KU Is Not Even A Top 25 Team
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I kept my negativity away from this board as much as I could. I never thought this team was going to finish as a top 10 team. I truly think we are a 10-15 type team and yes we could have some issues winning #15.
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People said the exact same things last year. I’ve never known a player and a team that was so criticized as last year’s team and how did that turn out?
People really need to get a grip and evaluate what Self has done the last three years - start slow then get rolling around February and March, earn a one seed and get to three straight elite eights with a final four.
I remember last year many were saying they weren’t even a top twenty five team as well. How did that work out again??? You HAVE to give things time and be more patient.
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There should be a separate board for anyone identifying with ”Eeyore”.
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@BigBad You may be proven right about only a top 10-15 team…but, in theory, we should be able to win the B12…
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@Gorilla72 do you remember when he had dark side and light side categories? We actually tried that!
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@BShark No doubt it was a poor effort. That game made everyone except Vick and Doke look soft. We’re miles and miles away from being a good team. I didn’t see very much mental toughness- you’ve got 2 playing their heart out, and the rest look tentative, unsettled and mediocre. Lightweights. Pretenders. They have a long way to go before they live up to their ranking.
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HawkChamp said:
People said the exact same things last year. I’ve never known a player and a team that was so criticized as last year’s team and how did that turn out?
We had a senior point guard. HUGE difference.
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Me thinks the concern is premature. Two freshmen playing the 1-2 spots. Pretty important. And Dedric playing for the first time next to a monster, and in a concept, he’s never played in before. We were 4/1 all last season.
I truly have zero concerns right now.
This is all really a chemistry thing and folks finding their roles, adapting the Self’s requirements, etc. He’s starting the best players. It just needs a little time.
That’s not saying I won’ be concerned in late January if our character doesn’t change.
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I agree with High Elite. Playing with basically a new team this year, and a new (old) system, kinda. The bad part is that the two post player system requires freshmen to get them the ball. That’s not working out for Dedric yet for some reason. They haven’t learned how to feed him the ball.
Dotson and Grimes need to learn on the job — fast.
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Next few games will be helpful to see if we’re headed in the rt direction.
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HighEliteMajor said:
This is all really a chemistry thing and folks finding their roles, adapting the Self’s requirements, etc. He’s starting the best players. It just needs a little time.
That’s not saying I won’ be concerned in late January if our character doesn’t change.
I made a comment about this elsewhere. Self is still tinkering. He is trying to find the combinations that work. I don’t think you can have Dotson and Garrett on the floor at the same time, unless it’s 4 out 1 in. Certainly not with two bigs. That puts only one three point shooter on the floor. You can’t get away with that in 2018.
I’m not sure if KJ shot Self’s dog but I’d entertain playing him at the 4 spot more. He’s not super quick by any means but he’s better than Mitch
KU is an okay team right now, but can be much better. Probably always going to give up good 3 pt looks to opposing bigs but can make up for it on the glass.
KU isn’t the #2 team in the country right now but outside of Duke and Gonzaga, no one is great.
If KU goes 2-0 in NY which is entirely possible there wouldn’t be a ton to complain about. This isn’t a perfect team but the talent is there, needs time.
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@BShark I’m having a hard time taking your new avi seriously, reminds me of gene wilder?
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KUSTEVE said:
@BShark No doubt it was a poor effort. That game made everyone except Vick and Doke look soft. We’re miles and miles away from being a good team. I didn’t see very much mental toughness- you’ve got 2 playing their heart out, and the rest look tentative, unsettled and mediocre. Lightweights. Pretenders. They have a long way to go before they live up to their ranking.
man, we are so spoiled - -always want perfection , Now I’ not trying to pick you out - -not at all , but just in general as a whole. - -People have to remember - -these guys we are calling lightweights - -Pretenders - -well we got to remember , , so far our starting back court is Freshman , I mean sure both looked at as pretty highly recruited players. - - but they just doing what Freshmen do , they are going to have ups and downs. Gonna be streaky for awhile , I mean this is ONLY our third game of the season - - -seems like these lightweights didn’t do to bad in the opening game against Michigan St. - -Again going to be some roller Coaster for a bit.
