Red Raiders
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Thoughts on the game, everyone?
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Not scoring 70 with all the scorers we have is disappointing to say the least.
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@Marco under further scrutiny my statement isn’t logical but it sounded funny in my head.
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@Zabudda said in Red Raiders:
The zone worked but so much other stuff didn’t ill leave it at that.
I think it is our best bet long term. Remy needs to get healthy. I don’t care if we lose to ISU if Remy is still hurt don’t play him.
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@approxinfinity he’s gonna play 10 min a game when healthy and Harris will start next year.
Watched ku ball probably like you for decades…self ain’t changing a guy who starts this year and his back won’t be passed up as much as Bobby should start
Self stunts growth it’s a reason recruiting trail he struggles. Coaches sell against him on it and his system and how strict he is.
We still get guys but not like other blue bloods and we can see the whiff inside this year but Bill didn’t want anyone thought Dave was enough
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@bskeet we shot efficiently enough tbh. We just let tech shoot 52% and take more shots
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@Marco said in Red Raiders:
Thoughts on the game, everyone?
The officials were almost as atrocious as our frontcourt.
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Non travel call in front of Self called a foul instead, 2 points them instead of our ball. Non 3 second call in lane leads to and 1. 3 more points for them. Charge called when Braun did exactly what they did to us 4 times in the first half and got the call. 1 point them. Our rebounder shoved out of bounds leads to and 1. 3 points. Braun gets whacked in face on dunk. Nada -1 point for us. Lose ball Harris shoved to ground, their ball. (I forget if that leads to points or not) 2 times very quick whistle for jump ball, the last one was egregious. 2 possessions lost. I know I’m missing some, but these calls were impactful.
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Horns. Hawks, Cyclones and Bears all on the road today. We missed our chance along with the Horns and if the Bears and/or Cyclones win then well you know.
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18-44 pts in paint
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@Crimsonorblue22 Oh man.
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17 turnovers never helps a team win I acknowledge. Jalen Wilson finally scores some points and inexplicably doesn’t rebound the basketball. Obviously no one besides JW and OA were scoring. That of course was huge.
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Post game is always on espn+
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Red Raiders:
18-44 pts in paint
Also got outrebounded 34-24. We just have no inside presence this year.
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That rebound Wilson lost killed us after the ft
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We are going to get embarrassed by a few teams this year if we don’t make changes. I’m for embracing healthy portions of zone
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Our 5 is going to be the un doing for us - -we have Nothing. - My Kingdom for a quality big man. - -No 5 and then horrible defense, don’t get your hopes up unless this gets fixed - and fixed soon
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You get outscored - - -44 – 18 in the paint , no more needs said - inexcusable
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Some pts in the paint were perimeter guys getting by our guys and off 2nd shots/boards.
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Bad officiating or not, KU didn’t deserve to win today. 4 points, 7 rebounds, and 2 assists combined from the 5 spot today with zero production from Mitch.
Also why did Remy only play 12 minutes today? Injury or something else?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Red Raiders:
Bad officiating or not, KU didn’t deserve to win today. 4 points, 7 rebounds, and 2 assists combined from the 5 spot today with zero production from Mitch.
Also why did Remy only play 12 minutes today? Injury or something else?
Remy still hurt some but not his best game either when he was in
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Red Raiders:
Some pts in the paint were perimeter guys getting by our guys and off 2nd shots/boards.
so many were just to easy , lots of 2-3 footers in the lane
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We just look out of kelter , no other way to say other then our defense is just terrible. - not sure what the kenpom rankings defensively where we stand but I know were dead last in the big 12 and it showed. Beat time and time and time again in the lane. It hurts we have no inside presence defensively -well we have no inside presence offensively either.
We just look choppy on offense no flow none of smooth flow just out of sync , forced shots , bad shots , missed shots -baad rebounding getting beat today by like 10 I believe mercy got to clean things up and soon
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I guess he told self before game he didn’t think he could go. Just shot at warmups. Guess he changed his mind? Not sure, got 3 quick fouls
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@jayballer67 our players aren’t real quick laterally…ochai never has been because he can’t beat his man off the dribble and same for the rest of them. Harris is weak, David uncoordinated, jalen another slow laterally.
Only real quick athletes are remy (when he’s not hurt) pettiford and Joe
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@approxinfinity agreed…zero offense inside when Mitch isn’t going up against SFA and same for Dave.
Braun literally can’t disappear because Harris and Wilson neither can throw it in the ocean or score.
It leaves Ochai and that’s it with Braun. That’s what coach has pushed though with them carrying the load when many here saw Braun would come back down to earth it’s not sustainable.
