Poor Silvio
-
“Certainly the status hasn’t changed even though wheels are in motion,” Self said on Wednesday. “The status hasn’t changed, and it’s still preliminary. But I certainly hope we can have him back soon.”
WHEELS ARE IN MOTION.
Yeah. He can continue to be a practice buddy here or go make some money somewhere else.
It’s entirely possible he needs College but if he’s not going to graduate then KU is nothing more then some training for him at this point. The NCAA isn’t going to let him play this year
-
I mean nothing is stopping him from going to Europe and playing and making some money right now. So yes it sucks for the kid not to be able to play, but the “poor Silvio” is a little off base IMO.
-
Well if you look at it from this way- Self and KT are still coaching, KU is still playing games, but Silvio gets to sit its a double standard.
-
@BeddieKU23 I totally understand that point of view, but Self is the HC and is the program. That is just the way it is.
My point is that it is not like KU just threw him out on the streets. He is still on scholarship, getting world class training, and living a better life then most.
-
@BeddieKU23 Assuming that there is no evidence that Self or KT conspired in paying Silvio’s guardian, why would Self or KT be suspended? Or are you talking about the current information warranting suspension more broadly (outside of Silvio)?
With Silvio, there is no real denial now from his camp.
We have evidence that Silvio’s guardian was paid by UA and then some cash apparently from Adidas. That compromises eligibility of course, which could compromise our season if he plays (if it’s not already compromised).
On the other hand, because as Self said, integrity is very important (a “fundamental role” as the coach) – if there is that evidence regarding Silvio, or with any other player, I agree completely on coaches being suspended.
And I completely agree that I feel sorry for the kid. He has responsibility, of course, but it’s a tangled web.
-
Yeah I don’t think Silvio was involved in asking for money at all. He probably didn’t see a dime of it either, other than paying for the online classes technically.
-
@BeddieKU23 Silvio is in this “pickle” because he had a guardian who apparently sold Silvio’s services to not just one but two universities. At best, Silvio took no interest in the instructions he was given to abruptly change his choice. At worst, he was complicit and jeopardized his career and KU’s entire program. I see no similar information regarding the coaches except KT’s discussion of what Zion’s family supposedly wanted but certainly never got from KU.
-
Woodrow said:
@BeddieKU23 I totally understand that point of view, but Self is the HC and is the program. That is just the way it is.
My point is that it is not like KU just threw him out on the streets. He is still on scholarship, getting world class training, and living a better life then most.
Absolutely I agree with you.
Silvio is the easy escape-goat right now with how the rules are currently set up. The player gets punished (can’t play) but everyone and everything else is business as usual. There was no “review” of Self or KT that we know of publicly. I’d asume its not as shiny rose gold as it seems behind the scenes but as far as we know Silvio is the fall boy, which is my only issue in all this.
-
mayjay said:
@BeddieKU23 Silvio is in this “pickle” because he had a guardian who apparently sold Silvio’s services to not just one but two universities. At best, Silvio took no interest in the instructions he was given to abruptly change his choice. At worst, he was complicit and jeopardized his career and KU’s entire program. I see no similar information regarding the coaches except KT’s discussion of what Zion’s family supposedly wanted but certainly never got from KU.
Of course the rules are set up to punish/hold out Silvio for his guardian’s actions, if true. Whether he (Silvio) was involved we don’t know for sure. If he wasn’t its awful crap luck. If he was involved then its a good thing he’s not playing
-
Where were the online classes from? KU?
-
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Assuming that there is no evidence that Self or KT conspired in paying Silvio’s guardian, why would Self or KT be suspended? Or are you talking about the current information warranting suspension more broadly (outside of Silvio)?
With Silvio, there is no real denial now from his camp.
We have evidence that Silvio’s guardian was paid by UA and then some cash apparently from Adidas. That compromises eligibility of course, which could compromise our season if he plays (if it’s not already compromised).
On the other hand, because as Self said, integrity is very important (a “fundamental role” as the coach) – if there is that evidence regarding Silvio, or with any other player, I agree completely on coaches being suspended.
And I completely agree that I feel sorry for the kid. He has responsibility, of course, but it’s a tangled web.
