Does Gary Parrish have something against KU?
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It shows he is too damn lazy to research the teams and picks one silly criteria to justify his bias…and laziness.
Funny thing is that Ken Pomeroy, whose numbers he is using, has KU at #4 which makes him look like an idiot. If you want a really bad ranking look at this one and check which team is #2…good for a laugh.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 you might be on to something! Seems like it came out of nowhere though.
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@chriz His article gives a coherent explanation. I don’tagree with him, but I understand it.
Considering how dismayed some people here felt about our team after the Washington game, I am shocked people are shocked. I am interested in something else–Parrish has 5 B12 teams above us.
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I agree that the article gives an explanation but I would not call it coherent. He uses Pomeroy’s rankings for his own ranking using the upset as the criterion even when upsets are just that, upsets and not really representative of the true quality of teams; in fact and after the upset loss by KU, Pomeroy has it still ranked #4 which makes Goodman’s ranking look silly.
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@chriz He is a goofball.
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Yeah not buying the sub 75 KenPom reasoning. Where did he come up with that? No national championship winner has ever lost to a sub 75 KenPom team?
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What an idiot, now I’ll agree right now we haven’t played like a top 5 team let alone a top 10 team this year. We have stomped a lot of srcubs thus far, and I’d say we are a sweet 16 team right now as does Bilas with ESPN. But that all could change very quickly once Sam is able to play and hopefully Billy. The ceiling of this team is consideraby higher IMO with those two guys able to go. We’ve had guys playing the whole game with no choice at this point even when we are up big and a 6’4 walk-on playing at the 5 when in foul trouble.
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Generally national champs don’t lose to bad teams. It suggests the team is ripe for losing in the round of 32 come March.
Does anyone here legitimately believe Washington will play past the round of 32, if they even make the tournament? Washington isn’t very good, so that loss does make you question KU’s floor. That matters when you have to string together six consecutive wins against varied and increasingly more difficult competition.
Of course, this is somewhat moot because the lineup KU fields in March could be significantly different in a good way.
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mayjay said:
@chriz His article gives a coherent explanation. I don’tagree with him, but I understand it.
Considering how dismayed some people here felt about our team after the Washington game, I am shocked people are shocked. I am interested in something else–Parrish has 5 B12 teams above us.
I understand what your saying about people being dismayed after the game I mean I included was one that just didn’t see this coming - not like the way it panned out anyways , just a total collapse in every phase of the game.
Having said that there is no way in hell that a team will - -should - -or could drop from 2nd to 24th no mater where it is, who they play, or how bad a team plays.
It took 3 losses for Arizona to drop from 2nd to out of the rankings. -2nd to 24th for `1 loss there is no way in hell that will happen. - Sounds like this guy has no business even being able to cast a vote - that’s IF he does. - -Obviously he has no actual knowledge of the game of College Basketball.
This is just another example of that a team has to come prepared for every game - -night in - - night out. - -Just because a wire service/Coaches show they think you are the 2nd best team in the nation doesn’t give any team KU included a automatic pass for the game - -an automatic win - -these other teams are not just going to lay down and just say OK tell us what the score should be - -you win.
You already know this and I’m sure everyone here already knows this but When tams get the chance to play one of the premier Blue bloods of College /Basketball they are going to be jacked up. and as we know when your jersey has the name Kansas written across it - that really fires them up like I have said before for a lot of these teams playing KU IS their NCAA National Championship game.
This game was just a scenario where all these factors played a part. - -It was a matter of KU not coming ready to play, not executing in any single phase of the game - and the other Washington wanting to make a statement and showing that they can play with the elite teams. - But for a guy to drop a team from 2nd to 24th is just fricken idiocy - -you know it - -I know it - -anyone that IS anyone knows it.
What I’m seeing come Monday when the rankings come out I’m looking at possibly 6-7 at the lowest. now to a lot depend on the outcome of Sundays game - we play like crap AGAIN at Allen on Sunday and lose to Arizona State then ya we will drop a lot further probably middle teens lower teens even possibly but for this - -NO way. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Click bait. Not going to fall for it.
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It’s Parrish. Gary Freaking Parrish. He writes his Top 25 and 1 with a crayon. He combs his hair with a fork. He braids his nostril hair. He can’t talk without slobbering. You wouldn’t ask him his advice on any other issue, so I wouldn’t take his advice on college basketball, either. He’s trying to generate clicks.
