Bill Self Emperor of Kansas
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@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Just commission his statue already. The man will have been the coach here for over 2 decades when it is all said and done.
He won’t coach to 74 - but if he did just so everyone knows - he would pass K for all-time wins at his current pace. I swear I think it is part of the reason K keeps coaching.
Depends on where Coach K ends up whenever he retires. Let’s say Self stays until 74, that’s 16 more years and at an average 25 wins per year (that’s conservative considering he’s averaged 29 wins per year in his 18 years here), that would give him 400 more wins putting him at 1129 wins. Coach K is already at 1170 for his career. I don’t know where Coach K ends up, over 1200 seems very likely, I don’t see Self catching Coach K. Even if Self kept up the average of 29 wins per year for the next 16 years, it’d put him at 1194 and who knows where Coach K is going to end up at whenever he decides to retire.
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Interesting this decision was made under the Interim Athletic Director. Or maybe not so interesting, I don’t know. But it seems like a big decision, and interim leaders typically just try to maintain the status quo. Great decision, regardless.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich As the game winning shot goes through the net to clinch his 25th National Championship!
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Self will have his name on something in or around the Fieldhouse in the near future.
I hope this helps him solidify the great class for next year.
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One of the best things about this move (and there are many) is that all those OSU alumni watching the Beard to Texas move who were thinking “So there’s a chance!” are today settling back to reality.
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Porter Moser considering a 6-year offer from OU.
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Wow that’s interesting
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Congrats to Bill on the contract. Didn’t see this kind of offer coming but glad its here. Wouldn’t want anyone else running this program
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@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Porter Moser considering a 6-year offer from OU.
Would take the OU game from a shoot out (Kruger) to an absolute meat grinder.
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BILL. E. YOU. GENE. SELF.
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I think this is a good deal for both parties. Ends the rumors on both sides. Gives recruits some clarity. Settles some of the chaos around the athletic department. Its a win-win-win.
I am critical of Self from time to time, but I also realize something very simple - there’s not a better coach for KU out there right now. So while I may criticize, I am NOT on the fire Bill Self trail. That’s just stupid. If KU were to fire him, we would have to hope we did as well with the next hire.
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Really is a win-win. Especially for recruiting. Just a well thought out plan.
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Makes the AD job more attractive if anyone wants to jump in.
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@FarmerJayhawk Yes, I’m seriously considering taking that job now.
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Looking more closely at this contract now, it probably shuts down any possibility of Self leaving KU for the Spurs. It looks like he would have to pay Kansas if he left for the NBA.
Someone who understands this better than I do, tell me: if the IARP issues a show-cause penalty against Self, would Kansas just have to take it now? Like we couldn’t part ways with Self so that KU got off with a lighter penalty?
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@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Looking more closely at this contract now, it probably shuts down any possibility of Self leaving KU for the Spurs. It looks like he would have to pay Kansas if he left for the NBA.
If he moved to the NBA, he would probably be able to negotiate a contract that covers that $2 million buyout pretty easily.
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@bskeet Ya you’re right. But, hey, 2 mil!
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@tundrahok said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Interesting this decision was made under the Interim Athletic Director. Or maybe not so interesting, I don’t know. But it seems like a big decision, and interim leaders typically just try to maintain the status quo. Great decision, regardless.
I agree with this 100% I’m also going to go further and speculate that not having an official AD might be a reason in the sudden uptick in recruiting.
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It says something when your prize coach has a less than stellar year and then gets offered a lifetime gig.
This is called “walking the walk!”
Congrats Coach Self!
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@drgnslayr this is simply a marketing and recruiting tool. Kansas intentionally labeled it a lifetime contract to send a message to recruits. it is no more a lifetime contract than many other similar contracts given to coaches. kansas needs to send a message to recruits so they opted to call it a lifetime contract. that doesn’t mean its any different than other contracts out in the market that no one ever bothered to call a lifetime contract. if bill self wants to leave he will leave. if ku wants to get rid of him in 5 years they can.