It’s definitely a tangled web and I struggle to find a balance between all this. I was just looking at it through Silvio’s eyes. He sits, KU’s playing games, Self and KT are coaching. It would be hard to imagine he’s not looking at this and being like why am I the only one being punished?
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Where were the online classes from? KU?
I believe it was for HS credits to get him eligible to enroll early. I could be wrong though.
-
Why can’t Silvio take legal action against the guardian?
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Why can’t Silvio take legal action against the guardian?
Wouldn’t matter in the eyes of the NCAA.
-
@BShark fishy. Our h.s. Doesn’t have online classes so seems weird to me.
-
What is interesting is that Silvio chose to come to KU not because KU paid (it did not) but in spite the the fact the Under Armour paid , allegedly $60K, to go to another school. Sounds like he would have come to KU regardless of the $2,500 on-line class payment by Adidas.
-
I read the $60,000 was paid directly to a strength and conditioning coach by a Maryland booster who wanted his money back (Maryland issue!). Thus no $$$ through the guardian’s account and the NCAA will have to be satisfied Somehow. The $2,500 is relatively minor in my mind, much like some prior small $$ payments at KU.
It will take a while to sort this mess out.
Moving to international ball (a suggestion made by other posters) didn’t work out for Preston. I’m not aware of any high school player that navigated those waters very successfully…
-
@JayHawkFanToo By my count, it’s up to $82,500 – $60,000 from a booster, $20,000 from UA, and $2,500 from Adidas.
@Crimsonorblue22 I think he could take legal action if he was 1) a minor when this occurred, or 2) if it was done completely without his knowledge. He’d sue the guardian on a breach of fiduciary duty claim for one. But that won’t happen.
-
HighEliteMajor said:
@JayHawkFanToo By my count, it’s up to $82,500 – $60,000 from a booster, $20,000 from UA, and $2,500 from Adidas.
@Crimsonorblue22 I think he could take legal action if he was 1) a minor when this occurred, or 2) if it was done completely without his knowledge. He’d sue the guardian on a breach of fiduciary duty claim for one. But that won’t happen.
This is murky, the UA/booster thing might be related. He said he needed to pay back UA but maybe it was the booster or maybe he was just playing Adidas. Can’t really trust Fenny at all so we don’t really know.
-
@BShark can we trust any of them?
-
-
The alleges $20K was supposed to be a payment by Adidas to reimburse the booster/UA but there is no evidence it ever took place. I am not even sure the FBI ever showed proof of the $60K transaction either. Frankly, the FBI case was built with smoke and mirrors and other than a few recordings and the word of Gassnola wanting a deal I am not sure the money was ever tracked down.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Ok … I’m sure there’s a paypal or venmo transaction in there somewhere, too. Still puzzled how a guardian escapes prosecution. If they’re prosecuting, they need to target all participants. He’s as much a conspirator of this non-crime (editorializing) as any of them.
-
A reasonable person would think so but we are talking about the government…and whatever political agenda it is following.
-
Poor Silvio. Never want to see a kid stuck in NCAA limbo. We all know that could last awhile. Although you’d have to think he knew “somebody” had to pay for the $2,500 online course he apparently needed to attend KU. Small potatoes I know, but did he think it was coming out of Fenny’s pocket? His parents? I hope the money aspect is limited to this and he somehow pays it back (no loans from Fenny!) and returns second semester.
-
I know nobody cares but these kids “stuck in limbo”, like Silvio, still get a free college education. Imagine any other scholarship recipient breaking a big part of the scholarship agreement and still receiving it.
-
@BigBad For Silvio, we still don’t know if he is complicit. But, BYU has let the guy who personally accepted thousands in benefits back onto their team. I wonder if the NCAA’s order that they vacate 47 wins will affect his position with the coaches or teammates.
-
@mayjay Most interesting in the BYU deal is the somewhat analogous situation. There was was no info to suggest the coaches or the school knew. Paid by a third party supporter of the program.
