Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster
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@approxinfinity he struggles defending taller posts and struggles keeping guards in front of him. The improvement on his shot was very noticeable this past season but a long ways from me saying he is very good at shooting from inside the arc. To each their own brother
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@kjayhawks alright, thats fair. I think our assessment of his defense was higher going into the season than at season’s end. Hopefully he won’t be asked to guard behemoths, and hopefully we won’t have to switch everything next year?
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@Zabudda said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
Another post about my grand nephew he was just selected by the Jets in the 5th round. 6’1" 220 rb. Isaiah Davis. Hope he makes it good.
Cool. Best of luck!
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@approxinfinity said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
and hopefully we won’t have to switch everything next year?
Switching everything seems like a regular part of any Self defense now. Maybe in the off-season he can scheme up a way to keep Hunter in the paint?
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@rockchalkjayhawk or bend his knees and move his feet
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@FarmerJayhawk Any reason why we wouldn’t start our best starting 5 and only finish with it???
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There’s plenty of precedent for Self starting more experienced players and finishing with someone else. Russ Rob comes to mind but I think there have been others through the years.
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Let me quote a Coach Self phrase " Doesn’t matter who starts the game "-- Who is out there at the end of the game when it’s all on the line.— Who cares WHO STARTS ! ! !
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If Storr rebounds and defends like he did at Wisconsin last year, it will be VERY interesting to see if Self will keep him in the game late over KJ.
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@focojayhawk What do you think of Storr coming knowing the Badgers like you do?
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If people were frustrated with the defense last season, then I’ve got some bad news because the defense won’t be better next season.
All the transfers Self brought in this season are somewhere between below average to they make Nick Timberlake look good on defense. Griffin was a part of a defense that was sub 100 in Kenpom’s defensive ratings. Zeke Mayo couldn’t keep up with Summit League players on defense so that won’t be better, and the day AJ Storr puts effort into playing some defense will be the first time in his career.
That’s on top of what we already know about Dickinson’s defensive abilities.
Elmarko has the tools to be a good defender so hopefully that part of his game starts to come together and McDowell needs to get better on offense so he’s playable for longer stretches.
This is why I’ll always say that a strong defense is more important than a strong offense. A strong defense with a weak offense will keep you in more games when the offense is off than a team with a strong offense, but weak defense when the offense is off. That said, you have to be really good at both, generally top 15 in Kenpom’s offensive and defensive ratings to be a serious title contender. The anomalies in those rankings for title teams are teams that were strong defensively, but not as strong offensively.
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Don’t forget KJ went in to play D at the end of our National Champ. game, as a frosh. Killed it.
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@jayballer67 Players care trust me….
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Wanna take any bets this team with this worse defense and better offense goes further than the round of 32 (than the team we just had 2023-2024 that you claim is better on defense)………
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wanna take any bets this team with this worse defense and better offense goes further than the round of 32 (than the team we just had 2023-2024 that you claim is better on defense)………
Yes, I do think another early flame out next season is more likely than a deep run in the tournament because I believe this defense next season is going to be the worst ranked defense of the Bill Self era which is currently the 2018 team that was 47th in adjusted defensive efficiency.
Since KenPom began in 2002, the teams with a sub 50 adjusted defensive efficiency to reach the Final Four are Marquette in 2003 (109), VCU in 2011 (78), Miami in 2023 (99), and Alabama in 2024 (111). Meanwhile, teams ranked sub 50 in offensive efficiency are LSU (62) and George Mason (66) in 2006, Louisville (112) in 2012, Syracuse (50) in 2016, South Carolina (91) in 2017, Loyola-Chicago (63) in 2018, San Diego St. (75).
So again, I stand by my statement that a team has a better chance to make a deep/Final Four run with a subpar offense than subpar defense because that’s what history tells us.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 our best defensive lineup would be… dajuan, elmarko/jamari, rylen, kj, flory? Might we preserve a lead with that?
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These new guys picked Self and KU for a reason. There’s enough depth they’re gonna learn to play D or somebody who wants to play will step up and take their place.
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@approxinfinity I think it’s a lil early to tell yet.