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@bennie said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
@drgnslayr this is simply a marketing and recruiting tool. Kansas intentionally labeled it a lifetime contract to send a message to recruits. it is no more a lifetime contract than many other similar contracts given to coaches. kansas needs to send a message to recruits so they opted to call it a lifetime contract. that doesn’t mean its any different than other contracts out in the market that no one ever bothered to call a lifetime contract. if bill self wants to leave he will leave. if ku wants to get rid of him in 5 years they can.
It is a recruiting tool, but that doesn’t change that it is a lifetime contract. This contract will always be a 5 year contract because it does automatically add another year at the end of each season. If either party wants to terminate the deal for whatever reason, it’s not going to be cheap for either party to do so unless Self is determined to be fired with cause.
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Mark Turgeon getting an extension with Maryland to the delight of Terps fans lol
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@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Mark Turgeon getting an extension with Maryland to the delight of Terps fans lol
Live look-in at their board
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Moser to OU is apparently done.
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@Kcmatt7 Double bird!!
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So - with HCBS getting a lifetime contract, and with Roy leaving NC, the question is …
What is arguably the best coaching position in D1? The place where the guy who invented basketball coached? Hard to top Kansas
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As expected chode and despicable Pat Forde has a hit piece out on Selfs new contract. Sports reporting dies every time this man writes
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@Bosthawk said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
So - with HCBS getting a lifetime contract, and with Roy leaving NC, the question is …
What is arguably the best coaching position in D1? The place where the guy who invented basketball coached? Hard to top Kansas
I think UNC is the marginally better job. More resources available and easier to recruit (Self has mentioned it’s hard to get guys to Kansas). On the other hand, UNC has a lot more headaches given the resources often come with frankly bizarre strings.
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@Bosthawk I would probably say UNC is the best coaching job right now because of the affiliation with Nike and the Jordan brand. Kentucky would probably be 2nd best followed by Kansas 3rd, Duke 4th, and I’d probably put UCLA 5th.
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Best jobs in the NCAA, ranked:
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North Carolina - blends history, results, recent success with having a very nice recruiting base nearby, plus the $$$ from Jordan Brand.
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UCLA - has the history and a very fertile recruiting ground. The only downside is being on the west coast, but that gives them a lot of advantages.
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Tie between Kansas and Kentucky. Both are great jobs, but neither has the recruiting ground. UK slightly better recruiting area, KU slightly better recently.
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Indiana - a blend of KU and Kentucky, with better recruiting area than both.
Duke is a great brand, but is almost completely tied to Coach K. We don’t know if that’s a great job, or if its just Coach K.
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@justanotherfan Interesting point about Coach K and Duke. Maybe a similar point could be made about Wooden and UCLA? Is one phenomenal coach in a school’s history sufficient to elevate the job to the second best in the country? Not sure I’d put UCLA quite so high, although it’s certainly a prestigious job.
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@tundrahok Being able to recruit that area with basically no other blue blood program in the area is a huge advantage for UCLA.
Some are transfers, but they have 9 players on their team from southern California… That type of fertile recruiting ground is just not really fair. They also have the Nevada and AZ prep schools to try and poach from.
It is a good job. While they’ve missed the tourney, they have also been to four final fours in the time Self has been here.
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UCLA had the bulk of their championships under Wooden, so I agree with you on that, @tundrahok.
But here’s the crazy thing about UCLA. Since Wooden retired in 1974, they have had the following coaches:
Gene Bartow coached for two years and took them to one Final Four in 1976.
Gary Cunningham coached the next two seasons - UCLA finished both of those campaigns ranked second in the country.
Larry Brown was next, leading the program from 1979-1981. He took the Bruins to a title game (later vacated).
Larry Farmer and Walt Hazard were next, and were both legitimately average, winning about 70% of their games overall.
Jim Harrick coached UCLA from 1988 to 1996. He led the Bruins to their only other title in 1995.
