This is getting tiring.
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Every year there’s been hope with Self and the Jayhawks. After losses like these, I’m always looking forward to the next year, recruiting classes, imagining the starting lineups and how they might be better that the current year’s.
But this year, I’m out of hope.
I know, I’m spoiled. We were in the Final Four five years ago. Oregon hasn’t been since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Good for them.
But bad for us. Again.
No shame in losing to Kentucky in '12. But yeah, I think KU has gone from being mildly disappointing in the tournament to flat out disappointing. Maybe we’re over-seeded? I’m starting to think we often are. The Big XII is obviously weak year after year come tourney time, so there’s that. Not sure why they do so well before conference play starts.
Anyway, why should I think next year will be any different? Is this just who we are, the low end of the blue bloods?
Throw away the streaks. I want national titles. And I’m not confident that we’ll get close any time soon. At least to the standard that I think a program like Kansas should be held to.
Maybe I should manage my expectations?
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@chriz you could switch teams.
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@chriz yes you should. We made the elite 8 with 7 rotation players and our single rim protector hurt. We made the elite 8 with guys like Frank, DG and LL starting. Guys nobody could have imagined the type of careers they ended up having.
Take as much time to grieve as you need. We all hate this. It always stings and we want to point fingers. But to win 6 straight games with a short bench against good opponents is hard to do.
Finally, next years team will be every bit as good as this team. There will be a lot of new faces, but there is a potential for next seasons team to have 6 draft picks. 6. That is some serious talent. And that is something to be excited about!
Hold your head high. We support a rock solid program and something that we should be proud of. We are the gold standard year in and year out.
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@chriz did you hear the announcer say when the last time Oregon made a final four? Like 70 years ago. It could be much much worse. The sky isn’t falling. The program is going to continue all of its streaks. And yea a championship would be nice. But if that’s all you watch basketball for and the only thing you consider to be greatness then why do we even play the games? I think you’re missing out on the fun part of college sports. The rivalries, tradition and love for our players and school. Just because 3 or 4 other schools can make fun of us for not winning as many championships doesn’t mean 150 other schools aren’t envious of us.
Sorry to say so much. I just hate when our fans don’t appreciate what we have accomplished. We can sometimes act like spoiled little kids and need to learn how to appreciate the small things.
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@Kcmatt7 By 6 draft picks, if you mean we’ll lose the entire starting team after one year, I’m not finding that exciting. I like the BIFM’s, DG’s, LV’s. Multi-year players. Throw in a JJ, ok, maybe 2, but I want to get to know the kids and watch them develop. Who’d thunk 4 years ago that BIFM would get the recognition he’s gotten this year? A kid who was ranked 131 in his class. I know next year I’ll be excited again and have fun again and maybe get disappointed again. But dang, it sure beats being a purple kitty or those losers over in the middle of Mizzery. And I’ll still trust in HCBS and staff.
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Unfortunately, Bill has a reputation of choking in the tourney, and that is a reputation he has earned.
I agree with you - I could care less about some rather meaningless conference title win streak. Which do you all get more excited about - winning the conference or the thrill and jubilation of our players and fans after a big elite eight win? I know what I prefer.
The thing is, Bill gets tight from the pressure and his players follow suit. All there is to it. The rim gets smaller when the pressure grows.
There is no evidence next year, the year after, or any coming season will see KU in the final four. You would think Bill would have a better idea of 1. how to prepare his team for the opponent and 2. how to mentally prepare himself and the team for an elite eight game.
Fans here and other places can settle for lower goals. That is their choice. But if you dont aim and strongly desire any higher goals, you will never achieve them. I think too many are starting to believe that conference streaks are good enough and getting a couple of nice non con wins is good enough. Not for me. I love the final four. I love watching teams play in the final four. Getting there is the goal and Self has woefully underachieved compared to other coaches.
This is not “being spoiled”. This is wanting achievement and accomplishment when you have all the tools you need. 04, 07, 10, 11, 13, 16 and 17 were all really, really good teams. Expecting those teams to perform to their seedline is not being a spoiled kid kcmatt. Is Coach mentally settling for smaller goals, thinking that the tourney is a crap shoot like our fan base?
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@Kcmatt7 BINGO on both posts.
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@brooksmd well DG, Svi, Vick, Doke, and Newman will at least have done some time in the program. Preston or if we somehow land Duvall would be our only true OAD guys. To me, a team that loaded is exciting. Throw in Bragg if he can find his jumper and get his head screwed back on all the way.
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There’s that Bill Self choked shit again.
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@brooksmd language please.
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awaiting Jaybate’s analysis of Flagship Nike vs Flagship Adidas.