Then you look at Dedric – - KJ - -& Charlie - -had to sit out for a year , only 3rd game – gonna take some time - - - Then you have to have time to be able to mesh as a team - -lots of new pieces , even with Dedric - - and Charlie gonna take time learning a new team and mesh – as Aaron has said - -we just need to R - E - L - A - X
Look at it this way - - When you have Dedric supposed pre season all American playing so so , and still getting what?20 points - - -0 points -& 17 points - - - Lagerald - - what 4 points against Michigan St? – Doke has had a bad game - -and yet we STILL win? - -were gonna be ok. - - time - -just takes some time it’s only the 3rd game - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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HighEliteMajor said:
Me thinks the concern is premature. Two freshmen playing the 1-2 spots. Pretty important. And Dedric playing for the first time next to a monster, and in a concept, he’s never played in before. We were 4/1 all last season.
I truly have zero concerns right now.
This is all really a chemistry thing and folks finding their roles, adapting the Self’s requirements, etc. He’s starting the best players. It just needs a little time.
That’s not saying I won’ be concerned in late January if our character doesn’t change.
Very well said - -straight up - spot on. - -Like I posted earlier , it takes time- -lots of new faces , 3 players just trying to get back after sitting out a year - -3 Freshmen players , ya good but they are freshmen - -going to be streaky - -like a roller coaster for awhile - -good or not - -they are Freshmen. - -Yet look at it like this they played this bad but YET we still won. - -just going to take some time
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark I’m having a hard time taking your new avi seriously, reminds me of gene wilder?
I told you who it is in a previous post lol.
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@BShark I know. But it’s so silly
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@BShark you do keep me guessing, nobody switches from one end of the spectrum to the other quite like you!
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This team definitely looks average at best to this point without Vick going nuts we may have 2 losses but we don’t. We have seen some great turn arounds by Selfs teams that struggle early. Remember getting whipped in Maui in the 05-06 season and people were saying NIT or how bad the 11-12 team looked early, heck even last year Washington and ASU spanked us early.
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@BShark HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!! are you kidding?? Im serious, are you joking? We have a bunch of new players this year, there are bound to be growing pains. We all know that it takes most players at KU, who are new to Self’s system, a while to pick everything up, not to mention gel as a team and develop chemistry on court. Quit gloom and dooming and just enjoy the ride!!
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Kentucky has problems, Villanova has problems, West Virginia has problems…compared to them KU is a solid team that is still trying to figure out the optimal combination.
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I think the Ragin’ Cajuns are better than a few Big 12 teams.
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There’s no doubt we get everyone’s best shot. I’m always surprised that other teams can come into Allen Fieldhouse and shoot lights out. Maybe playing in Allen inspires other teams rather than intimidates them. Or, maybe it’s our poor defense. You be the judge.
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@jayballer73 I’m seeing some glimpses of 2013. this isn’t a great defensive team so far, and it is certainly not a great offensive team. They can’t score on the break, and they aren’t defending the perimeter. Beyond Vick and Doke, we aren’t creating anything on the offensive end. We have two freshmen thinking instead of just playing. We have an All American candidate who seems to have alot of talent, but seems to be in his head on the court, and not playing free. if we play as badly on the perimeter against Marquette as we did against LA, we’ll get pummeled. There are some serious growing pains coming, because I don’t see a real closer on this team. I see talented guys trying to do what their coach wants, but I don’t see ownership. Devon and Grimes are real talented, but until they grasp mastery on the court, and settle for no less, we’re going to be walking a real tight rope. And it’s not like Charlie is rallying the troops- he’s finding his way through, too. We could easily be 3-2 by this time next week unless our level of play vastly improves. This might be a team that doesn’t start playing well until the very end of the season.
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Defense needs to get better. Rotations have been slow. Part of that is starting two freshman. It’ll slowly get cleaned up and by EOY they’ll be much better.
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What would Jaybate say?
I think he would say that Self has them playing things they aren’t comfortable with… Bad Ball or something like that. He’s running a system that the new guys aren’t familiar with and they are all getting used to… so it looks ugly. Except for the two guys who know the system well-- Dok and Vick. Self uses these games to practice sets and teach, not for points in a beauty contest.
