stuff that didn’t get called. If the refs clean up the game coaching could be seen, but that was a rock fight.
I was watching without sound so I didn’t hear any of the commentary around the KJ take down or the late review where it looked clear to me Kev got the ole “hook and hold” that was already called a flagrant earlier. Did Bilas talk about it?
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@dylans the problem for me is that Tang so far in his KSU career has overachieved for the most part. At this point he is doing more with less than Self as much as it pains me to say. I think they have a great shot at sweeping us this season. I hate saying but it’s factual that is Ochai doesn’t get a steal to be creighton in the round of 32 in 2022 we all want Bill Self gone as our head coach. He underachieves 80% of the time in the postseason. It stinks but it’s a hard truth at this point. The only thing we have is that we get a favorable road in March and make something happen.
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@kjayhawks when you are a one seed about every year by overachieving in the regular season it makes it impossible to reach fans unreasonable expectations in the post season. Calling for Bill’s head says more about those crybaby entitled piece of shit fans than it does Self.
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@kjayhawks I’m not sure I’d go that far. Certainly not a “hard truth.” It is very hard NOT to underachieve when you are a 1 seed EVERY YEAR. I think it might be more accurate that he overachieves in the regular season. There are maybe a handful of coaches in HISTORY that have had more success in March than Bill Self.
And while I had my doubts about this game, I have very few about when they come to the Phog… KU will crush KSU when they come to town.
You can pick one play in almost every championship team’s run that could have changed everything.
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@dylans @benshawks08 maybe I’m off base but I’m tired of getting embarrassed by KSU and it it’s year 2 of Tang era. If they start getting some better recruits we are in deep trouble IMO. It will ever be acceptable to me regardless of the circumstances to lose to that team. I will never be convinced otherwise right or wrong. Do better period
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@kjayhawks Oh I’m in full agreement about needing to beat KSU 2 or 3 times EVERY year. It was just the underachieving in March stuff I don’t buy.
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@kjayhawks man we’ve won 80% of our games at the octagon of room and Bill has as many titles as anyone in the sport right now.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if we shoot 40/20 and an opponent that physical only gets called for 14 fouls again anyone is royally screwed
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m pretty sure we have now lost either 5 of 10 or 5 of 11 in that building. I’m a grumpy a$$hole today for sure, I won’t deny it but being up til 11 when I get up at 4 watching a loss does that to me lol.
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These guys are coming off a tough Saturday battle and had no business playing 40+ minutes and we expect a win. I could already see fatigue before halftime.
It was made worse by being at the Kittydome. Of course, they had more energy!
This Kitty team sucks. I’ll be surprised if we don’t thrash them by 30 in our building.
Beyond just being tired… this team is quickly earning the reputation of not being a road team. Period.
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Didn’t we in past seasons get beat each time we went to OSU?
Time for a team meeting to set their mark on the season. Schedules are what we have to deal with. No other top 10 team had to play a Saturday/Monday game. I believe that the first 6 minutes of non-stop play exhausted our players more than they would admit. Sloppy, moving too fast, turns, etc. was mentally defeating, because of what they had accomplished last time they were on the court.
I accept that we are where we are and know that we have all been here before in prior seasons. None of us can change one another’s mind about whether we are going to be a 1, 2, or 3 seed and what needs to be done to just win as many as they can and show what they got. I may seem as though I am wishy washy, but as a true fan I support each and every effort, no matter how it ends. Sure I am disappointed about last night, but it does not materially affect the way I, as a fan, love my #Jayhawks. Think how blessed we have been and what a whole lot of other teams DREAM of being. One can’t lose the fact that life has brought perils all along the way, and the way you deal with adversity shows inner strength. I, recently, have missed a couple chats dealing with some health issues. Really, losing last night is miniscule to what people are going through.
Just my 2 Cents. #RCJH
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KState entered 1-1 after a foul in OT.
Anyone who watched the physicality and intensity knows it was not that kind of game.
It simply wasn’t called consistently.
Plus, didn’t help that the guys were gassed. Bill didn’t sub as much as he should have, in retrospect (and appears to have lost some confidence in the bench).
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I can’t wait for the day we have a scoring PG again. I know everyone loves Juan but the truth is he limits us so much. I just don’t see whats so great. He did take a nice charge though. That was one thing I had thought was lacking this year, didn’t see many people taking charges like in prior years. KM was good for taking 3-4 per game last year it felt like, maybe he is too big time now?
