Best posts made by mayjay

I think I am glad I was able to deal with all the great traumas in my life–my failures, my decades of depression, my disappointments, and my inability to meet the expectations of others–out of the public eye. With that perspective, a few impressions:

I look at Grimes, and it is obvious he is clueless about how to be that fluid 1st rounder, and how to fix things when the game is going too fast. I see a guy who would have benefitted from expecting to develop more gradually, but modern cbb doesn’t allow that anymore.

I look at Dedrick, who has put up AA stats this year despite inconsistent passing to him and with no help in the post where he has been forced to play as the only big, and I see people questioning his effort? or his character? And I think, wow, has he ever complained? Is his stoic expression more important to people than his single-handedly keeping us as competitive as we have been?

I look at Mitch and wish he had been allowed to play the small forward position, and I marvel at his ability to stay enthusiastic. Despite having to come in as a 1.5 ppg undersized player expected to turn it around in the middle when everyone is floundering.

I look at Charlie Moore, and the only flaw I see is that he tries too hard, goes too fast, and tries to change every game with boneheaded “hero” shot selection. His passes would have led to twice as many assists but for the team’s crappy shooting.

And Vick. I look at Vick, and like everyone I wonder what is going on. If it is a mental issue, it is largely beyond both his control and his own understanding. If it is emotional distraction from outside, I can only hope he can learn to deal with it–maybe getting out of the glare will help. I see someone whose face alternates reflecting either a wild fierceness or a bizarre disconnect to the game around him. I see someone whose talent belies the ropes holding him back. And I wonder how heavy it may be for him, knowing at times he is the savior of the team and at other times the anchor dragging the team down.

Finally, I see fans dealing with seeing a team of lofty expectations appearing to dismantle as we watch. Disappointment, anger, cynicism, hopelessness and helplessness all combining to just sap the joy out of us.

I know 2 things, going way back to my very first post a couple or three years ago: those kids are out there trying so freaking hard, and they are vastly more crushed than we are when they lose. So, I am going to do what I can to remind myself that there is always a lot of fun watching KU, and that I can be both disappointed and appreciative for the team, and that if this year is a bust I guess reality had to come sometime. Almost a decade and a half of championship ball (conference AND an NC) is something no other fanbase has ever had. I refuse to let the possibility of it ending get in the way of my unbridled pride in the kids who have made it possible. I hope I never join KU’s enemies by thinking of ANY KU team as losers.

If the suggestion to designate Gr-asshole-nola as a booster as a hypothetical truly came from the NCAA, I think this is all a lot of worrying over something that won’t be as much of a slam dunk as KU and fans are fearing. Here is why:

First, assuming it is true that the NCAA would not consider SDS’s petition for reinstatement without KU agreeing to the hypothetical, that would mean the NCAA was not willing to perform its job without exacting this designation. Courts generally don’t get into second-guessing private organizations’ adjudicatory processes except when an organization does not follow its own rules. To allow deference, those rules must set out the procedures to be followed, must meet minimum standards of notice and right to be heard, and must require initial judgment or appeal to be decided by impartial adjuicators. Here, the NCAA’s rules require determinations on eligibility, both preliminarily and on reinstatement. The NCAA cannot possibly extort a procedural advantage in another case before doing its job.

Second, I fail to see how a hypothetical for one purpose could be used in an enforcement case. A hypothetical is not an admission, and it is not evidence, so it has no res judicata effect. A hypothetical in a circumstance like this is like a statement made in a settlement discussion–it cannot be used in court against the person making the statement.

An example: Victim falls on a sidewalk and is injured. The claim is made that the property owner negligently failed to clear ice from a storm several days before. In settlement conference, the owner breaks in to the lawyers’ negotiations and says, “Okay, if I didn’t clear the ice because the sidewalk was closed, how much do you want?” His statement cannot be offered in any subsequent proceeding to prove he did not clear the ice. Protected–we encourage candid discussions to facilitate settlements.

Here, I can imagine that the NCAA stonewalling involved claiming they would not resolve SDS’s case unless KU accepted a hypothetical to cement Gassnola’s role. KU says, “Okay, if–hypothetically–he was a booster who slipped $2,500 to SDS’s guardian, please determine his eligibility and any sanction for him.”

