Famous Buckets Blunders
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Can’t remember if I posted as much on here but I was pretty sure Remy was done playing for Kansas because of the injury/personality not giving him enough time to build the trust Self would need. I honestly feel like I was wrong on BOTH Remy and Self with those thoughts as Self was willing to play him despite not really having the evidence to trust, and Remy was truly all in as a Jayhawk and just wanted to win.
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I thought LaGerald Vick was going to shine in post-season his final year and then get drafted and have a career in the NBA. His athleticism was other-worldly and he had a nice shot. I’m still bummed about this.
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I didn’t have any!
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With Grimes, I said pretty much from the beginning that he was massively overrated as a top 10 recruit and should’ve been a high end 4 star ranked in the 40-50 range. I also said that he would be AAC POY when he announced he was going to Houston. What I didn’t get right about him was that he would develop into a 1st round pick because of his lack of athleticism.
Before this place existed, or at least before I was posting here, I also correctly called Ben McLemore only playing one season at KU and being a lottery pick which is probably my proudest prediction because I caught tons of crap for that.
I also correctly predicted that the Morris Twins would be gone after their juniors seasons which even Self missed on that one and messed up recruiting for a couple of years with one.
I also called Joel Embiid being in a class with Hakeem Olajuwon as far as skillset went and that Embiid would be a very fast developing player and where most people thought he’d be here 3-4 years, I kept beating tge drum that he was a 2 year max player and even that was wrong on how fast his development was.
My biggest miss was probably Cliff Alexander because I thought he’d be a T-Rob clone.
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Right: Remy! Knew he’d come thru in the end. patience required.
Sometimes wrong, sometimes right: Big Dave
Wrong: Mitch. I didn’t think he’d contribute too much, but he came thru when called on, and was the heart and soul of the team for a decade.
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I thought Self was going to run Dave into the ground and there’d be no gas left by the end of the tournament. I never dreamed Self would use Remy as effectively as he did. Before this post season, nothing surprised me.
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@drgnslayr said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
If I start a GoFundMe page will you all give me a penny every time you think I’m wrong? I’m willing to take it on the chin for the cool million!
How about we all list some of our biggest blunders and have a good laugh?!
I’ll start with something very recent. No way I thought we had good chances for a natty this year!
Which biggest blunder? What year? If you want to narrow it down we could do month, or even game. Do you want to go back to Perry at the 3, or go back to Dave magley in the 80’s? How about when I opined that freshman Mason guy wasn’t that good, and we should start freshman Devonte and have Frank come off the bench. That was pure genius. How about when I got it in my head that Charlie Moore was all that…yeah, that was a humdinger. Every year I’ll post something that I think that turns out to be not some dumb- it’s plumb dumb.
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My biggest get was Devonte. I loved him the second he signed. I predicted he would be a star, and I was right.
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I was on a soapbox, writing here frequently, and willing to bet a large sum that Grimes was going to bomb in Houston like his freshman year here. Wrong. Still not sure exactly why Grimes didn’t play better here.
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@Bosthawk He didn’t play well here because he’s not a great athlete and wasn’t very skilled. Dropping to the AAC help cover for his lack of athleticism and Kelvin Sampson is a very good coach.
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Grimes probably grew up a bit as well when he left KU and was back “home”. I’m sure his aspirations going to KU was to be a OAD and high draft pick. Then Self got Dotson & Devon took his spot, speculation or not that’s how I see it. The role Grimes may have wanted (dominating the ball) at KU is the role he got at Houston & he was able to develop along with that. As @Texas-Hawk-10 pointed out the drop to AAC was likely just as beneficial to him showcasing.
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Ditto here. I had super high hopes on Diallo and knew immediately that Dotson was the real deal, definitely more valuable than Grimes.
Remy, Remy, Remy… I was positive he was done because he fell so far behind in the Self offense and his defense was a disaster. But he managed to help his worth on defense by pouring out tons of energy when on the floor. His offense was pretty basic, just get open, but it worked when we needed another trey shooter and he hit key shots. He didn’t fear the moment, and that played out huge!
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Grimes… I agree with @Texas-Hawk-10… The AAC better fit his athleticism… plus… once he came to Kansas he knew he wasn’t up to snuff and he masked his athletic shortcomings by not having his head in the right place and basically gave up. His ego was bruised… and instead of rising to the moment (he could have worked his tail off and been a real contributor like Wilson did), he coped out and leaving was the best thing for him and the program. I wouldn’t be surprised if Self pushed him out the door.
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A team that needs the contributions of someone like Connor Teahan would never be good enough to play in the national championship game.
