Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU
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Yeah, part 2 was getting a bit scrolly. Good call @JayHawkFanToo
Active 2017 targets
COMMITED: Dedric and KJ Lawson. Sit 1 year transfer combo forwards!
No idea: Jeremiah Tilmon
KU has “expressed interest”: Jermaine Cousinard
Nope: Trevon Duval, MJ Walker, Mark Smith, Shakur Juiston
*Seems like Smith’s recruitment is rapidly accelerating and Michigan State is the perceived leader.
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Your thread and you and @BeddieKU23 and a couple of other posters seem to have the most information and the rest of us, less informed posters, just soak it in.
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Active 2017 targets
Likely to commit to KU/KU perceived leader: Thomas Allen
Very good chance: Shakur Juiston
KU has “expressed interest”: Kerem Kanter, Blake Harris, Marcus Evans, Jermaine Cousinard, Mark Smith*
Castin out lines: Jeremiah Tilmon
*Seems like Smith’s recruitment is rapidly accelerating and Michigan State is the perceived leader.
Edited into OP, which will be updated.
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@BShark - - - hootie - -hoot - -long , long conversation lol -but we can ALWAYS talk recruiting lol – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark I just wished we would get some locked down and 100% committed and signed 1st day of signing is on Wedns - -Got a feeling we will get those two - hopefully 3 I really would love for us to be able to get a big natural 5 to go along with Juiston and then get the Allen kid. - -ROCK CGALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I was reading on the Illini SB nation site and a lot of them (fans) were fed up with Tilmon, which is interesting since he’s still in HS and they’re starved for good players in Champaign. It seems just on Monday this week he tweeted that he was honoring his commitment and then two days later says he’s reopening his recruitment. Some were speculating Cuonzo with his Illinois ties could get him to come over there.
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Why would a recruit rather play at Kentucky instead of KU? I get the whole Eastern Time zone thing I guess, but it’s not like they get slobbered over like Duke and North Carolina and so many other ACC and Big East teams do. (Kentucky slobbers all over itself, but that doesn’t count.)
Just can’t figure out the big advantage there. Looking at all our sloppy seconds recruiting efforts thinking, BIKU! Seriously, aside from being in the middle of nowhere, what’s not to like when compared to Kentucky?
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Kentucky has World Wide Wes. I think I there’s a 30 for 30 coming on that topic.
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Looking like Allen will visit Lawrence soon.
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@chriz I guess if I was a recruit (I’ll wait til everyone stops laughing!) i might see Kentucky as a pretty good option. I mean it’s a blue blood, it receives a great amount of attention, wins a lot, regularly plays in the FF. I’m not sure it receives that much less attention than Duke and UNC.
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Marcus Evans is down to Arizona, VCU and Miami according to ESPN.
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@wissox and the SEC just showed up in the post season. Yeah at this point Calipari has the formula down. Recruits know what they’re going to get playing with all one and dones.
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Mark Smith received a Kentucky offer today.
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@chriz said:
what’s not to like when compared to Kentucky?
Maybe the fact that there is no Bourbon Trail in Kansas?
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Nice list! Can we pin this and update…
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Such an odd situation. Tilmon’s recruitment has been one with a lot of twists. In the fall after committing to Illinois there was rampant rumors he’d switch to St Louis (right before signing day) as Travis Ford was trying to scoop up all available talent from the Louie area. He ended up staying with Illinois because the assistant coach who was instrumental in getting him was still on the Illinois staff.
Fast forward a few months and Groce was fired. Assistants free to go. Tilmon says he’s not going anywhere despite what’s happened. Martin becomes the coach of Missouri, Michael Porter commits to Missouri after his dad is conveniently signed on as a coach. Martin has a sister that is an assistant principal at the school Tilmon attends. Martin visits his sisters school “conveniently” for what reason? Maybe because a HS recruit goes there. Basically legal tampering… Michael Porter starts recruiting Tilmon to come to Missouri. MP played AAU ball with Tilmon FR, Soph year.
All this for a player that has not progressed since earlier in his HS career. Last spring he suffered a Shoulder Injury on National TV that sidelined him from AAU ball. This year he was not a dominate post player. Whatever school gets him is getting a solid post talent but not a game-changer or immediate starter unless he goes to Missouri.
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Some really good stuff on Juiston over on the phog. I can share if people want to see…
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@BeddieKU23 Good info. I don’t follow recruiting so that info is instructive. Don’t think we want this kid.
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Edited it into the first post and removed Marcus Evans since he is no longer considering KU.