No way that statement can be used to establish the booster relationship.

I tend to think this story is based on discussions with scared peripheral people who are second-guessing the lawyers because of the brutal 2 year decision, but who have no clue. Chances are, in my view, the lawyers knew precisely what they were doing. I think they have a strong case against any preclusive use of the hypothetical. The NCAA likely knows that, too.

This issue is not something to be upset about. However, I think the NCAA can prove he was a booster without too much trouble, so I think the hypothetical is irrelevant. Kind of like a case I had where the highest military appeals court agreed with me that a certain hearsay statement by an unknown utterer should not be admitted against my client, but it did not matter because my client hand wrote his confession anyway.

If all the NCAA has is the hypothetical, however, KU’s lawyers should go to federal court and stomp their ass. Heck, I am still licensed in Kansas!

Udoka has a long ways to go in most regards but the look is perfected! And, we have to remember, Jeff Withey himself wasn’t Jeff Withey for the first couple of years…

From ESPN:

URI’s Hurley not talking job future after defeat Rhode Island coach Dan Hurley, who sources say is the front-runner for the UConn job, had no interest in addressing speculation about potential openings after his team’s loss to Duke, saying, ‘I could give a crap about who’s got an opening anywhere.’

So, this means he is definitely going, right?

@BeddieKU23 If I used drugs, I might prefer Walton, but I’d rather have Bilas.

“It is unclear whether Jayhawks coach Bill Self will be charged with a coach control violation…”

Well, nice journalism here. I think the whole damn thing is “unclear” since it is just rumor getting repeated based on nothing new since the June statements by the NCAA.

My dad and I watched SB I and IV together (I was 10 and 13 on those), but the only game I remember really well was the infamous Christmas Day game a couple years later when Stenerud broke my Dad’s heart. The Chiefs were no good for the rest of the 70’s and he passed away in 1978.

I started crying today! I was watching all those fans going nuts, thinking, “That’s my city! This one’s for Dad.”

From an alleged newspaper you can find on the Web, or perhaps buy it and use it for lining bird cages:

Traylor to play in Greece

Former Kansas forward Jamari Traylor has signed a contract to play for GS Kymis, a team located in Kymi, on the island of Euboea, Greece, Eurobasket.com and the GS Kymis official Website reported.

Traylor, 25, averaged 10.2 points and 7.0 rebounds per game in 40 games for the Redwell Gunners of Oberwart, Austria, last season. He was selected to Eurobasket.com’s Austrian League All-Imports Team and to the All-Star Game.

He also played 10 games in the FIBA Europe Cup. He averaged 9.1 points and 6.3 boards a game.

I am often accused by people I know of being a great moralist, and of being overly harsh in my expectations and judgments of myself and others. I might exceed the speed limit by 8 mph, but I pay every dime of income tax, don’t download pirated movies and broke off a close friendship when he wanted me to lie about an affair. In short, straight and narrow.

But I think y’all are going way overboard in calling this a program that is out of control, or assigning blame to Coach Howard for Bragg’s infractions. This thread really has degenerated into a massive amount of handwringing and old-lady fainting over a few reported incidents that actually only involve two kids currently in the program. Yet we are being referred all the way back to Giles as an indictment of our team? I will take all the success stories in the meantime as an overwhelming counterbalance to that, or to a DUI here or an embarrassing photo there–any and every day of the year.

Zero tolerance policies are being set up everywhere, and good kids are being kicked out of grade schools for having drawn a picture of a gun. I think HCBS has earned the right to decide who works for him and to use his discretion in evaluating character or administering punishment to athletes or staff.

Please note that if Vick was put on probation for something from 16 or so months ago, that could have been with the cooperation of the athletic department. No indication that it hasn’t been successful. Bragg’s stuff is more serious, but hardly reason for anyone to pull the rug out from the coach.

Take a deep breath, everyone. Please!

Of course, if the rape incident involved a player, and if it was known to the staff and ignored like Baylor’s football players, I will retract this post and light the torches myself.