He plays it a bit differently based on the competition. But he usually finds the right combination to win.
Self uses the early season games as a crucible to mold the skills and mindset necessary later in the year.
. . Actually, @jaybate-1-0 would write a lot more than that… with some conspiracy theory and metaphysical thoughts thrown in for good measure… But it’s a start.
Where art thou Jaybate?
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I’m hoping @jaybate-1-0 is in the company of a wonderful woman, traveling the globe and reconnecting with his spiritual power source.
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There are some encouraging things, though. Through 3 games, KU is shooting 47.0% from 3 (8th in D1), scoring 88.3 points per game (22nd in D1), shooting 48.7% from the field (55th in D1), rebounding 41.7 times per game (49th in D1), and assisting 20.0 times per game (12th in D1). These offensive numbers are with Dedric shooting 31.4% from the field (not likely to continue) and with no SDS to collect rebounds.
There are a couple things KU needs to work on. They allow opponents to shoot 38.8% from 3 (291st in D1). They shoot Free Throws at 62.3% (282nd in D1). They need to get better at both of those things quickly.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Very true, we all know that this team has to learn to play together, especially on defense where communication is definitely lacking to this point.
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Bump. Finally took an L tonight.
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Will KU finish in the top half of the Big 12?
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KU will easily finish in the top half of the B12, the conference looks like garbage outside of 3 teams. I’d bet on Tech ending the streak this season if I was a betting man but no way we finish worse than 3rd.
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That is not even close to correct. The Big 12 is currently ranked 2nd by all ranking publications I have seen and barely behind the Big 10 and ahead of the ACC.
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Unless Grimes stops being butt, this team will be lucky to make it to the 2nd weekend.
Even if he progresses, this team still doesn’t have a guard to close out tight games. Bad loss, considering we had them on the ropes. This team in its current form is not a FF team. De Sousa might help. But really what this team lacks is a go to guard.
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@Kcmatt7 What’s Graham up to?
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@JayHawkFanToo I agree. I have seen some really good games be played by at least 4-5 other B12 teams. I can’t believe how many people think the conference is going to be a push over. Vandy beat ASU, which beat us. K-State beat Vandy. OU, ISU, TCU, TT, will all be tough also. The other four can get hot and beat anyone on a given night. It will be a gauntlet.
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How many times did chuck and Marcus go to the hole when they should’ve pulled it out? Vick, grimes, chuck took some really crappy shots. Vick should know, chuck should know.
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@JayHawkFanToo because rankings are right? Lol I’ve been impressed with Tech so far and that’s it.
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The conference rankings are primarily based on inter-conference play since conference play has not started and the Big 12 is outperforming the others. These are objective rankings based on numbers and not on subjective opinions.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’ve never been a rankings matter guy and the B12 has probably been the best league maybe 2 years since its inception. If ranking had a ton accuracy their wouldn’t be very many upsets. We could argue about it all day I recon, I just dont see the B12 going any place in March.
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@BShark I watched most of the Kstate Vandy game prior to ours (i am sick and stuck on the couch). Viewing the game made me even sicker. Ksu is horrible. No way they beat us for the conf. No Dean wade but just tons of bricks, bad shots, and lack of bball skill in general. Our B team would beat them.
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@Fightsongwriter You can bet they will bring their A game when they play us. As will everyone else. There will be no walk overs.
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@BShark Then please define a top 25 team, please…I guarandamntee you the top 5-10 are NOT top 25 either by your definition.
Geez, KU has one bad game against a pretty good opponent and the damn sky is falling. Stay tuned folks because it only gets better. I guarandamntee you another thing @BShark, ISU or any other B12 team did not have the pre or non-con schedule of KU. We didn’t have Doke inside at all and I believe he would’ve made that 4-6 pt difference.
I’d be more concerned about TT than ISU or KSU.
Merry Christmas Jayhawk Nation
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@truehawk93 In all fairness he’s been consistent - started this thread Nov. 16. Not that I agree, just sayin’ it’s not a knee jerk reaction.