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@BeddieKU23 please share
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Not news in terms of “he’s coming to KU” although that is something I hope happens soon. But people that have watched him play all year have some nice praise.
Good summary, and I’ll add: can lead a fast break (really fast in the open court and handles very well), can get points by driving to the basket (help defense HAS to rotate over or it’s going to be a monster dunk; his first step is lightning fast, and he can crossover his defender with ease), and he makes several passes per game that you say “wow” because of his vision and touch, whether it’s an outlet pass or a high-low pass where he zips it through a tiny window. I saw him in 9 or 10 games, and I don’t believe I saw him hit a jump shot beyond 10 feet – not that he took more than a few. Coach Eck pretty clearly had told him to drive it every time he had an opening.
Not to be pollyannish in projecting him at the next level – he would struggle at first with some of the man-to-man concepts that Self wants (when to show, when to help, when to switch, and especially boxing out), and the scouting report on his offense is going to be “force him to take an outside shot.” (Regarding the latter, if you give him any space at all, his counter is to blow by you on the way to the rim.) I think he’s clearly better than Coleby and Lightfoot, and he could be an interesting complement to Preston (that would be a REALLY fast and good ballhandling lineup).
A-game Carlton Bragg is better, but median Carlton Bragg is not.
Finally, Shakur is a very, very competitive guy, channeled through a Frank Mason stoicism most of the time. He gives good effort every single game, and you know that there is a base set of skills that you are getting every time out, especially elite rebounding. He is someone that Coach Self could put into a game and know exactly what he getting from him (with a few bonuses from good passing, steals, etc.). He is a tough guy who likes contact and is a Bill Self kind of player.
Poster asked:
Is shakur juiston a legit 6’7 or did Hutchinson add an inch or two to his height?
Answer:
I stood near Shakur during the net cutting after the championship, and I think he’s a legit 6’7" in shoes. He IS a little short to play PF at the KU level, but he is taller than Traylor, with broader shoulders, and he’s a quick and powerful jumper who grabs the majority of his rebounds above the rim, so he plays bigger than his height. He likes to bang in the post and plays a physical game. Anybody can feel free to chime in, but I’m going to guesstimate Shakur’s weight at 230
Poster:
I think there are a couple of posters who are really really promoting this kid. Why weren’t we after him since day 1 instead of now after we missed on other targets if he is this super great impact player chimchim and hhhawk are making him out to be?
Answer:
I’m not a scout. Juiston wasn’t even starting for Hutch last season, and he is now being talked about as their all-time player, so I think it’s fair to say that he “blew up” as a sophomore, as unlikely as that trajectory may seem. Kudos to Iowa State for seeing the potential last year. I’ve talked with some long, long-time Hutch Juco fans who go back to the '60s that say he is the best they have ever had, which includes Kadeem Allen (2nd-team All-Pac 12 this year) and former KU player and McD’s AA Ben Davis. He dominated the national tournament, which is full of guys that are going to play D-1. (Typically at that level, each team will 5 or more future D-1 players, albeit often at the Murray States of the world.) I would actually be a little cautious in reading into that that he will start from day one at KU. He can’t shoot from outside about 8 feet and Juco defense is not high D-1 defense. He is going to look lost at times, until he is grabbing rebounds above the rim or leading a fast break and not having to think about everything. I would however feel confident in saying that if you give him 27 min/g, he is going to get 8 rebounds next year at D-1, plus he will have several “wow” plays per game where you think, man, if this kid could only shoot. And I feel confident in saying that he is flat-out better than Coleby and Lightfoot, and it’s not even close. He’s probably not better than the Stanford grad transfer, if that’s an option. I think conservative expectations for him next year would be: 1st big off the bench, 22 min/g, 5 pts/g, 6 reb/g, 2 assists/g, 1.3 steals+blocks. Not an impact player, necessarily, but reliable and has a plus-plus skill in rebounding that earns him minutes. Starts as a senior, maybe 12 & 9, and that may be lowballing his rebounding. Not a future NBA player, but he’ll make money playing somewhere. I did see Mario Little play at nationals; Shakur is hands-down better, and you can see it in 5 seconds.
Another Poster/Answer: This poster is the play by play announcer for Hutch
Shakur is, I believe, a legit 6-7. He is an amazing rebounder who plays above the rim. For his size he handles the ball very well in the open floor and in traffic. He has great court vision and loves to get his teammates involved offensively so he has a high assist total for a big man. Additionally, he was the team leader. His teammates think very highly of him. He is humble and a thoroughly nice young adult. At the recognition evening for HCC’s National Championship, Shakur was at the microphone for nearly ten minutes in front of 1000 fans so he will represent his school positively.
