New Mexico State Game Thread
-
Is Dok our top scorer? These ESPN studio guys are talking out of their asses, but oh well.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 I thought it was KJ that hit him
-
Wow. The difference in the game was our 50% FT shooting. It beat their 30% shooting.
-
@Bwag crazy throws!
-
@kjayhawks kj went
-
Bwag said:
jayballer73 said:
Well guess that pretty well sums up how Self felt about the situation. - -When asked what happened about the 15 minute mark of the 2nd half when Dedric left the huddle - -He responded - - I don’t know what your talking about. - -End of story then went on to next question - -pretty well we now know - -he was beyond pissed.
Huh?
Dedric went or got sent to the end of the Bench with like 15:42 during a timeout - -he said in a talk postgame he said he went to the end of the Bench to get himself focused and thinking about what he had to do - -regroup - - When Greg ask Coach Self asked about what went on or what happened during that span during the time out - -Coach didn’t want to answer - pretty much blew it off - -said don’t know what you are talking about
-
Sooo… does the majority of the buckets group still thinking “4 out” is the way to go? Or did KU miss Doke tonight?
-
@Gorilla72 I did, but that was w/that other Vick guy.
-
I’ll just copy paste this segment for those without an Athletic sub.
- Bad post defense
Now the bad …
It’s not a good sign when mid-game a coach decides he needs to double-team the post. It’s basically admitting that your guys cannot guard their guys, and that’s the white flag Self threw up against the Aggies.
“I thought our bigs made their bigs look really good tonight,” Self said.
For anyone who was wondering if Kansas could be better without Azubuike, go back and re-watch KU’s defensive possessions in this game. The answer is no. KU’s best defense has been played this year with Azubuike on the floor, because he protects the rim and eliminates the thought of playing through the post. Only seven times has an opponent finished a possession with a post-up against Azubuike this season, per Synergy, and those possessions have yielded just four points. It’s inefficient offense.
But with Azubuike sidelined with his ankle injury, it was obviously a big part of New Mexico State’s game plan, attacking Lawson in particular.
Lawson could not handle NMSU’s Ivan Aurrecoechea, who scored 14 points on 7-of-10 shooting, most of which came with Lawson guarding him. NMSU’s other post player, sophomore Johnny McCants, scored 12 points on 6-of-7 shooting, his first college game in double figures.
Things got even worse when KU started doubling. The Jayhawks gave up some wide open 3s when their guards tried to dig in.
And when KU tried to double with a second big, the defensive rotations were often late. Two of the most frustrating possessions for Self were these two late when KU doubled with less than 10 seconds left on the shot clock, which is a no-no.
The good news for Kansas is its next opponent, Villanova, rarely plays through its bigs in the post. The Wildcats do invert the floor and play through their guards — much like they did last year with Jalen Brunson — but Jay Wright is probably not going to change up what he does to put his big men in unfamiliar territory.
Still, the larger takeaway from this game for Lawson is he needs to be better at the defensive end, particularly without Azubuike on the floor. Whether it’s through the post or other actions, the scouting report on Kansas is that Lawson is a guy you can attack.
It’s still early in the season and Self has a pretty good track record when it comes to building elite defenses, but Lawson is going to need to really improve for this team to get there.
-
It feels like we won a game that we didn’t have any business winning.
-
@Hawk8086 We won. Ugly ones count, too. I’m sure the game will give the coaching staff plenty to work on. It will all work out:
-
Hawk8086 said:
It feels like we won a game that we didn’t have any business winning.
Several of those already.
Feels like a shocking early tournament exit kind of team.
-
@BShark Shocking? Not by then, perhaps.
-
Self should love it…he loves winning ugly.
-
This is not the team I expected. Yet we win. I really don’t know how.
Maybe character? Team character? These aren’t bad teams we’re beating.
Trying to spin this in the right direction because I don’t think I’ve seen a Kansas team this messed up since Wiggins’ season here, or late in the 2014-15 season.
I will say that one thing seems obvious here – Self has played the right guys each game. He’s ID’d the guys that will give us the winning formula, from Garrett a few games back, to Lightfoot last night. That’s the biggest reason we’re undefeated.
I am concerned about the Vick thing, and Self summarily saying he just had a bad day Thursday.
We might have three losses if Vick wasn’t playing now.
Most critical in my mind is Grimes. If he’s lost, getting to the second weekend may be a challenge.
But look at our league. It sucks. This discombobulated crew might have only three or four losses even playing like this.
Another thing, it had seemed to me that Doke was causing issues for Dedric. And I know many felt we might play better without Doke (including me). We may need another theory.
DeSousa … just dreaming.
