The 5 spot
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@jayballer67 It’s in large part because we only had two guys in that starting line-up even interested in/capable of scoring much. It was not a good/sustainable line-up at all. Doubt we see it again.
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I think Udeh wins the 5 mystery. I hope he gets 20+ min from here on out.
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@BShark said in The 5 spot:
@jayballer67 It’s in large part because we only had two guys in that starting line-up even interested in/capable of scoring much. It was not a good/sustainable line-up at all. Doubt we see it again.
very true & hopefully not
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@drgnslayr saw lots of excitement in your post and i concur. We have a wealth of talent! Sky is the limit!
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@BShark The starting lineup was Bill’s defensive dream and we got down 15 to a D2 school
The lineup only works if Juan looks to score. I won’t say Bill lied but all we’ve heard is talk about Juan taking a huge step offensively to lead the team. He doesn’t drive (reason he shoots such few free throws) and if he can’t knock down a three he’s offensively just a hockey assist guy.
Juan can’t score, kj can’t score, udeh can’t score so it leaves Wilson and McCullar to chuck and they were off to start. Pair that with atrocious defense and you get down quick.
Juan not even looking to score and Joe being atrocious were the two biggest takeaways from that game to me.
Grady, Wilson and McCullars gotta score 15-20 a piece to carry us offensively.
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@drgnslayr to name a few post threats
Duke - 7-1’ Lively Tenn - 7-1 (don’t know his name) Indiana - 6-9 trace Jackson Kentucky - Oscar Baylor - has 3-4 6-8 to 7’ athletic bigs
Pretty much any team you’d have to beat to win a natty
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@kuballin10 Yeah I agree with this completely that line-up simply can not score. Gradey needs to start going forward. You can’t have 3 non-offensive players in the game at once and 2 is pushing it.
I am hoping MJ proves good enough to take those minutes from Joe who was playing back-up off ball roles. Bobby is clearly the back-up guard and he looked really nice. He just needs to look to score more and he can be a great player. I don’t think it’s outside his dna like Dajuan I think it boils down to what the staff asks him to do.
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I was surprised by how small Udeh is. Zuby is the only big that physically looks the part. Clemence can stretch the floor. KJ is a tweener with unreal energy. I’m curious to see how this plays out.
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@dylans Udeh looked like a very large man live.
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anyone know if we’ve pressed that much in a preseason game before? Was it just a result of being way down or an actual glimpse at a possible strategy this year? Normally the bill self full court defense is just straight man to man pick up your guy on the inbounds but I saw Juan and jalen working traps and trying to really disrupt, leaving a ball hawk like McCullar to get in passing lanes. Will be interesting to see if self pulls that out again or goes back to his normal stuff.
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@Kcmatt7 Not sure if that’s a rebuttal or just you dropping that you went to the game. Either way - I had never seen him until the game. I was expecting a large bruiser McCormack type, not a Darren Hancock 6’6” post type. That’s all not disparaging the guy.
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@benshawks08 said in The 5 spot:
anyone know if we’ve pressed that much in a preseason game before? Was it just a result of being way down or an actual glimpse at a possible strategy this year? Normally the bill self full court defense is just straight man to man pick up your guy on the inbounds but I saw Juan and jalen working traps and trying to really disrupt, leaving a ball hawk like McCullar to get in passing lanes. Will be interesting to see if self pulls that out again or goes back to his normal stuff.
Yup, that was seemingly new territory for Self. Pressing really hasn’t been part of his strategy over the years. If i were to guess i’d say he dabbles in pressing a bit more this year, given our potential scoring issues. He likely wants to create his “havoc” and some turnovers for easier buckets.
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@dylans said in The 5 spot:
@Kcmatt7 Not sure if that’s a rebuttal or just you dropping that you went to the game. Either way - I had never seen him until the game. I was expecting a large bruiser McCormack type, not a Darren Hancock 6’6” post type. That’s all not disparaging the guy.
Hmm, not sure we were looking at the same guy. Seemed pretty big to me. For sure not a Hancock 6-6 type to my old eyeballs. Not well defined and muscular yet. true.
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@rockchalkjayhawk short. I meant he is short. I was expecting more of a true 5. Just had the wrong expectations, that’s all. He’s not skinny or weak. Not super explosive like Hancock - bad example. Doesn’t have t-Rex arms. First impression after the recruiting hype - He just appears shorter than I expected for a “bruising” post. Not a true 5 type. It’s might be better or worse depending on matchup.