@Bwag Well, you can keep calling it uncorroborated or unsupported, or you can say the earth is flat a thousand times, but repetition doesn’t make what you say true.

Polygraph showing no deception, many witnesses to Kavanaugh being an out-of-control drunk, book by Mark Judge about “Bart” Kavanaugh’s wild behavior, Kavanaugh’s own letter (signed “Bart”) describing his group as loud obnoxious drunks, the calendar, the yearbook, his false testimony about those…Hmmm, he has always upheld polygraphs as a law enforcement tool. Wanna bet he would refuse to take one?

Incidentally, Dems have always wanted more time, more documents, and a more thorough investigation. The Republicans withheld over 40,000 pages of documents and dumped the rest on Senators the night before the originally scheduled vote. Dems have without success provided dozens of names of people to be interviewed, only to run into the Republican brick wall.

Former Justice John Paul Stevens, a Republican appointee to the Court, knows a little something about what qualifies a judge to be a Justice and, after watching Kavanaugh become unhinged in a prepared sworn statement, says Senators should reject him (after initially believing the opposite) due to his partisan and intemperate performance. 2,400 law professors and even the National Council of Churches have said the same. Dems didn’t move the goalposts–Kavanaugh went racing the other direction, almost frothing at the mouth while spouting conspiracy theories and evincing a horrifying disrespect for members of another branch of government, for anyone of a different political bent, and for anyone daring to have criticized or even questioned him.

But all that being said, you might be surprised that I would admit that I do not necessarily believe Dr Ford’s allegation that it was him, or if the details tracked her recollection even if she believed him. There is a fundamental problem in trying to resurrect information about an event almost 4 decades old. That is why statutes of limitations set limits on when claims can be raised–witnesses die, memories fade or get confused, documents get lost (I thought my calendars I have kept since 1984 were crazy!)…it is just impossible to prove guilt or innocence so we don’t try in civil or criminal law. An exception is for murder–and arguably a Supreme Court appointment warrants that higher level of scrutiny.

My personal bottom line from my own experience as a criminal lawyer, as an appellate lawyer who argued in US Courts of Appeals in Florida and D.C., and as a judge for 19 years: I have never before seen someone who is raising falsified claims repeatedly ask–make that literally beg–for a thorough police investigation or pass a polygraph exam given by a former FBI examiner. Fun fact: none of my >400 convicted criminal appeals clients asked us to arrange a polygraph regardless of how vociferously they contended other people had set them up. And, conversely, I have never seen anyone who was innocent refuse to agree to a more extensive investigation, however long it would take, to prove their lack of complicity. Innocent people welcome investigation. I think she believed her testimony, but I do not know without an honest inquiry whether her testimony was in fact accurate.

Still, to me the issue is not whether he did or didn’t do it. The issue is whether his record, his conduct, and his testimony demonstated his status as someone whose integrity and temperament should elevate him to the highest judicial rank in the land. To me, the burden was on Kavanaugh throughout the process, just as it is on anyone seeking such a role. He did not carry that burden, and demeaned himself in the process. All things considered, the country can do better, and has, in finding a brilliant candidate–even a conservative one meeting every one of Republican criteria (except possibly a demonstrated anti-Democrat animus).

So what are Republicans so afraid of?

So, my wife got free tickets to SC vs Alabama. Great seats, huh? At least we are only in the next-to-last row! Just a slight, eenie-meenie possibility we will move down later…

First place? Where the hell is everyone? 50 min until tip!

From Haskin at the Topeka CJ:

"Moneke, their leader with 20 points and nine rebounds, made a point to seek out Self in the tunnel after the game and offer encouragement.

“Go win a title, coach,’’ Moneke said.

Sister Jean rushing the court!

Hi, everyone! This is worth logging in for! I hope people show some appreciation for the administrators and staff who worked hard on this! Does this give Long some much-needed credibility with the faithful?

But I also wanted to wish all of you in the MW well as you go through all these storms. I hope you can all dodge the tornados. So scary–I remember those days, but these seem worse. Stay safe.

