FBI...here we go
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@BShark This looks like the items used by the prosecutors and admitted into evidence in the trial. I think the Self and KT things were in defense exhibits and things the defense tried but failed to get in.
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No tape on Self. One 5 minute conversation before the wiretap and one 5 minute conversation not recorded when a technical error occurred. As far as I know.
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@JayHawkFanToo Uh, the best it gets is no prison with an agreement on sentencing.
@BShark I think being in prison or a minimum security federal site is a bigger issue for an individual than you suggest. I wouldn’t volunteer. Doubt you would. If fact, I bet we’d both talk a bit to avoid it. You lose a portion of your life going to prison. Folks talk to stay out of that situation.
No one should make the assumption that what we see there at the link, that was the evidence at the trial, is all the evidence that the prosecutor has. The prosecutor could easily have additional evidence he strategically chose not to use. The prosecutor only has to turn over exculpatory evidence.
I’m not suggesting this to be true, just that I would not be surprised if the alleged technical errors in the recording with Self were magically resolved at some point. I don’t trust this at all. Not expecting it. But it wouldn’t shock me.
If this is all they have, combined with the texts we know about, then the only thing Self has to fear are the squealers. And even then, there would need to be some sort of paper (electronic) trail I would think for a charge to be filed. The squealers could have their own “evidence.” Ugh. However, I would think that squealers might have already tried to use that evidence given their case theory. Lots of unknowns.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t mean to glorify prison by any means. There is a lot wrong with the US prison system, and justice system in fact with sentencing but I don’t really want to get into that here. I’m just saying, they can likely get off earlier as well and in the scope of prison times, it’s not that bad.
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My point was that he can do very little time and have Adidas indebted to him or do no time and became a pariah in the business.
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Now that the KU/ESPN smear campaign has ran its course now its back to Miller and UA.
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The FBI involved with improper benefits. Makes zero sense. Did they just not have anything else to do, and figure “what the heck, we’ll chase around NCAA rules violators”? Setting aside the question on whether their presence was legal, the idea of our FBI chasing around college coaches, tapping their phone lines, using thousands of government dollars to find out players are getting paid under the table.
Not Nike players, of course.
The biggest non-story in the history of the sport is KT discussing Zion’s price. You will never hear a peep from the NCAA, ESPN, or anyone about Zion’s price. Dook won’t be asked … neither will the Rat. The way the media is attacking this story is they focusing on Silvio, and aren’t even mentioning Zion’s price. That way, they still disparage KU without bringing up the most potential damaging revelation. The last thing the NCAA wants is to entangle both KU and Dook, so I imagine the worst case is Silvio won’t play. To me, this is our get out of jail free card. This is our chance to make better recruiting decisions that don’t leave us with players so checkered, we don’t even know if they’ll clear. Nobody wanted Preston, but we took him. Diallo had his issues. Cliff ? We’re bringing misery onto ourselves needlessly, imo.
Roy and I have had our differences over the years. The fact he has won 3 national championships doesn’t help. Roy is the best recruiter in the history of college basketball, not because he gets the “very best” recruits…he doesn’t. In fact, there are years where he gets noone in the Top 10. Yet, he’s been to the Final Four twice in the past 4 years, and he’s racking up national titles. In the last 3 years, they’ve had 1 OAD. So, he’s gets good guys, develops them, then they go to the NBA. He’s looking for longevity, so he recruits guys that want to play college basketball. And we chase these questionable OADs, when we could’ve tied that schollie to a less talented player who is going to be around for years to help us. Who was more valuable to our program - Wigs or Devonte? Travis Releford or Josh Selby? Frank or JJ? So, we spend our time chasing talent with an expiration date, while UNC is cleaning up on recruits a little lower on the top prospect list, but are sticking around their program for multi years. Academic scandal aside, I prefer their recruiting method over ours. I’m hoping we will get back to signing the Marcus Garretts, the Big Daves, guys like that exclusively. As much as Dedric is going to help us this year, he won’t be here next year. Same with Grimes. That’s why I get more excited about the Brauns, the Ochais, the McBrydes than the big names. The national championship game was filled with experienced KU players in 2008, again in 2012, and the Final Four last year. Because Nova was able to keep their players from their first national championship in 2016, they were able to cut down the nets again last year ( although they lost a ton this year. ) It’s really the true recipe for sustained elite success.
