FIBU U18 Self/Manning/Grimes
-
Agreed with the popularity of basketball in Panama. Disagree with the status of soccer here. The US has been consistently ranked in the top 25 in the world (currently 25th in the FIFA rankings out of 206 national teams) for a while now and the women’s national team is ranked #1 in the world now. The failure to make it to the current World Cup is not because of a lack of talent but because of the politics in USA soccer that have kept some of the better players off the national team. It started when Jurgen Klinsmann was hired as coach and started to bring German/Euro players playing in Europe who could also claim American citizenship instead of selecting and rewarding local talent and it came to a head when he cut Landon Donovan from the team, a player that was still not only very capable and experienced at national and international levels but had also been the leader of the team for many years. The team did not qualify for the current edition of the World Cup for the first time in a long time.
More kids 6-17 play soccer now than any other sport. The Sporting KC sells out the stadium for every game and the tickets are not cheap either. The MSL is doing very well.
Enough of soccer, back to basketball…
-
@JayHawkFanToo If you think US soccer politics are a hoot try France or Spain.
Overall the US system just isn’t good enough yet, needs more time.
-
Women’s soccer succeeds here in the US because, among girls, soccer is one of the most popular sports. As one of the most popular sports in the US among girls, the best female athletes in the US grow up playing soccer, softball, or basketball, then select whichever one they are best at as they get older. In a country the size of the US, that is a recipe for dominance. The US is #1 in the world in women’s basketball, softball and consistently 1 or 2 in soccer.
For men’s sports, soccer lags behind football, basketball, baseball, and in many places hockey. That means the most athletic boys grow up playing other sports. As a result, US soccer teams usually don’t have the type of athletes, the physically coordinated, fast, quick, explosive, elusive athletes with great coordination, balance and agility that are most successful in soccer, on the field because those kids are playing wide receiver, or running back, or center field, or shooting guard.
This is shifting as football’s popularity as a youth sport continues to decline. More kids are playing soccer, which means better athletes are playing soccer, which will eventually mean better US teams playing soccer on the world stage. Just not yet.
-
Soccer in America is already well established and doing well and continues to grow and the level is very good. Look at the record against Mexico, the strongest team on North American and a traditional top 10-15 world power, it is 33–18–14 (W–L–T) overall in Mexico’s favor; however, during the last 18 years the record is 13–6–5 (W–L–T) in favor of the US including a win at Azteca Stadium where the US had never beat Mexico before…this is real progress.
Since 1990, US has qualified for the World Cup 7 times in a row and has been ranked in the top 25 every time except 1 and as high as #8. No question that the US was a legitimate top 20 team until this upcoming tournament. Here is a summary…
The other thing that US is doing that is different than the rest of the world is using very young players (early 20s) and dismissing the older players (late 20s and older). Look at the top 100 players in the world and you will see that the majority are over 30 years, same thing with most national teams.
-
@JayHawkFanToo What does the US FIFA rankings (a complete joke by the way) have to do with how popular soccer is here in the US? I live in a city with an NFL, NBA, MLB, and MLS team. Texans are by far the number 1 team in the city followed by the Astros, then the Rockets, then the Dynamo lag well behind those three despite being the most successful team of the 4 since moving to Houston in 2006 having won two MLS Cups, and playing for 2 other MLS Cups and being playoff regulars. They’re still 4th in Houston despite the huge Hispanic population here where soccer is the top sport.
The Dynamo are one of the teams that in theory should be a bigger draw than they are giving the historic success of the franchise and the demographics of the city, but I’ve been to plenty of games where it’s been about 60% capacity in an 18,000 seat stadium because people still care far more about the other 3 pro teams in the city.
-
@justanotherfan And it’s not just the quality of players, it’s the coaching too.
When the old North American Soccer League started about 50 years ago, it inspired a number of ex-pat Brits and others to start up youth leagues in many cities including Kansas City. Trouble is, not enough of them had high-level coaching experience.
It’s like a Panamanian basketball fan deciding to become a coach, and then going up against Bill Self.
It takes several generations to catch up with the established soccer powers. Even China, with its massive population and big money salaries to domestic league players, isn’t anywhere close to the US…not on the men’s side anyway.
-
My post was response to your statement:
It’s same issue with soccer in this country. Soccer is at best the 4th most popular sport in this country which is why the US has always struggled to compete against world powers and and significant factor in why the US failed to qualify for the World Cup this year.
