Welcome Back Devonte
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@jaybate-1.0 He wore that same thing last year. Guys at the freaking rec wear them. It looks “cool” and it feel comfortable to wear the “lingerie.” He even wore the damn arm band all the way back at Brewster on his left arm. TRob wore them on both arms. Doubt he did it because he hyper extended both elbows.
http://www.collegehoophits.com/blog/devonte-graham-is-a-jayhawk
Let’s be real. He is scoring more PPG. Has more SPG. Has more ASP. Is shooting a better percentage from the floor even though he is taking more shots and shooting worse from 3. A better percentage from free throw line. And he is still shooting a very respectable 38% from the arc. DG is healthy.
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I think I put Devonte at a higher standard than most fans do.
I expect total greatness from Devonte every game. I see him as the overall most-gifted player we have.
But I get frustrated with him just like I did with Wayne Selden. Wayne just seemed to be too laid back most of the time and would just kick in the afterburners for certain games or certain situations. There was no way to count on that and often, in big games, it wasn’t there. That is not the right recipe for winning out in March.
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@Kcmatt7 exactly. It felt like a wild goose chase for injuries. Nothing is wrong with him
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@RockChalkRedlock excellent example of Devontes dunk. He is fine
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“But I’ve gotta say that I don’t see a leadership issue on the team.”
So in March, when we are down by 8 with 3 minutes left in the game, do you see a player stepping up and giving the entire team a pep rally?
I don’t think we need a babysitter at PG. But I know how valuable it is to have someone out there leading, directing, motivating, pushing the right tempo.
Actually… just thinking of the last item, tempo, we are already lacking leadership to try to control tempo. Even Fran has been mentioning it about our games. We are playing home games against inferior competition and we let them control tempo. That is a leadership issue.
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@drgnslayr I think in March if the team needs a come-to-Jesus meeting, seniors Frank and Landen will definitely step right up. And it will have far more impact because they are not the constant talkers now.
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@mayjay great point. We saw the senior leadership of the Arch and Ochefu last year. We need that this year and we need Devonte to step up and not be a spectator like what he normally does.
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@et al,
My prediction remains: once Self spends the next two games versus weak opponents giving Josh as much work on scoring and running the offense as he can, the team we saw earlier this season run efficiently and authoritatively by Frank Mason.
FRANK IS APPARENTLY THE MOST EXPERIENCED AND SKILLED POINT GUARD RUNNING A TOP 5 team in D1.
Frank will drive the car.
The looming question is: will Devonte’s injuries sideline him and force Vick into a role requiring sudden productivity.
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Oh, yes, I’ve been using the line quite a bit. Alas, the mind control techniques of the election used by both candidates, plus the USA national security state, plus the national security states of Russia, China and Israel, have just destroyed your and everyone else’s senses of time!!!
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9 times out of 10 I’m right about the injuries.
Read the season stats to reassure yourself that his recent stats don’t matter.
I can wait.
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It is hilarious how people get stressed out by talk of injuries. It forces them to think and thinking hurts almost as much as injuries!
I never think about injuries until a guy who has proved he can do it suddenly stops doing it and keeps not getting it done.
It’s scary to think about injuries, because it raises a lot of uncertainty and fans hate uncertainty!
You’re so annoyed right now you can’t even remember that many, many injuries occur EVERY season. Having Landen, Devonte and Doke injured is just about par for the course. And you can bet there are more guys “nicked up” we don’t recognize…yet.
Your whining at me about me mentioning injuries suggests how much denial about injuries you employ to get through seasons.
Don’t worry about talking about the injuries. They happen and often and masking them and getting guys to “play through” is one of Self’s great abilities.
All sports at a high level involve lots of injuries.
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@jaybate-1.0 While mind control is fun, my lack of recall just might have had more to do with Rose Mary Woods’ erasure of 9 months of KUBuckets data…
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I will guess the younger posters have no clue who RoseMary Woods was…
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@jaybate-1.0 of course, when you attribute everything to injuries you are bound to get a couple right.
Dude, we all know guys get nicked up. I did too as a player. Even Captain Obvious knows that.
No one is getting stressed out. What we can’t understand is why you don’t provide specific instances to prove your point about something as specific as a “pretty clearly hyperextended elbow”. If you see something, give us a minute marker.