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@Kcmatt7 yeah he’s tall and lanky maybe that’s what the other poster meant (he looked skinny but said small). He’s a legit 6-10/6-11 guy I think
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@rockchalkjayhawk this year he will do it more than any year however, his talk down in Houston he explained his philosophy, “no easy baskets ever”.
He thus hates pressing because if beaten correctly a press often ends in a layup or dunk and isn’t worth the risk compared to potentially getting a steal.
I agree with him here but in todays game you gotta defend the three point line and not just the rim
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I need to watch more apparently. Just saw about half of the first half. Udeh is 6’10”? but I thought he looked 6’6” maybe I had him confused with another player. Lots of new faces.
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Udeh is quite tall, probably tallest on the team so I do think you were thinking of someone else @dylans
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@BShark must have them confused. Feed sucked here. Hard to tell the new guys apart - don’t know their tendencies/movement styles yet.
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@dylans said in The 5 spot:
I need to watch more apparently. Just saw about half of the first half. Udeh is 6’10”? but I thought he looked 6’6” maybe I had him confused with another player. Lots of new faces.
You might be thinking of Zuby Ejiofor who is listed at 6-9, 240 on KU’s roster.
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@dylans said in The 5 spot:
@BShark must have them confused. Feed sucked here. Hard to tell the new guys apart - don’t know their tendencies/movement styles yet.
Yup. i got confused with a few faces. Didn’t really know Udeh vs Zuby going in.
Udeh looks like a 40 year old!
And I was like, who’s that guy with the mini fro? Cuffe!
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Watching UNC now. Kinda glad we didn’t get Nance. He’s kind of a stiff
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Power rankings after last night:
- Udeh
- KJ
- Zach
- Zuby
Udeh just provides this team with exactly what they need. A rim running big man who provides rim protection. He ran the floor like Tshiebwe last night. I was thoroughly impressed.
KJ still let’s us play a style of run run run. He rebounded well last night. Now if he can just be a little more of an offensive threat that’d be nice. He should be the guy tearing up the zone. Get it to him at the FT line and then he just goes over the top of the zone… Maybe next season.
Zach didn’t do much yesterday. Didn’t get a chance to do much, but it is clear to me he isn’t going to get much run. Not when you have three Adonis-like dudes you’re competing against.
Zuby also got like no run. The only reason Zach ranks ahead is because if he isn’t going to get experience now, I guess I’d rather have the Sophomore in the game. I’d like to see Zuby get 10-15 one of these games coming up.
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“I liked the matchup with KJ, because we were gonna sag on him,” Crutchfield said. “We could give help with his man. But when the big fella’s out there, I mean, it’s a different story.”
Our eyes did not lie.
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@BShark hopefully bill’s espn+ feed was better than most.
It’s obvious we are a better team with Udeh. When KJ and Juan are out there then it’s horrible spacing because the D can sag off those guys and clog the lane. Wilson and McCullar can’t drive as well because the D doesn’t honor a kick out to 2 players.
Udeh needs 25-28 mpg with kj filling in the rest. Bill has that long, athletic rim runner who will learn to block shots better paired with some guard who I think can shoot it (Gradey and Wilson). McCullar will come around and if Bobby can shoot 32-33% then we are going to be dangerous!
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@kuballin10 Something else I am monitoring is the back-up wing minutes. KJ was very not good in those spots imo and hopefully MJ can get/stay healthy and take those minutes.
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KJ doesn’t have much of a fit here but he plays hard and last night made an impact with his offensive rebounding/passing/moving the ball. Still waiting for any of his FT’s or perimeter shots to hit the rim though. I know they worked with him this offseason but that shot is still not good.
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@BShark KJ in the 4 wasn’t good. He did have a nice pass for a lob to Udeh but offensively with him unable to even look to drive, Juan is the same and udeh can’t even post up the offense is brutal
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KJ and Harris don’t do a lot of things other players can’t do but they sure do a bunch of things a lot of players DONT do that lead to winning. It’s gonna be tough for self/norm to sit a guy that does everything he preaches and was a small but important piece of a national championship team.
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@benshawks08 there is some truth to this but not enough weight to garner the minutes (especially kj) that they will play.
