Quentin "Big Game" Grimes
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@bskeet Agree. He was looking good early from the line, but pressure is a game changer and does funny things.
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bskeet said:
If Grimes and D Lawson turn out to be our top two scorers, who will be #3 for the season?
I like Dotson’s game. He’s a bit under the radar now, but I expect even more points from him. There will be games where the interior game isn’t working well, putting the game into the hands of positions 1-3.
So many options…
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This KU team shouldn’t be closing games with Doke on the floor anyway. Down the stretch, you don’t need him for his scoring and with Dedric as good a rebounder as he is, you don’t need him for that.
KU should be closing games with D. Lawson, Vick, Grimes, Dotson and probably K. Lawson or a defensive minded interior guy. I wouldn’t be opposed to having Lightfoot on the floor to close games, honestly.
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ESPN had this to say about KU’s prospects from Tuesday’s game.
Quentin Grimes-
Kansas’ 6-foot-5 combo guard made an excellent impression on NBA scouts, answering questions about his shooting stroke by cashing six of his first eight 3s, some coming from well beyond the NBA arc. Prior to Tuesday, Grimes was shooting a career 85-of-288 (29.5 percent) from 3, according to our database. But with more than a hundred NBA executives on hand, Grimes shot the ball with confidence, displayed tremendous mechanics and footwork, and played his usual smart, mature, mistake-free basketball.
He plays within himself, almost always makes the right read and can moonlight at point guard. (He dropped four assists and just one turnover). On the defensive end, Grimes was rock solid, forcing Josh Langford into long, contested 2s and staying active off the ball. He still has questions to answer about his finishing (1-of-4 inside the arc) and overall upside, but Grimes checks a lot of different boxes.
Dedric Lawson-
Lawson showed why he is likely to become one of the more controversial prospects in this class. He shot just 5-18 from the field, doing his best work operating from the center position with his ability to post up and draw fouls in bunches. He also went 10-12 from the free throw line, grabbed 14 rebounds and dished out 6 assists, showing the terrific basketball IQ and versatility that make him such a unique prospect at 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot-2½ wingspan.
It’s clear that Lawson used his redshirt season to his advantage physically by tightening up his frame. That was imperative considering he lacks much in the way of quickness and explosiveness. He is a short strider who doesn’t get up and down the floor very well, struggles to get off the ground for finishes and has quite a bit of trouble stepping outside of the paint defensively – all major issues for an NBA big man. Lawson’s overall feel helps compensate for that to an extent. He can handle the ball effectively, and he was utilized as a playmaker in intriguing 4/5 pick-and-rolls that allowed his court vision to shine. He gravitates to the glass naturally and uses his length to corral rebounds on both ends of the floor. He was impressive getting in the passing lanes and protecting the rim, staying vertical and walling off opponents despite not being much of a leaper.
The biggest key for Lawson will be his evolution as a shooter. He made just 30 percent of his 3s in his first two college seasons and missed both of his attempts from outside Tuesday, but he was on fire during Kansas’ two exhibition games. He has promising shooting mechanics and has always been a solid free throw shooter, so there is plenty to be optimistic about long term.
Lawson has long been an analytics darling who is beloved by draft models due to his excellent assist, rebound, steal and block rates, but he was repeatedly given the cold shoulder by NBA teams while at Memphis. Now going into his fourth season of college basketball while still only 21 years old, he appears to be in a much better position to utilize his diverse skill set. He’s likely in store for a huge year from a productivity standpoint, though there are still questions about exactly what type of NBA prospect he is.
Devon Dotson-
Dotson played a major role in Kansas’ win over Michigan State, handling a veteran Spartan backcourt with poise and showing significant potential on both ends of the floor. Dotson is one of the more explosive open-court players you’ll find, able to accelerate impressively while turning defensive rebounds into transition opportunities. Even though he’s still learning to fully harness his tremendous speed, the fast-paced nature of the NBA game will likely suit him quite well.
On top of that, he seems to be making strides with his jumper, knocking down three of his five attempts from beyond the arc. Showing real confidence with this part of his game bodes well for his ability to develop into the type of complete offensive weapon NBA covets from lead guards. On top of that, he defended his position effectively, fighting over the top of screens with his strong frame, heating up the ball far away from the basket and getting in the passing lanes repeatedly.