No one minds you suggesting it is an injury. Again, the problem is no one else sees what you see and when we ask for proof, you say we are mad and upset. You clearly avoid providing evidence. I won’t believe it just because someone says it.
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Has anyone else noticed that coach Self has been sitting for longer periods at a time during games? Since I recently endured similar problems, I wonder if he has a corn on his foot. Makes you wonder.
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@drgnslayr
NO-EMOTION?
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@autohawk Strained vocal cords.
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Ooh, I like the apparent Over Generalization 101 approach. It’s like you’re dusting off site destabilization and thread redirect. I thought the site had moved on from those bad old days.
Example 1: lead with false premise of ridiculous overgeneralization by @HawkChamp
“of course, when you attribute everything to injuries you are bound to get a couple right.”
You’ve been watching too much MSM.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, right?
Next.
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DG IS CRUCIAL TO RING PURSUIT. AGREED.
That’s why I’m making such an issue of his possible injury. We’ve got to get him back to health for our team to be what it can be.
Even with Doke out for the season, Self has a chance to baling wire the inside, if he can start maybe the best scoring, non-long-stack perimeter since Mike Bibby’s UA ring team,
I can’t say they are better overall than the '08 KU ring team perimeter, because that bunch was too good at too many things, but your optimism about this year’s bunch has certainly been vindicated.
This year’s four deep rotation outside, when everyone is healthy, is special!!!
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@autohawk Has anyone else noticed that Self has gained a lot of weight?
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“He wore that same thing last year”
I’ll play take what you give me. Chronic injury that compounds in limiting effect with a new leg injury.
I’ve had had chronic injuries and multiple injuries, where I can mask well with the first, but the combination of it with another tipped my performance down a slippery slope.
Really, I don’t understand these blinders about injury hampering performance. It happens most every season to some players for a few games or entire seasons.
Physical injuries appear much more empirical drivers of decreasing performance in many cases than all this psychological mumbo jumbo and statistical randomness hooey injury deniers resort to IMHO.
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I happen to agree with your opinions. I think this team is still trying to find its identity. At 14-1 we still have the chance to hit the next level while some teams might have already hit theirs and won’t be able to sustain it by the end of the year. We are now 4 games without Doke, I bet after 10-15 games we will really start to see what we are made of. At that point we should know whether we are the team to beat in the tournament or we’ll rely on some luck and favorable matchup’s to get to the Final 4. I love this team though, I love the 4 guard attack and having a super duper freshman that just gets it.
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@jaybate-1.0 “Take what you give me.” Did you click the link? He wore the arm band all the way back in high school. On his left arm… That ain’t chronic. It’s just a fashionable thing. Guys that wear headbands don’t wear them because they have concussions. Carlton doesn’t wear his pants all the way up because he has a hip injury and the extra padding from him rolling his pants up prevents his hips from hurting. Give the elbow up. Maybe a leg. But still, doubtful. Especially given his conference stats are 14.6 ppg and 5.6 apg.
Is it not more realistic that teams have moved him up the priority list? And that we have also increased his usage? Resulting in performances that look less than stellar yet still creating career highs. Last season he was the 3rd or 4th scoring option depending on who was on the floor. This season he is the 2nd or 3rd with instances of him being #1 for a few minutes a game. So instead of drawing the 3rd, 4th and 5th best perimeter defenders on a team he is being guarded by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best perimeter defenders.
Higher usage+better defense= Off nights. Happens to all players.
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I think Devonte will have another big game tonight. He liked Norman last year. Let’s see if he can score close to 20 again…
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@jaybate-1.0 “It is hilarious how people get stressed out by talk of injuries.”
Isn’t this statement for you. I literally have no stress over injuries. None. You are looking for phantom injuries, that way Jaybate can perpetually be right. If the Jayhawks ever come up short, all wise jaybate knew the whole time. Its never provable, but you can give yourself credit eveytime.
I’m sorry I’m calling you out on it, but its becoming an annual pattern. Each season every year. I know there are a lot of posters that roll their eyes when you make your medical generalizations. I’m not just “whining” about you because I’m in denial, there is no denial involved in something you can’t prove. Actions speak louder than words. That’s what I base my argument on, Devontes literal live in game actions.
