Mason
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I think Frank and Josh have been great. Devonte is the guy I worry about and am often not pleased with.
Devonte may be our most talented guard, but he refuses to go alpha-dog enough and we really need him to produce every bit the same level we get from Frank and Josh.
The idea is not to have one player hang such huge stats so other players can coast.
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@drgnslayr You said it- I thought it.
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@drgnslayr 10 points to Gryffindor.
I think DG has settled. He has quit taking his man off the dribble. He is too content just passing the ball around and getting his 8-12 points.
He’s too good to do that. He has the talent to go for 25 in multiple games a season.
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@drgnslayr I was amazed in reviewing the stats from last game that I think Devonte shot 50% for 10 points 7 Reb and 6 assists. It seems to me that our expectations for devonte might still be so high that some games he’s being the glue we need and we aren’t giving him any credit for it.
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I’m okay with him getting more assists over points. I don’t care if most of what he does even shows up on stats sheets.
What I’m talking about is the “eye test” and he hasn’t been passing my eye test. I have probably higher expectations on Devonte more than other fans. I know what he can do and he should be a guy the entire country is talking about. He is that good.
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@drgnslayr Against KSU. Devonte Graham 7 boards, 6 assists, 10 points to include 4 for 4 from the free throw line down the stretch. He is plenty alpha for me. He also is deferring to Frank and Josh knowing that this is their last year. Devonte Graham is an extreme Alpha. I am so impressed with his play. He can take over games when needed and he can get other’s involved. He is a great leader and I hope he comes back and leads us again next year.
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@KansasComet I agree DG has been a stat sheet filler because that’s what we need from him with JJ and Frank scoring well. He had some bad TOs other than that he was good.
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Agreed. Also, it might be counter productive to have too many alpha dogs…
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Really good points.
I think the most frustrating part of watching Devonte is seeing the inconsistency in his production. He tends to be really involved early in games and when he’s on he is phenomenal but some games he has long scoring droughts to the point where you forget he’s even out there. I think that has been unexpected especially after we saw him carry this team during some games last yr.
My other point is he forgets to be aggressive to the hoop. Graham has great vision and sometimes settles for that jumper too much. Again I think sometimes we are just not seeing his full game and he’s settled into a role. I would love to see him drive and draw fouls or drive and dish or finish because he’s been good at the rim when he is aggressive. Not to take away what he’s giving us, I just feel like he can give us more.
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@kjayhawks It’s nice to have so many scoring options on this team. Svi, Vick, Lucas, are capable scorers in addition to Jackson and Mason III. We have options and we are moving the ball pretty well. There have been some unforced turnovers lately and hopefully they get that together. Bragg appears to have gotten things going in a positive direction. He looked good vs KSU. As far as Graham, I think he is doing exactly what his coach is telling him to do. He keeps the ball moving and he picks his spots. Whenever we need a defensive stopper, Graham always seems to be up for the challenge. I love the way he takes over games on defense.
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@Kcmatt7 We need him to get back to where he was. - -not that he is terrible, But like has been said he just isn’t in the aggressive mode. - -There have been times like where he has went off in the 1st half and then the 2nd half - -nothing. - -It’s almost like he is thinking well I better get my team mates the ball and seems like he doesn’t even look to score. - -we need his production for an entire game, not just half – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@KansasComet ya svi has really improved on putting the ball on the floor. I still wish we had a low post scoring threat but obviously we can make it with LL and Bragg keeping the defense honest. The turnovers are getting a little much was a big reason ISU beat us. 12 at KSU ain’t bad considering we had 5 in the first few minutes, then cleaned it up. Rebounding continues to worry me, 21 second chance points for KSU was why it wasn’t a blowout. First shot defense was probably the best it’s been all year last night.
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@kjayhawks Good points. I think we will be a tough matchup for any team come tournament time!
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Of course there was always the cramping issue this year, and I wonder if there’s an injury as well. Either way, love the dude, expecting great things the rest of this year and next.
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@approxinfinity said:
I was amazed in reviewing the stats from last game that I think Devonte shot 50% for 10 points 7 Reb and 6 assists. It seems to me that our expectations for devonte might still be so high that some games he’s being the glue we need and we aren’t giving him any credit for it.