Praying our next PG is in the mold of a Mason, Graham, Dotson type.
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@RockChalkinTexas said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
I believe that the first 6 minutes of non-stop play exhausted our players more than they would admit.
Yes. More evidence of how the officials were selective throughout the game.
When they finally blew the whistle, it was a traveling call on the perimeter. I was happy, but that was just weird considering all the contact in the previous 6 minutes. It was NOT foul-free.
And don’t get me started on how they look closely at Kev’s foot on the sideline, but not the KSU players crossing the free-throw lane…
Part III really am beginning to feel like the refs have something against Kev. He gets scrutinized unlike others and gets hammered and gets no calls.
This is a fairly recent thing because he was getting calls fairly consistently in the first 10 or so games… If I recall correctly (and haven’t looked at the stats to verify), he was going to the line frequently. Now he goes to the line maybe 1 or 2 times a game.
He’s still driving and still drawing contact, but not getting calls. What changed?
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@RockkChalkk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
I can’t wait for the day we have a scoring PG again. I know everyone loves Juan but the truth is he limits us so much. I just don’t see whats so great. He did take a nice charge though. That was one thing I had thought was lacking this year, didn’t see many people taking charges like in prior years. KM was good for taking 3-4 per game last year it felt like, maybe he is too big time now?
Praying our next PG is in the mold of a Mason, Graham, Dotson type.
15/8 with a couple of BIG time steals in key moments. Got a few buckets when we really needed them. Had a few possessions where he stuck to Perry like glue (almost all of that dude’s points came after a switch to get Juan off of him). This is what Juan needs to be. He wasn’t the problem last night for sure. I’m not going to complain anytime Juan gets more that 6 shots in a game. As long as he’s at least that aggressive and keeps up the D and limits his turnovers, he is what we need at point guard with a guy like Hunter etc.
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@benshawks08 Juan was great outside of a few plays IMO. I called him out for going under a few screens but was fine with most of it.
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@RockkChalkk While I agree I’m ready for a stud scoring pg I will defend DeJuan as he was good last night
15/8 with 3 turnovers in that environment with Kevin, KJ and Furphy all unable to throw it in the ocean was a step up performance when guys were struggling
I always call out DeJuan but last night that L isn’t even close to being on him. Kev was atrocious and needs to heal up. I’d rather lose the big 12 and win the big 12 tourney and go to a final four than Kev pushes to play to win the regular season only to be broken down in March
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I thought Juan would carry us to victory down the stretch. It felt that way. He did well and was confident , did not shy away from making big plays.
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Running clock walking the ball up the court down 4 with 3 to go rubs me the wrong way. But I like Harris. He is very steady and does a good job of setting his teammates up for success. Not to be undervalued, his defense is fantastic as well.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Octagon of Tang Doom Game Chat.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I sure as hell won’t rule it out.
For serious, we were so, so, so bad tonight and we won’t replicate that again. And those other teams will lose some weird ones too. It’s just too early. My honest opinion is the Big 12 (and really all of college hoops) is pretty bad and making any kind of concrete predictions is foolhardy.
We’re more than halfway through Big 12 play, it’s not early anymore. KU was bad again tonight, and you say KU won’t replicate that, but they’ve replicated that 5 times now and only won one of those games and that was the Indiana game. This team has played like shit on the road this year and that’s happened in 5 of their 6 road games. That’s not an exception at this point, that’s what this team is and the OSU game in Stillwater is the exception.
Seems to be a spot on assessment. What has traditionally characterized KU teams, esp. during the HCBS era, is winning B12 road games. Not this year. And, losing to bottom half of conference teams.
Perhaps things could change, but as @Texas-Hawk-10 notes, but the evidence indicates we are who we are at this point. There is a real prospect that we could go from preseason #1 to most losses in a season during Self’s tenure. No risk of not making the tournament, but unless there is some remarkable turnaround, we won’t be close to a #1 seed. More likely a 3-4.
We’ve shown we can beat anyone, esp. this year as there don’t seem to be any dominant teams. But, we’ve also shown we can be beaten by mediocre teams - and not just on a night when the opponent does something ridiculous. Very thin margin.
Could easily lose a 1st round game to a #13 or 14 seed, but also go on a 3-4 game run…