We got down 21-6 to a d2 school who isn’t some top d2 ranked team.
Omaha is over 300 in kenpom and crutchfield said when kj is in theyd play off him (said in another thread by Bshark).
When we play legit teams who have 6-10 to 7 footers KJ’s hustle will only go so far and his absolute zero threat offensively means the big man guarding him can camp in the lane so we can’t drive. That forces us to Chuck 3’s and this isn’t a good three point shooting team.
Part of the problem is Bill’s allegiance to said players as he sees their positive traits but negates a lot of their negatives which domino effect into why offensively we are hurting ourselves further with lineups.
When kj comes in Bobby should sub in for Juan so he’s at least guarded from deep.
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@kuballin10 I love Bobby but he’s made one three. Not sure he’s a respected deep threat yet.
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KJ is undersized, as noted by pretty much everyone, so if he’s our 5, any team with a decent big over 6-8 is going to be a problem for him. There’s just nothing you can do when you are giving up 2-3 inches to a guy that can actually play.
As for the others, Udeh is pretty clearly the furthest along, and should get minutes that reflect that. Ejifor is going to be a bit of a project. I think Clemence should get minutes, but I worry that he is going to be as bad a defender as we feared, possibly worse. His lateral quickness just isn’t very good, and teams can put him in bad PnR situations to exploit that. I think KU is going to have to defend PnR differently depending on which lineup is in. With KJ, you just switch everything because he can harass even quicker guards on the perimeter with his athleticism. With Udeh, you can play more straight up. With Ejifor and Clemence you probably have to ice the screen (force the defender to the nearest sideline) to limit the options of the ball handler by using the sideline as a third defender.
Having those changing strategies will require some discipline from our guards though, because they will have to be aware of which big is guarding the screen at all times. You can’t mix up that KJ just came in for Ejifor, for example, expect to ice the screen to the sideline, and miss the switch. That’s a dunk pretty much every time.
There are some pretty clear limitations for our 4/5 rotation. That will probably be the biggest thing to watch here early.
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@benshawks08 he’s unknown by other teams right now. Juan was similar and as the year went on teams figured out he was no threat and would sag off him much like kj just making our offense impossible to run when two guys aren’t threats.
Swain or someone posted a picture of Pitt state sagging so far off us to start daring us to shoot. If Boschee can figure that out the same will happen with other coaches.
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Me watching Udeh, a large athletic big after 2 years being removed from Udoka
best Aaron Lewis impersonation IT’S BEEEEEEEEN AWHILE
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Great stuff as usual from CJ. And as a matter of course, these things don’t get written without at least a passing glance from one Billy Eugene Self https://theathletic.com/3774169/2022/11/08/kansas-jayhawks-win-ernest-udeh-jr/?source=user_shared_article
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@FarmerJayhawk does it suggest Udeh will start and be the guy going forward? CJ is great I probably need to pony up the $1-$2
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One thing for sure I found out afterward about our 5’s - -between Udeh - - Clemence - - - & Ejiofor - -they managed 3 shots - - - THREE for the entire game, - -umm my friends that’s not gonna get it done. - They have to be more involved in the offense then that. We have got to work more to get them more involved then that offensively.
If were gonna run with that then were in trouble. If we got KJ on the floor who poses no offensive Threat - - Juan who really isn’t a great threat - - and then Our big’s get THREE SHOTS for an entire game between them - - were in TROUBLE
On another note - -I found a flaw with Grady lol yes believe it or not - - Grady is gonna have to hit the boards harder then that - -Against Omaha - he got TWO - - Two boards not good
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@jayballer67 I think the lack of boards for Grady is a result of him being the wing who is supposed to leak out and run. Let Wilson grab the boards and push it.
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@benshawks08 said in The 5 spot:
@jayballer67 I think the lack of boards for Grady is a result of him being the wing who is supposed to leak out and run. Let Wilson grab the boards and push it.
Braun was a wing
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@jayballer67 If Gradey can add that dimension (which he will), he will be pretty dynamic. Sweetest stroke in a minute.
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I have not kept up well so far with this team. From what little I have seen Udeh is the best Big.
Zach seems lost. His play style does not appear to be suitable to this team which likes to run. Unless coaches come up with some specific plays for him, catch and shoot 3s type, I do not see him getting much PT this year.