Not sure if you listen to the games on the radio or you need a new HDMI cord. Last game Devonte went so high in the air to dunk the ball his elbow may have been above the rim! In all of Devonte’s years at KU he has never looked more athletic. How can you deny this?
Also wearing any sleeves or compression leggings is also irrelevant. They may be useful, but that gear is fashionable for people in today’s sports. I thought you were the Nike/ sports gear expert. Under Armor started this fad and now Nike and Addias jumped on the band wagon as well. They all make and promote this gear. Heck the majority of it is worn by middle and high school kids. Guess how many of those kids are injured or even need to wear it. I think perhaps you might not be aware of this reality, so I’ll give you a pass. Seriously go any AAU function or heck walk through any middle school hallway, the amount of leggings and sleeves could be measured in tonnage.
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Gosh. Just remember everyone sees things thru their own filter. We can all have our theories. Let that variety add richnnes to these threads…
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And we do want to be surging upwards at the end of the year. Peaking early is not the right thing, but is this team capable of peaking this year anyways? I guess another injury could make it hard for us to come up to where we are before the injury.
It is hard to say what we would become (moving forward) if we still had Doke. We have to just stay focused on the positive, and there is plenty to be positive about with this team!
I’m with you… I love this team and I love the 4-guard attack!
I think we have crazy potential to lift up to a much higher level. Most of it will just require energy and leadership. We already know these guys are capable of locking down on defense. And we know they are capable on offense…
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“Has anyone else noticed that Self has gained a lot of weight?”
I think he put on some holiday weight.
I saw him a couple of months ago and he looked great! He had definitely lost weight and looked to be in good health. He wasn’t breathing heavy like I have seen him do in the past.
I’ve also noticed he seems to be really into the game this year. He’s standing and pacing in the bench area during games. And I think he is a bit more vocal during games, too. He clearly enjoys coaching this group…
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@Kcmatt7 said:
It’s just a fashionable thing.
How shall I put this?
This IDS must be a female dog.
It propels often sensible aliases into saying the darnedest things to keep their anti-injury narrative intact.
Hmmm. There’s just no way to sugar coat this.
That is the MOST astonishing, essentially ridiculous, assertion you have made to moi yet on this subject. And I mean “ridiculous” as an accurate adjective, not as an epithet. I have no intent to insult you here. Its just that your assertion appears pretty far out i the left tail of the normal distribution of probability, and so ridiculous appears apt.
Something cannot be considered fashionable, when few, if any, persons do it for fashion, right? I actually can’t think of a single player that has ever claimed to wear elbow lingerie, “because it is fashionable.” Not one. You like to ask for quotes, so I will take what you give me. Could you post a link to a quote by a D1 basketball player that says he wears elbow lingerie because it is fashionable? I don’t know. I just don’t recall such a quote. I also don’t recall any announcer ever saying, “Wow, Jay, a lot of these kids are wearing these elbow hyperextension protection sleeves for fashion, aren’t they?” Do you recall anyone saying that on TV?
And just because you “say” you have observed some kid in some gym somewhere in god’s creation beyond D1 wearing elbow lingerie does not make it a fashion in D1, does it? I mean, the kid could have been injured, right? No, wait, you don’t like for players to be injured. Its part of IDS, right? Hmm. Lemme see. How about this: he could have been wearing an elbow pad in elbow lingerie to protect his elbow right? Protection is okay, isn’t it? That doesn’t threaten the IDS, does it? Or he might have kept a stash of change for the soft drink machine in the hollowed out elbow pad, right? Or a key to his front door, maybe?
I mean you do understand that the arm band Graham is wearing is developed for medical purposes, right? You don’t question that to sustain this apparent illusion of your IDS, do you?
The arm band is designed to protect an elbow hyper extension, right? The version with an elbow pad is also designed to protect an elbow joint from further impacts, right? I mean you are still able to distinguish medical function in this elastic fabric device for the 'bow, correctomundo?
There is a difference between elbow lingerie and, say, wrist bands, or head bands, right? The last two are just to manage perspiration, right? You don’t consider perspiration an “injury,” right? A person doesn’t have to be protected from the injury of perspiration, right? I mean a floor has to be swept and towelled to prevent slip and fall, which might lead to injury, but you perceive that players wear wrist bands and head bands to manage perspiration. In turn, you see that turning wrist bands and head bands into fashion statements is a little more likely than turning arm straps into fashion statements, affirmativo?