Devonte made 6 points from the field, IIRC. I love that he’s willing to be a roll player… And his rebounds and assists (and clutch free throws) show that he’s finding ways to impact the game other than through scoring.
However, anyone who is shooting 50% or higher from the field is welcome to take more shots.
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- D. Manning-2,951, 1985-88
- N. Collison-2,097, 2000-03
- R. LaFrentz-2,066, 1995-98
- C. Lovellette-1,979, 1950-52
- S. Collins-1,888, 2007-10
- D. Valentine-1,821, 1978-81
- K. Langford-1,812, 2002-05
- P. Ellis-1,798, 2013-16
- P. Pierce-1,768, 1996-98
- D. Robisch-1,754, 1969-71
The current All time top 10 in KU points scored. I’m having trouble finding a ton on assists besides Miles holding the school and B12 record with 954, Mason has 511 now. Obviously he’s not gonna catch Miles but Miles played much more as a freshman and wasn’t near the scorer Mason is. Depending on how many games we play its not outta the question for him get to Sherron in 5th place on the scoring chart.
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Question, lets say Mason gets to 1800 points (1622 current) and 500 rebounds (451 Current), with all ready having 500 plus assists. Would that make him the first 1800, 500+ and 500+ player in our history? JW I could see a Langford, Valentine or a Manning having done that.
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@JayHawkFanToo thanks
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@JayHawkFanToo The fascinating thing about that chart is that two of the top 12, #3 Cedric Hunter and #12 Mark Turgeon, were there at the exact same time, 1984-87.
And from 85 to 87 they overlapped with that little guy at #19, kid named Manning, whose scoring might have had a little to do with Hunter’s and Turgeon’s places on the list.
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This is the tweet @HawkChamp was referencing from Luke Cooper. https://twitter.com/LukeCooperHD/status/829012734389915649
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I believe it would make him the first.
At his current rate catching Sherron Collins is within reach. I can see his scoring average going up as we hit March because this team is really going to rely on him.
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Unreal, unreal, unreal. The Towson Gaurd that fell into our lap ends up being of the best all time in this wonderful history we have.
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@BeddieKU23 Yes it looks like it. Valentine may have gotten the shaft because they didn’t keep assists as a stat back then.
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At the end of lasts season Mason had 389 assists, this year he has 122 and averaging just over 5 apg. There are 7 Conference games left, 1-3 Conference Tournament games and 1-6 NCAA games if KU goes all the way to the final That is a total 16 games left. If he averages the same 5 apg, that would add another 80 so he would end the season with around 200 assists.
Add the 200 to the previous 389 and he finishes his career right around 590 or close to 600. This would place him in 6th place between current #5 Valentine with 609 and #6 Tyshawn with 575. It is possible that he can overtake Valentine for 5th but doubtful he can catch #4 Hinrich with 668 since he would have to average over 9 apg the rest of the way and go all the way the NCAA Finals.
No question that passing Tyshawn is likely even with only an elite 8 or maybe even a sweet 16 run, passing Valentine is doable but all the right things need to happen and passing Hinrich is unlikely.
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Yes they did. See my post above and the KU All-time leaders graph farther up.
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No assist #'s before '75? I wonder how many JoJo averaged? Block #s for Wilt would be cool too. Is there tape of all the games? Could someone in fact go back and get the stats?
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Going to be an impressive career for Frank when its all said and done. Top 10 in points and assists is something I never imagined he would have at the end of his career. Even more improbable is the POY talk.
He’s going to win the Cousy award for best PG, he’s already cemented 1st team All-American, Big-12 POY, 1st team Big-12, 1st team Big-12 defensive team. If he added POY, Final 4 MVP and a National Championship he will have a strong case for one of the best hawks to ever put on a jersey. Crazy!
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Absolutely. He is the poster boy for staying 4 years and improving every year by leaps and bounds. Interesting that just now we are starting to notice how good of a career he has really had. Up until this season, we knew he was very good but not this good. No doubt one of Coach Self"s better recruits if not the best.
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This is what he does every game!
