Matt Tait doing his weekly
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@Statmachine Surprise - - Surprise - - -hmm who seen that coming LOL - - well there is step 1 - Next LaGerald? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark YEP - - -just a matter of time - -Sep one complete. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer73 said:
@Statmachine Surprise - - Surprise - - -hmm who seen that coming LOL - - well there is step 1 - Next LaGerald? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Vick won’t be here next season one way or another.
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I like Matt, he’s a nice guy and I tend to agree with him most the time. I think this is spot on with what most of had said here recently. I still would be nothing short of completely shocked to see Doke not return next season, I wouldn’t be surprised if he test the waters to get insight. I think this is a huge offseason for Doke in terms of improvement, he had his wrist injury a year ago that probably hurt some of his delvelopment.
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The Vick situation is troubling to me. He is not an NBA player and even more so now. A huge part of college is learning how to handle adversity and to learn to perform even when you are uncomfortable. Vick is missing a great opportunity to grow as human being by staying. I dont think these kids should feel like a failure if they stay four years.
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The Vick situation feels very similar to the Brannen Greene and Naadir Tharpe situations of a player being forced out, but not publicly being thrown under the bus. It feels like Self is allowing Vick to figure out his next move and allowing Vick to announce to save face for Vick.
With Vick’s lack of maturity apparently coming through with his lack of leadership and lack of even wanting to be leader combined with him being the only senior next year had he stayed was something troublesome brewing.
Doke absolutely needs to stay, his skillset does not fit with the current NBA. Extending his range is something Doke needs to do on his own this summer to help his draft stock out. We wouldn’t see it in games because of the high-low next year that should be returning, but scouts could still him extend his range in practice or pregame warm ups.
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@BigBad Vick NEEDS money.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Very much agree and I have insinuated as much before.
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Another worst kept secret in Lawrence (i.e., “Vick NEEDS money.”)?
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@CRH107 I’ve heard he has kids, plural. Kids are expensive.
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SkinnyKansasDude said:
Malik and Legerald walk Mitch is redshirted Dok returns and we land Romeo is looking like the scenario
Sold. Where do I pay?
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HighEliteMajor said:
SkinnyKansasDude said:
Malik and Legerald walk Mitch is redshirted Dok returns and we land Romeo is looking like the scenario
Sold. Where do I pay?
There might be a go-fund-me account somewhere out there already.
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BShark said:
@BigBad Vick NEEDS money.
He doesnt have pro ability. He has everything he needs at Kansas and I’m sure gets a Pell Grant.
Always amazed how guys who “need money” have enough for tattoos.
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BigBad said:
BShark said:
@BigBad Vick NEEDS money.
He doesnt have pro ability. He has everything he needs at Kansas and I’m sure gets a Pell Grant.
Always amazed how guys who “need money” have enough for tattoos.
You don’t have to play in the NBA to make money. Vick will be fine.
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BeddieKU23 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
SkinnyKansasDude said:
Malik and Legerald walk Mitch is redshirted Dok returns and we land Romeo is looking like the scenario
Sold. Where do I pay?
There might be a go-fund-me account somewhere out there already.
No money left in the ‘17-‘18 Referee Fund?
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@BigBad Pell Grants don’t pay you six figures and they get the tattoos for free, guaranteed.
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Releford said (back when he was playing) they use their stipend on the tats. Something like $500 per month, which isn’t too shabby if correct.
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@dylans I would bet that they don’t get charged the full $500…
That tattoo thing was going on well before the stipend was introduced. Everyone knows someone. And It is just good advertising for a tattoo artist to have someone “famous” running around with their work showing.
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@BigBad, you said, “Always amazed how guys who ‘need money’ have enough for tattoos.” This statement transcends sports, and items beyond tattoos.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BigBad, you said, “Always amazed how guys who ‘need money’ have enough for tattoos.” This statement transcends sports, and items beyond tattoos.
So many people are very bad with money. Most can’t be or don’t want to be helped with it either. Unfortunate.
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The flip side to that is some kids send part of the stipend home to their family.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I am always impressed with the local Hispanic population’s ability to work for near minimum wage and still send a significant money order to family in Mexico every payday.
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Vick will be a pro. He has the clearest path IMO because he is a 3 and D wing player. Every team needs at least 3 of those guys.
