KU's Next BBall coach - a game!
-
Ask Misery about their legacy pick, Kim English. How’d that work out?
-
@KUSTEVE right, but its not what they have done right now, its what they would have done just prior to Self leaving which could be more than 10 years from now. So if Self retires in 10 years (just using for purposes of discussion) then the most likely candidates will be the ones who have lots of success in 8-9 years from now. There is still plenty of time for Danny to build a resume worthy of being KU’s head coach.
-
@RockkChalkk I used to think Danny was being groomed to replace Bill. However, Bill doesn’t appear to be leaving anytime soon and Danny is the same age as Bill. I’d love to have Manning back as the bigs coach, but if KU needed a new coach today I’d like:
Brad Stevens Assisted by Fred Hoiberg
Head football coach hire Nick Saban
More realistically Dooley should be given a look esp. if Janokovich wants to come back with him.
Steve Wojciechowski Is a fairly hot name right now (Marquette) He’s pretty young and a good recruiter. He’s gotten one 5 star to Marquette and many 4 stars in his short time there. 15 years as Coach K’s assistant should have the recruiting channels open.
-
Matt Lottich would be my guess and hope.
-
As a legacy the next coach will be…
-
@dylans think you broke a few rules!
-
@dylans don’t be THAT guy
-
@Crimsonorblue22 oops. No deleting though. We’ll just agree that I’m sofa king disrespectful.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 ha well in this case I didn’t say anything because I figured we’d just not give him any points back if his post got more than 3 thumbs up.
-
Bill Self started at Oral Roberts not Tulsa where in his first 2 years he had losing records and in his 4th and final year he took ORU to the NIT. Haase took UAB from being a bottom feeder in conference USA to winning the conference title in 4 years.
At Stanford, he inherited a team that in 8 years under Jhonny Dawkins finished only 2 years with a conference winning record. In 8 years, they had 1 CBI, 3 NIT and only 1 NCAA appearances, basically a program in shambles. If Hanse can do at Stanford what he did at UAB then he would be a worthy candidate.
-
@approxinfinity You’re going to be waiting a long time to find out my first post was correct…
-
@JayHawkFanToo I do think that if Bill makes it another 10 years it won’t be Haase. If it is 5 years, Haase is definitely in the running.
-
I’m guessing Bill will be here another 8-10 years if we can keep him from the Spurs. Also, I think it will be someone with KU ties. I’m going to throw out Paul Pierce. I think he retires and will get into coaching. He’s only 39 so if it is 10 years done the road he would get experience whether that be in the MBA or at the college level.
-
A few thoughts on potential picks…
Collison - I think he would make a great coach. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever to play at KU. He has been mentoring players for the Thunder but has no coaching experience.
Hinrich - Very smart player and one of the most beloved players for the Chicago Bulls and of course KU. A natural leader and aptly nicknamed Captain Kirk. No HC experience.
Mark Turgeon - Perhaps the most experienced current coach that played at KU. Have we given up on him or just accept he has found a home at Maryland and it will stay there until he retires?
Danny Manning - .Mildly successful as HC but being basically the same age as Coach Self it eliminates him from contention at KU where we like our coaches to stick around for a long time.
Jacque Vaughn - Dark horse groomed by Popovich. His HC experience was not that successful at Orlando but then, none of the last 4 coaches there has been successful; just a bad franchise that at one time was very good. Currently he is an assistant Coach for the Brooklyn Nets.
-
@JayHawkFanToo You’re trying to equate Jerrod Haase with Bill Self? That is some real wishful thinking, imho.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Ummm…is there any coach that isn’t a legacy you would consider? I mean, if the reason you’re hiring someone is they attended KU, isn’t that following Meth U, and their hiring of English? I personally hope we never hire a legacy. Larry Brown never attended KU, nor Roy, or Bill. Why is it now so important to have a KU grad as coach?
-
approxinfinity said:
@Lulufulu ok! I agree, has to be a fine fine coach. My guess is Fred Hoiberg. I think he’s got his eyes on the job and got in thick with Bill when leaving Iowa St.
Wow. Freddy? You think he would leave the NBA for KU?
