Billy Momma Drama
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HighEliteMajor said:
Self said “any minute” last night, I think. Decision should come soon. Now, I will puke.
Ya and on top of that NOW if you go and read the article off the LJW Self is now starting to give excuses as to why it’s taking longer for De Sousa to be cleared.
I give up it’s looking more and more like we won’t get either of them for this by the time it is all said and done
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Can’t speak to it’s validity. But a friend today said he saw rumor on a friend’s fb page that Preston is cleared. The friend of my friend is an Alumni. I have seen nothing yet that supports this. So who knows
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@cragarhawk thanks for the scoop!
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The principle that an individual is “presumed” incident until proven guilty is not unique to our legal system, it is part of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states: “Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.”
Having said that, the NCAA is not a court of law, it is an institution which universities voluntarily join and have a saying in the operation. Likewise, student athletes do not have to follow the rules and they do not have to play NCAA sports, they can play under different organizations with different rules. If they choose to play for a NCAA member school they must follow all the rules. It is really that simple.
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TTBOMK, none of the mentorship you named are prohibited by the NCAA; Wayne Simien is a mentor to many players through his Called to Greatness Campus Ministry. The problem happens when mentors start providing impermissible benefits, particularly when the benefits involve a quid pro quo.
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Seems to me the situation must be more complicated than Billy and his Mom(s) either unknowingly or intentionally breaking some NCAA rule. If that was the case, it would have been settled in one day. They aren’t stupid, and KU wouldn’t have wasted time on it. If it turns out that his Mom’s partner bought the car, I can see how it could fall into a gray area of rules interpretation for the NCAA, particularly if Billy and his Mom didn’t think they’d need to include compliance/financial stuff about her partner up front. So that could be the issue (and would make sense with the “personal lives” stuff she tweeted about). Would also make sense why it took so long to establish her relationship with Billy. Kind of hate to speculate, but why not? Everyone else has.
Clearly at this point, if Billy and his mom had been “caught” bamboozling KU or the NCAA he’d be LONG gone, so the fact that it’s dragged on beyond last semester is a positive sign to me.
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Maybe Billy is innocent here, maybe his Mother is right. Maybe not. Maybe naive in not even thinking the car he was driving would ever be in question. It’s a plauisble thought.
I don’t know whether the issue is centered around pre-existing relationships Billy or his family has with someone, if that is the reason KU compliance and the NCAA have taken a deeper look.
Nobody would care where the car comes from if he wasn’t an athlete trying to play basketball. A Student wouldn’t miss 14 going on 15 days of class for this.
The rules may be flawed, they are the rules but it doesn’t mean they are right. Let’s not act like the NCAA hasn’t made some mind-boggling decisions in the past.
Cliff Alexander was ineligible for a loan his mother took without his knowledge?. How was that his fault? If he knew about it, that changes things. Did we ever know whether Cliff knew anything?
The NCAA once suspended Baylor’s Perry Jones just before the start of the Big-12 tournament in 2011 and 5 games the following season because his mother accepted 3 seperate 15-day loans to keep Perry and their family from going homeless. They said Perry was suspended for “accepting impermissible benefits”. What exactly did Perry accept? The person who loaned the Jones money to pay their Mortgage was someone Perry and the family knew since the 6th grade.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/631738-baylor-basketball-breaking-down-perry-jones
I’m not assuming the Preston situation is the same as other cases but what if Billy is innocent as others have been in the past and still paid the price
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If we look at why it’s taken so much time, @mayjay’s suggestion of the difficulty getting paperwork from disinterested and unmotivated third parties is the most reasonable of the benign explanations.
“Innocence” of course is relative – meaning, the NCAA rules determine “innocence” so to speak. That doesn’t mean we like it, or that “innocence” equates with the kid having done absolutely nothing wrong on his end. If Billy was driving a car that his mom gave him and told him was his from her, but she accepted money from someone she shouldn’t have, without Billy’s knowledge, Billy is “innocent” in our eyes, but not to the NCAA. We are all prejudiced (or benefit by) our parents. Parents, as in Cliff’s case (as @BeddieKU23 mentioned), seem to have caused Cliff’s issue. Life’s rough.
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The third party angle would make sense.
“she accepted money from someone she shouldn’t have, without Billy’s knowledge, Billy is “innocent” in our eyes, but not to the NCAA.”
Also a valid statement. With Self’s recent comments it would seem to indicate they are banking on “time served” already. “KU’s de-facto hold-out/in-house-suspension” would be sufficient to cover what they found out about the car.