Dotson’s decision-making skills are clearly a work in progress, as evidenced by his three assists and four turnovers. It’s also not a given that his jump shot will be as consistent over the course of the season considering his unconventional mechanics and spotty track record. Nevertheless, his tremendous speed, willingness to defend and strong frame give him definite NBA potential that he will likely be able to tap into after two or three seasons at Kansas.
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bskeet said:
If Grimes and D Lawson turn out to be our top two scorers, who will be #3 for the season?
Doke , ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Dotson will be right there as well. He’s the guy that shocked me with his shooting acumen. His 3 point shot was pure magic. With Grimes, i expected him to be tear it up, but all I heard about Devon was that he couldn’t shoot. Boy, they were sure wrong.
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@KUSTEVE It was one game, let’s see how it goes over the course of a season. That said, his shot was never exactly broken, so I expect improvement with these coaches.
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Dotson could end up as the #3 scorer on this team because of his speed in transition. That could get him an extra bucket or two here and there, which could edge him in front of Doke even if Doke gets more chances in the set offense. Dotson also benefits from likely knocking down his FTs, so he should get opportunities to close games with a few cheap points when needed. Those two factors could slide him in front of Doke, though I would anticipate they average roughly the same over the course of the season.
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Dedrick 20 Grimes 14 Dok 13 Dotson 10 Vick 9 Garrett 6 Moore 4 Mitch 3 KJ 3 McCormack 2 DeSousa 0 Ochai 0Hope I’m not too high on Vick.
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@justanotherfan Dotson, on a ppm basis, was the MVP of the team. His maturity was shocking to me. He looked like Frank … alot. Just the way he popped the 3’s, the drives, the steals… the whole package. He was going up against what is considered one of the premier point guards in the country, and I think he outplayed him. In his first game. The team didn’t play nearly as good when Charlie was running the team. To me, Dotson is irreplaceable in the lineup.
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How to get minutes for Billy Self
“Well he had a great game passing,” Bill Self said. “We’ll take a double-double any night. And I thought he fed the post very, very well.”
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Ruh roh
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We are officially in the danger zone.
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He has zero confidence. We need a couple blowout games where Self can play him 25-30 minutes
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Woodrow said:
He has zero confidence. We need a couple blowout games where Self can play him 25-30 minutes
exactly the same thing I’m seeing- - his confidence in himself is SHOT right now - he is really pressing and mercy do we need him.
At this point and time - -Devon is playing so much better , maybe not is scoring , but just his all around game - -and like I’ve said from day one - - man this kid is quick - -end to end you have to love that. - -Hope Quentin can shake this soon. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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We have 3 things that have to improve in order for us to be elite. Until they get fixed, it will be a roller coaster ride.
1- Doke’s free throws.
2- Garrett shooting.
3- Quentin not involved.
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@KUSTEVE #3 Will happen. #1 Will improve, but I don’t know by how much. #2…….I am not holding my breath.
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@KUSTEVE gotta add 3 pt D to the list.
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@KUSTEVE sorry, man. I normally agree with you about a lot of things but that list is not one of them.
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@Crimsonorblue22 yep. Bill, IMO, is living in the past in regard to three point defense. Bilas says it in every game - “You simple CAN’T leave a corner shooter wide open”, and he is absolutely correct. Apparently, Self would rather take his chances on a practice-type jumper that a guy would take in warm-ups than risk a guy making a guarded two over the top of a defender. Makes no sense whatsoever.
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@HawkChamp You don’t think Doke’s free throw shooting needs improvement? Garrett’s jumper doesn’t need to be fixed…or Grimes doesn’t need to get more involved?
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Bilas is pointing out at the obvious consequences of leaving shooters open but he is really not addressing WHY they are open. You are saying that a Hall of Fame coach does not how to coach and purposely leaves the corners open? Have you consider that maybe the players are not executing the way they should?
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@JayHawkFanToo Maybe a lot of players come out of college having played zone most or all of their lives. So, when someone starts coming toward them, they shade over.