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“He can take over games when needed and he can get other’s involved.”
Yes he CAN. So WHEN will he?
His stats are okay. Would you settle for “okay” stats from Lebron James?
Devonte isn’t Lebron. No question. But Lebron is an “alpha dog.” Even when he has a bad game his presence is known.
Like I said… if this was someone else… if this was Vick or Svi… I would be thrilled with his stats and activity.
I just happen to believe he is a much better player than we are experiencing. I’m posting on this because I ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is much better.
Heck… when was the last time a sportscaster even mentioned Devonte? Back in November? When everyone was touting what a great guard combo we have? Now the talk is all Frank. Frank is an alpha dog, not Devonte. Same with Josh… alpha dog and being mentioned.
I’ve said this for months now… DEVONTE is the key to this team’s success in March. You raise his play to that of Frank and Josh and no one has a chance of beating us in March. No one. He doesn’t need to score like Frank or Josh. But he needs to put the scoring pressure on, if for no other reason to help free up Frank and Josh. And through driving and being alpha, the floor will open up for all our guys.
Devonte SHOULD be our best driving guard. He has the handles, more size than Frank, and he can drive on either side.
How about Devonte driving and kicking to a wide open trey for Frank or Svi? Both should be getting more and better looks from trey.
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@drgnslayr I think his issue is deferring to other guys and not wanting to be selfish. I hope he decides to show what he is capable of real soon. March is the most important time of the year to play great basketball.
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It was Bill Self directly who coaxed Frank into decommitting from Towson, and committing to KU. Clearly an eye for talent…
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When Townsend was talking about recruiting Frank, they called Frank and asked if he wanted to come visit KU and Frank said, “Is that the court with the big bird in the middle?”
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@Crimsonorblue22 Am I the only person who just now finally got the symbolism of Marcus Smart flippin’ (on) the bird at KU?
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@drgnslayr Devonte Graham is an excellent player and he is doing enough to support his team. This is Frank Mason’s Senior Year, and Devonte is doing a great job supporting Frank as well as Josh. They are both gone after this year. If Devonte comes back, I am sure he knows that it will be his team. Devonte, being the Alpha that he is, stepped up to the line and cashed in 4 straight free throws without a miss against KSU. That’s what Alpha’s do. He also plays great defense. It may not show up in the box score, but I really appreciate his efforts.
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Frank sits 13th on the all-time scoring chart.
1,658 points and counting.
20 points over his last 5 will get him into 10th place going into the Big-12 tournament.
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Frank was able to pass both Perry Ellis and Keith Langford against UC Davis. He currently sits 7th on the all time scoring list with 1818 points just 3 behind Darnell Valentine and 60 behind Sherron Collins for 5th place.
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Nice story on Frank
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Mason needs 23 points against Oregon to pass Collins for 5th all-time on the Scoring List.
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There better not be any question about the poy! My gosh he’s incredible to our team! Maybe for the first time EVERYONE saw that last night! I repeat, to our TEAM!
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Another award The National Association of Basketball Coaches has named Frank Mason a 1st Team All-American and Josh Jackson a 3rd Team All-American!
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@BeddieKU23 said:
On the verge of becoming the 1st Big-12 player to avg 20 + 5 assists a game.
Isn’t that already etched in stone? I thought since they were identifying it as a Big 12 record, and the Big 12 season is over, that it is in the record books.
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@nuleafjhawk He started this thread 2 months ago.
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Here is a ESPN story about Mason being the leader. Swanigan is second followed by Heart, Ball and Motley. No question that barring a complete collapse by Mason and Ball suddenly averaging 40 ppg, neither of which is likely, Mason should get the nod.
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I think I read today Mason is one of only six players to score at least 25/7/7 in an NCAA tourney game. He is one bad man. #BIFM
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@nuleafjhawk But it was Big 12 players in a season, not just the conference season.
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@mayjay meh…
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@JayHawkFanToo If you (Ball) didn’t even get POY in your own conference (PAC whatever) I wouldn’t think you’d have much chance to be named as Naismith winner. Where as, BIFM is Big 12 POY, plus numerous other POY awards, not to mention his stats so far in the tourney, he should be a lock.