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@Crimsonorblue22 at least he didn’t strip naked and then run off the court, right?
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well, that wasn’t pleasant. The most frustrating part of watching KU hoops for me: Dave receives the ball on the low post in good position. All he has to do is go up not even semi quickly over his right shoulder to the rim and score. But no. He puts it on the floor. backpedals 10 feet, heads to the middle of the lane and hoists up a 10 foot left handed clunker. every time nearly. maddening.
MORE KJ!!! Don’t care if he makes a few mistakes. energy.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Red Raiders:
well, that wasn’t pleasant. The most frustrating part of watching KU hoops for me: Dave receives the ball on the low post in good position. All he has to do is go up not even semi quickly over his right shoulder to the rim and score. But no. He puts it on the floor. backpedals 10 feet, heads to the middle of the lane and hoists up a 10 foot left handed clunker. every time nearly. maddening.
MORE KJ!!! Don’t care if he makes a few mistakes. energy.
I am onboard, Dave plays small so we might as well go small. For whatever reason, he has never fully understood that he is 6’10, always dribbling first even if right by the hoop. I mean serious, how many times has he even dunked? Anyone?
It is time to play KJ.
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Glad I missed the game. Execution and effort at the end killed them. Missed layup by och, not getting rebounds which was all effort, loose balls, etc. Didn’t look like a team out there on replay just some individuals
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Also on replay what a dreadful first half of play, really hard to watch with Wilson the only production on offense. You won’t win games when that’s the case. The game was lost in the first half.
The missed foul on Harris stealing the ball with 1 minute left is a joke. Only a home crowd ref let’s that go. Doesn’t get any easier then that on a call.
This team isn’t getting better and the break in December may have disrupted everything that was built. They need to play at home and get back to themselves
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One last thing the officiating was the worst I’ve seen this yr.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Red Raiders:
One last thing the officiating was the worst I’ve seen this yr.
that was the worst I’ve seen in some time, a couple of the charges were legit charges but not just the charging calls just a lot of BS calls or non calls sick of it. I know I shouldn’t say that being a former offical myself but dam
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@BShark said in Red Raiders:
https://twitter.com/nick_schwerdt/status/1479953341815922689
one of the replies on this tweet siad McCormack and then pointed to Landen Lucas , I was thinking about Lucas I would love to have Landen on this team almost a sure fire double double always 10 , 12 , points a game a could always count on 10 or more rebounds - makes Dave look like a clown. /He wasn’t great but at least he had a legit shot and rebounder
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@jayballer67 seems like Landen and Dave are almost identical tbh
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@BeddieKU23 said in Red Raiders:
This team isn’t getting better and the break in December may have disrupted everything that was built. They need to play at home and get back to themselves
Here is where I am disappointed. I expected this team full of experience to come together over Xmas break. As you mentioned… it seems like they went the other way. I am curious what happened over Xmas.
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I expected the Tech game to be a toss up/more then 50% chance of losing tbh. 2 road games in a week is hard especially when your not playing well. We have not passed the eye test in a while. Remy isn’t close to 100%, Bobby is out. Agbaji has come back to earth showing some of the criticism that’s followed him for 4 years now. Braun’s also showing that playing better athletes still bothers him. Some guys are playing too many minutes and Self doesn’t trust anyone off the bench it seems unless its the backup 5. The 5 position is the Achilles heal to this team.
This is a good team but I still don’t really think they are a team playing together. The defense as we saw Saturday was poor. Tech does nothing fancy but they have athletes and it showed. At the end of the day KU still looks like a team lacking athletes.
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Not calling a foul on the And-1 dunk by Braun and the missed foul on Harris stealing the ball that went out of bounds, that was 3 points potentially taken away in the last few minutes. My gripe with these two plays is that similar plays by Tech were rewarded with FT’s. The Harris one just baffles me and I’ve watched the replay of that play 3 times now. This wasn’t a fairly called game at the end. However if KU had played better perhaps it could have overcome poor officiating at key moments
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@BeddieKU23 said in Red Raiders:
Not calling a foul on the And-1 dunk by Braun and the missed foul on Harris stealing the ball that went out of bounds, that was 3 points potentially taken away in the last few minutes. My gripe with these two plays is that similar plays by Tech were rewarded with FT’s. The Harris one just baffles me and I’ve watched the replay of that play 3 times now. This wasn’t a fairly called game at the end. However if KU had played better perhaps it could have overcome poor officiating at key moments
Just really bad calls - -missed calls , no calls. I’ve always heard , been told and even agreed with . still do for the most part and that is a bad call by the officials did not cost us this game - -yes that’s true , BUT multiple poor calls, YES that could very easily cost a game -just really bad calls
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@approxinfinity said in Red Raiders:
@jayballer67 seems like Landen and Dave are almost identical tbh
not really sure about that. Landen was more consistent, you could almost always count on that 10-12 points a game and double digit rebounds - - Dave - - uhhh not so much
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@approxinfinity said in Red Raiders:
@jayballer67 seems like Landen and Dave are almost identical tbh
I would argue they couldn’t be more different. Lucas was the pinnacle of consistency but was never going to surprise you. He rebounded well in his area, scored the easy buckets, the Self offense set up for him, and was an average to slightly above average post defender who could usually handle his own man but was unlikely to provide a major shot blocking presence in the post.
