Duke 1, Kansas 2, Gonzaga 3 in Week 2 AP Poll
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West Virginia falls all the way out, bad loss for sure but its so early.
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KU beats a top 10 team and drops. Duke would NEVER drop for winning against a Top 10 team. So much bias its not even funny. But who cares, it was one game for both in a season that’s barely started. Tonight’s opponent is the only one that matters
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The polls are so reactionary right now. It will all sort itself out. Duke has a few tough games coming up in the Maui invitational (probably Auburn in the 2nd round and Gonzaga in the championship game), so we’ll see.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
The polls are so reactionary right now. It will all sort itself out. Duke has a few tough games coming up in the Maui invitational (probably Auburn in the 2nd round and Gonzaga in the championship game), so we’ll see.
Gonzaga at full strength would have been a huge game in Maui. Without Tillie they probably don’t have enough.
Auburn has athletes to compete but probably isn’t good enough to match Duke’s 3.
But it’s Maui and anything can happen in a neutral environment.
Agree about the polls. As soon as the Duke game ended this was expected, its just funny really how biased the whole thing is
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You’re absolutely right that Gonzaga is going to miss Killian Tillie in that game. I like Gonzaga’s chances, even with Tillie out. They’re an experienced team that will spread the floor, execute on offense, and not turn the ball over. In 2 games (against no one) they’re averaging 112 points and 9.5 turnovers per game, which is great.
I don’t think Auburn will be disciplined enough to beat Duke, but they could give them a test.
Iowa St. and Arizona are both in the field too. Arizona is 2-0 with a decent roster. I don’t really understand why they only received 2 votes. Iowa St would be more exciting to watch if they weren’t missing half of their roster.
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I agree Gonzaga should give them a heck of a game. They won’t back down from the challenge. With Tillie I’d pick them to win but its difficult to see them winning without him. He’s their best player.
Iowa St is likely without Wigginton for a while who’s in a boot. Tough to win without your best player.
This isn’t your regular Arizona team. It’s going to be a struggle for them without the top tier talent they are used to. Maybe they get more out of a team that lacks NBA talent as I think a lot of their teams have struggled from having “me first” types. This squad will be forced to play as a team to win otherwise they will have a hard time winning in the weak Pac-12
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Honestly, preseason polls are stupid. I think they should wait until now to do the first poll of the season.
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It’s fine with me. They were still going to talk about Dook regardless.
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I personally think polls are pretty pointless until about December. Let everyone play 4-6 games and then rank the teams.
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Here’s a little slice of ESPN’s NBA section, speaking of Dukey bias…
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Duke doesn’t play a true road game again until Jan 8. They’ll stay #1 for a while…
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
The polls are so reactionary right now. It will all sort itself out. Duke has a few tough games coming up in the Maui invitational (probably Auburn in the 2nd round and Gonzaga in the championship game), so we’ll see.
I think there is a very good chance they get beat by Gonzaga - -their good but still human lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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The first few polls have lots of movement because everyone is seeing teams for the first time. Everyone saw Duke beat Kentucky. Few probably watched their second game against Army yesterday. Some pollsters rank based on expectation. Some rank based on performance to date (of which there isn’t much right now). Give it until December to have a chance to settle down. I don’t think any team has played even three games yet. Things are fluid right now.
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Zion should be sitting pending the investigation into his pay for play demand. Yet KU wasn’t even the topic and Silvio sits pending an investigation into a $2500 payment? WTH?
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We own Duke
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I personally hope duke gets all the unbeatable hype and we just fly around doing what we do.
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Does Stanford have chance to get Win in the Dean dome? Haase has a chance to beat his former coach and where he spent several season as an assistant. Go cardinal lol
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Nope. Lol.
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Luke Maye and Dedric Lawson are almost the same player. But Luke Maye looks like a werewolf.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
You’re absolutely right that Gonzaga is going to miss Killian Tillie in that game. I like Gonzaga’s chances, even with Tillie out. They’re an experienced team that will spread the floor, execute on offense, and not turn the ball over. In 2 games (against no one) they’re averaging 112 points and 9.5 turnovers per game, which is great.
I need this for my self esteem after picking Kentucky to beat Duke.
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Nice call to those who liked the Zags last night, so nice to see the dooksters get taken down. And happy Turkey Day to all the board rats.
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KU gets jumped by Gonzaga in the polls. Pretty sad, another slap in the face. Its all about Duke even when they lose
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I’m ok getting overlooked. So long as we secure a #1 seed in KC. That’s the single most important thing for this season.