Nike always wins… Can’t blame it on the refs. Just the Green Men who were juiced and loaded for bear. Typical Kansas opponent who goes batshit crazy statistically…
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@brooksmd don’t you know coach and this team OWE these so called fans a final 4. The same fans that give up on the team 50 % of the time this past season.
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@HawkChamp how bout
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@Crimsonorblue22 if you dont care about post season success or seeing our guys jubilant about going to the final four, then that is your choice.
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But I do, but I care more about wanting it for Mason and the team who works their rears off all year, not for guys like you that gripe more than appreciate the work they put in to our program.
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Everybody complaining about coach Self not winning enough national championships for them are being ridiculous! Go find another team…you know the one that wins the championship every year! When you figure out which one that is, let the rest of us know. There are only about 5 fan bases that wouldn’t take Self in a heartbeat!! 350/351 schools don’t win this year…let alone every year. We, as Jayhawks, should feel blessed that we have a chance every year. At least for a record 28 years in a row and counting.
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@chriz If we’re honest, we all feel that way to some degree. KU fans have high expectations. Ask any Mizzou fan if they’re disappointed that they’re not going to win the NC this year. Or ever.
Remember, when it’s all said and done, there’s only going to be one Champion each year.
That being said, we picked one heck of a night to shoot 20% from the 3 pt line.
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@tulsajhwk BOOM! After our loss, TBS showed clips of disappointed (and defeated), great coaches talking in their post-games this tournament. It was an excellent reminder: there can be only one, and all of these coaches are our there recruiting their asses off and eating, sleeping and dreaming X’s and O’s.
Also, the horrible attitude by Altman and his guys in their post game interview was a stark contrast to the dignity and grace that Self showed in the interview he gave after a heartbreaking loss. We have got a Hall of Fame coach, helping kids learn how to be good men, and hella good basketball players along the way. He gives the program everything he’s got and does it the right way.
Bill Self is the greatest Jayhawk of our generation. Nobody is more invested in this program. Nobody has contributed more to its success. And we are very, very lucky to have him.
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Ya hearing the choking thing gets pretty old after 25 years. I’ll be disappointed for awhile. I was checking some other sites and a lot folks think DG threw the game for money (ridiculous). I also had some friends that are like me and are upset why we can’t play hard time(besides Mason) and time again? Are we recruiting the wrong type of players? We give KSU shit for their play hard chart but man I give a lot to see our guys play hard but it’s too late now. I think I’m getting to be more of a football fan for our University. For the simple they play hard for the whole game, something our basketball team just doesn’t do. People too worried about their draft status or something I guess.
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Some sites = TIGERBOARD?
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Bill Self is 2-7 all time in the Elite 8, 2-5 at KU, and 1-4 as the higher seeded team at KU.
I’m not going to say fire Self because the only reason you would fire Self is if there was a better option available and there’s not one out there.
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@approxinfinity I Think I’m glad I didn’t hear Altman’s post game - -from the feel/read that I’m getting sounds like he was being a complete jerk possibly? - -If he was then total did-respect BUT then again figures it’s Altman never have liked this guy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@chriz Welcome to college basketball and the NCAA tournament ! There are no 3-out-of-5 or 4-out-of-7 rounds here, just college age kids play a single game elimination tourney.
We may have gone as far as we could without a true dominant post player. But one thing we had this year was guys who could gut out close games and rise to the occasion- except for last night when they went flat. I truly didn’t expect that. We had a decent bracket too this year, certainly doable in theory. The tourney-defines-our-whole-season folks on this board will of course point out that Self once again fall short of the final four, but so did Duke this year, and after today, so will NC or Kensucky. Self changed, relaxed, adjusted and let his team play a different style this year. That style was remarkably effective. We were ranked #1 without a dominant big guy. Self is a great coach period.
And lastly, we are in a sense a victim of our own success. We are almost never the underdog, and underdogs in this tourney, remember they are college kids, get crazy motivated to play out of their minds… (we were an underdog in 2012, and we went to the final game). would anybody be surprised if Oregon fell flat on their face next weekend? Or continued to play amazingly? Luck is a big factor here too. Oregon needed to have a great night, and for us to have a flat night, and that’s exactly what happened.
And I can’t believe gonzaga with all their success over the years, has NEVER been to the final four- wow.