I have worn one of those sleeves for a short while, and I have worn sweat bands on my wrists. I quit wearing the sleeve as soon as I could. Didn’t like it. The bands on my wrists I could take or leave. I wore them when my pals wore them as a fashion statement briefly, then moved on. But wearing a sleeve as a fashion statement? Since high school, when you are an upper classman? Man, that is some dedication to fashion. Or you gotta be kidding me, right?
Do you think these players are wearing these knee braces and ankle boots and heel cups and orthotics for fashion statements, too? Hey, man, if only you could see my heel cup inside my tube socks. I put a transfer of Kate Perry on the inside of my heel cup. It is bitchin’ fashionable, dude."
If the answer to that question were yes, then it might appear that you have moved beyond IDS to something more acute.
Aw, what the heck?! I’ve just been having some fun with you here. You feel pretty strongly about this issue of there being no injuries to Devonte, and this whole sleeve-as-fashion thing. Let’s go with it.
D1 players that wear elbow sleeves, knee braces, ankle boots, heel cups, orthotics, and hockey masks are doing it mostly for fashion, especially any that have worn them since high school.
Ahem.
I feel a little weird writing it though.
But I’m on your team and if this is the glue you need, then this is the glue you get.
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Seriously, Self wears elbow lingerie under his long sleeve shirts with his suits, because it is, eh, fashionable.
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I’m trying to imagine… no wait… no I’m not!
If we can just kill Jay Bilas’ crusade against contact, we can start wearing helmets in games.
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Howling!!!
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OMG! I almost forgot to tell you. I was in a thrift store recently in a somewhat tough neighborhood, and saw a t-shirt on a kid that made me think instantly of you.
The T-shirt was grey with a front on view on the chest of a black hoop with dark grey chain net with one side of the net having broken links and hanging down a little lower. The topper was bright red blood was running down that right side of net and dripping all the way down the front of the T-shirt. It was the greatest T-shirt I have ever seen by quite considerable margin. I had to use the restroom, and when I got back the kid had left. Damn, it was a beautiful idea!!!
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Now that is a PICTURE!!!
I’m sooooooo hoping Frank takes the L by storm the way Steve Nash did.
Nash really didn’t play all that fast at Santa Clara in college. I saw him play two games and I really doubted he could make it in the NBA.
Frank is just Tiny Archibald and Steve Nash rolled together when it comes to the after burner.
I really hope that he gets the right opportunity in the NBA, because he could really get an NBA team flying up and down the floor.
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m sorry to keep hounding you, but I’m just trying to give a new perspective on sleeve/legging reality. Disclaimer is that I understand players in D1 sports use these these for medical reasons. I understand they help people prevent injuries, I understand this. The thing is the majority of people wearing these will not fall apart if they take them off.
I think what kcmatt7 was pointing out is that people are wearing these for fashion and not function. Kids today sports idols wear them and they want to be like Mike! Its why Air Jordan’s are popular, its why anything is popular. Take my word, seriously. I have seen what thousands of teens wear and it this is a reality. Don’t believe me, go look for yourself.
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m done with your nonsense.
"Allen Iverson began using a basketball sleeve during the 2000-01 season due to bursitis in his right elbow. Afterward, fans wore the sleeve as a fashion statement, and by 2008, the sleeves were the most popular non-apparel items sold by the league, according to an NBA Store spokesperson. Other players, including Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Dwyane Wade, Paul George, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James[2] have worn the sleeves as well.
Iverson continued wearing his basketball sleeve long after his elbow had healed, which led Steven Kotler of Psychology Today to suggest that the sleeve may act as a placebo to prevent future injuries. Basketball sleeves are also sometimes referred to as basketball shooting sleeves. Some players believe the mild compression they provide helps keep their shooting arm warm and improves circulation. Although some studies show improved circulation and reduced soreness, there has been no definitive study on the use of basketball sleeves."