Thanks to everyone for keeping up the spirit! See you in the fall which I think we all will anticipate with lots of excitement!

@BeddieKU23 After posting that, I recalled their jinxing of Frank’s FT streak!

@BeddieKU23 @cragarhawk @HighEliteMajor

“They all poison!”

(Apologies for linguistic appropriation.)

Seems like a pretty drastic yet devious method to stop teams from putting him on the line, which has been everyone’s fear here.

I showed my wife the picture of Mitch Lightfoot. Mistake on my part…she will probably make me join a gym. Crap.

To anyone criticizing those of us who would be disappointed if Self or KU participated in illegal recruiting:

Basketball is entertainment. I have spoken before how excited I am to watch KU basketball, but also how I have fun watching players develop both on and off the court. Finding out bad things about KU or the players undermines my enjoyment.

Yes, it involves blinders, and fantasy, but I see no harm in that. Let me analogize: I know the action movies I watch involve CGI and fake blood, and that the good guy characters probably would do some bad things if we saw their lives over 24 hours, and that few movies ever show anyone taking a dump. Fantasy allows ignoring the gritty realities of life.

Basketball is fantasy. My choice, my disappointment when it implodes!

In the years I have been reading here, I have grown convinced that anyone reading this site as their only information source about KU would conclude Self has a losing record, that KU never is better than middle of the pack, and that we are hoping for maybe our second or third victory at best before conference season starts in Jan.

Never saw a more discouraged fanbase for an undefeated team. We really aren’t doing that bad for a team that is understandably struggling a bit to replace three starters and a stuck-in-limbo key sub with freshmen and transfers.

So, KU scandals in the past 15 years…

Ticketgate, Sneakergate, and now Stoolgate.

In thinking about this, what I am most amazed about is that SDS seemed to have handled first the initial eligibility determination delay (when he first came out) and then the whole NCAA suspension (and more delay) with more patience and grace than anyone could have ever expected.

@rockchalkwyo The drugs were available to all UNC students, so no NCAA investigation even if they were directly procured and distributed by the athletic department.

@kjayhawks “It’s pretty cool that in my life time now KU, Royals and the chiefs all have championships.”

We oldsters have lived long enough for 2 championships for each!

He has bounced a couple of times back and forth to the Hornets G League team because he is the 3rd PG in their organization and they want him to get PT (the G League team uses the Hornets schemes). He had 31 points, seven rebounds, six assists and four steals last Saturday for Greensboro. Has only played 19 minutes in 2 games for the Hornets, so he is getting much needed experience. Still, Hornets’ backup Tony Parker can’t last forever at 36 yrs old, can he? So, there may be a space for DG yet this season.

Well, although many people thought it was something he doesn’t ever acknowledge, Trump publicly regrets one of his actions: “I should have left them in jail!”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/sports/lavar-ball-trump.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

PS: On this, I agree with POTUS 100%!

@RockChalkinTexas From what we see here, his best weapon is having you with him with your cheerful and hopeful outlook, and all the love and support you give him. Good luck!

Frankly, I believe that all opinions are equally deserving of deep examination and discussion. Science is obviously a left-wing conspiracy designed to turn man against God, and fortunately anyone seeking knowledge has been persecuted since time immemorial. Our brains are only here to fill a vacant place in the skull.

On a happier note, Pat Robertson, James Matthis, and George Will have all come out severely critical of the Orange Man (sorry for the association, Syracuse, you should have a better name anyway). And it still has little effect on Rush, Sean, Pompousass, Dr. Jeanne Pinhead, or the Even More Deplorables. Sigh…

@RockChalkinTexas As always, your grace in the face of adversity astonishes and inspires us all.

Incidentally, a heads-up: We lost my father in law 3 days before Christmas a decade ago. The funeral director was very adamant about our need to make sure someone stayed at the house during all the funeral activity. Apparently there are some real low lifes who specialize in burglarizing houses after perusing obits for times of services. And Christmas is also a hot season since bad guys know there might be some boxed stuff just ripe for the taking. Five years ago I had a cousin whose parents’ house was hit during their funeral.