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@justanotherfan north carolina, the national champs last year, lost to Georgia tech, a team that did not make the tournament. Last year, we lost to TCU yet came out hot in the tournament.
Unless we go on a losing streak, this game has absolutely zero impact on tourney results.
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He blocked me on twitter a while back…he is a pansy
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@HawkChamp I don’t know all the criteria these guys put into their rankings. Pre season, Washington was predicted to finish 10th in the Pac 12. For what it is worth, Arizona State was ranked 6th, Stanford 5th. Going by that, those two games should be tougher than Washington. Thankfully, one of them is at home. Hopefully this loss was a huge wakeup call for us. Conference is only five games away. We need to be ready for that gauntlet. We need our roster to be replenished before then. Come on Sam, Billy, and Silvio.
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Well Parrish may have I guess SOME reason for what he did, BUT Joe Lundardi explains why he kept Ku as a # 1 seed, saying all it did was drop KU from being the overall # 2 seed to # 4
What he says makes sense to me, stating that almost all the other teams behind KU also lost games:
Norte Dame? - nope can’t move then above KU - -they lost on their home floor to Ball State where they were given a 93% chance of Winning
Florida ? - - Hell no lost twice on their home floor with one of those being to Loyola of Chicago and they only averaged like 62.5 in these games.
Texas A&M lost - plus others he named I forgot to write them all down.
Parish writes he punishes other teams for bad losses - -great so be it. - But umm 24th for one loss?- -he been hitting the pipe a little to hard. You put five other Big 12 teams ABOVE KU - -MAN this in it’self ought to serve as all the motivation they need - -that’s if they needed any. - -Really makes me anxious for these games/teams he placed above us in our league.
Maybe we ought to invite old Larry down to the phog and watch one of our games in person - -I’m sure he will be treated very warmly. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Big-Clyde52 Once again I’ve been reading that we should be hearing something on Billy within the next week hopefully - -same for De-Sousa. - -If it turns out favorably what a HUGE boost it will mean to have Preston - - De-Sousa & Cunliffe and then plus extra spot back up with Sosinski - -what a difference that would make.
Just getting so tired of hearing nothing, let’s get this done damn. I’m a man of little patience lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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There is some validity in what he’s saying. There are some outliers. Out of curiousity, I went back thru to 2011 to see the worst losses. Year - winner (worst loss team and rank)…as a baseline KU just lost to 114 Washington…still WAY TOO early for final place but…
2017 - UNC - (Ga Tech #77)
2016 - Villanova - (Seton Hall #29)
2015 - Duke - (Miami #41)
2014 - Connecticut - (Houston #132)
2013 - Louisville - (notre Dame #36)
2012 - UK - (vanderbilt #16)
2011 - Connecticut (St. Johns #41)
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I will say…It’s still way early in the season and conference season will dramatically effect rankings.
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You are comparing apples and oranges.
His ranking is not an indicator on whether KU will win the NCAA but how it ranks compared to other teams. I cannot think of a single time when a top 2 or even a top 5 …or 10 team lost one game to an unranked team and dropped 22 places.
He uses Pomeroy’s data for his ranking but Pomeroy has KU as #4…wait, what? The numbers he is using have KU as #4 but he feels it should be #24…KenPom is probably shaking his head and saying…please, don’t use my data like this, better yet, don’t use it at all. BTW, Sagarin and Massey have KU as #7 and every other ranking I have seen has KU between #4 and #7. Yes, a drop is understandable, warranted an defensible by all the way from #2 to #24? No way.
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Looking at the information @bmensch1 posted, the only eventual national champion with a comparable loss to KU’s is UConn, and that UConn team was not a particularly strong eventual champ - seeded as a 7 seed. They were one of the lowest seeded teams to ever win the title - only Villanova in 1985 as an 8 seed was lower. Only 7 teams seeded lower than 6 have ever even made the NCAA final - including Danny and the Miracles in 1988.
That means that losses to a team that bad, particularly non-conference losses, don’t happen to eventual champs. If you look at that list, every single one of those “bad” losses was in conference. Typically, those losses are on the road.