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@jayballer67 Players care trust me….
Those are not very valued words that come from thy mouth Sparky- - -yet your right, I would trust you – Trust you about as far as I can throw you roflmao
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@approxinfinity said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@Texas-Hawk-10 our best defensive lineup would be… dajuan, elmarko/jamari, rylen, kj, flory? Might we preserve a lead with that?
When the best projected defensive line up still has 2 below average defenders in Jackson and Griffen, that’s not something that’s instills much confidence this team can get stops when they have to.
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@wissox I don’t think it’s a great fit. There will undoubtedly be some crazy highlights where KU fans will love him. I also think that more often there will be times when Self and fans just shake their heads at shot selection, ball handling and non-existent defense. Storr also totally disappeared in some big moments…especially in March.
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Griffen will be okay defensively but it will take time. Alabama didn’t even try to play defense but Griffen has the physical tools to do so. I trust Self to get it out of him.
A lot less hope for Zeke and Storr on that end.
Overall defense and rebounding are concerns as of right now.
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For more on the Griffen situation consider Dalton Knecht. Different player obviously but graded out as a horrible defender at Northern Colorado. ended up being an okay defender on an elite defensive team in Tennessee. Obviously a lot of variables, especially considering how bad Hunter is on D but still something to think about.
I’m probably agreeing with @kuballin10 here but I’d much rather have offensive talent for Self to figure out the defense with than the other way around. The end of shot clock stuff was SO BRUTAL last year because we had no creators.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 same stats can be utilized for teams that win it all or make the final 4 are top offensive teams.
I’ll tell u this we have a better chance of getting to the sweet 16 with this years upcoming roster versus the crap we rolled out there last year (that’s including a healthy Kev).
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@Texas-Hawk-10 same stats can be utilized for teams that win it all or make the final 4 are top offensive teams.
I’ll tell u this we have a better chance of getting to the sweet 16 with this years upcoming roster versus the crap we rolled out there last year (that’s including a healthy Kev).
No fucking shit it takes a good offense AND defense to when a title. Your head is so far up Dan Hurley’s ass right now about his offense that you’re ignoring Self over-correcting last year’s issues to bring in a bunch of transfers that can’t play defense.
You claim Self can make someone like AJ Storr a better defensive player, but still shit all over Harris and Adams defensive abilities when they’ve been in the system for 4 years now. So based on your own logic, it sounds like Self sucks at developing defensive players, but yet you think he’s going to make 3/4 guys who are coming to KU as terrible defenders and suddenly make them play good defense? That logic isn’t logicing there on that one.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what round KU loses in because people will continue to whine about another preseason top 5 KU team not winning a title or reaching the Final Four and you’ll continue making the same lazy ass posts about Dejuan and KJ all season because there’s three things you live for. One is shitting on Dejuan, two is sitting on KJ, and three is worshipping the ground Dan Hurley walks on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m obsessed with Hurley? I see my post you quoted and didn’t mention a thing about him as we are talking about Self. You seem to be the one that he’s gets to you because of what he’s accomplished as you just had two paragraphs bringing his name up.
D2 can’t guard his man one on one but he’s an A team defense guy. KJ is a stud defender in the post and one on one but can’t rebound worth crap (go hang out with Barkley this off-season).
AJ storr is a legit athlete and one I think Bill can teach to defend same for Griffen. Your analyzing these guys defensively on other teams and building up how great Bill is defensively but then claiming how bad this team will be (as if Bill won’t idk maybe be better than their previous coaches on D).
Bill won’t ever change he guards inside out first and plays inside out on O. That’s who he is and he ain’t changing that anytime soon.
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m obsessed with Hurley? I see my post you quoted and didn’t mention a thing about him as we are talking about Self. You seem to be the one that he’s gets to you because of what he’s accomplished as you just had two paragraphs bringing his name up.
D2 can’t guard his man one on one but he’s an A team defense guy. KJ is a stud defender in the post and one on one but can’t rebound worth crap (go hang out with Barkley this off-season).
AJ storr is a legit athlete and one I think Bill can teach to defend same for Griffen. Your analyzing these guys defensively on other teams and building up how great Bill is defensively but then claiming how bad this team will be (as if Bill won’t idk maybe be better than their previous coaches on D).