I wish you only the best. The love people are sending you reflects the fact that you send it all out to everyone. A lesson for us all!

@Kcmatt7 My wife was wondering why our kitchen reno advanced so much in one day.

@approxinfinity Thanks as always for keeping us in here. It was a great idea to put the twitter updates at the URL.

I think everyone should step back, and try not to speculate. Rumors get started easily when “maybe this happened…” scenarios are offered. Once a rumor gets legs, truth and fairness get left far behind.

@wissox Do you think just maybe it might be wise to wait until the facts are in, or at least more than a couple of newspaper articles and thousands of words of speculation and assumption?

@cragarhawk His cardiologist is probably enjoying it, too. Ours is!

As I count it, there are 3 players who have been implicated in a total of 5 incidents this and last year. Three for Bragg, two for Vick, with one of his overlapping with JJ’s.

That is not “this team” nor is it KU. This is 3 out of 15 guys. I have seen posts earlier from people saying they are embarrassed to wear their t-shirts. Don’t generalize that all of our guys have been involved in malicious or questionable behavior. That isn’t fair to the good guys on the team, the ones who do uphold the classy behavior we want and hope for–the ones who represent us well. Yes, this stuff is impossible to defend, but the program ain’t sliding into Hell.

We just had more guys make Academic All Big 12 than have been implicated in this crap. We can look with open eyes at the bad, but don’t stop being aware of the praiseworthy.

@RockChalkinTexas I am pretty sure we need to get you involved in recruiting. You seem to have been able to get everyone signed!

Link is to an AMP plugin (it is a google viewer or something). Not on SI site yet. Will revise when it becomes available.

Landen Lucas, 6’10” senior forward, Kansas https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/college-basketball/2017/03/07/kansas-landen-lucas-all-glue-team%3Fsource%3Ddam

Not an overreaction to be really disgusted by him running away when, at the time this happened, he was already on double secret probation for the December incident.

Our youngest son, a week after he got his license, got jammed trying to go down a gradual incline in an ice storm. Even at less than 5 mph he slid sideways on a hairpin turn in a housing development that had cars parked on both sides. He called us, really upset. I told him to put a note on the car with our number

He said he didn’t need to. He had gone door to door to 6 houses, without a jacket in the storm, and found the owner. Never prouder of him in my life–except maybe when he adopted his stepdaughter.

I decided to repost this in a new thread because the “sucked” thread’s name really bothers me. I think lots of fans probably won’t even read that one, since it is premised on faulty logic designed to find flaws without solutions. So, here is my take on the wholesale attacks on HCBS based on the fact that he has, boo hoo, lost so many games in the Elite 8:

For everyone saying things like, “the 2-5 record speaks for itself” please consider that it is not so unlikely that it is just a statistical outlier. If we had a 50% chance of winning each game, the Self record could have occurred 21 times out of 128. Unlikely, but not impossible. That is about a 1 in 6 chance.

In perhaps more familiar terms, you would have a 1 in 4 chance to flip a coin and come up heads twice in a row, and 1 in 8 for it to be 3 times in a row. So, the statistical probability of this type of record is between that of 2 heads and 3 heads in a row.

Anyone who ever flipped coins knows you can have streaks far greater than 3 in a row without something being wrong with the coin. Same with roulette: people lose really big thinking a black or red streak of 5, 8, or even 10 in a row means something about the wheel’s characteristics.

For anyone to conclude that Bill’s record in EEs is indicative of a flaw is just simple-minded at best and willfully ignorant at worst. Just consider the fact that if we made about 7 more baskets in a total of about 3 tournaments (especially a rifldiculous number of bunnies in a couple years), the record would be reversed (remember, the final scores sometimes reflect desperation fouls at the end).

A wholesale change of coaching philosophy is not mandated by the fact that players miss some shots, or stumble, or make a couple of dumb mistakes.

Lighten up people. Bill’s record reflects more opportunities because of greater coaching ability, not lesser due to unpredictability of outcomes.

Blown said:

The part that puzzles hme is that they seem to be less than the sum of all of their parts.

I think this puzzle is solved by realizing there ain’t all that many parts–yet.