@KUSTEVE mentioned Brad Stevens. Also think he would leave the NBA for KU?
If so, you guys, I’ll jump on that bandwagon. Those guys can really coach.
I would like to have someone with KU ties. I said earlier a KU alum would be nice but I don’t think its a disqualifier if they aren’t one.
-
Haase was an assistant coach at UNC for 8 years and for 3 of those he was the JV coach…like Roy Williams was. He is following a path similar to that of Coach Self, gradually moving up and building his coaching resume. Am I comparing him to Coach Self? No. Only a handful of individuals have been that successful; however, if Haase continues to perform well he will have a very successful career. When Larry Brown was hired after the Ted Owens tenure, KU was not an elite program and even after winning the title in '88, it was still not consider a top 5 or even top 10 program. It was Roy Williams that really brought the program to elite status and Bill Self that has kept it there.
Also, I am not fixated on having a former KU player be the next coach but it is not unusual for programs to hire individuals with previous ties. At this time, KU would hire a top 5 coach with more experience and gravitas as fitting for an elite program regardless of previous affiliation but in 5-10 years, Haase might be there.
I have posted before that my first choice would be Brad Stevens, who I consider the best if the younger coaches, but I just don’t believe he would come back to college from the NBA Celtics.
-
Hoiberg is in somewhat of a hot seat with the Bulls and his return to college basketball is not out of the question. If he does, my guess is that it would be to ISU where he can build a dynasty of his own. Stevens, on the other hand, has a very secure position with the Celtics and I don’t believe he comes back to coach college. Just my opinion.
-
Billy Donovan.
-
Only 3 years younger than Coach Self…
-
@Lulufulu KU is a better job than the Celtics.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Reasoned response. Perhaps you can keep that handy the next time the entire board gets legacy fever…lol.
-
RockkChalkk said:
Danny Manning
Absolutely DMan. He is definitely the chosen one with his resume. Turgeon and Boyle aren’t making KU splashes in Maryland and Colorado. Turgeon was going gang busters. They are the only ones that have D1 level experience. Lastly, don’t count JDooley out either. ;l
The only former player that has a real chance would be DMan. I think Dooley may be close behind. Manning’s record is fairly impressive. But he has some more work
-
I’m pretty impressed with Mark Few as a non-KU linked coach.
-
Agreed on Few but Manning is about the same age as Coach Self so it is likely they both would retire around the same time. I would call Manning’s carrier to date as mildly successful at best. Few does have the resume but he is also the same age as Coach Self so it is unlikely he follows him unless Coach Self retires in the near future.
-
It makes you wonder what Few could do with a blue blood program like KU. If he can get the talent he has at Gonzaga, couple it with the KU brand and might put a scary team together.
-
I’m not a Few fan. This was by far his most successful season and most talented team ever and I would be shocked if he is able to repeat it.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Dean Smith, Eddie Sutton, Steve Fisher are/were pretty old. Eddie retired due to some health issues or he would still be coaching. Jim Boeheim is no spring chicken, even though he coached his last year at Cuse. Charlie Spoonhour coached St Louis at a fairly older age. Even Coach K is sticking in the mix at over 70? Tubby Smith is getting up in years too.
These are all great senior coaches that are prolly AARP toting bball coaches, but it’s not stopping them from rocking the Xs and Os. Hell, Bill Self may be sportin’ the AARP card too. He’s prolly milkin’ that card and gettin’ Cindy all kinds of senior discounts.
-
@approxinfinity I was waiting for the Zags to Zig. But they never Zigged or Zagged. They didn’t have the talent of many other teams either.
-
Self received his masters from KU so technically, he is an alum which would make him a legacy hire.
@KUSTEVE Legacy hires are not necessarily a bad thing. Since you bring up Missouri basketball and keep using them as the poster child of failed legacy hires, Norm Stewart played for Missouri and he was a prettt good coach.
Jim Boeheim and Roy Williams are also legacy hires, those two are pretty good coaches, wouldn’t you agree?
Just like hiring any other coach, a legacy coach isn’t guaranteed to be successful or a failure because of their ties to a school, but it does help them know the culture of the program and help with donors and marketing the program to recruits.