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@kjayhawks WOW. these people thinking Devonte threw the game? - -that is beyond laughable, do these so called people have a brain? - THAT is probably the most ridicilious statement I have EVER heard about any KU player, Man I need some of the stuff they smoking -might help num the pain of the loss. - - That is some crazy stuff right there, do these people eat in the same hole that they make these idiotic statements with,? - -Do they stop and think about what the hell they say or do they just let it spew out their pie holes before thinking - -Do we ( KU ) need these kind of people as fans? - - -I think not. - - Does losing hurt? - -suck? hell ya it does, but the sun still came up this morning - - Unbelievable. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 no acknowledgement of the other team, just patting his program on the back. That in combination with his earlier comments about not liking Kansas, and his kids’ self-absorbed attitude in their post-games. That Bell kid just sat there talking about how he thought he was really good. Then the Dorsey kid talked about how good they were to beat Kansas in what was pretty much a home game for Kansas. Maybe it’s easier to win when all you focus on is yourself. There may be something there.
Me, I like the obligatory acknowledgement of the other team’s efforts, not talking about how good you think you were in the game, and not crapping on the other team, even if you’re ignorant to the fact that you’re doing it.
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@approxinfinity Ya I agree, Well I hope they soak it up today because I don’t believe they have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the title. - -I think the title comes from either I hate to say Kentucky OR N Carolina who ever wins that game today, dam I hate saying that but it is what I is - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Forever in my mind, Dana Altman is a punk. But, he was a punk when he was a Grape Ape, and got run out of Manhattan. I believe Coach will figure out a way to come out on top of these games in the future, but folks, he was using duct tape in the middle with a slow LL, and no 4 ( no, Svi is not a 4 in any way, shape, or form ). If Udoka is there, he’s knocking Bell on his keister. If he’s there, our guards have a clear path to the goal, because when Doke seals you off, you are out of the play, period. So, going forward, what can we do to take that next step?
I think we need a Joe Dooley clone on the bench, a straight x and o guy that can bring back that elite defense back into the picture. Maybe it was such a short bench that prevented us from being elite defensively, maybe our lack of interior personnel crushed us, but we were never elite on the defense this year. That is the missing element we had with both runs to the final four. I know we have to have great recruiters, but man, I miss the days of the lockdown defense we had when Dooley was around.
Bill’s approach to Elite 8 games will change, because Bill Self is a winner. Bill has shown he is adjustable, and he will adjust. The Dux were prepared for us from the opening tip. It took us about 30 minutes to finally figure out how to beat the matchup zone, and then we misfired on a ton of open looks. It was like we were trying to make up a 10 point deficit with every shot. This is where a real x and o guy can develop a plan to defeat our opponents. I thought our guys looked lost trying to figure out how to beat that team- they were more ready for us than we were for them.
Bill has a will that is stronger than horseradish. He will overcome these Elite 8 games. I realize that isn’t going to be good enough for some of you. Some of you will call for the guy going into the Hall of Fame this week to be fired. That’s ok - you have the right to be an ingrate. Some of you will be offended I am calling for new blood to be added to our assistants- that’s ok, too. I love KU basketball. I love this coach, and this program. I have been a fan since 1971. I am privileged to follow them with you, and owe you a debt of gratitude for being there with me every game, win or lose. Remember, there is always another year. Until then, May God bless each and every one of you. RCJHGKU.
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So next year coming seeding time, the committee should just say, hey remember KU plays in a terrible conference, lets knock them down a seed or 2 from what they think they should deserve. All the while giving Gonzaga a number 1 seed. Got it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 So if Calipari happened to be available, would you rather have him than Self?
Id rather be bounced in the first round in the actual tournament, than getting bounced in the first round of the NIT.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
But I do, but I care more about wanting it for Mason and the team that works their rears off all year, not for guys like you that gripe more than appreciate the work they put in to our program.
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Don’t wanna be a crying ISU fan.
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@Eric-san I would strongly consider it. Calipari has made 6 Final Fours in his career. Other current college coaches I would strongly consider over Self would be Roy, Izzo, Pitino, and the one I would take for sure is Coach K.
They all have superior March/April resumes to Self, and yes, I would take the occasional NIT appearance if it meant better results in March/April.
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Frank deserved better from his teammates last night. Too bad they weren’t in the gym with him last summer.
I thought they’d respond to adversity better. Fighting over rebounds? Graham scared to shoot?!? Josh hacking away! Aargh, Oregon didn’t beat KU, KU beat KU by not showing up.
I’m really disappointed for the guys. I’m afraid next season will be a step back without our POY and stud freshman. I’m having a hard time getting excited about the future right now. I’m sure my spirits will soar once the guys get to Itally. For now I’m disappointed about back to back final four calibre teams losing at least a game short of their potiental.
Bill can’t have a pity party, he’s gotta go recruit his tail off and start getting next years team ready.