-
@HighEliteMajor Since the info isn’t developed yet, all we can do, of course, is speculate. The biggest difference I see so far is that the money and benefits went directly to the BYU kid, followed by the fact that the payments were from a long-lasting booster of BYU. While an Adidas rep could be a booster, that company was also “boosting” dozens of other schools so there are different principal/agent considerations involved–predominantly, KU had no apparent authority over anything the Adidas guys were doing. Further, most university boosters have an ongoing relationship with athletics, attending games, getting preferred seating, etc, so the schools are usually presumed to be in cahoots when their players get extras. It might be possible for KU to demonstrate a sufficient lack of connection with the Adidas guy, including his desire to pay funds to induce separate pro agency relationships independent of KU’s concerns.
Enough differences that I would feel comfortable with arguing KU’s case. (Then again, I was comfortable arguing all types of crappy legal positions way back when–you lose 95% of the time appealing court-martial convictions, so you learn to live with it!)
-
@mayjay I think the lack of significant connection with Adidas is perfect logic. I think you’re right on there. They weren’t our agent since Self has said we have no knowledge. They were acting in their self interest, as a private company, and not on behalf of the university. While I think that’s obviously enough to make the kid ineligible or subject to suspension (the receipt of money, guardian or otherwise), that should have zero to do with Kansas (of course, unless … you know).
Here’s a link on the BYU deal if anyone is interested.
-
I would think there is a heck of a lot more to the BYU situation than we known. It is one of the more severe penalties ever for something that has routinely warranted only a few games suspension for the student. It really makes no sense based on the information publically available to date.
-
Could use this guy about now with Doke out. Thanks NCAA
-
Sorry — but (sic) ‘escape-goat’?
-
I’m confident this could be solved by the Guardian getting his bank to send his records to the NCAA.
But he won’t… This is one of the few times that I wouldn’t blame the NCAA. There is someone admitting to paying De Sousa under oath. And the problem could very easily be solved.
Now if the NCAA has all the info and is slow playing it, I will totally agree it’s their faults. But if information is being withheld, it isn’t necessarily their fault.
-
-
I agree that his guardian could clear some things up for Silvio. The more time that passes makes you think he hasn’t. And the only one suffering from this is the kid he’s supposed to be helping.
-
@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I’m the investigator, bank records don’t mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing – meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you’re assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn’t mean anything to me.
@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I’d ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he’s just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I’d want to know that too.
Maybe they have … that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don’t know. I’d chip in a grand to help pay it back – but then I’d get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.
-
HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I’m the investigator, bank records don’t mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing – meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you’re assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn’t mean anything to me.
@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I’d ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he’s just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I’d want to know that too.
Maybe they have … that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don’t know. I’d chip in a grand to help pay it back – but then I’d get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.
I tend to agree he’s a snake. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I just have a hard time believing he couldn’t have settled this situation for Silvio already, or at least given information that would have helped the situation one way or the other. Which leads my mind down the rabbit hole in regards to the other player this Guardian is involved with, Bruno Fernando, a Soph at Maryland which ties that whole payment fiasco together in some way. The alleged 60k and 20k payback all tie this together. What if providing info for Silvio ends up costing Bruno his eligibility as well because of this guardian. So I wonder how much a role that plays here. Why give up both eggs in the pot if you can keep one payday alive. I honestly have no idea if I’m on the right path or not but that’s what crosses my mind in regards to this whole thing.
I think KU is in the appeal stage already and usually we don’t hear about anything regarding that until resolution is near or something pops up in the media that puts it out in the open. Maybe the NCAA is still looking for info/waiting for info/searching for info etc but enough time has passed that I think we are beyond that. Silvio has already sat 7 games and 2 exhibitions so at this point no matter the actual dollar amount he’s responsible or going to be held accountable for he’s getting close to losing half a season. At some point and maybe that’s already passed, Silvio will have de-facto missed more time then he should have without an official ruling. It would be nice to have closure here, for once.
-
The $60,000, IIRC, was paid by a Maryland basketball supporter to a strength coach. Directly, probably. That supporter has ZERO incentive to admit to it as that would throw MD under the bus. SDS/guardian won’t admit to it because it verifies the action occurred. Ergo, no resolution.
