FBI...here we go
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You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That’s over right?
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Kcmatt7 said:
You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That’s over right?
we still do not know what the ncaa will do tho
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Kcmatt7 said:
I’d love to know what Nike is doing differently.
Using offshore accounts?
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Kcmatt7 said:
You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That’s over right?
As far as I know deals are gone as far as guilt or innocence; however, a deal could still be made about sentencing recommendation in exchange for cooperation and/or additional information that will help with future cases.
As I understand…and I could be wrong…this type of cases receive relatively minor sentences, maybe months in a so called “country club” type detention facility where white collar criminals go. Given the relatively small $ involved I would think sentences will be months rather than years.
Hopefully the lawyers can chime in with pertinent information
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Kcmatt7 said:
You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That’s over right?
Only deal they can make now is to roll on others for a reduced sentence if the government doesn’t have all they want on a certain other shoe company.
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@BShark OK, so bud - -now it seems like these guy’s were found guilty right? - - just came on board and reading some comments. - -Sooo now my question is , we know that Coach Self is sitting Silvio -we know Coach said that until this was cleared up Coach will be holding Silvio out, Coach stated that they had been in contact/talking to the NCAA - -So my question now becomes:
They NOT the NCAA but these guys will be givin their sentence on like March 5th is what I thought I saw - - - So we sit Silvio till the NCAA is done with whatever now right? - – So if it takes for them the entire season is done - - I mean Silvio sits until a decision is made I got that – BUT - - - Could we red shirt Silvio this year while we wait OR does Silvio just transfer - -which that wouldn’t make ANY sense - -still wouldn’t be able to play - -OR - - does Silvio leave and try to start on working out individually and try to enter next years NBA draft - - - where do we go what does Silvio do from here? what do you all think? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer73 said:
@BShark OK, so bud - -now it seems like these guy’s were found guilty right? - - just came on board and reading some comments. - -Sooo now my question is , we know that Coach Self is sitting Silvio -we know Coach said that until this was cleared up Coach will be holding Silvio out, Coach stated that they had been in contact/talking to the NCAA - -So my question now becomes:
They NOT the NCAA but these guys will be givin their sentence on like March 5th is what I thought I saw - - - So we sit Silvio till the NCAA is done with whatever now right? - – So if it takes for them the entire season is done - - I mean Silvio sits until a decision is made I got that – BUT - - - Could we red shirt Silvio this year while we wait OR does Silvio just transfer - -which that wouldn’t make ANY sense - -still wouldn’t be able to play - -OR - - does Silvio leave and try to start on working out individually and try to enter next years NBA draft - - - where do we go what does Silvio do from here? what do you all think? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
yes they was found guitlty
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@jayballer73 This result is amazing for KU as far as I can tell.
@mayjay maybe you can chime in as I am no legal expert. BUT, as far as I understand this, since they were found guilty of defrauding KU, as far as the law is concerned KU as an institution couldn’t have been part of the fraud. And obviously Self and Townsy are university employees so as far as this result is concerned, they were not a part of it. I’m not sure how anything happens to Self/Townsy/KU at this point but we will see I suppose.
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@FarmerJayhawk @Kcmatt7 They can also deal for vacating one or more of the charges while not appealing the others, as well as testifying in future trials. The amount of a fine could be in play, too.
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@BShark I have said before, I think it has nothing to do with anything the NCAA wants to do. I was never very afraid of anyone at KU getting hit with criminal charges.
@jayballer73 There is no reason for the NCAA to wait until sentencing UNLESS the prosecutor agrees to a lighter sentence in exchange for the defendants to agree to cooperate completely with the NCAA.
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@mayjay Thank you for your input. The way I see it the defense was trying to argue the coaches were extensions of the university, and they got shut down.
Also I am not sure where they found this judge, but he seemed to be very contentious towards the defense.
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@BShark His not allowing the additional transcripts into evidence might be the vulnerable part of these convictions.
I don’t really miss this stuff, contrary to any impressions I may have given by jumping all over any legal issue. I prefer reading legal mysteries to being in one!
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Matt Scott Verified account @KUTheShiver
Matt Scott Retweeted Ian JoDeCi
It’s good. Using things like normal recruiting talk text messages as ‘proof’ was a dumb defense from the start.
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Realistically and given the small amounts of $ involved (in the big scheme of things), what are the chances that the sentences are longer than a few months? Would it be worth it to the defendants to deal for shorter sentences which might amount to a few months when the option of keeping their mouths shut might result in some corporate loyalty reward down the road that might even include getting their jobs back?
Would the judge not allowing defense evidence result in grounds for a reversal on appeal? If yes, it could take years to sort it out.
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I would think that Adidas would pay them off to not say a word from here on out.
