Bracketology thread for the next few weeks.
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Oklahoma drops to 16-11 losers 9 of their last 11, most places still have them as a 9, not even on the last 4 byes list SMH. If they get in without winning at least 3 more games including the B12 tournament, its rigged for viewership plain and simple.
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We play more like this we just might be a top seed. I still don’t want it.
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@wissox i was actually getting excited about playing as a lower seed but you’re right if we win the b12 we will be a 1 for sure.
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I don’t agree. This team is just too good to lose to #16 seed. All the loses have been to very good or good teams, a #16 seed would likely be ranked outside the top 100 and would have had to be in a play-in game. The parity in college basketball is in the top 20-40 teams not between a top 10 and a below 100 team. No way, no how, no ma’am.
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@jayballer73 @JayHawkFanToo This team will smoke the PANTS off most 16 or even 15s I can think of. Absolutely drilled all similar teams we played like that in the non-con. Those kind of teams don’t have the defensive athletes that give this KU team a lot of trouble.
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OU simply has to be on the bubble if not out right now don’t they? I don’t see justification for anything otherwise. Don’t have time to look it up. But I wonder of any other team has lost 6 straight at any point during the season and still made it. And that’s 6 and counting by the way…
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@cragarhawk Supposedly they are on the 8/9 line now. Kinda crazy. KSU is in a worse spot allegedly. I guess after KSU smokes OU again that will change. And I’m no KSU fan I’ve just seen this KU team play both of these teams twice and KSU is much better despite KU’s record against both of them.
KSU if they win out would be looking at going 0-6 vs the three best/most talented teams in the league, but 10-0 against the others. I am not sure I’ve seen anything like that before.
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The only team that made it with a conference record of 4 games below even was ISU a long, long time ago. OU needs to win the next 3 or it will be in serious trouble; anything less than 2 wins and it is out.
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I believe Lunardi said they were dropping a seed line with every loss. Despite the losing streak and downward trend they are still in due to the high quality wins they have. They need to get to 8-10 or 9-9 in conference and survive a round in the Big-12 tourney in order to change the narrative that has been painted on them now. I would say they are still in as of today but that their situation is still fluid. They are not making the tournament if they finish conference 6-12. Only one team ever (Iowa St back before the Big-12) has ever made the tourney with a 7-11 conference mark.
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That would be rare.
Does that make KSU actually better then OU though? OU has big wins which K-St has none. OU and K-St are different teams now so the argument could be made that K-St would have a better chance of winning a big game now
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@BeddieKU23 Certainly is KSU wins out in the regular season they should be ahead of OU in seeding. They will have beat OU twice and OU will at least have another loss.
Their rancid noncon is definitely hurting them now. The ASU loss isn’t bad, but the Tulsa game bites hard. When you schedule 95% terrible teams in the non-con you have no margin for error.
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@BeddieKU23 “I believe Lunardi said they were dropping a seed line with every loss.”
So they will be an 18 or 19 seed by the end of the season?
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@mayjay OMG
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in 2021 when the NCAA tourney is expanded to 136 teams a 18 or 19 seed won’t look so bad
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Certainly is KSU wins out in the regular season they should be ahead of OU in seeding. They will have beat OU twice and OU will at least have another loss.
Their rancid noncon is definitely hurting them now. The ASU loss isn’t bad, but the Tulsa game bites hard. When you schedule 95% terrible teams in the non-con you have no margin for error.
Well I wouldn’t seed KSU higher then Oklahoma just because of a H2H. KSU is definitely better, I imagine having Stokes back is only helping them now. K-St will be a tough team to seed as you said on their horrid non-con.
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If they win out against three other fringe tournament teams as well though (Texas, Baylor and TCU) they should be firmly in regardless of what happens in the conference tournament.
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@BeddieKU23 KSU’s wins are a stark contrast a their horrible losses. Even I, as fierce a fan who ever pointed an oil can in Squeaky’s direction, have to give him some points the past few weeks.