I suggest this because they not only leave the guys in the corner; they actually also never really get to a defensive position on the dribbler, either. At best, they just lunge an arm toward the guy and risk the used-to-be-seen-more-often-but-thank-God-not-so-much-anymore “reaching in” foul. Then the ball is passed and our guys look caught in no man’s land as if they have idea who to cover. If they were used to playing man, it should not be a mystery.
Another possibility is that too many players, especially the fast and athletic guys we tend to get, may have relied for years on their quickness to step in to try for a “big play”–on defense, denial by tight coverage is not as spectacular as a block, or, better yet, a steal and a fast break. So they move to the ball almost instinctively. And look dumb because most Div I talent is not as mediocre as most of their prior opponents.
Another factor may just simply be overconfidence in how far they can move and still have time to recover. Anyone remember the scene in some show, I thought it was “White Shadow,” where the coach demonstrates how much faster a passed ball gets to a spot than the kids could run?
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Good points. Jeff Withey had an interesting interview when he made it to the NBA. He indicated the experience was similar to when he moved from HS to college…the game was so much faster and he had to wait until the game “slowed down” before he was once gain effective. Players at elite programs are so much better than the competition in HS that with little effort they can dominate at that level. Once the get to college they find out that every player is as good or better than they are and the playbook considerably more extensive and complicated that what they are accustomed and takes time to get acclimated. Some players adapt fairly quickly and some take a lot more time; I believe this is the case with Grimes.
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Self runs a lot of variations of the same play. Subtle changes in the D dictate slight changes in the execution of the play. This takes time to figure out. Self’s system isn’t dumbed down like Cal’s freshman dominated team’s system is. Upperclassmen shine in Self’s system. Transfers have the advantage of practicing a year so they do well also. Freshman take a little time to figure it out. I look for vast improvement over Christmas break.
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Q had a great game last night. Would love to see more of that moving forward especially with the Doke injury.
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Grimes’ struggles have a lot to do with how KU’s offense was running. KU was looking to get Dedric and Doke involved first, using Grimes as a floor spacing shooter. This is a role Grimes has probably never been in his entire life. Add to that the fact that Dotson was handling the ball, and suddenly Grimes isn’t even getting touches on a lot of possessions. That’s something Grimes probably hasn’t ever experienced as a basketball player.
His offensive rhythm was off. It’s somewhat similar to what we saw Malik Newman struggle with last year. For the first time in their lives, these guys were 1) off the ball and 2) not the primary (or even secondary) offensive option. That’s a huge adjustment.
With Doke out now, I think both Lawson and Grimes take their games up a notch. The question is how to reintroduce Doke once he comes back.
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Really good points and probably spot on about Grimes.
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Grimes really slipping down draft boards. I’d bet on him being back at this point.
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Dreaming of a world where KU has Dotson, Grimes, and one of Dedric, Doke, or De Sousa back for next season.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich We desperately need some post help for next season. KJ, Mitch and Big Dave isn’t going to cut it.
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At this point yeah he is really damaging his stock.
I do however believe he’s going to turn it around. He had some pro moments against Wofford and early looked in rhythm against NM St. A few unfortunate aggressive plays to the hoop saddled him on the bench and he never recovered from it. Tools are all there but he’s the one guy that still looks out of sync with teammates.
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Agreed. I think it’s likely that KU has at least one more big for next season in the form of a recruit, transfer, or someone on the current roster.
I am very high on Dave despite the fact that he can’t get onto the court this season.
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@BeddieKU23 I’m hoping. I’m worried Bill might ruin him for this season.
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This next draft is sooooo weak is the biggest issue for guys returning.
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I think Dedric will be back. He just doesn’t have the athleticism to get it done on that end of the floor. He’s not fast enough to keep up with perimeter guys, and the 4’s in the NBA will expose his size.
Grimes needs to get the ball and get downhill more often. He can’t seem to find his place in this offense yet. He also may need to crash the offensive glass. Sometimes a few effort type plays can get you back on track offensively.
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@BShark will Charlie and McBride be enough when Dotson leaves us? I can’t remember, do we have another likely PG commit?
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@justanotherfan It’s not just about the NBA when players decide to leave early. I don’t think Dedric is going to be a NBA player, but what does he accomplish by coming back next year? He is just wasting another year. He can go to Europe and make a very nice living.