The fist part is correct (but changing) the second is not. I wrote the reason why the US did not qualify for the current cup and now competes with the world power and has recent wins against England, Germany and Italy among others. more kids 6-17 are now playing soccer than any other sport and its popularity is only going to increase. Just my opinion, obviously, but with lots of stat to back it up.
Now, back to basketball…
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 FIFA finally changed and is switching to elo.
-
Wonder who gets to sit in the recliners? I can see sz in one, oh yeah,
-
Well just some random thoughts after watching our USA team pretty much man handle Puerto Rico tonight 115-71.
!st : thing is , I like Matthew Hurt before these games , now after watching these first three games? - - Man I want this kid , would be really sweet to land him , 12 points again tonight , ya not staggering but when you think we don’t need a single dominant player in these games. Such balance on this USA team. Hurt has a nice 3 pt shot , can block some shots - -rebounds. I’m just really impressed more now then I was before. - - I had been hearing we are in the lead for him - - - Then I read of the UK Board that said one insider said that KU was in the lead but they thought UK was going to be KU’s biggest challenge. Right now hurt says that Duke - - -Kentucky - - UCLA - --N Carolina - - KU - - Memphis - - Indiana - - Louisville- - - & Minnesota were the one’s recruiting him the hardest. - - - Wants to be able to cut list down to 8-10 by the end of the summer. - -Hoping to be able to make a decision by November, gonna take his 5 official visits. - -Then while I was watching the game from a person that was in a group discussion they said they has heard that Indiana was in the lead for him - -I call BS on that one.
2nd: - - Robinson Earle has been looking pretty good. - - like 13 points and 10 rebounds today. Again with him being in state I feel we got to land this kid , pretty solid had a couple of monster flushes tonight , really goes to the boards - kind of that dirty work player , hustles like his looks. - -Here again have heard that we were pretty solid with him and then yet I heard even think it was here possibly that N Carolina had made a really big push for him and now was in a pretty solid position for him. - -I think we need to land this kid in our own back yard.
3rd: - -Quentin Grimes - -has look pretty good driving the ball pretty steady on the defensive end BUT the thing is this youngin has got some work to do shooting the ball from distance. - -I’ve watched all 3 games and he needs lots of repetition shooting from the outside. We really need him to be able to hit the J on a fairly consistant basis. - -Hasn’t looked real good. - - Not bad , but could for sure improve - -needs to take these summer months and work on that part of his game - -we gonna need that from him - -help keep the defense from other teams honest.
Bottom line is guys – man I sure hope we land these two - - Hurt - -Earle - I know their pretty high priority these are the types we really need to land - -can’t lose out on. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
A lot of US players have complained in the past about the FIBA ball and that it has a different texture. That may be affecting Grimes shot in game. His shot and mechanics looked good in HS. Its definitely something to watch.
-
I can’t remember which of our guys, but somebody said they liked that ball. Maybe from the world games? By the way, I’m watching the West Virginia KU game at AFH, from this past year. I was there, awesome! Espnu
-
He did score 20 points so hard to complain. He did have a decent form in HS so I imagine his shot will get better even when he is really at his best when driving inside.
-
I wouldn’t worry too much about Grimes shot. He was 39% in High School on over 200 attempts this past season. He’ll be one of our best shooters, if not the best.
Hurt is a very skilled player. You can see he lacks top end athleticism but he’s everything you want in a 4 man otherwise. His lack of athleticism could keep him in College multiple years.
Very impressed with Robinson-Earl. He’s not a prospect we can let get by.
This is basically free recruiting for Self with Hurt/JRE etc. Other coaches have benefited in the past from it. Bamba went to Texas for example because of the relationship Smart had with him from Team USA ball… That’s the type of benefit Self can get from this.
Let me put it this way if Hurt & JRE choose another school after being coached by Self this summer I’d have to question why they were ever interested in KU before. If this doesn’t sell them to be coached be a HOF’er I don’t know what will.
-
I’ve enjoyed watching the FIBA U18 games. The one thing that I’ve noticed about Grimes is his size; on the defensive switches he’s strong enough that he plays solid defense in the paint against bigger players. Whereas Garrett is slender, Grimes is stronger and is physical on defense. On offense, I like that Grimes looks for multiple ways to score like Malik Newman. I’m looking forward to the game with Canada.