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@BeddieKU23 There is a lot more smoke around Miller than Self. Be interesting to see how the national media handles that. Also for people that don’t believe this happens at the overwhelming majority of major programs just look at this article and McDermot and Creighton. I mean he seems like a straight laced guy but I would think it is safe to say he was “playing the game”
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@KUSTEVE when 4-5 stars stay 2-3 yrs you can best believe an “agreement” was reached. Roy is smart enough to not be directly involved but those kids at UNC aren’t staying for the “love of the game”.
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@BShark That’s not the same topic. You assume they are all on the take, and you could be right. Recruiting OADs that have clouds over their heads, and whispers of wrong doing surrounding them versus taking someone who is still talented but needs a few years is a no brainer, imo. Weren’t there murmers around Cliff, Diallo, Silvio and Preston before they were signed? Weren’t all 4 of these guys not our first choice, and we lost out on someone good, so we settled for them? I think we’re borrowing trouble…why not go for the guy that will be around to help the program for years, which become our most valuable players to the team? Both UNC and Nova had rosters chocked full of experience, and they have dominated the Final Four for the past 4 years. Neither one of them had a top 5, or maybe even a top 10 recruit during that time. All that talent that Dook and Tucky are stacking up and turning over every year isn’t beating the teams with the lower ranked recruits that have experience.
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I think OU should be the poster child for “scarred by the OAD”. Perfect example : Lon recruits 5 guys, and they all stick around for years, and a guy named Buddy Hield becomes a star. OU gets a 1 seed in the tournament with these 5 guys that had played together for years, and they make their first Final Four since Danny and the Miracles. They get destroyed by another experience laden teams, Nova…but at least they made it. Then the team falls off next year, and they rush to stick a band-aid on it by bringing in Trae Young…OAD extraordinare and certified team destroyer. The smoke clears…Trae is gone for the $$$, and 2 starters end up transferring. And now, they’re picked last in conference. They’re dog meat.
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I’ve been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don’t have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.
I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.
Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby’s, Cliff’s, Diallo’s, Preston’s of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That’s all we can hope for. Don’t get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now
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Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!
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I think Diallo is a great kid, who is terribly poor and needed to move on.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think he is just referring to the fact that we knew he was going to have eligibility issues from day 1.
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@Kcmatt7 but he was worth fighting for?
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I know he went to Selfs HOF induction and regularly comes back. I think if he went to any other college he might not be playing in the nba.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I like Diallo. I think we should have avoided even being involved with his guardian though.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!
When Diallo was officially suspended it was due to improper benefits given to him from his guardian right? That was a joke to begin with imo. We all thought it was his transcripts from Mali
KU and the coaching staff definitely fought for him. Before he signed with KU there was plenty of rumblings his eligibility was going to be something that could be an issue. KU took the risk anyway. I’m glad despite what happened to him he’s made the NBA.
Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don’t think that is 100% acccurate, unless I’m missing someone
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@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn’t that clear KU? No?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn’t that clear KU? No?
Officially It should. I think KU cleared itself by finding the issue and never playing him in a non-exhibition game. That’s what we were told.
The unofficial word is that Preston was never eligible, that KU was appealing the whole time and his amateurism was being looked at by the NCAA. There was never a ruling and Billy left before it all played out. The car crash etc was just smoke to cover up what was really happening.
If that’s really the case I don’t think KU has much to worry about seems how he was already on the NCAA’s radar
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BeddieKU23 said:
I’ve been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don’t have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.
I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.
Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby’s, Cliff’s, Diallo’s, Preston’s of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That’s all we can hope for. Don’t get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now
Trying to upvote this more than once.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don’t think that is 100% acccurate, unless I’m missing someone
KU or Self? I think Self knew the risks when he recruited Diallo, Preston, Cliff, Selby and Arthur.
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@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston … that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn’t add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest “cover?”
I don’t think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn’t tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn’t clear the coaches.
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@HighEliteMajor What if they assumed he was paid, but didn’t know any of the details about how much or what method or by whom?
Is Self then still at fault?
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@HighEliteMajor Somewhere in this mess, I thought I read that KU held him out after the NCAA notified us that there might be a problem. The issue, I think, had arisen out of the info being examined by the FBI.
If so, hiding the real reason could have been to protect Preston’s rep if the info turned out to be bogus. Anything coming out of the FBI to schools back then was likely to have been in the form of rumor, and would have needed to be tracked down and substantiated before any official action could be announced based on it.