I think Tait nailed it that Doke is a player without an era right now. He just doesn’t fit into where the NBA is going, and to some extent, where the college game is going. He was so clearly out of place against Villanova. That is a hard thing to deal with.
To improve, Doke needs to work more away from the basket. A year of having to guard Dedric out on the perimeter would do him well, but Self will likely have him inside banging against McCormack. Given the need for versatility on both ends, I am not sure that helps KU or the players.
Doke is in a tough spot. I don’t think he improves his pro chances by staying at KU, but I also don’t think he’s ready to make the jump. On top of that, I am not sure he makes KU better next season if he stays. This is incredibly complicated for a guy that is legitimately talented. He could shoot 80% from the field next year, but there would be games where he would be outright unplayable. The question is would Self just not play him in those situations?
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That’s a complicated but true post in regards to Doke. Does Doke really look capable of being a guy that’s going to play away from the basket?
Round hole, square peg kind of thing isn’t it?
Self would play him I assume, he seems to really like him and trusts him.
He was a bad matchup for the one team that had a big capable of exploiting it. Odds are we don’t play a team next year besides Nova (if Spellman returns) that can make Doke ineffective like that. We don’t know whether another off-season working on his game, being 100% healthy and motivated to change the narrative about him would change that. It could but maybe it doesn’t. He’s so young we don’t know exactly how to project what he can do. We do know he came a long way in 1 year and even that was done without a full year without interruption. Tough call here
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Initially, I would have agreed with your thoughts. However, I was talking to a friend and they got me thinking.
If I coached at a midmajor, I would be better off recruiting undersized skill guys and playing 5 out than trying to match up with smaller, or less skilled big men. If I know I will never have a 7 footer, why bother with a slow 6-9 guy when I can grab a 6-7 guy and see if he can develop a decent shot, or handle the ball a little bit to draw big men away from the rim.
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I see both sides of the coin. There were a lot of games we wouldn’t have won without Doke this season. We don’t make the F4 without his perseverance to get back on the court and help this team. We also lost one game directly because of him and our season ended with him being ineffective against a stretch 5. He really is unique and an antique in today’s changing game.
I don’t know where Self is going with his team next year. The 4 guard lineup or having a hybrid 4 that has shooting skills seems like the future we need to keep up with. That makes Doke returning maybe not the best fit for this team. We have options that may fit keeping up with this new offensive identity. Dedric is capable of being the lone true big on the floor that can stretch the defense (unlike Doke) who’s advantage was posting and ISO’s.
I guess we won’t know for sure what’s happening until he makes his decision… It would be interesting to see what Self did with Doke if he does return.
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What if Doke goes and Mike Daum would grad transfer to KU?
(All fiction, no malice)
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BShark said:
What if Doke goes and Mike Daum would grad transfer to KU?
(All fiction, no malice)
Is Daum eligible for that? Did he shirt a year?
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@BeddieKU23 Yeah he redshirted. He will be 23 before the next season starts.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Yeah he redshirted. He will be 23 before the next season starts.
Wow sign up the Dauminator
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@BeddieKU23 He was apparently mentored by Kirk Hinrich fwiw.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 He was apparently mentored by Kirk Hinrich fwiw.
Holy Batman lets make this work
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Isn’t Daum a volume shooter? How would that fit?
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@Gorilla72 Not really moreso than Dedric. Also with the caveat that he has been playing in the Summit his PER has been above 30 every season.
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This is all just a fun fantasy though.
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Gorilla72 said:
Isn’t Daum a volume shooter? How would that fit?
He’s a stretch big that averaged 25 and 23 the last two seasons on 15, 16 shots a game. Over 40% from 3 on 200 attempts, great FT shooter, good rebounder. Makes tough shots and can light it up. There would be no better transfer on the market
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You’re on the money there. It’s what makes Doke such a fascinating player. He’s a throwback that doesn’t necessarily fit in this era of basketball. As a result, there are games where he outright dominated, and others where he just can’t find his footing. Doke may be the most matchup dependent player in the country. Against a team that let’s him stay in the paint, he is one of the most dominant players in the country. Against a team that makes him play 15+ feet from the basket, he’s a liability.