-
@BeddieKU23 I agree with you on Hurt. - -A friend and I were talking last night and I said to him cause he also talked about him not being the most athletic - -which is quite possibly true. However like I told him he is not a guy that is going to wow you , yet having said that he is just very solid pretty consistent. - -I like his outside J - has shown in these games that he can hit the three, rebounds the ball pretty well, seems to have pretty decent handle seen him leading the fast break a couple of times dribbling the ball down the floor even though that’s not what we need from a big man lol.
Totally agree with Earle. - -We just flat plain and simple can not afford to let a recruit of this type t get away from us right in our own back yard. I really - - really like him seems like he really likes hitting the glass - -he to me is a type of dirty work player scrapping for everything and gets quite a bit. I WANT HIM - - hope we land both. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
The biggest issue I see with landing both JRE & Hurt is they play the same position. We’ll see how it plays out. JRE I’ve believed has been a silent commit since last year. I can’t imagine at the end of the day him going somewhere else. We talk about pressure kids have to stay local when KU is recruiting Out of State kids and how often we lose those battles because of it. This is an example of a prospect KU has been on for years with as good of a connection as you can get. Crazier things have happened but I can’t imagine he’s seriously entertaining leaving KS.
Hurt seems like one of the top 3 targets for Self/KU. The Memphis coaching change threw a curveball in his recruitment. I know Duke & Indiana among others will press still as well. Being coached by Self is as good of an advantage as we are going to gain in this one. His father is involved, we know how those situations can get. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him wait until spring.
-
Grimes size definitely stands out at the guard position. Self could definitely trot out 3 ball handlers in Dotson/Grimes/Garrett. Dedric is skilled with the ball as well, underrated passer. Those 4 with Doke could be a very advantageous lineup and KU’s best 5 by season’s end
-
@BeddieKU23 They both play the same position? - are you absolute sure on that? - you could very easily be right it’s just from what I’ve seen in these games is that Earle has been playing exclusive in the middle - - -at the 5 - while Hurt has been out on the floor. - At least the times when they have been on the floor together which has been quite a bit actually - -actually even when Hurt hasn’t been in I’ve seen Earle playing the 5 but could quite possibly be wrong. I bet Coach Self could make it work , That could be why I’ve been seeing what I’ve seen. Coach maybe showing them how they could play together at the same time. - -I don’t know - All I know is I would love to have them both lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@BeddieKU23 I could see 4 guards and Dedric too. Moore, Dotson, grimes and Garrett.
-
Grimes is a strong and a good rebounding guard, got some ups too.
-
Yeah in Team USA ball Self is getting away with JRE at the 5 right now. I don’t think its the position he’ll play in College though. I was also projecting that if McCormack is our starting 5 man in the 19/20 season there’s only 1 spot available to start. I’m sure both of them want to land in situations with a chance to start. That’s not including what could happen with KJ Lawson, Lightfoot & De Sousa who could all be back after next year as well. We’ll see on that front. So the further you look into it, how does Self convince them both to sign when both would likely be coming into situations where they are competing against each other or against veteran KU players. A lot of unknowns. Not sure we can sign both in November if both go that route. I think there’s a chance Hurt goes spring but we’ll see
-
@BeddieKU23 Either is a really nice fit with McCormack. Both look like multiple year guys too. Would be great to get both.
-
It would be great to get both. How likely that happens is anyone’s guess. A big advantage to Self here getting to coach them in the middle of their recruitments.
-
@BeddieKU23 I would agree it’s not going to be an easy sell. You have to convince one to be a back-up. For the first time in their life probably.
-
If I had to pick 1, it’d be JRE. He’s got a great feel for reading boards. Hurts a great 3 pt shooter, maybe we just haven’t seen that side of JRE, yet.
-
When’s the game today?
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
When’s the game today?
No game today. Kids get the day off. Next team USA game is 4pm CST tomorrow.
-
As always thx!
-
Both JRE and Hurt are natural college PFs but I have seen a few publications that list Hurt as a SF. I will guess that Hurt can play SF or stretch PF in college. Big Dave and Hurt would be a nice front line with Big Dave staying inside and Hurt stepping out to hit the 3.
-
I don’t want Hurt playing much, if any 3 in college because I don’t think he can guard smaller wings. Ideally we’d have Hurt at the 4 and Silvio or Dave at the 5, with JRE being the first big off the bench.
-
USA v Ecuador at 5PM Central Thursday.
-
So which is it - - do we play at 4 - -or do we play at 5 today?
-
I heard 4?
-
@FarmerJayhawk I read where Self called Hurt an athletic guard.
-
@jayballer73 it’s not on, must be 5
-
@jayballer73 is your channel in Spanish?
