What does “faith in Bill” mean?
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I have very little faith that Bill and co can recruit guys that he can mold into shape by tournament time next year.
That does not mean I don’t believe he can win the big one, but I dont think it will be the year after a reboot.
So where does that leave us?
He has yet to show any proficiency with or desire to use the portal effectively.
His success with building the team with high school kids will require at least 2 years, but is a possibility because at least 3 starting positions will have a large amount of minutes available for young players. Maybe young 2 way transfers can work as well.
I am ok with him attempting to build for the year after next.
But the comps for next years team with traditional building would be 2005-2006 -> loss to Bradley. Or 2013-2014 -> loss to Stanford.
And, an elite 8 loss (as in 2006-2007 to a good ucla team in san diego) the year after next might be considered a successful season, whereas a second round loss (as in 2014-2015 to wichita state) might be considered an unsuccessful one. Worth noting that attrition in 2007 meant Julian Wright. Attrition in 2015 meant Wiggins and Embiid. Attrition in 2026 will most likely mean Peterson and possibly Flory, which would set us back more like the attrition in 2015. Also worth noting that Rush breaking his arm had a huge impact, as he would have left in 2007)
So if history is to repeat itself, Bill has to get lucky, and has to recruit some really really good talent to develop, and has to have at least 3 years
Are we prepared for this?
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I saw the Stanford loss coming a mile away.
But that was a bad matchup problem for us. Unlucky draw.
We didn’t do well against size and multiple bigs that season. And they had both.
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Even if he gets the recruits he won’t win. He couldn’t win with one and dones and he can’t win with older transfers (but uh Remy you said and I’d respond with Dave, Och, Braun and Wilson - 4 guys with 3+ years in the program which won’t be the setup)
I think Vernon tweeted about Self’s system and he bends to no one.
The issue is 100% Self and his basketball beliefs in his system. He doesn’t massage the system to fit the roster like a goat coach would - he tries to force his players to run the system exactly as he’d like even if it doesn’t play to their strengths
He’s souring his legacy but so be it - he’s a stubborn dude
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@approxinfinity I’m expecting this unfortunately I’ve seen the writing on the wall the last handful of years. We got very lucky in 2022 to postpone the inevitable. We are the next Indiana or Nebraska football if we continue to let Coach Self stay on the sidelines. The game has passed him by as it does most good or great coaches eventually. I hope Peterson is able to somehow get this team out of the first weekend next season but I’d say the odds are less than 1 in 1,000. We will have some talent but will be super young and won’t have hardly any cohesiveness. Ive been saying a lot the last two years and honestly feel like several folks on here owe me apologizes because I was right on all if it. We wouldn’t win with KJ and Juan playing 30 plus minutes respectively. We also can’t win without NBA caliber guards, every single team that wins the NC has NBA talent on their roster especially a guard this one does not. Heck there is 3 starters that likely don’t play professionally anywhere in the world.
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@kuballin10 Yup. I believe his best coaching days are behind him. Wouldn’t mind if he proves me wrong, but he’s been trending down (see how young and hip I am?) for several years now. I don’t see things improving unless we get some new blood.
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@kuballin10 yep his overall win percentage has dipped 5% overall the last 2 years and he now has a lower win % than Roy did here.
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@kjayhawks said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@approxinfinity I’m expecting this unfortunately I’ve seen the writing on the wall the last handful of years. We got very lucky in 2022 to postpone the inevitable. We are the next Indiana or Nebraska football if we continue to let Coach Self stay on the sidelines. The game has passed him by as it does most good or great coaches eventually. I hope Peterson is able to somehow get this team out of the first weekend next season but I’d say the odds are less than 1 in 1,000. We will have some talent but will be super young and won’t have hardly any cohesiveness. Ive been saying a lot the last two years and honestly feel like several folks on here own me apologizes because I was right on all if it. We wouldn’t win with KJ and Juan playing 30 plus minutes respectively. We also can’t win without NBA caliber guards, every single team that wins the NC has NBA talent on their roster especially a guard this one does not. Heck there is 3 starters that likely don’t play professionally anywhere in the world.