“Medical necessity quickly turned into fashion accessory. “We used the stockinette to help Allen get through sore days,” Currier told me. “But as you know with Allen, once the other players started seeing him wearing it, they all followed his lead.” A few months after Iverson débuted the repurposed compression stockinette, a nascent sportswear company called Under Armour contacted Currier and asked if Iverson might try on a nylon sleeve they had made especially for him.”
"Posed with the question as to whether he wears sleeves for fashion or health reasons, Brooklyn Nets forward Andrea Bargnani said “I think it’s in the middle.” He added that he originally began wearing the sleeve to reduce pain in his right arm. Bargnani now wears two leggings and one sleeve—on his left arm.
“Obviously, I don’t need it,” Bargnani said."
http://www.wsj.com/articles/allen-iverson-and-the-nbas-sleeve-revolution-1448488382
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_sleeve
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/object-of-interest-the-history-of-the-allen-iverson-sleeve
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@Kcmatt7 great post!
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
It propels often sensible aliases into saying the darnedest things to keep their anti-injury narrative intact.
And thank you for the compliment!
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@jaybate-1.0 you still don’t have proof and can’t provide minute markers. I don’t watch the MSM but apparently you watch some of them as you have no idea how to provide evidence to your theories and just say how inept everyone else is. When I was in writing class in college, my teacher would have given me an F on a paper that I didn’t provide evidence for - evidence for a claim is what its called. You can look it up on Google.
I don’t know what the “bad old days” were, but if those days were asking people to provide a reason for their belief and show where the other team is clearly forcing someone left when no one else sees it, then I guess these are the bad days.
PS - You really think I rely on the MSM and their talking points? LOL!!!
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Okay, now THAT is some HARD evidence.
OMG! OMG!!!
I want to go buy one pair each in Navy AOR-2, Marpat forrest, and the new US4CES Bravo (none of that Charlie stuff for moi!!!).
I have never been sooooooooooooooo wrong!!!
No wait, Bargnani, said he thinks the reason he wears it is in the middle. He wears it for health reasons and for fashion.
OMG! OMG! Its both.
He says he doesn’t need it, but he wears it to control pain and for fashion.
Wait a minute!!!
WAIT!!!
This REALLY means Bargnani, and any other player that had elbow pain from a hyper extension, or tendonitis issue, WOULD wear a sleeve on their sore arm, RIGHT?
And, ummmm, that means that when a guy’s athletic performance falls off sharply and he is wearing a sleeve and leggings, well, that sleeve and legging become evidence of where the injury would tend to be, RIGHT???
Oh, shizzle, the 'bate 1.0 cannot help being right even when he tries to admit being wrong, RIGHT?
Holy cow!!!
HOLY COW!!!
Which is more likely?
A guy falls down to 28% FG shooting, starts shooting 3 inch jump shots, can’t elevate very often except on the run, and generally loses his explosiveness, and wears sleeves and legs lingerie for fashion?
Or…
A guy falls down to 28% FG shooting a couple games, starts shooting 3 inch jump shots, can’t elevate very often except on the run, and generally loses his explosiveness, and wears sleeves and legs lingerie for health reasons?
Or to put it another way, are we to believe Devonte just got into a little mental funk about the meaning of life, or are we to search for explanations among the following:
a.) leg injury;
b.) arm injury;
c.) cold or flu;
d.) girl friend troubles;
e.) drug addiction; or
c.) fashion doubt.
Man, I’ve gotta say, you almost had me going there for a minute.
I was almost ready to attribute it all to a fun about fashion doubt.
I mean think about how hard it is to jump, or shoot accurately, or strip the ball, when you are doubting your fashion.
NEXT!
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@jaybate-1.0 did you watch the game? lol He went up high for a one handed dunk. If he is injured, how can he do that?
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Okay, I’ll take what you give me.
Did you even watch the game?
Did you see Devonte shooting the three inch jump shots?
Did you see him switching and dragging the leg?
Did you see him not being explosive most of the game?
Did you ever think that one get up was all he had in him?
LOL!
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@jaybate-1.0 apparently you are incapable of objectively debating with someone else without immature rebuttals. I am done with this thread.
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No, i have an idea how NOT to do your work for you.
So, again, I’ll take what you give me.
You provide me the minute markers when he was explosive off both legs.
You provide me the minute markers that he was playing the same number of minutes as explosively as he did last season.
You provide me the…well, I could go on here forever.