-
@Crimsonorblue22 English channel here
-
@BShark got it, kinda slow!
-
ground breaking analysis: Ecuador is not good
-
@BShark thought u were going to say that about me being slow!
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@jayballer73 is your channel in Spanish?
It was at first. Then I back out and connected again it was English. - I was thinking what the hell lol
-
Thank GOD. - -tomorrow things will be much better competition. I think we play Argentina. - These games have just been sad.
We have won by 32 ( our closest game ) - - -44 - - -77 - - -& 92 - that’s just nuts.
Let me say again after watching the game. - -We MUST we just HAVE to land Earle. - We can not let N Carolina slither in here and take him from us. - Tonight looked even better to me anyways -I realize the competition was sad but still - - very fluid - - -very mobile nice medium range jumper - -please oh please - -this is my Christmas wish.
My 2nd Christmas wish : -let me say this slowly - - - M – A - - T - -T - H - -E - W - - - - H - -U – R --T - - please Santee - -no Coal - -just these two that’s all I ask for. - -this kid has shown consistently he will knock down that 3 - - rebounds - does anyone still have doubt? - - don’t count me in - I’m ready.
We will see these next two games how these guys do - I think they will be fine. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
Leave it to someone from the UK board. You really need to sit down for this one although he did say , that possibly some paranoid conspiracy-minded type might suspect Coach Self is running up these crazy ass victory margin to make Cal’s failure last summer look even worse. - - -OMFG seriously? roflmao.
Ya that’s exactly what coach Self is doing, that’s his only train of thought for these games. - -Let me see if I can make Coach Cal look even worse for last summer lmao.
What Else can Coach do? - -he is subbing in and out like hockey lines [ - -five at a time - -like playing 5 minute segments. - -he is playing all kinds of different combinations. Like the announcers say you can’t expect the USA kids to quit playing - -quit trying. – - the real question isn’t that he is trying to run up the score - it’s what else can he do? Also like the announcers say - it’s not we have to have one kid put up 35-40 points. Against Puerto Rico our leading scorer had 20 ( Quentin ) - -Tonight our leading scorer had 20 - it’s just balanced scoring - no show boating - no glares - just team Basketball.
Thank GOD better Competition these next two nights. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
Last year, Calipari coached the U19 team that included several college players and lost a critical game to Canada in the semi-finals but won the rest by a lot. Coach Self is coaching the U18 team that does not include any college players.
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@FarmerJayhawk I read where Self called Hurt an athletic guard.
I think he misspoke. The plan is to play him at the 4 if we get him.
-
Other than the US, most of the countries in the Americas do not have well developed high school programs, which means their U18 and lower teams are often under-developed. Here in the US, because we have a robust HS program, it is very easy to identify the best HS players in the country (and we have lots of them).
USA has never lost a game in the U16 competition (closest game last year was a 41 point win). The team shot almost 57% from the field for the tournament. RJ Hampton, Jalen Green and Vernon Carey are some names you would recognize from that roster.
The USA U17 team is 30-0 at the World Championships. They will be playing in a couple of weeks in Argentina. Vernon Carey, RJ Hampton, and Jalen Green will likely be on that team this year, although training camp starts today with a roster of 30 that has to get cut down to 12, so that’s not guaranteed. Still, the US has never lost at the U17 level.
The U18 team is 53-2 at the Americas Cup, losing in the semifinal in 2002, and the title game in 2008.
The U19 team is 91-14 all time.
You see the difference. Undefeated at the U16 and U17 levels. Only a couple of losses (and never prior to the semifinal) at the U18 level. A crazy winning percentage (.866) at the U19 level, but compared to undefeated or .963, that’s a substantial drop. Basically goes from no chance to a snowball’s chance in hell, to maybe you have a shot. Most countries don’t have enough talent at the lower levels, so they play their best younger players up. A guy like Svi, who played on the U16 Ukranian team in 2013, then played for the senior national team in the 2014 basketball World Cup, then the U20 team in 2016. That’s the equivalent of a guy like Lebron James making the national team as a high school junior in 2002. That would probably never happen here in the US. Just too much talent ahead of him to even consider a player like that.
-
Canada has pretty decent HS basketball and well over 100 players were playing Division I basketball in the US as of a couple of years ago (close to 200 next season) including some high profile top 10 players at elite programs.
-
@JayHawkFanToo - - Still funny as hell to listen to Kentucky fans whine like little bitches. -
-
Anybody watching?