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K-State’s remaining schedule gives them an opportunity to play themselves in. Go 3-1, plus win their first Big 12 tournament game, and they probably get in. 2-2 leaves them on the bubble. Worse probably eliminates them. I do think it’s a little ridiculous that the bracket has KSU, Baylor and Texas all in, but solid teams from middle tier conferences (Boise State, St. Bonaventure) are in the same position or worse. I really do think the NCAA should move to a .500 record requirement for an at large bid. While that would hurt the Big 12 this year as one or two of TCU, Texas, and Oklahoma would probably miss the dance based on that, but if you aren’t good in your conference, why should you be competing to be the best team in the country?
.500 in conference isn’t some crazy requirement. Big 12 would still get 5 or 6 teams in this year. SEC probably would still get 8 teams in. Pac 12 would likely get 5. Big 10 would probably get 6. ACC would probably have 8 or 9. Half the field would still come from Power 5 conferences. The only difference would be that Baylor, Texas, TCU, KSU and Oklahoma would all be playing for their tournament lives over the next couple of weeks to stay above .500. Meanwhile, lots of first and second place teams from middle level conferences wouldn’t be playing for their lives just because they lost their conference tournament final. No, St. Bonaventure couldn’t win the Big 12, but this year, neither could Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Texas, or K-State. We shouldn’t compare these teams to the top teams in the conference and say they would finish towards the middle or bottom of a Power Conference when that’s exactly where Baylor is going to finish this year.
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I’m all for that requirement. would add an interesting competitive dynamic to these last few weeks
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I don’t agree. This team is just too good to lose to #16 seed. All the loses have been to very good or good teams, a #16 seed would likely be ranked outside the top 100 and would have had to be in a play-in game. The parity in college basketball is in the top 20-40 teams not between a top 10 and a below 100 team. No way, no how, no ma’am.
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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No Texas or OU. I’m for cutting the field in half and making it double elimination.
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jayballer73 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
I don’t agree. This team is just too good to lose to #16 seed. All the loses have been to very good or good teams, a #16 seed would likely be ranked outside the top 100 and would have had to be in a play-in game. The parity in college basketball is in the top 20-40 teams not between a top 10 and a below 100 team. No way, no how, no ma’am.
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes Washington is a decent team and quite a bit better than a sixteen seed.
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All of these “who deserves to get in” are dependent on conference tournaments proceeding as seeded.
When did that ever happen? For you fans who pay attention to lesser conferences, how will, say, 3 to 5 upsets in mid-major conferences change things? Which regular season champs, if upset, are automatically out, and which ones supplant the proffered “last 4 in”?
Edit: I realize a team considered in right now might stay in despite an upset. But the committee also has a history of punishing upsetees.
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jayballer73 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
I don’t agree. This team is just too good to lose to #16 seed. All the loses have been to very good or good teams, a #16 seed would likely be ranked outside the top 100 and would have had to be in a play-in game. The parity in college basketball is in the top 20-40 teams not between a top 10 and a below 100 team. No way, no how, no ma’am.
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Have you looked at the PAC 12 standings? 5th place Washington is a clear bubble team that has a winning conference record right now. Baylor and OSU are both worse losses for KU than Washington is right now.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
jayballer73 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
I don’t agree. This team is just too good to lose to #16 seed. All the loses have been to very good or good teams, a #16 seed would likely be ranked outside the top 100 and would have had to be in a play-in game. The parity in college basketball is in the top 20-40 teams not between a top 10 and a below 100 team. No way, no how, no ma’am.
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Have you looked at the PAC 12 standings? 5th place Washington is a clear bubble team that has a winning conference record right now. Baylor and OSU are both worse losses for KU than Washington is right now.