The thing is, there’s really not much in between. He can literally dunk you to death if you let him stay in the paint, whether against a man to man or a zone. But if he has to chase guys on the perimeter, he’s a foul prone, out of position traffic cone, hesitant to come all the way out to the perimeter to defend, but too far from the basket to rebound and protect the rim.
I have literally never seen anything like it.
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Other than nova, did we have a match up problem w/Doke?
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The only other thing I’d like to mention is if it’s not Doke taking those possessions in the paint then it’s someone else. Someone else who doesn’t shoot near 80%. Not that any of that is a bad thing to rely on others as the options are really good but maybe we are selling Doke short a tad. I don’t know, I think it’s all trivial as I think he’s leaving to make a better life for him and his family but if he does return then there’s plenty of work to be done to make him as versatile as they can. He has seemed like a sponge here and could really lock in on his skill set.
That KJ/Silvio Dedric trio looks very promising and might be a better defensive trio then any lineup with Doke could provide us. I have a feeling our rebounding and positional rebounding on offense for putbacks would improve as well which were weak spots for Doke at his size. I’m assuming a bit but taking what we know about all 3 the longterm benefit of those 3 might surpass what Doke would give us. Then your throwing in mitch and a freshman bruiser which gives KU a ton of options. Thoughts?
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I like Dok. I also like that there will be depth beyond him next season to give Bill options when the matchup is unfavorable.
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@dylans 35% plus 3 pt shooter?
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Yes and
bruisers: Dok/McCormack
Quick bigs: Dedrick/DeSousa
Rebounders: DeSousa/McCormack
Shot blockers: Lightfoot/Dok
Scorer: Dedrick and…
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Just because a player is not destined for the NBA it does not mean he cannot be a good or even outstanding in college. The NBA is moving towards smaller but more athletics players that can step away from the basket and hit the 3. There are still a few players left that fit Doke’s category but the success of Golden State has teams moving to that style of play.
Now, college is not quite there yet. While the NBA has lots of big bodies that can match Doke in size and are a lot stronger, there is not that many players in college that can physically match with Doke so he can be a dominant and successful player. Doke would benefit from an extra year in college where he can develop a mid range game to complement the power inside and improve his basketball IQ so he can become a better rebounder; many players have had decent careers in the NBA by mostly rebounding.
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I think Doke is a tremendous college player. I also think Doke should have only played 10 minutes (or less) against Villanova. Those are two thoughts that are not mutually exclusive.
Doke is a great player. He led the nation in shooting percentage, and had one of the great shooting seasons in the history of college basketball. That will certainly play.
The difficultly is that, because his pluses are so big, it’s hard to take him out of games even when the matchup is terrible for him.
That’s what makes me hesitate with him. It’s not that he’s not good. It’s that he’s so good, it’s hard to say, Doke is a near All American, but we aren’t going to play him against such and such team because its a bad matchup. That’s a tough call to make. If Doke were less good, that would be an easy decision. But he’s not, so it’s hard to just not play him, even when the situation dictates that you should not play him if a team is playing a legitimate 5 out line up.
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@JayHawkFanToo Very well said. - -the very same point that I have said and many others from different sites. - -It makes it sound I’m trying to put Doke down - -that’s not the case at all. - -Like you say Doke is a really good COLLEGE player. - However just as you said he if he wants a legit shot in the NBA - he has just got to develop some kind of outside jumper. - -his little hook is not going to cut it in the NBA - other 5’s that can jump higher more mobile will swat that out all day long, Doke can be a very dominant College player - -as you say however the NBA is moving away from the type of game Doke plays - -this make a lot of people wonder if Doke will ever be able to make a living in the NBA.
Oh there will probably be some team that will give him a shot strictly of his bulk - but he needs to improve his lateral foot movement - become a better rim protector/rebounder - -and he is only going to be able to work on that by coming back for yet another year.
One thing that worries me - -is can he develop a jumper? - -when you watch how he struggles shooting a free throw - -the same thing pretty much is used in the mechanics of a jump shot - your elbow - -position of the ball in your hand - etc- - etc -as well as Doke has come along - he has a long ways to go for any kind of extended say in the NBA. - - Another thing is he needs to be more positive on his move - just seems like he try to over think his shot - too mechanical - to slow in developing other when he just rips the rim off - doesn’t take a lot of thinking on that shot lol - he just needs to get the ball and go - Still a really good College player. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