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Any word on the Lawson brothers?
From what I read on the Shiver, it may be worth any baggage they bring. Some stud recruits coming down the line in that family. 2 brothers and 2 cousins or something crazy like that. And all 5* recruits…
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Nothing yet about what schools they are looking at
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So, give me the REAL poop. - - - What is your Bottom line on Shakur Juiston? - -Do you think we actually have a legit shot at him?
I think it’s about 50/50. - -He has scheduled his visit with Iowa state, and they are the other competition that I see for him. - - The only thing is - - that made it kind of sound - -NOT SO GOOD for us was, that he was really impressed that Coach Prom had been the one recruiting him - - His Coach said that Shakur had really taken notice of that, and they have been recruiting him hard for quite some time - - I dunno, whatcha think? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Yes KU has a shot. It’s KU or ISU based on everything I’ve read.
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Blake Harris ended up at Mizzou. I take back anything nice I said about the kid for that decision
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Duke insiders have started to mention Duke with Devon Dotson. They think he’s moved up their board… It’s still likely that Duke is going to land Tre Jones (Tyus lil brother) and Garland so it may be nothing more then talk, but the recent talk of Dotson on their board is gaining more traction. If Duke enters the picture, hard to imagine we have any chance after that.
They also feel confident with Grimes even though mostly everything out there is KU has a good chance there. Not sure whether these guys are just sunshine pumping or what.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Blake Harris ended up at Mizzou. I take back anything nice I said about the kid for that decision
Ha.
When I first read about this when it came across twitter I was thinking really you can’t do better than this? I’m not sure why anyone thinks Martin will win much of anything at MU. We are talking about a coach that went 23-11 with Jaylen Brown, Ivan Rabb, JR Jabari Bird plus a couple other experienced guards.
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It makes sense following Porter for his one year. I don’t think he landed somewhere where he’d start with Phillips back but he should play a bunch with the transfers to Hughes and Walton. Martin is a great salesman apparently.
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@BeddieKU23 how many guys are going w/porter and Harris?
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Could be at least a few more. Looks like they have 2 more spots open at the moment.
Tilmon seems likely as long as Illinois doesn’t try and prohibit him from going there. That could happen with all the talk of Martin visiting his school and recruiting him while he’s still signed to Missouri.
Knox seems like a longshot, more likely Duke or UNC.
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Same story at all his stops so far. Good crootin, bad basketball.
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Updated OP removing Harris and moved Mark Smith to “Nope”. He visited MSU recently and reportedly loved it, plus they really need him. Only actually removing players once they commit though.
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@BShark @BeddieKU23 Knowing you have DG back, do you test the waters with… Waters? Isn’t he likely not to qualify academically his first year?
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Waters has academic issues? That is the first I’ve seen of that.
Some rumors out there were that his dad was an issue (helicopter type). I think the majority that has been reported on Waters is KU is not recruiting him even though he visited in the fall. Waters probably wants a situation where he can start given his ranking which is unlikely at KU.
Has the staff even reached out to another 2017 point guard this spring? It seems like the 5 that are left for Duval are not upsetting him in any way by recruiting other point guards. Maybe there’s some behind the scenes contact with some potential targets but it does seem like nobody wants to lose out on landing Duval by recruiting others.
I honestly think KU will try and get a graduate transfer point guard (after the Duval announcement) that’s looking to win in his last year. We have potentially 4-5 guard/wings but no backup to Devonte. All the current options have a lot of question marks. Someone who could provide a steady 6-10 minutes a game would really help this team out. Another benefit to getting a graduate transfer guard is he doesn’t hurt 2018 recruiting for elite level guards. The Italy trip would also benefit said transfer as they integrate into the team.
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Smith landing at MSU would be a good situation for both. They need someone like him. I think he fits the Michigan St mold well
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Kevin Knox visited Columbia and MU is going strong after Tilmon. If both sign with MU, it’s class will challenge U.K. The entire saga at MU stinks to high heaven; something really fishy going on. I bet even Calipari is wondering what is going on in Columbia.
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This whole Billy Preston thing has me concerned. A lot riding on him being in the mix. I’ve heard nothing positive on eligibility since the rumbles the other way.
Five high schools in four years.
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On the other hand, we have not heard anything negative either. Is this a case where no news is good news?
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Yup.
What do we take of Self’s comments here.
Bragg’s departure opens up another scholarship and Self recently told the Journal-World he would like to add “a quick-twitch 4 man” to back up incoming freshman Billy Preston.