LOL, you just answered the whole subject - - PAC 12? - the conference is a joke- I know your not trying to say the Pac 12 is better the big 12 right? - -I know you didn’t just try and say that did you?. - -Have you seen what Baylor has been doing? - KU isn’t the only Big 12 team they are beating - -Pac 12 - - Big 12 - - Big 12 - -Pac 12 - -no comparison - - hell the YMCA team that Coach Self talked about a few years back when we got beat could have over a 500 winning pct in the Pac 12- Ucla isn’t squat - - USC - - - please - - -Arizona State has proved what they actually are -have you happen to see how they choked showed what they truly are - - - Arizona – possibly - their decent - - other then that - - pssssssssssssttt please get off me with that.- - Like has been stated by broadcasters analysts - - you have no given wins in the BIG 12 - -every game is a war. - -You put Washington in the Big 12 - they be right down there with Iowa state this year bottom dweller sucker. - - Washington? - - please - but that was a good joke though made me laugh thanks. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONGBABY
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That always has some effect on the bubble.
Nevada is a projected #8 seed, has been ranked multiple times during the year. If they lost the Mountain West to say UNLV or Boise St who are bubble teams (Boise St is on the next 8 out right now) that’s an example of a team maybe sweating it out Selection Sunday.
Lousiana- 23-4 currently would not get in without winning the Sun Belt, projected #12 seed. Their RPI is currently higher then Baylor, Washington, Texas, K-St, Nebraska- teams that have beaten KU or given them a tough time this year.
South Dakota & South Dakota St are a combined 47-12 but in a 1 bid league… Seperated by a 1/2 game in the standings currently, they play each other on Thursday to decide the league. SD St a team KU crushed in Allen is a projected #13 seed.
East Tennesse St- 21-5, projected #13 seed made the tourney last season and just gave its coach an extension in hopes of keeping him (likely to attract attention in the coaching carousel). They have a few bad losses, a close defeat to Xavier (by 2) and just 1 Top 100 win (against UNC Greensboro).
Loyola-Chicago 23-5 RPI #41 currently a #12 seed has a better RPI then 30+ Power 5 schools. They have a win over Florida. Could be left out if they don’t do their business in Conf Tourney…
Meanwhile a #11 loss Oklahoma team is still a projected 6 seed…
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Oklahoma and Kentucky for the play in 16th seed game!
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@BeddieKU23 Follow the money…
Wouldn’t be shocked to see two of 3 make it out of USC, UCLA and Washington. And somehow St. Bonnies won’t make it because of some stupid Quadrant thing…
Also, in ESPN’s bracket, I would rather see several of the 6 or 7 seeds than the 8/9 seeds at the moment. If this were really how it played out, I’d be kind of pissed.
Also, if KU wins out the Big XII title outright, don’t we deserve to win the MidWest 1 seed over Xavier? Of course I’m biased.
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jayballer73 said:
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
So, what is your definition of a good team? Would you say a team that is in the top third of all Division I is good? How about 70 percentile? Washington is there and currently a bubble team for the Tournament. It might not be a title contender but as teams go, it is not a bad team…didn’t it beat KU after all?
No need to take my comments so personally, they are just comments. I thought you were going to try being less thin skinned.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
jayballer73 said:
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
So, what is your definition of a good team? Would you say a team that is in the top third of all Division I is good? How about 70 percentile? Washington is there and currently a bubble team for the Tournament. It might not be a title contender but as teams go, it is not a bad team…didn’t it beat KU after all?
No need to take my comments so personally, they are just comments. I thought you were going to try being less thin skinned.
and when I comment back I have - - -and I didn’t take it personal. - -not really sure how I can make people understand I’m not. guess it’s my twisted approach boy if some REALLY knew me - they would faint lol.
Ya your right they did beat KU - -and that is a BAD loss -a team that’s what in 5th in a weak conference ya - -BAD BAD loss. - The Pac 12 sucks - -Arizona is really the only legit team they got. - -Arizona State fell back to earth they really ain’t squat and it’s proven it’self out. - - Hell who isn’t a bubble team - -lol --and their bubble is pretty weak.