I don’t believe $2,500 is that big an issue. It’s the $60K that’s stalling everything, I believe.
I have little faith SDS will see the court again.
-
Where did you get your information? As I recall, Gassnola testified that a Maryland booster paid the $60K directly to Falmagne to have Sivio go to Maryland and once Silvio picked KU he, the booster, wanted his money back.
-
@JayHawkFanToo i wonder if he got it back?
-
HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I’m the investigator, bank records don’t mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing – meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you’re assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn’t mean anything to me.
@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I’d ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he’s just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I’d want to know that too.
Maybe they have … that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don’t know. I’d chip in a grand to help pay it back – but then I’d get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.
If it never hit the bank, that checks something off the list. If he does have large cash transactions, that is a red flag. Anyone receiving a large cash transaction would have some sort of proof of that transaction. I see what you’re saying. But transparency on Fenny’s part would clear this right up. One way or the other…
-
I hate guardians and handlers and parents who try to cash in on the 16, 17 and 18 year old kids being recruited.
I never expected, asked for, or received a nickel from Lowe’s or the Marines when I helped my stepsons decide where they were going. Geez!
-
JayHawkFanToo said:
Where did you get your information? As I recall, Gassnola testified that a Maryland booster paid the $60K directly to Falmagne to have Sivio go to Maryland and once Silvio picked KU he, the booster, wanted his money back.
I can’t locate the source again. I’ll continue to look. Maybe I misread it…
-
@BeddieKU23 It’s HILARIOUS that Bruno gets to play and Silvio doesn’t.
-
@Kcmatt7 To an investigator, the absence of a bank deposit on an illegal transaction means nothing. Or at best, a very very small box to check. It’s expected that they won’t deposit it. Folks in such situations retain such cash. Most often converting it or sometimes laundering it in larger schemes. Much like the self employed deck builder who gets cash payments. Or the drug dealer.
Where you’re going on proof of a large cash transaction is the most likely way bank records are most helpful —— comparing to a standard of living, looking at purchases. The absence of payment in the bank records. You can then see that cash was converted to an asset or used to pay a debt — a down payment on a car, a boat, private school tuition, a money order to pay a credit card bill, and even groceries. If a standard of living is not reflected in the records, that’s helpful evidence. That sort of investigation has more layers, and one that would be quite difficult for the NCAA.
-
I agree that a fully empowered investigator can get a lot of information and extrapolate as you indicated. The problem for the NCAA is that it has no authority to compel anyone outside of program personnel to produce any records, cooperate or even talk to them so even the basic information an investigator would require might not be available or reliable.
The end result is that the entire investigation goes into limbo. Despite assurances to the contrary, looks like Falmagne has not been forthcoming, the NCAA will no render a ruling and the only option KU has is to either not play Silvio or dismiss him all together which would have horrible optics. Falmagne apparently got the money, Silvio gets to practice against high level competition and gets valuable training by some of the best trainers in the business, all expenses paid, and likely will go pro at the end of the season…and KU gets the shaft.
-
@JayHawkFanToo This feels a bit like the Cliff limbo … no end is sight. I wonder what records the NCAA will have access to from the FBI? There was discussion of that.
-
The question is…would the FBI be able to share information that is not public with the NCAA which is not a government or law enforcement agency? I can see all kinds of privacy issues being raised but I don’t know what the applicable law is in this area. The FBI and other government agencies have refused to disclose information about wrong doing by government officials while doing government work and being paid by taxpayers, so I would think it would be hesitant to disclose information to a non-government agency about private citizens doing things that violate NCAA regulations but don’t necessarily break the law.
The saga continues…frankly, I would be shocked if Silvio is cleared to play college basketball before he decide to either go to the G League or overseas; apparently at one time he had a contract to play in Spain so that might still be a potential destination. At this time, I will guess that KU knows this will the case and has no hopes that Silvio will play but as long as there is a scholarship available it send a message to potential recruits that KU stands by them and gives KU players a capable big for practice.
-
Honest question…is there another player connected to this at all that is being held out this season? If not…what is different about KU’s/SDS’s position that would force KU to keep him out while others don’t have to?