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@Kcmatt7 if Self knew he was paid, yes. If not, then no. If it was wink, wink, yea, we don’t know the detail, but yea, we know he got something to come to KU from a third party. Yes, Self is at fault. 100%.
@mayjay Ok, I just didn’t recall hearing of the eligibility issue being known prior to the infamous fender bender. I thought it was as a result of KU’s investigation after Der Fender Bender (a former ride at World’s Fun, back in the day).
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@HighEliteMajor So, fire Self?
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What about Nichole telling billy what to say? I don’t think billy knew, at least not at the beginning. I know!
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@Kcmatt7 Why would you bring up firing Bill Self? Do you hate Bill Self? What do you have against him?
Sorry … just funny to me.
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@Crimsonorblue22 We do sometimes forget that just because they are very good at basketball doesn’t change the fact that they are just kids (or very young, many times immature, adults). Most kids do what their parents ask.
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@HighEliteMajor That’s what I thought lol.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston … that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn’t add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest “cover?”
I don’t think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn’t tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn’t clear the coaches.
He was cleared in one aspect but not another. I don’t remember the details. Maybe @FarmerJayhawk could chime in here please?
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The texts between Preston and his mom appear to indicate the coaching staff did not know about the payments and a deliberate attempt by mom and son to keep the information from them. Preston did not play in any offcial games so I would think KU is pretty safe in this particular case.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston … that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn’t add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest “cover?”
I don’t think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn’t tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn’t clear the coaches.
I will clarify what I wrote.
This is what Ryan on the Phog said about Billy. Ryan has connections to the program.
Preston was cleared academically but his amateurism wasn’t.
He played in all the exhibitions because the expectation was he would be cleared by the opener to play.
The Car crash happened but it was used as a front while they waited for the NCAA to rule on his amateurism. At some point the NCAA let them know the situation and KU appealed on Billy’s behalf.
Whether all of it, some of, or none of it is true it would make some sense on why there was no movement.
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@JayHawkFanToo Right, but in this deal where they try to provide the coach deniability, as everyone seems to think, it would make great sense for the Adidas rep (or any shoe company rep) to make it appear to the player/parent/guardian that the coach doesn’t know. That limits the number of squealers that could implicate the coach. That fits right with how all this was supposedly handled. So the discussions from Gassnola’s end don’t really matter much. He was the main line in the “plausible deniability” defense. But, of course, I don’t know. It would just fit under what has transpired, particularly the interactions on DeSousa.
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My point was that Billy and his mom were under the impression that KU personnel was not aware of the payments and tried to keep the information from them. It also appears that KU personnel were not aware of the payments to Billy’s mom and apparently kept asking Billy questions about it and he did not volunteered any information and the he finally bolted.
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@JayHawkFanToo Yes, I understood your point, which you have reiterated. My point was a separate point, which is a reason why none of that may matter regarding KU’s culpability. Emphasis on may, as I don’t know.
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Poor Silvio. Find that Spanish team and go play young man. You don’t need to be the fall guy in this.
“No, unfortunately, and there’s not going to be any news, I wouldn’t think, in the immediate future,”
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News will come “soon”. Billy Preston soon.
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BShark said:
News will come “soon”. Billy Preston soon.
Sunday? Monday? goshdangitiwanttoknownow
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BShark said:
News will come “soon”. Billy Preston soon.
I had to laugh when I realized that you were NOT saying there would be a ruling on Billy soon.
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Boy I’d like to think they could get a ruling out in the next month. But they’ve slow played the hell out of us before so who knows.
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I’ll take Silvio being done over losing even more from NCAA in some future ruling. Hopefully this is the end. However it’s going to hurt recruiting for a season or two. Self and company need to go the prep school route and grab some more Masons and Devonte types.
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If we don’t find another big, I think we probably need to look at taking a transfer or two.
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Meanwhile in Arizona: https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/board-of-regents-will-meet-thursday-to-discuss-arizona-wildcats/article_9d22c948-dc8f-11e8-9ba8-0faacc4e98c7.html
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Nothing to see here but PR duty
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I’d bet they conclude that he is too expensive to fire.
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No way they fire him with that recruiting class coming in. I agree with @BeddieKU23 this is nothing but a PR move.