Bill won’t ever change he guards inside out first and plays inside out on O. That’s who he is and he ain’t changing that anytime soon.
Well, you clearly know nothing of my history on this site with KJ Adams if that’s what you think I believe about him. FYI, people here got as sick of me calling KJ the worst rebounding big ever as they are of your Dejuan shit. KJ can spend the whole offseason with Barkley and he’s still going to be the worst rebounder ever because he has short arms.
I’m also not building up Self as the greatest defensive coach ever either, despite what you think. I said plenty of times last season that the defense sucked ass, especially after McCullar got hurt, and I’m gonna keep saying the defense is gonna be worse next season because Self brought in 4 transfers, if they all come here, who have never played any defense in their lives, or just flat out suck at defense because they’re not good athletes.
The worst defensive team of the Self era statistically is the 2018 Final Four team, this team is getting ready to make that team look like the 2008 team on defense.
So guess what, you’re gonna as sick of me saying the defense next season is going to be a steaming pile of shit as everyone else is of your Harris takes.
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Maybe more of an indictment on college basketball but last year’s defense finished 20th on KP. I would agree it had clear problems.
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…because there’s three things you live for. One is shitting on Dejuan, two is sitting on KJ, and three is worshipping the ground Dan Hurley walks on.
Yeah dude, Juan isn’t a toilet and KJ isn’t a chair.
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Well, one milestone passed with the portal closing. Sounds like two off-season hurdles remain: Kugel and Furphy.
That could end up a straight switcharoo if the chaos continues.
I’m pretty surprised that Clemence is still here. Semi surprised that McDowell remains. And actually more than surprised that Elmarko stayed put.
They must have something on Self and a cheerleader.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
Well, one milestone passed with the portal closing. Sounds like two off-season hurdles remain: Kugel and Furphy.
That could ended up a straight switcharoo if the chaos continues.
I’m pretty surprised that Clemence is still here. Semi surprised that McDowell remains. And actually more than surprised that Elmarko stayed put.
They must have something on Self and a cheerleader.
Other topics here have indicated the light may have come on for Clemence finally both on and off the court. Elmarko was basically told by KJ’s family to nut up or shut up and he chose to nut up amd earn it. Jamari I’m genuinely surprised by unless the plan is to keep him off the ball. Also, I’m sure KU’s NIL package played no small part in Elmarko and Jamari’s decisions as well as KU is typically near top of college basketball for NIL deals.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’ll have to see Clemence to believe it.
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@rockchalkjayhawk I think Elmarko staying makes a lot of sense as long as he is ok with staying for 2 years. Probably getting more NiL at KU than most places, gets to learn under a great coach, and has no current competition for starting PG next year (and if that last point changes, he could always transfer next year)
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Defense! Great subject! I earned my keep on defense. “Game plan - within first-minute knee cap your opponent and accept whatever the ref gives you. After that, it’s easy money!” From 8th grade, I never played a game without a cup or mouthpiece. lol
It’s hard not to listen to @Texas-Hawk-10 being pessimistic about this team. So many apparent weak defensive players and we don’t have the post swatter to equalize things. Hunter is maybe the worst footer we’ve ever had on defense. If the coaches can get a 10% defensive improvement out of him, we will probably win 2 -3 more games during the year.
I think Self overcompensated focusing only on trey shooting stats in the portal. I’m amazed he abandoned his claim to be a defensive-minded coach. At least I get to watch all the McCullar critics crap their britches next year when we don’t have him playing monster man.
If ever there was a reason for Self to convert to zone in November… it is this year. Come on, Bill! You proved the critics wrong when you modified your hi-lo and embraced a 4-1 offense.
Anyone want to bet the over/under, us versus opponents free throw totals next year? We need all these guards because we are going to have serious foul issues.
If Self doesn’t like my zone idea… how about he builds this team as a pressing team. Mask our weaknesses by trying to exhaust our opponents. Go from running 8 guys to running 11 or 12. There have been a lot of teams that suck at half-court defense but improved their stats by pressing.