You and me both but don’t expect it to happen! Even Self yesterday blamed the portal - wouldn’t dare question himself for miss assessing his two sons awful quality of play
All we heard is d2 is a winner and all we saw was him step out of bounds and then lead two of the worst years in the last 25……but yeah Bill still claims he’s a winner
Self and his act are done - he sucks and I see now why USA bball had zero interest in him being around their team
He’s honestly overrated which I can’t believe I’m typing. With his rosters he should have achieved so much more but his “favorites” that ran “his system the best” held teams back. He never elevated all his guys he only backed the 2-3 he loved and placed the blame on everyone else
That ish don’t fly no more with proven transfers and 23 year olds - he got away with it when dudes were 18 and young/dumb
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@kuballin10 D2 and Silvio are the worst recruiting decisions Self has ever made imo. I’d prob be crying at this point if Self announced his retirement, tears of joy of course. I’m still super worried Peterson is going to jump ship and if that happens it’s the death of Kansas basketball as we know it. We won’t be even remotely competitive in the conference without him.
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lol
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@BShark wait which part?
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Sorry… D2 = ?
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@bskeet said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
Sorry… D2 = ?
Our Division 2 talent all everything PG Juan Harris
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thx.
He really disappeared this year. There were like 7 minutes in the second half where he looked like his old self-- driving, hitting layups, making plays…
Really an enigma why he wasn’t like that more often this year. At times I wondered if there was something behind the scenes because he wasn’t himself.
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@approxinfinity said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@BShark wait which part?
Made the mistake of unblocking someone for a moment. Same drivel.
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I would agree that next year actually is important to see if Bill can have success in this era. Some reasons to believe he turned over a new leaf with regards to player handling in the middle of this season but old habits die hard.
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@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
I would agree that next year actually is important to see if Bill can have success in this era. Some reasons to believe he turned over a new leaf with regards to player handling in the middle of this season but old habits die hard.
Next season is the most important Basketball in the history of Kansas.
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@kjayhawks said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
I would agree that next year actually is important to see if Bill can have success in this era. Some reasons to believe he turned over a new leaf with regards to player handling in the middle of this season but old habits die hard.
Next season is the most important Basketball in the history of Kansas.
lol… sounds like political hyperbole!
Hard to imagine any season being more important than season 1 when Naismith established his game as a sport here.
I do like the idea of trying to rank the most important seasons in KU history. Would be a very interesting exercise. (maybe a future idea for a thread)
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@bskeet they make fun of our pt guard Juan, call him a div. 2 pt guard.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@bskeet they make fun of our pt guard Juan, call him a div. 2 pt guard.
Despite him being all-conference and not every PG received that honor so not the worst PG in the league despite what some will claim.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 when was Juan named all conference? He was on the all defensive team but don’t see him as even as an honorable mention PG
Notice Cryer was all B12 first team for the second straight year and was second team all American. So glad Juan is so much better than him
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@kjayhawks you missed it!
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@Crimsonorblue22 google says he was all defensive team 3 times and defensive POY. Doesn’t mater easily the worst PG in the self era in super happy to never watch him play again
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I still have faith in Bill. Going to zone against Ark almost won him the game. I think Harris, Hunter, and KJ leaving will unlock some more more clarity for him. The ultimate team killer these last 5 years was Harris and Bill sticking with him as long as he did. He killed any chances the team had to go far and he seemed to get worse every year. He was very strong on defense early in his career and that even went downhill. He brought nothing to the table and took dimensions away from a team that is normally dynamic. Bad shooter, bad passer, doesn’t value the ball, doesn’t lead vocally, average at dribble penetration. I’m so happy to see him gone. What bothers me the most are the small things, how come we don’t have real leaders on the team? Think back to Devonte Graham. He would be pulling the team together on the floor for quick huddles, arms around each other, etc. Positive reinforcement, etc. These guys just play with emotionless faces which is a reflection of Harris’ demeanor whether they are up 30 or down 30, its the same. As PG and senior, he sets the tone and it has been horrible for so long.