I’m not taking anything you say personal my friend this is just how I am- not meaning to sound insulting to you - love your thoughts - love the site. - -See someone has to kind of be a rebel I guess keep things stirred up -Everyone should have their comments. - -hope were good. - -wish I knew how to use all the little emoji’s can’t even find them here anymore - whoops their is my computer stupidity showing again lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 Thank you!
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jayballer73 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
jayballer73 said:
well I know one for sure that’s not good. - - Washington is not a good team - you consider Washington a good team ? - if you do you need to grab a websters and look up the definition of good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
So, what is your definition of a good team? Would you say a team that is in the top third of all Division I is good? How about 70 percentile? Washington is there and currently a bubble team for the Tournament. It might not be a title contender but as teams go, it is not a bad team…didn’t it beat KU after all?
No need to take my comments so personally, they are just comments. I thought you were going to try being less thin skinned.
and when I comment back I have - - -and I didn’t take it personal. - -not really sure how I can make people understand I’m not. guess it’s my twisted approach boy if some REALLY knew me - they would faint lol.
Ya your right they did beat KU - -and that is a BAD loss -a team that’s what in 5th in a weak conference ya - -BAD BAD loss. - The Pac 12 sucks - -Arizona is really the only legit team they got. - -Arizona State fell back to earth they really ain’t squat and it’s proven it’self out. - - Hell who isn’t a bubble team - -lol --and their bubble is pretty weak.
I’m not taking anything you say personal my friend this is just how I am- not meaning to sound insulting to you - love your thoughts - love the site. - -See someone has to kind of be a rebel I guess keep things stirred up -Everyone should have their comments. - -hope were good. - -wish I knew how to use all the little emoji’s can’t even find them here anymore - whoops their is my computer stupidity showing again lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think Arizona State had one of their best shooting nights against us. I saw them miss open shot after open shot at Arizona, shots they made against us, and lost. They were just hot for a few games and we had an uninspired outing. All there is to it.
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@HawkChamp YEP pretty plain and simple. - -I’ve seen them multiple times and they got lucky to be ranked as high as they were - -un deserving the only reason they got that high was the process of elimination - -teams above them losing - -they didn’t stay long. Actually the only player I was impressed with was the Remy Martin kid - -decent player - -other then that - -not so much - -BAD loss for KU. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 All I’ll say is that while you’re laughing at the PAC 12, KU went 1-2 against the mid level teams in the Pac 12 including 0-2 in home games. Perhaps the Pac 12 isn’t as weak as you think they are.
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If we win the big 12 and the conference tourney we will have a resume that will be hard to ignore. I can see us being the highest 2 seed if we lose a game between now and selection Sunday. 7 losses is a lot to reward a 1 seed. KU has had as tough of a sustained schedule as any in the country. Teams in the big 10 and ACC have had to play some bad teams and it’s padded records.
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@BeddieKU23 I’d prefer being the top 2 seed honestly…
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 All I’ll say is that while you’re laughing at the PAC 12, KU went 1-2 against tye mid level teams in tge Pac 12 including 0-2 in home games. Perhaps the Pac 12 isn’t as weak as you think they are
HOW ain’t no sweat of my you know what - but bring those teams to the Big 12 see how they fare - -5th in the pac 12 - -9th in the big 12 end of story. - but here again is why this is good you can voice your opinions and I mine. - -just because KU lost to them doesn’t mean they are a strong team - can mean just as easily that KUY played like warm dog doo that game - - which they did - doesn’t make them or their conference a powerhouse
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@wissox Nice thread. This has to be one of my favorite times during the year. I love this stuff.
My opinion about KU is that we will be a 2 seed…IF KU wins or ties for the league and wins a couple games in the big12 tourney.
Now, I realize its a big if. But, we just saw KU pick apart a very tough WVU team at their place, foul discrepancy not withstanding. We also saw Silvio’s “light” go on. We now have 3 bigs to shore up our post now. That’s huge for us going forward and the timing couldn’t be any better.