You haven’t provided me ANYTHING that refutes my assertion that he is injured.
You have only proven that guys are wearing arm sleeves and leg lingerie for pain and fashion. Right?
Provide me the minute markers for when these guys only wear sleeves and leg lingerie for fashion only.
Provide me the minute markers and quotes that the players and coaches never have the players wear the sleeves and the leg lingerie for pain.
You apparently not only don’t know how to prove your case, but you apparently don’t know how to reason very well either.
Dang, I was so excited for you for awhile. I was getting out my fork and knife to eat some crow, because I am always willing to do that. And I would be sooooo happy if Devonte turned out to be barely injured and just about well, which I is what I now I am hoping for. But I thought sure your graphics really proved your case for awhile, but all they prove is that players wear these things for pain and fashion. They don’t prove which and when. And they don’t say anything about Devonte. But that’s okay, because you were avoiding Devonte, and focusing on trying to wake me up to the fact that the sleeves and leg lingerie have a fashion element that I did not realize. That much I thank you for.
Let me repeat that: I was wildly wrong about how the fashion part. And I got soooooo jazzed for you that you were right about the fashion part that I figured, well, you must be right about the pain part, too. But, well, then I began to stop looking at the pictures and started reading the words and “thinking” again, and, well, sorry, you didn’t prove Devonte isn’t injured.
All you proved is that players wear these things for pain and fashion.
I’ll give you a C for dragging in some data. And I’ll give you an A for waking me up to the fashion issue.
But you haven’t done shizzle as far as prove or disprove Devonte’s condition. You just keep harping on Devonte doing one lousy dunk. Have you forgotten that Tyrel Reed, a career 40% plus trey baller, played most of his last season operable on a bum foot and still shot 36% from three and flipping dunked during warm ups (apparently to keep opponents from guessing accurately how injured he was)? I mean really, haven’t you ever tried to hide an injury on the wood from an opponent? Haven’t you ever jumped even though it hurt like hell. Doing anything once, or just a few times a game, doesn’t mean a player is healthy! It means the exact opposite usually. It means a player is saving himself and trying as much as possible to protect the injured spot in hopes it will heal. You do understand that players play injured, don’t you?
And you sure as heck haven’t provided me the minute markers and the quotes that sleeves and leg lingerie are not used for health reasons, have you?
But just to show you I’m a mensch, I will throw you a bone. If you want to work for me for free for a while, I recall that there have been times in the past when it appeared to me that Self was having most, or all, of the players wear sleeves, and or leg lingerie, in order to mask somewhat which players were injured where.
Gee, I’m feeling so generous I will offer you another bone. Again, you have to want to run errands for me for free to do it, though. I also recall times when Self has appeared to have players with reported leg injuries to one leg wear leg lingerie on both legs, again, apparently to make it just a little harder for the opponent to recognize which leg was the weak one to exploit.
Now, get to it. Fetch!
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I dont think he ever really left to be honest he just had some bad shooting games. Has had good assists numbers all year. One thing that drives me crazy is after a few games that one guy doesnt play well several on here are like he must be hurt!!! Sometimes people just have bad games guys,
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@JayHawkFanToo That’s the game that I noticed the fast food recruiting paunch.
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I believe you have it absolutely right. Basketball sleeves are really “compression sleeves” that the makers claim improve circulation and might on occasion lessen the impact of a knee or elbow knock that can be painful to the touch but present no structural damage. There is no medical evidence that they do anything other than to feel and look good.
Anyone that follows basketball or other sports know that the great majority of sleeves are worn as fashion and because of the placebo effect and not to correct any existing damage or prevent further injuries since the have no structural rigidity; they are one small step above a tattoo. On the other hand, orthopedic braces worn by injured players will normally have structural components that limit movement or shield the body part from further impact.
I have seen kids in rec. leagues wearing compression sleeves and I know they have no injuries…monkey see, monkey do. Marathon runners are now wearing knee high compression socks…in their defense, those race starts are brutal with all the shoving, kicking, elbowing and eye gouging that goes on…worse than the bottom of a football pile with Dick Butkus squeezing your nuts…brutal I tell you, brutal; I am not sure how they ever survived before without their knee highs. No fiction and no malice although plenty of tongue-in-cheek…