This one sticks out because it was non-con, meaning this wasn’t Washington’s second crack at KU for the year, and it wasn’t in Seattle.
I’m not saying the sky is falling, but this exposes a vulnerability that has to be addressed. Maybe UW is better than we all think, and this loss won’t look as bad in two months. But if the Huskies are languishing in last place in the Pac 12 come Mid-February, and we still have no Billy Preston and aren’t getting much from Cunliffe, I will be reviewing this game some more.
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@jayballer54 Arizona lost three games during turkey week in 3 days. Unless they’re updating rankings daily, they’re not, it’s pretty logical that they went from 2nd to unranked without stops at say 8th, 16th, before being unranked.
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@justanotherfan And that UCONN team beat an 8 seed Kentucky in the final. They were the team that knocked off Wichita and also broke my heart with a near buzzer beater against the Badgers in the final 4.
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wissox said:
@jayballer54 Arizona lost three games during turkey week in 3 days. Unless they’re updating rankings daily, they’re not, it’s pretty logical that they went from 2nd to unranked without stops at say 8th, 16th, before being unranked.
YA THREE losses in a week not one - pretty easy to see that they were going to fall out. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@justanotherfan If Washington makes the round of 32, having your worst loss of the season coming to a team that won a tournament game is far from a bad loss. Losing to Omaha or Stanford would be bad losses. Losing to Washington at this point is not a bad loss at this point. Disappointing for sure, but not yet a bad loss.
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I really don’t think Washington will be our worst loss of the season.
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@HighEliteMajor Is that because you think UW is not that bad? Or you think there is some rough sailing going forward?
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@HighEliteMajor Probably not. I think the intensity of worsity (new word for me!) is directly proportional to level of importance, not the level of dashed expectations or the margin by which we are favored.
Similarly, a great victory is also determined by its level of achievitude (another one!), not by how many excessive points we scored.
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This team kind of barely deserves to be in the top 25 right now. Paper tiger that will lose again Sunday.
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@BShark In AFH?
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I’m grumpy don’t mind me.
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ASU is very good though and Vick has an ailment.
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I don’t think Washington makes the tournament. I think thet finish in the bottom quarter of the Pac12. I may be wrong about that, but nothing aside from their win against KU suggests they are very good.
As I said in my later comment, if it turns out they are good, this is nothing to worry about, but if they end up being a poor team, I will probably revisit this loss in February
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BShark said:
This team kind of barely deserves to be in the top 25 right now. Paper tiger that will lose again Sunday.
Oh mercy , someone really has their Crimson & Blue dauber down, Chin up - I don’t think that’s gonna happen. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’m glad we have a biased anti-KU in the media. It’s our one shot at developing a chip, and it’s the chip we always lack in March.
What I don’t like is being over-hyped, over-ranked… only to fall flat on our faces. And afterwards… every time… we read and hear, “see how over-rated KU was again!” I’m SICK of that snit!
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@Hawk8086 I’ve mentioned earlier that I think this team, as composed, is in for a bit of a roller coaster ride. We lost our two steadiest players (JJ and Frank), one of which was the national POY. We probably aren’t better in any phase of the game, except perhaps post scoring, and we’re thin there bodies-wise. That said, I see nothing wrong with a roller coaster ride. Teams like this KU team can get on streaks. That streak might be nice to start in the second round of the NCAAs. It’s also why I think our conference streak is really at risk this season. We’re still the favorite, and I’d bet KU over the field, as would any sane person, but I would not be shocked if we stumble.
@mayjay So you’re saying the UW loss meant nothing. I tend to agree. Zero. In fact, while I have not always agreed with @jaybate-1-0 claim that Self “amps” the team or purposefully does not “amp”, I could certainly see the UW game as the great opportunity to shake or wake up the team a bit.
@BShark This is all part of the journey. Our team is being coached in a way to maximize its talent. That’s all we can hope for from that end. We have 7 players, ridiculously thin in the post, etc. Certain match-ups, and certain nights, we’ll be up to our neck in sludge from start t to finish. See UW. This could be a bumpy ride overall.
But with all of that, we are still a team that can realistically run 6 games in a row and win the title. Same odds as prior years. No different. We can beat anyone. The breadth of teams we could lose to might just be a bit wider.