So, yah IF all that stuff happens, KU should be a 2 seed…possibly even a one seed. Were the field picked today, I personally wouldn’t put KU higher than the last 2 seed. Maybe even a 3 seed.
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@Lulufulu It is fun to discuss. And we really don’t know, except,
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The committee usually treats us very well.
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The committee has really liked the good matchups and they’ll overseed someone else or underseed someone else to make it happen. See Wisconsin last year getting an 8 seed. See KU having to play WSU in 2nd round three years ago.
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The committee always puts Duke or UNC in first two rounds in NC, but rarely both meaning on average KU plays closer to home than Duke or UNC in the first two rounds. Sorry to ruin everyone’s narrative!
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We’ll hear some 12 loss team whining why they had 12 good losses and deserve to dance over a mid major who had only 3 good losses, but zero bad losses.
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Speaking of whining KU fans (even a few bucketites) will whine about the bracket despite the fact almost every year we’re the 1 seed in the midwest bracket meaning we’re playing within a days drive of Lawrence for all of the first 4 rounds every year.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 All I’ll say is that while you’re laughing at the PAC 12, KU went 1-2 against tye mid level teams in tge Pac 12 including 0-2 in home games. Perhaps the Pac 12 isn’t as weak as you think they are
I think our guys made them look good. Those two games were pretty pathetic performances.
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Ya that’s kind of my point and why I said Washington was a bad loss. - It wasn’t so much that they were that good -it was more of a fact that we sucked during these games played like doo.
We made them look better then they are - -and then with them being 5th in a conference like that - that really looks bad. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 The PAC 12 is the number 5 conference in the country, they’re not as bad as you want to believe they are.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 The PAC 12 is the number 5 conference in the country, they’re not as bad as you want to believe they are.
who is the # 1 conference in the Nation? - Big 12 isn’t it? - -I rest my case - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY - they are that bad
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Washington is going to end up with well over 20 wins they aren’t completely terrible. Should KU have beat them? Sure but this KU team has lost to some other average teams as well. There are no juggernauts this year and everyone has bad losses.
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Washington turned out to not be a terrible loss and Nebraska turned out to be a solid road win. TCU in a battle with ISU right now that they need to win. Baylor’s chances took a hit last night, they prob need 3 or 4 more wins including the B12 tournament.
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You did not answer my question. What would you consider a good or a poor team?
Would you say the top third of all Division I teams are good or better, the middle third average and the bottom third poor or worse?
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wissox said:
@BeddieKU23 They’re giving a Gard a pass this year. Lost a ton of experience, and then two season ending injuries. The pressure is mounting however as recruiting misses this year has really begun to mount. He’s especially missed on in state kids like Ellenson who went to Marquette for one year, Stone who went to Maryland, and now losing Tyler Herro. Even losing the kid from KC to KU, normally no shame in that, is stinging a bit too. He can point to his last class (this years freshmen who are all decent players and will grow into very good players I think. Next year with a senior Ethan Happ, and healthy experienced players younger than him, they should expect to dance again, but if not, he’ll really feel the heat.
I can see them giving Gard a pass this year but he has to start recruiting at a higher level. Wisconsin even with its success hasn’t signed Top 100 kids regularly which made Ryan’s success even more impressive. He maximized talent so well and always found program players. Of course they have gotten guys like Dekker and Happ in the past so you can get kids there. The misses in recruiting as you noted are starting to pile up. I worry that Gard isn’t establishing his own identity with Wisconsin as well as one might hope he would already. Of course I don’t follow them as close as you do but even the 10 foot view looks as if he’s trying to do the same as Ryan did without the success.