@HighEliteMajor I was playing golf then. Since that time, I had to get a new hobby. My wife calls this “your little basketball friends group.”

My quick thought is that everybody looked bad after we tried to play 3/2.

My second thought is that Svi must have been sick.

My third thought is that everyone else except Newman must have been sick, too.

I will say that a video shot they showed last night of KU catching and beating WVU showed BP jumping up to bump the players coming back to the bench, cheering like a madman, and exultantly screaming for the victory at the end. That was only a week ago. So, I think we should still give him his due for still giving his buds his energy even if he was discouraged over his ultimate chances. He did not act like someone with a foot out the door.

Gunman said:

Have the coaches told him he should keep his eyes open while shooting?

Why would he want to see this?

Just tried too hard. Probably had to do a concussion protocol after he fell over when they told him to go in.

@HighEliteMajor My favorite comment on the article from ESPN’s stable of fans who comment on every article:

“Whew, Duke is involved so nothing will happen. Thought this was significant at first glance.”

@Bosthawk I would like to see the Streak of 14 broken. NEXT YEAR!

No one, but no one, of the “experts” at TBS, CBS, CBSSports.com and NBCSports.com is picking KU to even get to the NC game, and I think there weren’t any picking us to get thru either M State or Duke. I might have missed somebody, but these kids are loving trying to prove people wrong, so being the most disrespected #1 should be as much of a chip as they could ever want.

The difference between Boeheim’s zone and Duke’s zone was something that is not technical. It is the result of K giving up on his players’ failure to play M2M. And that left these freshmen incapable of making the necessary adjustments yesterday.

It actually brings to mind two things that @HighEliteMajor has suggested in the past when he has criticized Self (1) for seeming to be coaching to win the conference rather than post-season, and (2) for being so stubborn not to adjust to the talents of his teams. I haven’t agreed with him but those twin thoughts provide a great framework for Duke’s abysmal response to our attack.

Here is how those things apply: First, K adopted the zone because he was focusing on how the vaunted recruiting class was being left in the ACC dust early on. Virginia’s stifling defense was overwhelming opponents, and K wanted to try something. The Syracuse zone appeared to be an answer because Boeheim always has length, and so does Duke in spades this year, and it helped even up the slow games ACC teams are forced into with conference leader Virginia. It put Duke back in contention–with Virginia and UNC, but not for the long haul.

But the second point relates to K’s strategy and highlights a huge difference between him and Self. K made the move, as I suggested, not because of what his team could do but because of what they wouldn’t do, and that is buy into K’s long held M2M strategy. Self’s stubornness would have had him blow gasket after gasket rather than total trash his entire philosophy of D. He might be willing to give a zone a try for situational circumstances (fouls, or to force an offense out of rythym) but he isn’t going to give up.

K failed to force the talent on his team to its highest levels. (Compare Self’s approach to Malik that has resulted in him becoming a star.) Instead, he adopted the lowest common denominator. A zone like Boeheim’s is not successful all the time, but it is far more nuanced than freshmen can be expected to perfect mid-season. He has used it literally for decades. K’s zone was ad hoc–and like much ad hoc strategizing, left no room or time or practice for making adjustments to unseen circumstances. Like us.

A final note: I think other teams saw Duke’s adoption of the zone as a monster development as if these future pros were now going to be able to just blanket everybody. They were intimidated by thinking it was brilliant. Self seems to have realized that it was really a flashing neon sign of weakness–of all that great talent going to waste.

kjayhawks said:

@HighEliteMajor I agree for the most part, rewatched some of the game this morning. I’ve mentioned it several times the last few years and I believe it to be true, we do not have the athletes that we need to win in the NCAA tournament (outside of JJ and Mason). Before 2014 very seldom did I come into a games thinking the other team is just better than us in terms of athletic ability, since 2014 it’s almost every game vs power 5 comp. Whomever is evaluating these guys isn’t doing anywhere near as good as Villanova, our recruiting classes have been better more often than not but they look like they have more talent and athletic ability than us.

Wow, a team hitting a lot more shots in one game than they did any other time becomes an indictment of recruiting for a period of years?