-
I still think Haase is currently in tge best path to be Self’s successor.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 Because the sole reason any coach should be hired is can they coach, not where they graduated from. We’re way beyond that stage. I used the English example because that was clearly a case where legacy appears to be the only reason he was hired. Roy could coach no matter where he went to school at; same with Bill. And they weren’t hired at their present positions because they were alumni. Yet, when anyone discusses Bill leaving, the only criteria seems to be whether they played here. You can keep correcting me on this issue, and I will continue to rail away about it. If/when we lose Bill, I want the best to replace him, period. No asterisks, no " we’re saving this job for Danny "…none of that. If Danny is the best coach in America when Bill moves on, then I’m all for him. If he’s not, then I don’t want him as coach. It’s not that I don’t love Danny…I do. But this program is beyond Danny or Jerrod at this point by a long margin …this program commands the very elite- the very best. To settle for anything less would simply be a travesty.
-
I think you are taking the legacy concept too literally. I don’t believe I or any other poster has indicated that the position should be reserved for an alumn; however, being one should not necessarily disqualify him either and if two candidates are very similar then the legacy aspect can be used as a tie breaker.
The Missouri example is not a good one because when Kim Anderson was hired he was indeed considered an up and coming coach and no “name” coach would touch the MU program and a clean cut coach was needed to remove the stench left by Frank Haith and in a way, he did accomplish that. I don’t believe being an alumn was the primary reason for MU to hire him but more of a strong reason why Anderson agreed to apply for and take the job. Had daddy Porter not have been from Columbia and with ties to MU, Martin does not take the job that included an Assistant Coach and the #1 player and potentially other highly ranked players. In 3 years Martin will be gone and MU goes back to being a bottom feeder in the SEC.
If Coach Self decides to retire tomorrow, no question that Few would be a candidate; in 5-10 years? Who knows. Just curious, who would you consider to replace Coach Self, now? in 5-10 years?
-
@JayHawkFanToo I think I’m taking the legacy issue just right, tyvm. My choice right now would be Brad Stevens.
-
@KUSTEVE North Carolina wanted Roy Williams specifically because of his ties to North Carolina. Bill Self was KU’s top choice to replace Roy Williams because of his previous ties to KU.
Yes, they were successful elsewhere, but those previous ties to UNC and KU are the primary reason Roy is at UNC and Self is at KU today.
Sounds like they were legacy hires to me.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m glad you brought Roy’s legacy hiring because it jogs my memory: do you remember who Roy replaced at UNC? That’s right…the legacy hire a.k.a. Matt Doherty. Oh my goodness, what a great hire that was. I think you are begging the question a bit with the “Self was a KU guy” before he was actually a KU guy. He served as an assistant for 1 year- I think he was a Larry Brown guy before he was a KU guy, because he spent the next 7 years coaching at his alma mater. A connection to KU? Absolutely. A KU legacy hire? No way. I’ll give you an A for effort, though …lol.
-
@KUSTEVE I think that KU fans are obsessed with Legacy hires because of Roy… “If we hire one of our own they will never leave!”
I personally think Haase will be too old though by the time Self retires. We hired Self at the ripe age of 41 and he finished his first season at age 42. Haase is already 43. Serious candidates will be guys that are currently in their mid 30’s most likely. Because KU doesn’t hire coaches that last just 10 years. We try to hire guys for 15-20+ years. This is supposed to be a coaches last stop.
By that logic, Aaron Miles would be the most likely Legacy hire. I think they are setting up FGCU to be Miles first HC Job. Dooley is going to get a better job one of these years and leave the program to Miles. And at that point, it is up to Aaron to become a top tier head coach.
Personally, I like Matt Lottich from Valpo as a guy to keep an eye on. He learned under the Drews (gross , I know) but did tie for 1st in the conference in his first season. He is also from Chicago, which is our best Pipeline for players. And, being in Indiana he knows how to recruit the Midwest. He played at Stanford, so I’m assuming he is no dummy. And, it sounds weird, but he has the look of a guy that can recruit. He’s a handsome fella… But anyways, just a guy to keep tabs on. The last two Drew’s to coach at Valpo have done pretty well…
-
I don’t think I know where to start on this one.