Steve Lavin followed Harrick and had some good teams, advancing to the Sweet Sixteen in five of six seasons. His teams were never great though. They didn’t ever make a Final Four or really even challenge for a national title.
Ben Howland did what Lavin could not, taking UCLA to three consecutive Final Fours, but again, no titles.
Steve Alford was next in Westwood. He was okay, but never great and did not reach the Final Four.
And now they have Mick Cronin, who has taken them to a Final Four in his second season.
That’s ten coaches since Wooden - half have taken UCLA to the Final Four, and only Farmer, Hazard and Alford really weren’t very good.
UCLA’s history is much more than Wooden. It’s just hard to make your mark on a program that has 10 banners hung by one man.
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@justanotherfan Duke has solid history pre Coach K with multiple Final Fours and title game appearances so Coach K didn’t exactly build that program from scratch. Duke actually played in the title game in 1978 which was only 2 years before Coach K arrived.
Duke reached the Final Four in 1963, 1964, 1966, and 1978 including the 1964 and 1978 title games. So much like UCLA, their history is more than one coach.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
@justanotherfan Duke has solid history pre Coach K with multiple Final Fours and title game appearances so Coach K didn’t exactly build that program from scratch. Duke played in the title game in 1978 which was only 2 years before Coach K arrived.
Duke reached the Final Four in 1963, 1964, 1966, and 1978 including the 1964 and 1978 title games. So much like UCLA, their history is more than one coach.
Agreed. The only thing that separates UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc. from most programs is that they have all succeeded more or less regardless of who has been the coach. Duke has really only had three successful coaches - Vic Bubas (led them to those first three final fours), Bill Foster (1978 final four), and Coach K. If the person after Coach K keeps up this level of success, then they are on the level with KU, UK, UCLA and UNC.
Kentucky has Rupp, but also Hall, Pitino, Smith and Calipari with titles.
UNC has Dean Smith, but Williams has three titles, Frank McGuire won their first title, and Bill Guthridge went to a Final Four.
Kansas has three titles, each by a different coach, plus final fours from other coaches as well.
It doesn’t matter who has coached at those places - they succeed or are replaced (insert jokes about Billy Gillespie here).
Every KU coach since Phog Allen has been to a Final Four. Every single one. Every UNC coach since the 50’s has as well, except Matt Doherty.
Same for every UK coach except Eddie Sutton and the aforementioned Gillespie.
I detailed UCLA above.
Add one more coach to Duke’s history, and they have a similar story. Duke is close. They just need one more coach with that success rate.
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Best job in the country and they’re going Hubert Davis. This is how you become Indiana.
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@FarmerJayhawk Why don’t you like Davis?
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@Kcmatt7 lack of experience mostly. He coached the JV team but wasn’t even Roy’s lead assistant. If he didn’t go to UNC he wouldn’t even sniff the gig. Chris Holtmann is interviewing today and if he wants the job there’s no good reason to hire Hubert. But the main requirement to getting the job seems to be going to UNC and playing for Dean.
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@justanotherfan said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
@justanotherfan Duke has solid history pre Coach K with multiple Final Fours and title game appearances so Coach K didn’t exactly build that program from scratch. Duke played in the title game in 1978 which was only 2 years before Coach K arrived.
Duke reached the Final Four in 1963, 1964, 1966, and 1978 including the 1964 and 1978 title games. So much like UCLA, their history is more than one coach.
Agreed. The only thing that separates UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc. from most programs is that they have all succeeded more or less regardless of who has been the coach. Duke has really only had three successful coaches - Vic Bubas (led them to those first three final fours), Bill Foster (1978 final four), and Coach K. If the person after Coach K keeps up this level of success, then they are on the level with KU, UK, UCLA and UNC.
Kentucky has Rupp, but also Hall, Pitino, Smith and Calipari with titles.
UNC has Dean Smith, but Williams has three titles, Frank McGuire won their first title, and Bill Guthridge went to a Final Four.
Kansas has three titles, each by a different coach, plus final fours from other coaches as well.