My second thought, why does the NCAA have rules that would penalize the student athlete if they are innocent in any wrong doing, however the parents/family made a mistake. It begs the question whether the NCAA should be in the game of penalizing an athlete for his parent(s) issue. Isn’t judging whether the student (Billy) in this case did something wrong more important… I’m just having a hard time figuring out where the line is in all this
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@BeddieKU23 Frankly, it would be too easy to transfer lots of goodies to a family and then claim the kid didn’t know. If we or anyone else claims “unfair treatment” now when, say, UNC doesn’t get slammed, imagine the outcry when bluebloods (where the recruits worth paying for tend to end up) figure out how to have their innocent little waifs commit while those behind-their-backs family members suddenly start driving new cars, taking trips to follow their darlings, and moving into nicer homes.
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Sorry I was a bit harsh on Billy and his mother. But I’m sick of these guys coming in here with their families and turning our athletic department (and reputation) into a Jerry Springer show.
These kids and parents should realize they are only damaging themselves. No NBA team hunts out drama as a positive factor when picking players.
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We need to FORMALIZE the training of recruits/players in staying between the lines.
It should be done with forms of media, like short films. And then Q&As afterwards to make sure it soaks in, while we document that our players are in full knowledge.
These are educational items that should be organized and designed through our compliance program.
There is NO REASON why Kansas should go down for mistakes our players make as long as our coaches and administration play fair ball.
Document, document, document.
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Lonzo Ball did go 2nd in the draft with as much drama associated to his name as any player I could think of…
I certainly don’t agree with his mother’s comments making headlines. It’s not a good look.
Ultimately the man in charge of our program must make the call on these situations. Billy could have been someone else’s problem to deal with…
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@Gunman Innocent until proven guilty.
Unless you’re 11-3 with 3 home losses. Then you are stone cold guilty and somebody better do something about it damn quick.
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True… but Ball is an ongoing story. We will see how that plays out in the long run. If it goes bad, I think more NBA front offices will look to stay away from drama.
Some drama is actually needed in sports. We only have to think back to the Magic/Bird era and their controversies. That was “good drama.” Fans loved it!
But Ball’s dad is just an arse. I always try to put the game ahead of the drama… but it is hard to watch Lonzo with approval while his dad may be killing viewership of the game.
Pretty much all pro sports are facing viewership issues. I don’t think “Ball-like” drama is going to rescue them. Eventually, marketing wonks will come out of the woods and point fingers at Ball’s dad, regardless of whether he did so much damage or not. It is about blaming someone else.
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If Ball falls out of the NBA, it will have more to do with his production than his dad’s mouth.
Right now, he’s averaging 10/7/7. That’s not great. I thought his assist numbers would be better, and I thought he would shoot better from 3 (currently under 30%). If this continues, he won’t make it. If he bumps that assist number up to 8.5, and starts shooting more in the 35% range from 3, Lonzo goes from being an iffy player to being a solid player. Not a star, but very solid, particularly because he can rebound and should be able to handle bigger guards in the post.
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I’ve been waiting for their 15 minutes of fame to end but it doesn’t seem like its happening anytime soon. ESPN seems set on covering what they eat for dinner, where they get their dry-cleaning. Heck they were front and center for the younger one’s practice in Lithuiana today!!! Seems as if the fabricated drama Lavar created has fooled everyone, he’s famous, his kids are famous. Drama sells…
Preston’s mom’s tweets, that’s not good drama. Whether she’s right in the matter is irrelevant to the distraction it continues to bring. She called out a fan-base. What if Billy is cleared to play in the home game next week, does he get a roar from the crowd or do people take his mother’s comments to heart. I have a feeling the 16,300 would support him with open arms as we do any Hawk. It does beg the question though
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justanotherfan said:
If Ball falls out of the NBA, it will have more to do with his production than his dad’s mouth.
Sure… but you can’t say his father’s actions have no impact. You can’t say that if there are two equal players, management wouldn’t rather take the one without drama.
RIght now… all pro sports teams are focusing on viewership. Winning games is still the major factor in that. But it isn’t everything. I watch some NBA. Ball’s dad is a big turnoff for me and definitely doesn’t inspire me to follow Lakers ball.
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True. At least, it sells for a while.
I think the general public will become EXTREMELY SICK of most drama this year. Our political dramas have become overwhelming for everyone, and people are suffering from drama fatigue.
If you want to look at drama that can have long lasting positive impact… look at JoJo’s personality! Look at how he is becoming a superstar and a chunk of that is his personality.
I think eventually we will get away from being a society where one can claim, “ALL publicity is GOOD publicity!”
At least… I hope so! lol
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Agree with everything you said.
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This forum is so refreshing! I happened upon a facebook group that is called Kansas University Basketball Recruiting. I thought, oh, that looks interesting, so I liked it. Big mistake, but now I have a purpose there. It’s hilarious. Type something like “Dang this team is soft” and here’s a typical response: “Get lost troll” “GTFO” “You’re not a KU fan” One guy whom I questioned about his post that the NCAA always picks on us, nobody else asked why I’m on there because I’m obviously a Duke or Kentucky fan. When I asked him if he wanted to see my KU degree, he doubted that. I asked him if he was a KU grad. He had no response!