I don’t think anyone should think Dedric is coming back. It makes no sense for him at all.
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approxinfinity said:
@BShark will Charlie and McBride be enough when Dotson leaves us? I can’t remember, do we have another likely PG commit?
BIG trouble if Dotson does go early. Self should do everything in his power to get a 2nd year.
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justanotherfan said:
I think Dedric will be back. He just doesn’t have the athleticism to get it done on that end of the floor. He’s not fast enough to keep up with perimeter guys, and the 4’s in the NBA will expose his size.
Grimes needs to get the ball and get downhill more often. He can’t seem to find his place in this offense yet. He also may need to crash the offensive glass. Sometimes a few effort type plays can get you back on track offensively.
Dedric being back would get me really excited.
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I think David had to know he wasn’t going to get much PT early with the bigs we have and he knew when he signed that SDS was here and he ain’t even cleared yet. Mitch made a statement Saturday that he needs more minutes.
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Woodrow said:
@justanotherfan It’s not just about the NBA when players decide to leave early. I don’t think Dedric is going to be a NBA player, but what does he accomplish by coming back next year? He is just wasting another year. He can go to Europe and make a very nice living.
I don’t think anyone should think Dedric is coming back. It makes no sense for him at all.
If Dedric goes to Europe, I think he will be an absolute stud. He will put up double doubles just rolling out of bed. He could play a dozen years overseas if he wanted.
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justanotherfan said:
Woodrow said:
@justanotherfan It’s not just about the NBA when players decide to leave early. I don’t think Dedric is going to be a NBA player, but what does he accomplish by coming back next year? He is just wasting another year. He can go to Europe and make a very nice living.
I don’t think anyone should think Dedric is coming back. It makes no sense for him at all.
If Dedric goes to Europe, I think he will be an absolute stud. He will put up double doubles just rolling out of bed. He could play a dozen years overseas if he wanted.
Yep, and make A LOT of money!
Keith Langford might be the best example of this over the last 20 years or so. He just accepted his role in Europe, cashed checks, and traveled the world. Pretty decent work if you can find it.
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@BShark I cant see how he keeps him here at this rate. Second game where the announcers said he might be the fastest kid in the class.
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I dont think you’ll see any Kansas guy go in the first round at this point. I bet Doke goes but its mid second round as well as Vick. Any updated mock draft I’ve seen has moved Grimes out of the first round or not getting picked at all. Dotson also isn’t on any that I’ve seen, I’d be shocked if both of those guys aren’t back next season. If Dedric is a part of a deep run in march, you may see him try to go over seas. I think with an early exit he will return but you never know @BShark had a dream we won the title and Dedric went nuts about how he coming back for another lmao.
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@Woodrow If you can find it in cities you actually want to live in. Europe is a strange, strange place. Some of the cities are so old, even basic necessities aren’t what we’re accustomed to. Add in that most of the time guys have to be willing to go to the middle-east. Which also can have strange accommodations. Food is different. Travel is different. Being in a place you don’t speak the language (and have no reason to since you will probably be playing for a different team in 9 months) can suck.
I loved every second of my time in Europe. But I also could see why some people would struggle with it. If you don’t play at one of the major Western European countries, or in a major city in one of the Eastern European countries, it takes a certain kind of person to enjoy and succeed.
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kjayhawks said:
I dont think you’ll see any Kansas guy go in the first round at this point. I bet Doke goes but its mid second round as well as Vick. Any updated mock draft I’ve seen has moved Grimes out of the first round or not getting picked at all. Dotson also isn’t on any that I’ve seen, I’d be shocked if both of those guys aren’t back next season. If Dedric is a part of a deep run in march, you may see him try to go over seas. I think with an early exit he will return but you never know @BShark had a dream we won the title and Dedric went nuts about how he coming back for another lmao.
I like @BShark’s dream
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Kcmatt7 said:
Grimes really slipping down draft boards. I’d bet on him being back at this point.
You’re calling it this early? You may be right, but there is WAY too much basketball to be played to determine anything at this point.
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@HawkChamp Grimes is reminding me of Selden, and how we had thought he could go early. And the apparent underachievement. Some Oubre similarities.