Next year will be a huge year for the program and Gard. If most of the team returns (which I think will happen) there’s a lot of promise if everyone is healthy. The key to next years team seems to be having an established post rotation alongside Happ. Ford & Reuvers are young and have received valuable playing time this year to build off. Wisconsin has had remarkable success getting little-used big men to come out of no where, Van Vliet & Illikainen do not seem to be candidates to follow that path which has to be a big disappointment to fans and the staff.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Follow the money…
Wouldn’t be shocked to see two of 3 make it out of USC, UCLA and Washington. And somehow St. Bonnies won’t make it because of some stupid Quadrant thing…
Also, in ESPN’s bracket, I would rather see several of the 6 or 7 seeds than the 8/9 seeds at the moment. If this were really how it played out, I’d be kind of pissed.
Also, if KU wins out the Big XII title outright, don’t we deserve to win the MidWest 1 seed over Xavier? Of course I’m biased.
Xavier has a really good chance of getting a #1 seed despite likely to be the 2nd best team from the Big East. It looks likely they will at least tie for the Big East championship with Villanova, Xavier plays Providence at home & @ Depaul left meanwhile Nova has road tests at Creighton, Seton Hall and then ends with Georgetown.
If they win the Conference tourney and say beat Villanova while doing it they are likely a #1 seed. They have no bad losses as far as losing to teams they shouldn’t have. In a season that has seen so many upsets every week Xavier is one of the few that has been consistent. I will note that when they lose, they don’t even lose competitively (avg 16) in their 4 losses. I’ve seen them play a handful of games, they are a good team. I’m not convinced they have a Final 4 type ceiling which you would expect from a #1 seed. Maybe I’m undervaluing them a bit, they seem like a safe team that scores a lot. They are not a defensive juggernaut by any means which I think is the biggest risk with them (Kenpom’s 70th ranked D).
I think at least 2 of the 3 Pac-12 teams are tournament teams. I think Washington has work to do like winning its next four games. If they can’t beat Stanford, Cal, Oregon St & Oregon they don’t belong in the tourney. USC is currently 2nd in the Pac-12 with an extremely weak resume. The 2nd place team in the Pac-12 is making the tourney though. UCLA is in a really tough stretch. End the season with 3 straight road games and none of them are easy. UCLA has to win one of them, beating Utah tonight in a true bubble game for both would go a long way in keeping them in.
I agree as it stands it looks like the committee is valuing the quadrant thing heavy. You might see 8/9 seeds that are better then the 6/7 seeds and it could all be because of resume and scheduling. As always we are going to see teams under-seeded and over-seeded and wonder how they came up with it all.
If KU continues this turnaround and momentum they will be a #1 seed. Winning out would be the easiest way that happens. Winning the Big-12 gives us another ace in the hole. Winning the Conference Tourney would give us a chance at overall #1 depending on how things shake out. If we have 7 losses we’ll need help to stay on the 1 line. Anything more then 7 losses is going to land us a #2 seed I believe. Our strong resume with quadrant wins keeps us in play for everything. I’m pumped to see how the next couple weeks go!
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Syracuse really needed that home win against UNC last night. Jim lives on the bubble every year and whines for days when he’s included or excluded. Cuse isn’t a tournament team IMO.
What does the committee do with Oklahoma St. 4 wins against ranked teams. They will have to keep winning.
Louisville is another ACC team that does not belong in the NCAA tourney. Are they even allowed? I have no idea they have so many in-house and NCAA penalties its been hard to keep up.
Alabama got crushed by Auburn, that would have been a big upset for them. Can’t see them dancing
Clemson is falling apart having lost 3 straight. Virginia Tech looks safely in.
Florida is definitely a team with work to do. 11 losses and more to come. Definitely trending towards the bubble.
K-St & TCU did what they needed to do last night. TCU has a brutal stretch to end conference play. Beating Baylor & K-St would put them safely in.
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I would love to see Xavier win the conference over Villanova. Villanova has the longest streak of tiles after KU with 6 and losing would put them back at square one…and 15 or more years away from breaking the streak…assuming KU does not continue to win titles.