Most of the posts this week have been people contributing nothing more than “I don’t care what happens, I’m a Jayhawk fan for life because I bleed Crimson and Blue”
Of course very little of it has to do with KU recruiting.
Then the thread on Billy’s moms tweet took on a decidedly different tone than here. No objectivity, just a bunch of absolute 100% agreement with what she wrote. Anyone who did question it was called all sorts of names.
One person even called me a Wisconsin fan to which I pled guilty. Even with every privacy setting possible on FB he figured that out!
BTW this could be the year two impressive streaks ends, our conference championship streak and UW’s NCAA tournament streak.
Anyways, this cordial discussion I read through today has been a good reminder of what we have here! I appreciate you guys and gals!
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Facebook is terrible.
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I kind of like to think of myself as the @elpoyo of the facebook group!
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@drgnslayr It’s who can be the loudest bigmouth. It’s just part of our overall cultural decline. It’s chest pounding, screaming, “look at me” garbage that has spread like a cancer since it began back in the 90s. Now we see these idiots pounding their chests and screaming because they make a routine tackle. It’s a joke. And it’s proliferated with the disease that is social media.
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@HighEliteMajor I’d pound my chest if I made a routine tackle.
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@HighEliteMajor I notice it more even at HS and Jr. High levels these days. All that type of thing was strictly verboten when I played. In fact. Any sort of end zone celebration at all after a touchdown would get you unsportsmanlike… I’m not sure why or when it all became okay. I find myself looking for the kids that don’t do it. It’s a rarity.
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cragarhawk said:
@HighEliteMajor I notice it more even at HS and Jr. High levels these days. All that type of thing was strictly verboten when I played. In fact. Any sort of end zone celebration at all after a touchdown would get you unsportsmanlike… I’m not sure why or when it all became okay. I find myself looking for the kids that don’t do it. It’s a rarity.
Sprechen sie Deutsch?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@drgnslayr It’s who can be the loudest bigmouth. It’s just part of our overall cultural decline. It’s chest pounding, screaming, “look at me” garbage that has spread like a cancer since it began back in the 90s. Now we see these idiots pounding their chests and screaming because they make a routine tackle. It’s a joke. And it’s proliferated with the disease that is social media.
This post belongs in the Politics category, right?
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@HawkChamp I like it. It’s one of those big words with a little meaning.
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This current look at me culture in sports can be traced directly to Muhammad Ali. Others that have a big influence would be Ricky Henderson, Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, and Shaq. The difference between these guys and regular athletes is they could back up everything they said they are all hall of famers.
It is beyond ridiculous now and a perfect example would be from the 76ers-Pistons game a couple of nights ago. Andre Drummond actually tried to shush the crowd after he made two FT’s. That’s a big deal for Drummond because he’s in the Shaq range of terrible FT shooting, but the real issue is that at the time, the two FT’s cut the 76ers lead to 30. That’s right, Drummond was trying to shush the crowd when his team was down 30 points.
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@wissox Whatever, Kentucky fan.
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Texas-Hawk-10 You are exactly right. Ali was the first loudmouth, really. But I think there was a gap there. Ali was kind like this unique, special, one of a kind loudmouth. While it is clear the that elements of the American black culture has been the major catalyst for this deterioration in sportsmanship, humility, and civility on the athletic fields and arenas, a significant player was Ric Flair. There was a large gap between Ali and what we saw in the 90s. If you saw the 30 for 30, they quoted the hip hop industry and Snoop Dog as seeing Flair as somewhat of a hero. Of course, that wasn’t real sports. But here are some interesting links on the topics.
https://theundefeated.com/features/ric-flair-and-black-fandom-in-wrestling/
http://www.complex.com/sports/how-legendary-ric-flair-became-hip-hops-favorite-wrestler
A Snoop Dog quote from the first article, with Flair first linking Ali and Flair - “I mean, why did people like Ali?” Flair asks in the documentary. “No one has marketed themselves in boxing like Ali.” Moments later, rapper Snoop Dogg appears on the screen and explains how Flair pulled from and was an inspiration of the early roots of hip-hop and black culture. “As a kid growing up watching Ric Flair, he was very inspirational to myself and a lot of other hip-hop artists because he represented what we wanted to be,” Snoop Dogg said. “We wanted to be Ric Flair; we wanted to be flamboyant and the ‘kiss-stealin, wheelin-and-dealin,’ we wanted to be all of that. He was a part of our culture and our life. That’s why we love him and we cherish him. We’ve always held him high in the black community, because Ric is one of us.”
When I mention “elements of American black culture”, the KU dichotomy is the clearest example – Chris Harris and Aqib Talib. Harris is an amazing guy. Talib is a thug. The latter is the type of garbage that has undeniably been glorified in elements of the black community, led by the hip-hop industry.
@mayjay I am sorry, did you say something?
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@HighEliteMajor No need to. You always prove my points for me.
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The best endzone celebration was Billy White Shoes Johnson.