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I thought I would stay up for the whole NC game and not go to bed at halftime like a whiny baby.
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Sometimes circumstances and timing don’t work. We didn’t get the best version of Grimes at KU which is unfortunate for how he’s remembered by KU fans.
I actually like to compare the Grimes and Malik Newman situations. Both heralded HS players that were expected to have short stays in College. Circumstances led them to different paths after their freshman years but their careers ended on high notes for different teams. I can only imagine how Miss St fans remember Malik, all the hype that followed him & being a Miss kid that went to a non-power in-state basketball school. I bet its similar to how most KU fans remember Grimes lone season here. Sometimes the expectations these high ranked kids come in with are unattainable to meet especially in their first year.
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@nuleafjhawk said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
I thought I would stay up for the whole NC game and not go to bed at halftime like a whiny baby.
Ouch that really happened??
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I was wrong about Doke. With the way he redefined his body he vastly exceeded my expectations as an upperclassman rim protector, and perimeter defender, and was so dominant that the free throws were not a total liability.
I was wrong about the Morrii. With their pudgy freshman bodies and t-rex arms, i did not expect them to be key NBA veterans some day.
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@BeddieKU23 Uh. Well… I mean… I’m very superstitious. All season long, when we got behind big time I would quit watching. Go to the store, go work on some project - whatever. So when we’re down FIFTEEN at halftime (Fifteen, really??) I thought - well, I’ll do us all a favor and go to bed. Not stay up till midnight and watch this bloodbath when I have to work the next day. By the way - the Super Bowl and National Championship games should ONLY be played on Saturday nights. Just saying.
Anyway - You’re welcome.
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Question for everyone: How did you feel with KU hiring Self?
I’ll admit… I wasn’t 100% for his hire. I felt confused and uncertain.
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@drgnslayr I thought we “settled”.
I am a basketball genius.
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I was a lot younger and immature when we got Self. When you grow up thinking Roy Williams is the greatest thing since sliced bread… Well let’s just say I was not impressed. Obviously that feeling had nothing to do with Self and everything to do with how Roy left us…
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@BeddieKU23 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
I was a lot younger and immature when we got Self. When you grow up thinking Roy Williams is the greatest thing since sliced bread… Well let’s just say I was not impressed. Obviously that feeling had nothing to do with Self and everything to do with how Roy left us…
We had an adjustment period, for sure. Some have never adjusted.
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I feel bad for those that haven’t at this point. We literally found the guy
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@BeddieKU23 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
I feel bad for those that haven’t at this point. We literally found the guy
Such a great point. The first year I didn’t like him because we didn’t run. Bill was an acquired taste for me. I didn’t really start liking him until 2007. By 2008, I was in all the way.
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Oh for sure the adjustment was hard. At times Bill is still acquired taste but there’s not another human being I want on that sideline. In fact, the thought of him not being here is pretty much the scariest thing I can imagine (in a KU fan vacuum).
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@BeddieKU23 I’ve grown ridiculously comfortable with the FACT that we will compete and likely win the big 12 every year and have a legitimate chance at a title just about every year as we enter the tournament as a top 4 seed. Down years probably mean 2nd in conference and maybe a loss on a Thursday or Friday of the second weekend.
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@BeddieKU23 I had an inappropriate hatred for Roy Williams when he left. Especially after the “I don’t give a **** about North Carolina” statement.
The funny thing is - he is the ONLY person I’ve ever gotten an autograph from. The only one I ever wanted. I always thought that autograph collecting was a strange habit. Anyway, I took two of my nephews (10 & 12) to a game and of course they wanted autographs afterwards. We stood in line - seemed like two hours. People we pushing and shoving and talking nasty to each other, it was absurd. For autographs. But I kept watching Roy. He was so gracious and kind and always had a little something to say to each person. I was so impressed. When we finally got to him, my nephews got their autographs and Roy looked at me and I told him “I’ve never in my life wanted an autograph from anyone, but I WOULD like yours, just because of the way you’ve handled all these people”. I think he teared up a little (maybe I did too, so???) So I got my one and only autograph.
Oh yeah, about five years after he left, I forgave him.
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My biggest miss when evaluating talent was definitely Carlton Bragg. He looked like an ideal pick and pop big man. Obviously, you can’t tell from high school highlights where a guy is at mentally and focuswise, but Bragg looked like he had the tools.
I thought about Bragg when I was watching the 30 for 30 on ESPN about the AND1 mixtapes of the late 90s and early 2000s. At one point, they asked NBA players if the AND1 guys could have played in the NBA, and Lou Williams and Kyrie Irving both made profound statements after they stopped laughing. Irving basically said that because they were professionals, they knew how to take care of their body and get themselves ready to play every day. Williams said that the NBA requires dedication because you have to play basketball when you don’t want to play basketball.