Another thing that I think reflects on Bill is the team doesn’t run anymore. They used to be able to run fast break over and over and utilize elite athleticism and beat other teams down the court for layups. If that happens 5-6 times per game (which is usually on the low end) thats 10-12 easy points of an advantage over the other team. Any missed shot was a fast break, even after some makes. With Harris running the show it was always a slow dribble up the court and start running the most vanilla offense I can recall seeing. There are very few run plays. And when they do, they run them slow and with bad passes. Its terrible. PG needs to set the example for everyone else and his example has led to this steady decline. Hopefully we get back to real KU basketball starting next year with guys in the mold of Dotson, Frank, Graham, etc. Harris era has been a disaster.
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@RockkChalkk I do fully believe if KJ doesn’t get hurt KU wins. That sucked the life out of the team.
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@RockkChalkk do you watch all the games?
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I really think everything depends on Elmarko. He is the guy who can have the most positive influence on the team if he is a vocal leader and is healthy. If not, I am not expecting a high ceiling next year.
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@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@RockkChalkk I do fully believe if KJ doesn’t get hurt KU wins. That sucked the life out of the team.
The life that Hunter hadn’t already stolen. His plodding pace was brutal.
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@kjayhawks said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@Texas-Hawk-10 when was Juan named all conference? He was on the all defensive team but don’t see him as even as an honorable mention PG
Then you’re either blind or illiterate. Straight from the Big 12’s website:
Honorable Mention: Arizona: Tobe Awaka, Henri Veesaar; Baylor: Robert Wright; BYU: Egor Demin; UCF: Darius Johnson; Cincinnati: Jizzle James; Colorado: Julian Hammond III; Houston: Emanuel Sharp; Kansas: Dajuan Harris Jr.; Kansas State: David N’Guessan; Oklahoma State: Bryce Thompson; TCU: Noah Reynolds, Ernest Udeh Jr.; Utah: Gabe Madsen
Harris was also honorable mention in 2022-23 and 2023-24 as well. So apparently the people that watch and cover the Big 12 for a living disagree with you about Harris not being good enough to start anywhere else in the league.
Notice Cryer was all B12 first team for the second straight year and was second team all American. So glad Juan is so much better than him
Not this dead horse again. At what point will you accept that Dejuan Harris and LJ Cryer play different positions and Harris has had absolutely nothing to do with Cryer never coming to Kansas. This horse has been beaten dead, buried, dug up, beaten again, buried again, but apparently needs to dug up and beaten again. So for the eleventy millionth time:
Harris and Cryer were different recruiting classes. Harris was 2019 and Cryer was 2020. Harris was a higher rated recruit than Cryer out of high school. Harris was 94th in the 2019 247 Composite rankings and Cryer 100 in the 2020 247 Composite.
Out of high school, KU never offered Cryer. KU recruited Bryce Thompson at the 2 spot in that class. That’s who Self and staff chose over Cryer the first time.
Once Cryer entered the portal after the 2022-23 season, Cryer was well established as a 2 who couldn’t play the 1 full time. In regards to NIL, Self and staff chose Hunter Dickinson as the big money transfer. In regards to on court positions, Self and staff chose Morris and Timberlake over Cryer.
So again, Dejuan Harris had nothing to do with where LJ Cryer ended up playing in college. Comparing the two and continuing to try and imply Harris is why Cryer never came here has zero merit to it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I guess in missed him at the bottom in the fine print. So 4th best in the B12 long shot from the best in the country. He stank and I’ve never been more happy to see a guy graduate. Jump pass turnovers for 5 while too scared to shoot is more than I can handle. There is zero doubt we have missed several great recruits and transfer because self thinks he’s a god.