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The poll at this point and time means nothing , nada , zilch. I’m fine with where we are - -who cares? - -All I - - we should care about? ? worry about ? - -is having that # 1 rank is at the end of the year. We all know , realize is that ranking is really for the fans to be able thump on our chest - -say oh look were # 1 were the number # 1 ranked team in the Nation. So let’s ask this , So were # 1 during the Season & then we lose in the NCAA tourney - - - -So how is that #1 ranking during the regular season working for ya now?
US just having the name of Kansa written across those jerseys gives us a big enough target on our chest - -let someone else have that heat. - - I will bet you this - -if you were to ask the Coach’s - - players which they would rather have , either the # 1 ranking during the season and lose in the tourney - -OR not being # 1 during the season and then getting that NCAA hardware at the END OF THE YEAR - - I would place any amount what their answer would be. - -Rankings are worthless at THIS point - -other then for the fans. I’m fine with where we are at right at this point. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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FWIW, ESPN Power Ratings have KU as #1.
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I hope it motivates us.
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@KUSTEVE It motivates the SHI* out of me. I know it’s early, I know the polls mean zero right now, but I’m tired of KU being disrespected. We could be 38-0 and Duke, Kentucky and Carolina could all have 12 losses and they still get all the press, all the hype.
In my opinion, anybody that is a KU fan should be ticked.
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In a testament to how good we are perceived to be, Tennessee is still #6.
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Duke got a first-place vote this week somehow.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@KUSTEVE It motivates the SHI* out of me. I know it’s early, I know the polls mean zero right now, but I’m tired of KU being disrespected. We could be 38-0 and Duke, Kentucky and Carolina could all have 12 losses and they still get all the press, all the hype.
In my opinion, anybody that is a KU fan should be ticked.
KU lacks a nationally recognized rivalry to help promote the games. UNC and Duke have each other. UK has Louisville. KU has… nobody. It’s tough to be a nationally respected program when most of the games you play don’t matter outside the state. In that respect, KU is something like Gonzaga, but in a major conference.
We need an annual rivalry game that gets national TV exposure (i.e., not K-State). There’s no game that KU has on its schedule every year that is worth promoting for several days leading up to it like you can Duke-UNC or UK-Louisville. The only time you can really build up a KU game leading up to it is when KU is facing Duke, UNC, or UK.
So what’s the solution? Well, there are a few options.
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Get the Border War going again. It matters outside Kansas, which is a big issue in getting national attention.
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Start an annual series with (pick one) UCLA, Indiana, Ohio State, Arizona, Michigan, Louisville. It has to be a prominent program from a major conference, and has to be something that will always draw a national audience.
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Create an annual Naismith Classic, something like what UCLA did with the Wooden Classic before merging the event into a tournament. Find a weekend in the early season to host two games at AFH and play ball.
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@justanotherfan I’m not trying to be that guy, but to say KU is not a nationally respected program is one of the strangest statements i’ve ever seen on this site.
You do realize we’ve won more games than any team in the universe except one. We’ve won 3 or 5 National Championships, depending on who you talk to.
We’ve won a hundred Big 12 Championships in a row (give or take).
Even broadcasters recognize that Kansas is the mecca of college basketball - if you don’t believe me, ask any of them that have ever done a game at AFH. It’s the pinnacle of college basketball arenas.
Not having a Missouri to beat 2 or 3 times a year is not hurting us a bit.
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New #1 Ohio State! Initial NET rankings clearly don’t have a large enough sample size and are flawed at best right now. Looks pretty sketchy.
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@justanotherfan The lack of a rival was why I wanted KU to somehow end up in the SEC. UK vs KU yearly and with conference championships on the line would be awesome.
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Hate to break it to you but outside Kansas and some fans in Missouri nobody really cares about the border wall. MU agreed to a game last season because it though it had a team that could give KU a game; it will not happen again in a while.
KU has been part of the Champions Classic for several years now which provide at least a quality opponent every year. KU also plays this season UK, Villanova , Marquette and Tennessee, 4 high quality opponents in addition to several top 20 ranked Conference teams. KU schedule is and has been consistently plenty strong with several marquee names and does need any more tweaking.
The MSM will build up East Coast teams regardless of who KU plays or does not play.