Sounds like he’s confident Preston will be here playing and starting…
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@BeddieKU23 I love the grad transfer route to fill holes, personally. Because, like you said, you get an experienced player that doesn’t mess with the next years recruiting class.
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@BeddieKU23 @JayHawkFanToo – You both have lessened my concern a bit. But you know, until we get word that he’s been cleared by the omnipresent “Clearinghouse”, it’s just there.
That said, a “quck twitch 4 man” – Traylor-like? Athletic? Not a sloth or lumbering guy?
Don’t we have that in Lightfoot (I thought)?
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@HighEliteMajor said:
That said, a “quck twitch 4 man” – Traylor-like? Athletic? Not a sloth or lumbering guy?
Wouldn’t Kevin Young be described as quick twitch? Lightfoot still seems to be learning where and when to twitch, but I think he will eventually (next year maybe, jr year for sure) really be entertaining.
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@HighEliteMajor I would have been worried if he committed in the Spring. But we have had 4 months to look at his transcripts and sort them out. I would bet that he is taking online classes right now to make up any core classes he is missing. And then he can finish up whatever else he is missing this summer.
Diallo waited until the Spring to sign. That created a huge mess because we didn’t get his transcripts until May or June. Not enough time to 100% get him cleared. I mean $100k later I guess it worked out… But to me this means Preston has had plenty of time to get eligible.
Here are the core required classes to be eligible:
- English: 4 Years
- Math: 3 years of Algebra 1 or higher
- Science: 2 years of science classes
- Social Studies: 2 years
- Additional: four courses of either Math, English or science class. And 8 courses of either English Math, Science, social studies, foreign language, comparative religion or philosophy.
We KNOW he will get at least 1 year of English, Math, Science and Social Studies at Oak Hill. He probably will have gotten another year of all of those somewhere along the line at his former high schools.
So, if he has 2 years of English, 2 years of Math, 2 years of science, 2 years of social studies than he is at the most, missing this:
- 2 Years English
- 1 year Math
- 12 courses in a combination of Math, Science, English, Social Studies, Foreign language and a Comparative religion or philosophy course.
If he got to Oak Hill and they knew he had eligibility issues, they would have enrolled him in the easiest credit earning classes that also count. So he would be taking 7 courses that he needed to count just at Oak Hill. In theory, he would also be enrolled in an accredited online school, taking an extra 2 classes.
If this is what they did and he was serious about being eligible he should only have 1 year of Math, and 5 or 6 other courses left to take. It would be possible for him to pass all of those classes. But tough. If he had ANY other classes at any of his previous schools count, he could very easily qualify with a few classes this summer.
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@mayjay I would take Kevin Young, yes … good thought on what we might be looking for.
@Kcmatt7 Thanks for the info and good point about being an early signee. Time to fix a mess.
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Honestly I’m just as concerned as you about Preston. But I did find Self’s comments interesting in response, almost makes it sound as if he knows something the public doesn’t about his eligibility.
We will probably know around the time practices start up for the Italy trip whether he’s good to go or not . I don’t believe he’d be able to play on that trip if there is a hold up. The wait continues whether our concerns are overblown or not.
The “quick twitch 4 man” sounded like he was indirectly saying Shakur Juiston. He’s a quick twitch 4 man that Self is after…
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Talk about small ball…
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
Kansas would like to play Trevon Duval w/ Devonte Graham and Malik Newman & have multiple ball-handlers, per source.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Honestly I’m just as concerned as you about Preston. But I did find Self’s comments interesting in response, almost makes it sound as if he knows something the public doesn’t about his eligibility.
We will probably know around the time practices start up for the Italy trip whether he’s good to go or not . I don’t believe he’d be able to play on that trip if there is a hold up. The wait continues whether our concerns are overblown or not.
The “quick twitch 4 man” sounded like he was indirectly saying Shakur Juiston. He’s a quick twitch 4 man that Self is after…
If Missouri can get Ricky Clemons eligible, and KU can get Cheick eligible, I’m not overly concerned about Preston. It might take some summer school, but it should be very doable.
Definitely referring to Juiston.
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Did Clemons by chance go to schools that no longer exist? That’s my biggest concern is the NCAA just throws out anything to do with Prime Prep/API and his associated classes from there.
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https://twitter.com/929espn/status/851471799296684032
https://twitter.com/929espn/status/851477984578068481
@BeddieKU23 said:
Did Clemons by chance go to schools that no longer exist? That’s my biggest concern is the NCAA just throws out anything to do with Prime Prep/API and his associated classes from there.
He made up like 24 credits over ONE summer. I mean he didn’t REALLY but yeah.