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bill self will have a press conference @7pm tonight to talk about what happen today
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I KNEW it - - I KNEW it. - -the most predictable thing to come. - - doing my trolling – UK boards just going Ape s- - - about the gully verdict - - & North Carolina site boo hooing - - talking about how self should be fired - and how now is the time for the NCAA to lower the boom on Self and KU - -already know why they want to see KU get hammered - they still believe they have a shot for JRE so want to see KU get it
This is coming from home of the fake classes oh look at them thumping the chests lo - -almost comical
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The hand wringing from UNC, UK and Duke fans rings particularly hollow.
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ADAM ZAGORIA@ADAMZAGORIA 9M LEGAL SOURCE FAMILIAR WITH THE ADIDAS TRIAL TELLS ME DEFENDANTS LIKELY TO FACE SENTENCE OF 18 MONTHS - 2YEARS, BUT 2-4YEARS’ IS A VERY REAL EXPECTATION’
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That’s really not much time at all tbh.
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Nope, white collar criminals don’t really get long sentences unless it involves hundreds of millions of $ and lots of victims.
18-24 months out after 8-12 months for good behavior…why even bother trying to get a better deal? It is as good as it gets.
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Coach Self press conference at 7 in Allen field house. - Some local sports talk guys saying kind of curious of what he might say - -almost insinuating they think might have something to say about Silvio. - -I don’t know , they were wondering if they might carry this on espn plus- -I doubt that - but wish I could hear what he has to say on air. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer73 said:
Coach Self press conference at 7 in Allen field house. - Some local sports talk guys saying kind of curious of what he might say - -almost insinuating they think might have something to say about Silvio. - -I don’t know , they were wondering if they might carry this on espn plus- -I doubt that - but wish I could hear what he has to say on air. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Gonna take off his shirt and spin it around while laughing at the haters.
TEFLON DON. Hustlers gonna hustle. Chumps like Pitino get caught.
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Don’t see shit on Bill or KT here.
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@BShark This looks like the items used by the prosecutors and admitted into evidence in the trial. I think the Self and KT things were in defense exhibits and things the defense tried but failed to get in.
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No tape on Self. One 5 minute conversation before the wiretap and one 5 minute conversation not recorded when a technical error occurred. As far as I know.
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@JayHawkFanToo Uh, the best it gets is no prison with an agreement on sentencing.
@BShark I think being in prison or a minimum security federal site is a bigger issue for an individual than you suggest. I wouldn’t volunteer. Doubt you would. If fact, I bet we’d both talk a bit to avoid it. You lose a portion of your life going to prison. Folks talk to stay out of that situation.
No one should make the assumption that what we see there at the link, that was the evidence at the trial, is all the evidence that the prosecutor has. The prosecutor could easily have additional evidence he strategically chose not to use. The prosecutor only has to turn over exculpatory evidence.
I’m not suggesting this to be true, just that I would not be surprised if the alleged technical errors in the recording with Self were magically resolved at some point. I don’t trust this at all. Not expecting it. But it wouldn’t shock me.
If this is all they have, combined with the texts we know about, then the only thing Self has to fear are the squealers. And even then, there would need to be some sort of paper (electronic) trail I would think for a charge to be filed. The squealers could have their own “evidence.” Ugh. However, I would think that squealers might have already tried to use that evidence given their case theory. Lots of unknowns.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t mean to glorify prison by any means. There is a lot wrong with the US prison system, and justice system in fact with sentencing but I don’t really want to get into that here. I’m just saying, they can likely get off earlier as well and in the scope of prison times, it’s not that bad.
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My point was that he can do very little time and have Adidas indebted to him or do no time and became a pariah in the business.
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Now that the KU/ESPN smear campaign has ran its course now its back to Miller and UA.
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The FBI involved with improper benefits. Makes zero sense. Did they just not have anything else to do, and figure “what the heck, we’ll chase around NCAA rules violators”? Setting aside the question on whether their presence was legal, the idea of our FBI chasing around college coaches, tapping their phone lines, using thousands of government dollars to find out players are getting paid under the table.
Not Nike players, of course.
The biggest non-story in the history of the sport is KT discussing Zion’s price. You will never hear a peep from the NCAA, ESPN, or anyone about Zion’s price. Dook won’t be asked … neither will the Rat. The way the media is attacking this story is they focusing on Silvio, and aren’t even mentioning Zion’s price. That way, they still disparage KU without bringing up the most potential damaging revelation. The last thing the NCAA wants is to entangle both KU and Dook, so I imagine the worst case is Silvio won’t play. To me, this is our get out of jail free card. This is our chance to make better recruiting decisions that don’t leave us with players so checkered, we don’t even know if they’ll clear. Nobody wanted Preston, but we took him. Diallo had his issues. Cliff ? We’re bringing misery onto ourselves needlessly, imo.