I think some people here need a major dose of overreaction antidote.

Well, I finally had a chance to look at the Gatto indictment more carefully, and I fear that all of you who think it is based purely on payments to families or students, or on alleged violations of NCAA rules, are incorrect. The thrust of the indictment is based on conspiracy to defraud by willfully concealing material information (payments) from the victims (universities) to allow the students to obtain something of value (scholarship) under false pretenses (misrepresenting their eligibility to receive a scholarship). @justanotherfan was correct about it being based on covering up money, but it was not really money laundering as we know that term (but future charges could be brought against the recipients if they did so). Federal jurisdiction lies by virtue of the wire fraud and conspiracy allegations.

The key here is the same as any other fraud indictment, that being the allegation that the defendants (and others acting with them) purposely acted to conceal material information from the victims (the conspiracy charge alleges they acted in concert to do so). This can be simplified: Gatto and others provided money to families and/or students that, if known to the schools, would have resulted in ineligibility and not getting their promised scholarships. They are allleged specifically to have induced the recipients (1) to conceal the money from the schools and (2) to falsely certify their eligibility to receive the scholarships.

That is conspiracy and inducement to obtain something of value under false pretenses.

An analogy here: You all may be familiar with the Stolen Valor scandals–people pretending to be combat veterans, wearing uniforms and medals, and the like. Those people were not commiting crimes despite their public lies, so long as they made no attempt to get anything for it. (I do not address the bar drinks they got.) But let’s say I run a home renovating business. I want customers. So, I give a guy a false DD214 discharge paper, and tell him how he can now register at Lowe’s to get their military discount of 10% based on his fake 214, saving thousands of dollars on his $40,000 remodel, and we agree he will pay me a commission on those savings. We have now entered into a conspiracy to defraud Lowe’s by presenting false information to receive something of value.

Violating the Defense Department rules on who is a veteran is not an element of the crime. It is sufficient to prove simply his status as a nonveteran and that he concealed that from Lowe’s both when falsely registering and every time he received something for which by his status he was not eligible.

Similarly, the NCAA’s rules are clear that receiving money from someone to attend a school impacts a player’s eligibility. A player is not eligible to compete until he receives a confirmation of amateur status from the NCAA, in conjunction with information provided to the school and by the school to the NCAA. The actors here worked hard to make sure that the players did not reveal payments in amounts that would made the schools know that the student was not in fact eligible under NCAA rules and rulings. More importantly, the players falsely asserted their eligibilty to get scholarships. Possibilities of appeals and waivers are irrelevant to the status determination. (It is arguable that the feds could have avoided some questions by having the NCAA do its determinations first, but no prosecutor wants to rely on private adjudications with no known timelines.)

I only address here whether the indictment alleges federal crimes and they do. If any defense is raised about whether a player was automatically not eligible until the NCAA made a determination, the answer is that the universities will no doubt swear up and down that no scholarships would have been given if they knew of the payments. Not “if they knew of NCAA amateur rules being violated.”

The existence of the payments was what the universities needed to know in deciding whether to grant a scholarship, which is the definition of a material fact. The bad guys acted to conceal that information, and by doing so helped the students obtain scholarships worth @$40,000 or whatever the amounts would be at each school.

A bigger problem for the indictment is whether the recipients actually have sufficient nexus to the students to render their receipt of money disqualifying. It would be for any parent or guardian (i.e., anyone with financial responsibility to the kid) providing false documents to the school, but if there were any who got money who have nothing to do with a kid’s finances, it seems the Newton rule could extend to that kid’s part of the case. (I don’t think that applies to SDS.)

I will probably need to edit this later, but I need to go to Lowe’s to get my discount.

Fun game suggestion: Let’s all count how many posters on this thread today seem determined to outdo each other going off the deep end before anything definitive has occurred.

Get a grip, people. Wait for facts, and please don’t think your opinions or suspicions are facts no matter how strongly held.

Bitching at each other for voicing differing speculations is a sign of misdirected anger. Is there some sort of race here, or a betting pool, that motivates some posters to insist on the finality and absolute accuracy of their viewpoints?

Wow.