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You may be happy with Final Four appearances, but at the end of the day, people only remember who won the national championship. And how many has Cal won so far at UK? Had Self made it past 1 more round but always got stuck at the Final Four, would you be ok with Self as coach then?
I"m never satisfied with the tournament results unless KU wins the National Championship, but I also realize how hard statistically it is to win 6 games in a row and when you have 64 teams trying to do it, your odds aren’t too great.
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@KUSTEVE said:
Bill’s approach to Elite 8 games will change, because Bill Self is a winner. Bill has shown he is adjustable, and he will adjust. The Dux were prepared for us from the opening tip. It took us about 30 minutes to finally figure out how to beat the matchup zone, and then we misfired on a ton of open looks. It was like we were trying to make up a 10 point deficit with every shot. This is where a real x and o guy can develop a plan to defeat our opponents. I thought our guys looked lost trying to figure out how to beat that team- they were more ready for us than we were for them.
Did you really think the roster this year was solid enough for a final four? Do you really think its possible to rely on a 5’ 10 guard to carry you to a title with NOTHING in the post?
We had a 6’9 center who cant jump higher than 6 inches. The first “big” off the bench looked like a 35&older player all year! This team was only going as far as its outside shot would take it. We went cold and the season ended.
I didn’t see any “Out coaching”.
The only thing I saw that was troubling was the lack of execution on out of bounds plays. That is usually a staple of Kansas and we had to throw it past half court on almost every out of bounds plays under our basket.
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@BigBad A lack of a post presence did not cause rebounds to go off KU and into Oregons hands. It did not cause DG to air ball a shot right in front of the basket. Having a post presence definitely would’ve helped but you make it sound like they had no chance at all in winning last night. Down 6 Brooks bricks a 3 and actually securing the rebound and scoring on the next possession and then what all the sudden its a 1 possession game? Instead, JJ blocks the rebound from FM, and Brooks promptly swishes a 3. I saw that coming. That was the end right there.
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@Eric-san All those coaches I listed, they all have at least 1 title (same as Self), but ALL of them have far more Final Four appearances than Self. Calipari’s 6 is the fewest among all of those other coaches. That’s 4 more than Self and he does have a title as well.
You may want titles, but guess what? You have to get to the Final Four to have that shot and tge reality is Self has sucked in the Elite 8 with his 2-7 record.
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Not saying no chance of winning. But if we went cold from outside our odds go really down because we cant throw it inside and get a couple of needed buckets.
Did you see how easy Lucas was getting the ball early? Oregon knew that the best defense was to crowd our guards and concede Lucas. If our guards blew by a ton they had Bell to cover things.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m not arguing that Self has an Elite8 monkey, but you still have to win in the Final 4, and you still have to win the National Championship. So Cal has been to the Final 4 what 6 times? And how many times has he won the Championship? Once? You really think 1-6 in the Final 4 is better than 2-7 in the E8?
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@Eric-san And how about Izzo?
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Cal is better than 1 and 6 in the Final Four
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@Blown I’m sure his record for the Final 4 is better than 1-6 but out of 6 Final 4 appearances, he only has 1 title does he not?
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There are realistically two coaches you would hire over Self–Coack K & Coach Cal
Both of those come with their baggage, too.
Self is in the top 5 of all active coaches in the country.
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@Eric-san yes 1-6 in the final four is better than 2-7 in the E8 because a final four is better. If we had had a few more final fours I’d feel better about us. That why no one talks about coach Ks 5 first weekend exits as a higher seed since 07 because he gets to the final four and has won 2 titles in that span. We have to win more titles to get to the dook level.
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@Eric-san said:
You really think 1-6 in the Final 4 is better than 2-7 in the E8?
What you said was he was 1 for 6 in the final four. I said he was not.
It looks like you meant to say he was 1 for 3 in the championship game.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
reality is Self has sucked in the Elite 8 with his 2-7 record
Have you ever thought that the record, and the high seedings, might reflect Self’s ability to take good teams higher than they might have deserved, rather than underachieving once there?
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@Eric-san Yes, 1-5 in the Final Four is absolutely better than 2-7 in the Elite 8. That’s 4 more opportunities than Self has had to win a title.
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@mayjay do you think that VCU, UCLA, GT, Nova and Oregon were all better teams than us? I definitely don’t.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Isn’t every loss in the tourney an opportunity lost at winning the title? Does it REALLY matter if you lose in the E8 or F4?
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@kjayhawks Well thats why you play the game is it not? Why play at all if the better team should always win.
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Yes Final Fours are an important bench mark. I think they do matter more than EE. It’s another entire week of having your brand out there.