First… I will be blown away in shock and sadness if we lose Bill within less than 10 years.
Imagine what Bill is yet to accomplish at Kansas but is aligning the stars to happen between now and his departure? I am hopeful we can score at least 2 National Championships between now and then. But I also put equal desire to keep our conference streak alive.
I do believe people are starting to realize what a big deal that conference streak is. It has given us a definite spot in the top 4 elite teams, without question.
Why would Bill leave a situation where he is just now actually starting to reap the benefits? His HOFr status will just start to kick in now, giving him one more of the pieces he needed all along.
If Bill can win a couple of NCs and explode Wooden’s conference streak by like a decade… and keep our NCAA berth streak alive… and his overall winning dominance… who will be seen as a better coach in college basketball? Coach K and Roy are in their sunset years. And when it is all said and done, isn’t it possible Bill could be viewed as the all-time greatest coach in college basketball? I realize that sounds like pie in the sky… but put it all together and if the pieces fall in place. His dominance will be well-recognized and he will have plenty to show even more than the greats that are up there now.
That is what Bill has on the line at Kansas. And for him to leave… what on God’s earth could he gain by leaving? Just to become another “Larry Brown?” Nothing against the great Larry Brown, but the real achievements happen at one school. Wooden/UCLA, K/Duke, Roy/UNC, Knight/Indiana… No one adds much value into Roy’s work at KU, or Knight’s work at TT.
-
@KUSTEVE When you claim a position on an issue and only mention the failures to justify your stance, I will call you out every single time because of the flawed nature of the argument.
No program is above a legacy hire.
-
The truth of it is that KU’s next coach may not be coaching at this moment. Bill Self turns 55 in December, so he could reasonably coach 10 or even 15 more years. Let’s split the difference and call it 12 more years with Self.
Bill Self, as @Kcmatt7 points out, was 41 when he was hired at KU. Roy Williams was 38 when he took the KU job. Larry Brown was 43 when he took the KU job. Ted Owens was just 36.
That’s KU’s last four coaches and none were over the age of 43 when they took the job. If Bill Self coaches at KU for another dozen or so years, that means KU’s next coach is likely in his early 30’s or even mid to late 20’s. If that’s the case, chances are we don’t actually know who will be KU’s next coach because they probably aren’t even a coach yet.
Aaron Miles will be 46 in 12 years. Haase will be in his 50s. Same with Vaughn and Hoiberg. Donovan, Few and others will be in their 60s by then. Simply put, unless Self retires sooner than most anyone expects, every single person mentioned so far on this board is already too old to be the next KU coach. We would be better off betting on someone like Russell Robinson (turned 31 in January) or someone younger than that like Niko Roberts (Norm’s son), Travis Releford, or Kevin Young.
-
Lets just go double legacy and hire Tyler Self as the next coach in 20 yrs when Bill retires with his 10th NC.
-
It has to be a UNC assistant without head coaching experience, willing to split the AirJordan/Nike conveyor 50/50 by recruiting west of the Mississippi, and he has to institute easy classes. He also has to promise to stay 15 years, then take the UNC job.
That’s not too much to ask, is it?
Otherwise I don’t care.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 Call me out? After I called you out over you twisting around Bill’s history? That was your ego talking. You haven’t convinced me or persuaded me of anything, and I will continue to “call you out” when you make dubious claims. For some reason you seem to think it is a real bad idea to be cautious who we turn the reins of the best college bb program in America. I happen to want the very best coach for our team, regardless of whether they have former connections to the program or not. If you want to “call me out” over that, by all means, knock yourself out.
-
Hey… you never know!
At least Tyler can go directly towards a coaching career now and not mess with trying to still play the game himself.
-
Tyler is in grad school and I wonder if he becomes a grad. assistant until he finishes his degree and then moves on. Sounds like the logical path.
-
Predicting the next KU head coach is tougher than trying to predict when enough regime change will be enough.
-
I’d say BIFM is the man.
-
@Hawk69 he’d be great to have on staff!
-
I think Jacque Vaughn will get a long look and might be the pick.
I hope we don’t find out for a long time.