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@kjayhawks said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I guess in missed him at the bottom in the fine print. So 4th best in the B12 long shot from the best in the country. He stank and I’ve never been more happy to see a guy graduate. Jump pass turnovers for 5 while too scared to shoot is more than I can handle. There is zero doubt we have missed several great recruits and transfer because self thinks he’s a god.
Drop the damn argument about the best PG in the B12. I don’t know why in the hell you think I keep making that argument, because I haven’t. I don’t remember myself ever making that argument, and if I ever did, it hasn’t been in the past couple of years.
You keep claiming he wouldn’t start on any other team in the Big 12 and I’ve called bullshit for that statement multiple times but that doesn’t equal me thinking or claiming he’s the best PG in the Big 12. I will say that he would’ve started for about half the teams in the Big 12 this past season.
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@dylans said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@RockkChalkk I do fully believe if KJ doesn’t get hurt KU wins. That sucked the life out of the team.
The life that Hunter hadn’t already stolen. His plodding pace was brutal.
Yeah he was a “good” player but I’m glad to be moving on in general.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@RockkChalkk do you watch all the games?
Yes, every single one for as long as i can remember. Decades.
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@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@dylans said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@RockkChalkk I do fully believe if KJ doesn’t get hurt KU wins. That sucked the life out of the team.
The life that Hunter hadn’t already stolen. His plodding pace was brutal.
Yeah he was a “good” player but I’m glad to be moving on in general.
For sure people react I like hate Juan/KJ and wish harm to them. I actually think they are Great individuals and hope the real world treats them well. That being said they maybe the least improved 4+ year players in Kansas basketball history and limited us severely the last two seasons and those that know ball a 100% agree.
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I think anyone who speaks English knows what “faith in Bill” means. Whether one has faith in him or not is a different issue.
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@Jhawk69 do we? I was trying to parse it a little bit and quantify it, because to me “faith in Bill” means a lot of different things to different people.
If we expect tourney success next year, I think we are going to be pretty disappointed, unless we believe Self can hit a portal homerun, and i dont think we can expect it in 2 years if he doesnt get a couple more high level athletes , be it from portal or high school.
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@kjayhawks He wouldn’t start at any other program but KS. Proof is in the pudding these last 2 years
Bill’s son got favoritism - not shocked
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He needs to go.
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It’s time
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Is Bill planning on making changes to the coaching staff or is he going to keep the staff the same. If he’s not changing the staff, that’s a big problem at this point because it sounds like it’s going to cost him at least two current players in Flory and Passmore.
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@BShark said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
It’s time
Dang from you even…wooffff
Flory thing did you in…just wait until DP flips last minute and @FarmerJayhawk can’t believe it
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It has been tough to watch the last few years. The play on the court has been a big drop off. The Juan stuff and now Flory has really burned.
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Who would be top target to replace?
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@RockkChalkk said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
Who would be top target to replace?
Every assistant but KT at this point is expendable to me.
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Well dam, Said I had a bad feeling when asked about his future and he said he would have to talk with his people
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Retaining Flory was frankly all I cared about. What a disaster. Seriously doubt we have the infrastructure or the momentum to build a competitive roster for next year, or the one after.
Go, Bill.
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Flory’s camp absolutely messed this up. What a clown car.
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Heard they are meeting w/staff tmrw.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
Heard they are meeting w/staff tmrw.
Flory camp? Or, just a staff meeting? Who is meeting with staff?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
Flory’s camp absolutely messed this up. What a clown car.
Agreed
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@DCHawker said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in What does “faith in Bill” mean?:
Heard they are meeting w/staff tmrw.
Flory camp? Or, just a staff meeting? Who is meeting with staff?
Flory’s rat bag of a guardian