-
@KUSTEVE Nice video. Gives me chills. I probably shouldn’t compare it to the introduction of Les Miles as Head Coach at the University of Kansas, but that was so recent I can’t help it. The comparison just highlights the difference between our basketball and football programs. Ecstasy vs agony.
-
@Gorilla72 Didn’t we play the best with Mitch and Dedric playing together?
-
I believe the charge call on Grime early in the game that invalidated the basket and gave him a foul took the wind out of his sails; he had been playing with purpose up to that point.
A couple of days ago I made a comment that Doke is the perfect match for some teams and a poor one for others and you asked if KU should not play him and I don’t believe I answered that question because there is really no answer.
While Doke can be a defensive liability against smaller teams that score from the outside since he does not defend well against team that stretch the floor, he would be extremely effective on offense against the same team since every time he gets the ball inside, and at the rate he scores from there, particularly against smaller players, it would certainly result in points. You have to weigh his contribution at each end and determine how much he plays on a game and opponent basis. Last night KU desperately needed Doke as New Mexico was scoring and rebounding at will inside without a big inside presence to prevent it.
-
@JayHawkFanToo good point on Grimes. Needs to be smarter on not getting offensive fouls. Liked his energy though.
-
Folks have to, once again, remember that we go through these discussions EVERY YEAR. EVERY YEAR people say “we aren’t making it past the sweet sixteen” or similar things. Last year was a prime example, same thing with the year before, and yet the past three years Self has had his teams playing final four/championship level basketball in March despite looking disjointed or ugly in the non con.
-
Nice post.
I will say that one thing seems obvious here – Self has played the right guys each game. He’s ID’d the guys that will give us the winning formula, from Garrett a few games back, to Lightfoot last night. That’s the biggest reason we’re undefeated.
I like this, and should keep this in mind. You’re right. Self knows these guys and what wins games. You know, one of the interviews earlier this year with Mitch was telling to me, prior to the Michigan State game. Mitch said that there were several things they hadn’t shown yet that they were saving for Michigan State. If we can remain optimistic (and there really is no reason not to. we’re undefeated and have a top 5 coach and top 5 talent, even if we like to pretend it isn’t), we can look at the early commitment to the High Low as us working on the more difficult offense in our bag, and doing it while still winning games, because we can. The 4-1 was always there, and will always be there. Maybe Self just didn’t want to lead with it. Like the Nitro button in a sports car. It’s there.
Another thing, it had seemed to me that Doke was causing issues for Dedric. And I know many felt we might play better without Doke (including me). We may need another theory.
I was there with you. We know Dedric can operate at a high level offensively, but its pretty clear he can’t be the 5 when we need stops. And maybe its on Dedric more-so than Doke to figure out how to work with Doke. If Dedric is the high bball IQ guy that we all think he is, then he could well figure out how the two can operate, space a little differently instinctively, and talk talk talk to Doke.
DeSousa … just dreaming.
I will continue to dream.
-
After all of yesterday’s games this is how the 3 top computer polls stand for the top 10 spots.
Pomeroy:
Here is Sagarin:
and Massey:
Can someone explain to me all the love for Virginia? Both KU a and Virginia have the same overall record, 8-0, According to Sagarin KU has more wins against top 25 teams (2 vs 1), against top 50 teams (3 vs 2) and KU’s SOS is #9 while Virginia is an embarrassing #315 and yet Virginia is ranked ahead of KU. Pomeroy has also Virginia ranked ahead of KU. I understand it is still pretty early and the rankings will get better with more data but they should at least pass the reasonableness test. At this time and based on what I have seen to date I like the Massey ranking best. Thoughts?
-
@JayHawkFanToo I’m assuming our defense sucks statistically and UVA’s doesn’t?
UVA is what UVA will be. A solid, defense first, grinding team, with average athleticism.
We are amorphous, we could be any team’s worst nightmare in the tournament. We also could struggle against teams that UVA could put away with their D. Our ceiling on offense is much higher than UVA’s. Our ceiling on defense is possibly higher, but our floor is much lower.
-
KU had a big Kenpom boost to start the season due to perception. KU actually kinda sucks, so sites like Kenpom are catching up to that.
-
OMG …we moved from 2nd to 3rd in Kenpom… the sky IS falling.
-
Virginia is an interesting team that as long as it can impose its (slow) tempo it can beat any team but also it can easily be beaten by any other team. When you are playing the #315 schedule out of 353 teams you better have damn good numbers; KU is playing the #9 hardest schedule so its numbers are naturally not be nearly as good.
You can compare Virginia to a semi truck racing a smaller car on a narrow road that goes uphill and half way it starts to go downhill. As long as it stays in front it can block the smaller car and win, particularly when it gets to the downhill portion where gravity allows it to go very fast and pull away. However, if the smaller car gets in front the chances of catching it , despite all its power. UMBC got in front of them last year and Virginia could not catch it and UMBC continued to pull away and won by 20 in the greatest upset in the tournament history.