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@JayHawkFanToo I was torn between the Puke-Zags game. Like most on here I love it when the BDevils go down. The problem is now Gonzaga may go undefeated what with the conference they play in. They play Washington, Tennessee, and North Carolina. Other than that, they will probably win out. Hope Roy’s boys can take them down.
Actually I only care that our Hawks can have a terrific season and be one of the final four again. Then whatever the other teams do will not matter.
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KU is nationally respected and recognized with a significant degree of difficulty. That comes from a lower rate of exposure than most other major programs.
It’s not impossible, obviously, but KU is the most consistently dominant program in the country and yet probably only the fourth or fifth most recognized program. That says a lot.
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@justanotherfan KU’s national notoriety would go up if we produced more actual NBA stars like Pierce. We have produced a plethora of journeymen (Collison and Hinrich notably; Mason and Graham’s track, too), but even Embiid (if he has longevity), and Wiggins and Jackson (if they happen to break out) were only at KU for 1 year and so the association to casual fans is weak. Especially since KU flamed out before expected in their years.
Still, here in football country, I get a lot of comments about how great KU is–in bb, followed by comments about fb, of course!
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mayjay said:
@justanotherfan KU’s national notoriety would go up if we produced more actual NBA stars like Pierce.
KU has lacked in producing next level stars for a program of this level. In the last 25 years, KU has produced two true stars in the NBA (Pierce and Embiid), a handful of good players, and a host of productive players and career backups.
It would be nice if Grimes can find himself here because I believe he can really be a star at the next level with his size and talent. But I want him to also be a star at KU so he isn’t a guy that was restrained by college hoops, then broke out in the NBA because that actually hurts KU more than helping.
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@mayjay That speaks volumes about what a great coach Bill is, and Roy as well.
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I wondered who in the heck voted Duke number 1 after it lost to Gonzaga. Guess who? Jesse Newell. Collegepolltracker.com shows who’s voting in the AP poll. Dick Vitale voted KU number 1.
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I know a few weeks ago I told everyone to chill about the Duke stuff, but when I look at ESPN, I sure get irritated because Duke is plastered all over their college basketball page. DSPN is what it’s now called.
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Here is Newell’s explanation for his vote. The only problem appears to be that he is missing the meaning of the weekly polls which is to be a snapshot in time of the teams at the time of the poll but he seems to be looking at the before and after rather than the now…
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@JayHawkFanToo He has set up his own metric that has nothing to do with the polls. It’s the weekly rankings- it’s not the futures rankings. He is treating our win over Tenn as a loss.
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I understand this but he is not publishing his own ranking, he is voting on a poll that is a snapshot in time which ranks teams based on their current status and production and he is applying criteria that is not supposed part of the poll.
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@JayHawkFanToo I was agreeing with you.
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I disagree with Newell’s explanation and approach to poll rankings. Newell says he looks at what would happen if Duke and Gonzaga play 100 games and he speculates that Duke would win the most. But, that is not how college basketball games are decided; they are decided by one game. So, the polls should be based on what has happened during games played, not speculation about teams playing each other 100 times and who he speculates would win the most. After KU won the National Championship in 1988, I heard from the KU haters that if KU played any of the teams again KU would lose, so KU wasn’t the best team in the tournament. But, we decide the championship on which team won the game, not Newell’s illogical approach of who he speculates would win the most of 100 fictitious games. What say you JBate? Surely, you disagree with Jesse Newell and agree with me, right.
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@stoptheflop We can call it what it is…jesse clickbait.
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Exactly. Newell should follow the rules for the weekly polls that represent the here and now and not the past, future or potential of any team. If he wants to use his own criteria he should have his own rating like Pomeroy, Sagarin, Massey or any number of other analysts do.
As far as 1988, KU won that tournament fair and square and in accordance with the rules, regulations and structure in effect at the time, so any discussion is moot.
Having said that, I am an aAdvocate of having a lot less teams and having a best of xxx game elimination starting at least with the Elite 8. I understand that in this scenario KU probably would not have won in 1988 but it is also likely that it could have won 2-3 titles when one bad game eliminated teams with true championship potential.
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I disagree entirely! The polls are a collective judgment of which teams are better and are expected to do well. Game results are just one factor–until they become determinative in the tournament.
Otherwise the polls are not a judgment call at all. The voters would just sort all teams by record. That makes no sense since you only need a preseason poll and a compendium of game results to proceed from there. I agree with Newell–an early 2 point upset in college BB does not require upending poll rankings.