It doesn’t matter who has coached at those places - they succeed or are replaced (insert jokes about Billy Gillespie here).
Every KU coach since Phog Allen has been to a Final Four. Every single one. Every UNC coach since the 50’s has as well, except Matt Doherty.
Same for every UK coach except Eddie Sutton and the aforementioned Gillespie.
I detailed UCLA above.
Add one more coach to Duke’s history, and they have a similar story. Duke is close. They just need one more coach with that success rate.
Duke has Nike money behind them and that’s going to continue even after Coach K retires. UCLA might be a fertile recruiting area, but a lot of that are prep schools whose kids are not truly local SoCal kids. Under Armour also doesn’t have a huge grassroots presence yet so they don’t have nearly as deep a talent pool.
If we’re talking best jobs in 2021, shoe affiliation matters and Nike supporting Duke lifts them above UCLA being an Under Armour school.
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I think I’d go with your assessment of school blue blood rankings. I would bump Kansas ahead of UK because of the Big 12 typically being stronger than the SEC in basketball. Also… Kansas has been filling the record books with streaks and will probably soon surpass UK in total wins. I think that will be made into a big deal. If Self continues on with his winning ways, it should separate us from UK. I’m skeptical about Cal keeping up and wonder if the luster is now wearing off on his sales pitch to be the best coach to get guys into the league afterwards.
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I think there will be questions about Duke after K is gone. I’m not fond of the man but he definitely knows how to bring greatness through the doors of Duke, using many methods.
What I don’t doubt is Duke’s commitment to basketball excellence. They have the money and the will to do whatever is necessary to bring in a monster coach after K retires. Just like how they got in a bidding war with us on those rules… they had no business trying to buy those because the rules just wouldn’t belong there. They don’t care. They have the big bucks and they have alumni in super power positions to get what they want.
As much as I dislike Duke… I’m thinking they will probably LIFT their program to new heights after K is gone. Whatever it will take… they will do.
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@drgnslayr One word why UK is a better job than KU.
Nike.
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Had a funny discussion with my 76 year old mother about Bill’s lifetime contract.
She asked, “Why in the world would he commit to a job for the rest of his life?”
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The best thing about tonight’s championship is that finally a Big12 team not called Kansas has won a natty. That’s important if you ever want to make the statement that the Big12 is better than _____ (fill in the blank with any other power 5 conference) and be taken seriously.
The last time a Big12 team not called Kansas won the NCAA Title in basketball was 1946. The team was Oklahoma A&M.
And, yes, other than KU and Baylor, that’s it since the tournament started in 1939.
No ISU. No OU. Heck, no Nebraska, Colorado, or Missouri. No titles for any other Big 7, Big 8 or Big 12 team. Not even Texas A&M.
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Valid statement! Just not sure if it’s best to be the small fish in the big pond or the big fish in the little pond. Kansas may have lost on some recruits but also landed a very lucrative shoe contract.
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@drgnslayr I think as a coach, Nike makes UK the better job.
If you were asking me what makes sense from an Athletic Department standpoint - sure I think a lucrative deal obviously is more important. But Shoe Co. dictates so much of your success and UK is the Nike darling.
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Self really hyping Goff on Hawk Talk. Not a bad sign.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
Self really hyping Goff on Hawk Talk. Not a bad sign.
As emperor he probably had some say in the AD hiring given the shit show that was the relationship between Self and Long.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self Emperor of Kansas:
@drgnslayr I think as a coach, Nike makes UK the better job.
If you were asking me what makes sense from an Athletic Department standpoint - sure I think a lucrative deal obviously is more important. But Shoe Co. dictates so much of your success and UK is the Nike darling.
The big money in college athletics is football. Our football program as crappy as it is still brings in more money to KU than basketball does. Shoe companies also have minimal influence on football recruiting. Nike also doesn’t give their big contracts to basketball schools, their biggest deals are with Texas, Michigan and Ohio St. and not because of their basketball programs.