Turning back to Bragg, I think the thing for him was that he played basketball because he was good at it, but not because he wanted to be a basketball player. That disconnect limited his ability to improve and basically doomed him at KU. To improve at the P5 level and beyond, you have to work on your game even when you don’t want to. It’s more of a job than something you do for enjoyment at that point. That is a tough transition.
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@justanotherfan said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Turning back to Bragg, I think the thing for him was that he played basketball because he was good at it, but not because he wanted to be a basketball player. That disconnect limited his ability to improve and basically doomed him at KU. To improve at the P5 level and beyond, you have to work on your game even when you don’t want to. It’s more of a job than something you do for enjoyment at that point. That is a tough transition.
Bam! Nailed it.
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Grimes first game as a Jayhawk, 21 points in the bright lights of the Champions Classic against MSU. 6 of 10 3 pointers. He never again scored even 20 in a game the rest of the year. That amazed me. Still not sure how someone does that and then goes for double figures only 9 more times. I can still picture his first shot he made, a beautifully formed 3 from the wing.
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I was 100% in on Bragg. He had so much real potential. I feel what he lacked (discovered this later) was maturity. Maybe someone else in here knows… but I doubt he had a good family support system. He seemed to lack a mentor in his life where he would be ashamed if he didn’t succeed. Mentors are a huge help to kids, especially those growing up on the wrong side of the tracks.
SELF - I think everyone in here knows me and what I think of Bill. He’s a guy I’ve met several times and I’m impressed that he seems to remember me. How to compare him to the other D1 coaches. I now think he’s the absolute best in America right now. I always favored Jay Wright in the past because he always had teams that were well-coached in fundamentals. He would take a team of less than 5-star players and win titles. Early on in Bill’s career here I embraced the focus on defense over offense. But I would get pissed that we actually didn’t practice enough fundamentals in defense. Without question, Self has improved his coaching while at Kansas. I don’t think there are that many coaches out there that actually work on their craft to try to improve. We all have witnessed him taking teams of differing gifts and utilize what gifts we have. I was never a fan of his original 3/2 hi/lo or extensively using the chop scheme. Now… wow! He’s converted his motion 3/2 hi/lo to a 4/1 hi/lo and wow does that work! It feels more like a NBA offense… exciting to see it working and our offense seems more productive.
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This thread is making me realize my biggest mistakes were all about big men. I think most peoples probably are.
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Is it you… or is it that we really missed on several bigs? We all saw size and maybe some athleticism and got excited. I will say… I doubt many of us missed on JoJo! lol
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@drgnslayr well, to be honest, I did not miss on Jojo in college, but feel like I haven’t appreciated him as an NBA player. but maybe that’s because I don’t appreciate the NBA.
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@justanotherfan At least I’m in good company on Bragg.
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@nuleafjhawk If you like to listen to Podcasts, I found “the Jayhawker podcast” with Wayne Simien and Brian Haney does some of the interviews. There’s a great one on there with Roy Williams. I enjoyed Sherron Collins’ interview as well my Jayhawk hero and fellow classmate Danny Manning.
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I feel like this thread has been cathartic. The post has generated more response than I expected. I guess that’s another confession…
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Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
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@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I was at his first game vs USC. High hopes… https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/303522305
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I watched Bragg in a summer scrimmage before his sophomore year and he DOMINATED. Shame he never put it all together.
Mine was DeAndre Ayton. I was writing at the time and went to Free State to cover one of his games. All four coaches were in separate corners of the gym and half the team was there. I asked someone close to the program about him and he just told me “lock city.” I had the commitment story written and on my hard drive ready to publish. Oops.
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@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I will always believe KU wins the 2012 title if he swallowed his pride and came back for his sophomore season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I will always believe KU wins the 2012 title if he swallowed his pride and came back for his sophomore season.
Selby is another one that was probably mis-cast and miscoached. Self had a habit for a while of trying to make certain guys fill a specific role. He wanted Naadir Tharpe to be Russell Robinson, for example. With Selby, he wanted him to play more like Sherron Collins, but that just wasn’t his game. Once Selby started to struggle (and was working through injuries, too) it all just kind of unraveled.
If Self had given Selby the kind of patience and freedom that he gave Remy Martin, KU probably wins the 2011 title. Think of what that win would have done for Self’s legacy with two titles in less than 10 years at KU, plus the conference title streak, etc. But Self was still developing as a coach then. He was still adapting his style.