-
Nope, the sky is fine. If you read my post I indicated I favor Massey who has KU as #4 behind Michigan, Gonzaga and Duke which I believe is about right.
-
Virginia lost to a 16 seed. Lololillolololililololol!
-
I don’t know how to spell LOL
-
@JayHawkFanToo That wasn’t directed to you, or at you. It was directed to those going squeamish at our win.
-
I guess Gonzaga will go down a notch now…
-
After watching Michigan play a couple of times, I think they are hands down playing the best ball right now. It really doesn’t pay to be playing the best ball of the season this early. I just wish We’d show a little more fire at times and not play hard for the final 5 minutes only. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think Nova will mop the floor with us. I hope they don’t forsure and having a whole week to prepare is nice. We shall see.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Our win over Tenn looks a lot bigger now.
-
@KUSTEVE especially w/doke sitting on the bench in foul trouble
-
I didn’t say anything about the game yet (I was at the game so I wasn’t able to post immediately after). After letting it marinate, I think anyone upset with how we just played against NM State needs to think about how Doke would have absolutely owned Aurrecochea on both ends, all day long, and we probably wouldn’t have had the same lull in the 1st half. We just beat a solid team who will likely win their conference and be in the NCAA tournament while missing what would have been our best mismatch in that game.
This was a really good win on a day where we struggled. This team knows how to close out games and they’ve got some fight. I still think this group is special. A lot of room left for growth. I think we’ll see them really come together here in the next three weeks.
-
@Kcmatt7 I agree. Don would have completely shut off the lane for their guy inside. It makes me wonder if Dok’s absence will have much of an effect on Saturday, given that Nova really doesn’t play a traditional post man.
-
Boy that Aurrecochea was a real pain. Couldn’t even come close to pronouncing his name and then he reminded me of that kid from Nova a few years back. But it was troubling that we had difficulty guarding a JUCO big with our post players. I thought those times were gone with this years roster. Apparently not so much
-
@BeddieKU23 You would have thought. Bill compounded the problem though by double teaming him for some strange reason. And give up 6 easy buckets instead of forcing several tough 2s…
Either rotations have to be so good that you can double team in the post, or you have to live with giving up some baskets 1v1. But doubling and not rotating is a surefire way to give up easy baskets.
I will say, how is it that this team is unable to properly rotate 8 games into the season? I’ve seen high school basketball teams rotate better than we do. I just don’t understand how it’s so hard for this bunch.
-
@Kcmatt7 I thought McCants was a pretty scrappy bench guy for them as well. Seemed to give us problems.
-
@Kcmatt7 Our first game w/o the big guy meant Dedric was in different spots on the court, doing different things. It’s going to take time to learn to play differently, since they were just learning how to play another way with Doke.
-
If I recall correctly McCants scored 6 straight point including 2 momentum building dunks.
-
I thought we got away from doubling the post after the Wofford game but that was probably only because film said they didn’t have anyone worth doubling. Aurrecochea made some really good passes, one I remember no look behind his head so I was impressed with his play but also mortified that NM ST post players were having their way with us. I also thought our guards made it way too easy to dump the ball in as well.
That tape is going to be used against KU going forward, especially better teams. Dedric was lucky to have zero fouls in the NM St game. We thought we had post depth this year and we’re already back to running 4 guards. Ugh
-
Best way to nullify a big is prevent the ball from getting to him and that is primarily the job of the guards. Plenty of blame to go around.
-
Yeah I rewatched the game and we really didn’t make it difficult on entry into the post or make it difficult for the post player to set up shop. Almost if that was the plan was to let them live with 2’s. We are a work in progress in almost every phase of the game still.
-
@BeddieKU23 we had post depth when Dok wasn’t injured and Silvio was available. Sometimes you have to adjust to the situation.
-
@BeddieKU23 When somebody with lots of minutes has zero fouls, I usually think they should have been more aggressive on defense.
Errors of omission versus errors of commission. We had a lot of omission in the paint during the first half.
-
HawkChamp said:
@BeddieKU23 we had post depth when Dok wasn’t injured and Silvio was available. Sometimes you have to adjust to the situation.
You mean adjust every year. Its the same song and dance with the post situation.
-
I’m looking at it in terms of Saturday. Villanova knows KU only has 1 good post player which Nova lacks. I can imagine the gameplan will be to double Dedric when he gets the ball and go at him on offense to draw fouls. Wright has out-coached Self in both recent meetings so you know he’s going to zero on something for Saturday. The first game without Doke didn’t really expose the fact that if Dedric can’t play 30-35 minutes a game this KU team is in a world of trouble.