@drgnslayr How about limping in as a 3 seed, and shocking the world?
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I don’t agree. Other than the Arizonas who else is a top team on the PAC 12? Washington will finish in the top third of the PAC 12.
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More importantly, how many spots does Parrish drops Duke after Boston College beats them…and the refs.
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@JayHawkFanToo Did you see the non-calls on Bagley? He shoved a guy out of the way to get a rebound, and then did the same thing going for the offensive board the next time down. He knocked down a BC player each time, and the refs called nothing either time.
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I mentioned above that the Duke players were all over the backs of the BC players and nary a call; they would just look at the refs and shake their heads. Pathetic.
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@chriz Gary Parrish can suck it. I told him on twitter, if I was as wrong as he is about my job, I would be fired for it.
I bet he wont even drop Duke at all.
F**K that guy
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JayHawkFanToo said:
More importantly, how many spots does Parrish drops Duke after Boston College beats them…and the refs.
About 3 spots the game being at BC - I’m sure the ESPN/media darlings will drop just a tad. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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He has something against our time zone!!!
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This is what I call truthiness
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Today, KU might be the 10-15th best team in the country. Just honestly. We are a 5 man team, and our 6th and 7th guys coming off the bench really should be the 8th and 9th. Once we start playing real teams and Doke and Mitch get in foul trouble, we have to go to a 6’4 walk-on? Yea that just isn’t going to cut it because none of our 4 guards rebounds well enough to make up for that deficiency.
With that being said, an addition of a potential 1st round pick in Billy Preston, and Sam Cunliffe, who I have high hopes for, this team should be a top 5 team come March. Our depth really is an issue at the moment, that could set us up to get beat by literally anyone in the B12. Our 6th and 7th players just aren’t good enough. I like Garrett and Mitch. I think they will be great program guys in the future. But this isn’t the position I want either of them to be in.
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You mean UK and Syracuse are not real teams?
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@Kcmatt7 Man I am just so ready for the Billy thing to be over. - -I hear and hear that maybe within the week. Let’s just hope when it is all over - -it’s positive for us.
We get Billy back & Get Sam in - -at LEAST gives us a lil more depth - -but you know and I know it will be more then just Depth - we going to get some. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@kcmatt What worries you about Garrett? Do you think he’s better so far than Newman?
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@JayHawkFanToo Syracuse could finish bottom 3 in the ACC this season. They suck. They have one good player in the entire team.
And playing the youngest team in CBB in November isn’t really an impressive win.
So no I would not call any of our wins so far impressive. And our one loss I would call embarrassing.
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@HighEliteMajor Garrett has no confidence. He isn’t a threat offensively and so when he is on the floor we are playing a man down. So for 21 minutes if the game we are playing 4 on 5 offensively.
Malik is reminding me of Tyshawns senior season. Everyone is crushing him now, but he will figure it out and have a great conference season. I love @justanotherfan’s reverence to a Jazz musician being off beat if you haven’t read that yet. Once he finally gets back in the same page, he will be a different player.
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@Kcmatt7 I am very clearly in the camp of believing that our Newman sample size is too small. So I don’t think any decision should be knee jerk.
That said, I think Garrett is a better player. I don’t think anyone doubts that Garrett is the far superior defender. Correct? So in one-half of what occurs in the game (defense), Garrett is better. And appreciably better.
To the other half. Garrett, right now, is not a real threat offensively. I do think development on the court will help with that. Confidence. Comfort. I also think that in Garrett’s situation, it is easy for him to defer. But advantage Newman.
However, guess who is the best rebounder on the team? Marcus Garrett. He nearly doubles up Newman on a per minute played basis. Newman and Garrett have the same assist per minute ratio. But Garrett has double the rate of steals per minute (3.2 vs. 1.6 per 40 minutes), and his ratio of steals, per 100 possessions - 4.4 to 2.1, is even better. In fact, again, Garrett is best on the team at his rate of stealing the ball. We have also seen his ability to disrupt.
So in Garrett you have a high quality defender, and the guy that leads the team in rebounding and steals per minutes. This is the kind of player that makes a team better.
Again, I’m good with patience on Newman. But even if Newman scores better than he does now, I still think Garrett is the better overall player, and is more likely to make the team better. As of now, the stats seem to prove that to be the case.