Dave on the other hand is wildly inconsistent. As likely to give you 3 pts and 2 rebounds as he is to go 17 and 15. He rarely makes the easy rebound or bucket that Lucas could be counted on to handle. However, he has the potential to rebound outside of his area, make a jumper, occasionally even score one on one vs his defender. He draws help and attention in a way Lucas never did potentially opening up scoring opportunities for others. When he’s at his best he can get a few weak side blocks and if not control the paint, at least provide some resistance on drives that get past the guards.
Maybe my memory is bad but these are the impressions I have of those two players looking back. All of the Dave potential is based on what we saw late in the season last year. We’ve seen very little of that this year.
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@benshawks08 @jayballer67 just had this same exact conversation with my wife. she made the same valid points you did. it’s an interesting comparison, for sure.
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Agree they are nothing alike and that’s how I remember them.
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@approxinfinity said in Red Raiders:
@benshawks08 @jayballer67 just had this same exact conversation with my wife. she made the same valid points you did. it’s an interesting comparison, for sure.
Wow, getting it from all sides!
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@benshawks08 haha. I’m glad to be surrounded by people who hold me accountable. Thank you for that
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On replay the Harris no call is worse then the Braun dunk. There was contact on the Braun dunk but the Harris one just baffles me because he is unable to control his body to stay in bounds with the ball because of contact by the TT player, Braun at least finished the play with a spectacular finish (where he could have been easily T’d up after for pushing the player and taunting him). That’s been a bit of an issue with him at times.
However rewatching the last few minutes I actually think the missed layup by Ochai had as much of an impact as those two missed calls. He missed an absolute gimmie.
Ochai has 8 fouls in 2 conference games which is unacceptable. In his previous 7 games he had only committed 9 fouls. He’s gotta clean that up and stay on the floor.
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@BeddieKU23 and he’s no good playing not to foul!
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@BeddieKU23 said in Red Raiders:
Ochai has 8 fouls in 2 conference games which is unacceptable. In his previous 7 games he had only committed 9 fouls. He’s gotta clean that up and stay on the floor.
His fouling is a definite indicator of how he’s getting beat on defense. He is very much getting beat on defense. For a guy with his athleticism, he simply shouldn’t be getting beat like he does. He’s been beat every which way, from falling asleep on backdoor alleyoops, to getting beat off the dribble, and definitely on switches.
I hope he isn’t thinking he just needs to save his body for the draft. Right now… these are the games which will largely impact his draft position. Going up a few notches translates into millions and getting out of the blocks right so having a big time NBA career is more likely.
My rant about not playing with urgency has now been translated by Self with “uncertainty of effort.”
I’ve mentioned not having a definite floor general, regardless… this team will be fueled by Och’s play. Just because he leads the team in scoring versus TT does not indicate how he lacked urgency in his play. He should be dominating games and when and if he will… just watch Braun. He’ll shadow Och’s numbers because teams don’t know what to do with two prolific scorers. Braun just needs to be surrounded by enthusiastic players… and he is quite capable of showing enthusiasm himself!
The big plus out of this game is seeing Wilson somewhat return to form. I’m thinking he has earned a starting spot again and will probably become one of our more consistent players. When his shot doesn’t fall, he’ll just go hustle up more rebounds. He is our junkyard dog player and every team needs one of those.
Our guys got a wake-up call in this TT game about how they are going to need to turn it up to win league games. If they don’t… we could see a horrific year. The worst in the Self era.
The only thing that stopped us from going 0-2 was OSU’s terrible performance.
I’ve said all that but I still feel good about our year ahead. Still feeling like this team will come together. As I said earlier… we may end up 2nd or 3rd in the league, but stand a good chance of putting together a late run.
I’d like to see guys play together on both ends of the court. On offense… no one is doing anything for anyone. It’s every man for himself and they are starting to look like some of our old teams that would just perch on the trey line and pass the ball fast enough to get a shot off in the seam. These guys should be setting off-ball screens like crazy to free each other up. Pick and pops, too.