I hope Juan isn’t played 38+ minutes per game this year. I’m starting to think his exhaustion is cumulative over the years.
I love KJ… but he really needs to toughen up. All those muscles on such a polite player. If he could become an alpha defender, I’d upgrade my current team defense projection up from “sucks” to “respectable.” He should be watching Dennis Rodman tape all summer to learn how to rebound and defend.
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@drgnslayr i’ll bet dennis rodmans wingspan was a foot larger
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Actually i think rodmans was 7’3 and kj’s is about 6’9
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@drgnslayr the worse defender ever, dedric Lawson. Drove me nuts.
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Funny @dylans I was hoping Self would adapt that “knee cap” em philosophy with Bidunga. Just bring him in and let him go ape shit for a few minutes. Totally agree with your first few minutes philosophy!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Young Perry Ellis just needed a cape and he could’ve been a matador too. (Not Dedrick bad, but sheesh.)
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@dylans said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@Crimsonorblue22 Young Perry Ellis just needed a cape and he could’ve been a matador too. (Not Dedrick bad, but sheesh.)
When was Perry ever a good defender?
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@drgnslayr You know who wouldn’t be too arrogant to play zone if it means a title……?
We will never shoot as many free throws as our opponents because d2 isn’t a downhill straight line driver of the ball. He’s a ball swinger/rotator he doesn’t attack. 4 years of what he’s been that won’t change.
This team will D up better because it has athletes the question is if Bill plays them.
He will play Juan and Hunter two poor defenders and if Clemence the clod hopper gets more run than Flory we will have major issues guarding ball screens again.
Either way offensively we will be extremely difficult to stop which will help us on the defensive side where we don’t have to be perfect but after a few missed shots we can go on a 12-1 run quickly.
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@drgnslayr You know who wouldn’t be too arrogant to play zone if it means a title……?
Bill Self? Didn’t he do that in portions of both his title runs?!?
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@dylans negative ghostrider but good guess….
Bills stubborn he doesn’t change up his core philosophies
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
When was Perry ever a good defender?
Somewhere toward the end of his 9th year here, I think.
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@kuballin10 If you have a chance re-watch some KU tournament games with an open mind and in the rare occasion zone is used it’s mostly the 2/3 and once I believe the box-1 thrown was out there. Don’t remember any this year though.
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@kuballin10 said in Keeping track of the ever changing 24-25 roster:
@dylans negative ghostrider but good guess….
Bills stubborn he doesn’t change up his core philosophies
When Bill trusts his team defensively he employs many types of defenses. I don’t think the team last year every got to the point where they could do the easy stuff well enough for him to even attempt to implement anything more sophisticated.
The most notorious example is the triangle and 2. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone else run that but it has been a staple late in the year when KU needed to put the kibosh on a couple of guys going off. It won us some key games late in regular seasons to get the big 12 title and was a staple of the 08 team and made a few appearances in each of the final four runs.
Those years he also would drop in a 2/3 zone from time to time as well. I think particularly in 08 there was also a 3/2 with B rush playing at the top of the key.
I do think Self has a bit of rigidity in that he wants guys to earn it playing man to man before letting them play zone. But if it is a big game that matters, he WILL play whatever will give him the best chance to win. But him be willing to play zone or not is more a reflection of his trust in his players to execute the plan rather than of his willingness to be flexible philosophically.
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Sometimes coach puts Juan on a hot shooter just to deny him the ball. Juan also has quick hands and a very hi bb IQ. Last yrs team couldn’t be taught any special defenses! I was taught early on if you can’t move your feet on man, don’t think playing a zone is going to be easier! You don’t just stand in an area.
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Wow - no transfers out! Other than Philon de-committing… what a difference from last year…
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Current likely depth chart. Positions a bit murky.
PG Harris — Elmarko
SG Storr — Mayo — Passmore — McDowell
SF Griffen — Passmore
PF KJ — Clemence
C Dickinson — Bidunga — Clemence
Main Bench: Mayo — Passmore — Elmarko — Bidunga
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I think McDowell likely beats out Passmore for bench minutes unless Self wants to redshirt him.