Roy and I have had our differences over the years. The fact he has won 3 national championships doesn’t help. Roy is the best recruiter in the history of college basketball, not because he gets the “very best” recruits…he doesn’t. In fact, there are years where he gets noone in the Top 10. Yet, he’s been to the Final Four twice in the past 4 years, and he’s racking up national titles. In the last 3 years, they’ve had 1 OAD. So, he’s gets good guys, develops them, then they go to the NBA. He’s looking for longevity, so he recruits guys that want to play college basketball. And we chase these questionable OADs, when we could’ve tied that schollie to a less talented player who is going to be around for years to help us. Who was more valuable to our program - Wigs or Devonte? Travis Releford or Josh Selby? Frank or JJ? So, we spend our time chasing talent with an expiration date, while UNC is cleaning up on recruits a little lower on the top prospect list, but are sticking around their program for multi years. Academic scandal aside, I prefer their recruiting method over ours. I’m hoping we will get back to signing the Marcus Garretts, the Big Daves, guys like that exclusively. As much as Dedric is going to help us this year, he won’t be here next year. Same with Grimes. That’s why I get more excited about the Brauns, the Ochais, the McBrydes than the big names. The national championship game was filled with experienced KU players in 2008, again in 2012, and the Final Four last year. Because Nova was able to keep their players from their first national championship in 2016, they were able to cut down the nets again last year ( although they lost a ton this year. ) It’s really the true recipe for sustained elite success.
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@BeddieKU23 There is a lot more smoke around Miller than Self. Be interesting to see how the national media handles that. Also for people that don’t believe this happens at the overwhelming majority of major programs just look at this article and McDermot and Creighton. I mean he seems like a straight laced guy but I would think it is safe to say he was “playing the game”
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@KUSTEVE when 4-5 stars stay 2-3 yrs you can best believe an “agreement” was reached. Roy is smart enough to not be directly involved but those kids at UNC aren’t staying for the “love of the game”.
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@BShark That’s not the same topic. You assume they are all on the take, and you could be right. Recruiting OADs that have clouds over their heads, and whispers of wrong doing surrounding them versus taking someone who is still talented but needs a few years is a no brainer, imo. Weren’t there murmers around Cliff, Diallo, Silvio and Preston before they were signed? Weren’t all 4 of these guys not our first choice, and we lost out on someone good, so we settled for them? I think we’re borrowing trouble…why not go for the guy that will be around to help the program for years, which become our most valuable players to the team? Both UNC and Nova had rosters chocked full of experience, and they have dominated the Final Four for the past 4 years. Neither one of them had a top 5, or maybe even a top 10 recruit during that time. All that talent that Dook and Tucky are stacking up and turning over every year isn’t beating the teams with the lower ranked recruits that have experience.
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I think OU should be the poster child for “scarred by the OAD”. Perfect example : Lon recruits 5 guys, and they all stick around for years, and a guy named Buddy Hield becomes a star. OU gets a 1 seed in the tournament with these 5 guys that had played together for years, and they make their first Final Four since Danny and the Miracles. They get destroyed by another experience laden teams, Nova…but at least they made it. Then the team falls off next year, and they rush to stick a band-aid on it by bringing in Trae Young…OAD extraordinare and certified team destroyer. The smoke clears…Trae is gone for the $$$, and 2 starters end up transferring. And now, they’re picked last in conference. They’re dog meat.
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I’ve been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don’t have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.
I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.
Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby’s, Cliff’s, Diallo’s, Preston’s of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That’s all we can hope for. Don’t get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now
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Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!
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I think Diallo is a great kid, who is terribly poor and needed to move on.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think he is just referring to the fact that we knew he was going to have eligibility issues from day 1.
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@Kcmatt7 but he was worth fighting for?
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I know he went to Selfs HOF induction and regularly comes back. I think if he went to any other college he might not be playing in the nba.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I like Diallo. I think we should have avoided even being involved with his guardian though.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!
When Diallo was officially suspended it was due to improper benefits given to him from his guardian right? That was a joke to begin with imo. We all thought it was his transcripts from Mali
KU and the coaching staff definitely fought for him. Before he signed with KU there was plenty of rumblings his eligibility was going to be something that could be an issue. KU took the risk anyway. I’m glad despite what happened to him he’s made the NBA.
Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don’t think that is 100% acccurate, unless I’m missing someone
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@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn’t that clear KU? No?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn’t that clear KU? No?
Officially It should. I think KU cleared itself by finding the issue and never playing him in a non-exhibition game. That’s what we were told.
The unofficial word is that Preston was never eligible, that KU was appealing the whole time and his amateurism was being looked at by the NCAA. There was never a ruling and Billy left before it all played out. The car crash etc was just smoke to cover up what was really happening.
If that’s really the case I don’t think KU has much to worry about seems how he was already on the NCAA’s radar
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BeddieKU23 said:
I’ve been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don’t have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.
I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.
Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby’s, Cliff’s, Diallo’s, Preston’s of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That’s all we can hope for. Don’t get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now
Trying to upvote this more than once.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don’t think that is 100% acccurate, unless I’m missing someone
KU or Self? I think Self knew the risks when he recruited Diallo, Preston, Cliff, Selby and Arthur.
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@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston … that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn’t add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest “cover?”
I don’t think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn’t tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn’t clear the coaches.
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@HighEliteMajor What if they assumed he was paid, but didn’t know any of the details about how much or what method or by whom?
Is Self then still at fault?
