Hog Wild Game Thread
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@approxinfinity said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
Seriously, a top 5 coach ever missing and the heads dont even mention it in their post game analysis.
The talking heads also said that Musselman really knows how to coach.
Losing credibility as an analyst.
Whether you like him or not, Eric Musselman is a very good college coach. The only year heās missed the NCAA Tournament was his first season at Nevada, and even then he won the CBI, and heās taken Arkansas to back to back Elite 8ās.
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Well, Selfās post-season banāerāleave is over. Now maybe we get final resolution on all of this alleged crap and can move on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Eric is a better coach than Norm is no question
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@kjayhawks said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Eric is a better coach than Norm is no question
Had a lot of help from an inept crew. What podunk league were they from anyway?
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@bskeet refs didnāt miss FTs and get a 10 second call up 4 with 2 minutes to go. Bad crew but they were even.
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Refs not to blame for this game. We gave up 45 points in the second half. We missed FTs (esp. front-ends) and they made theirs. RBs were even at the half - they dominated in the 2d half, esp. with ORBs - ended up with 10 more shots. 3 TOs on Udehās illegal screens. End of half and late game execution was not typical - hate to lay that on coaching, butā¦there is a reason HCBS has the record he does in games decided by less than 5 points. Adds up to a loss in a game that was eminently winnable, even if not playing that wellā¦
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@kjayhawks said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Eric is a better coach than Norm is no question
Had a lot of help from an inept crew. What podunk league were they from anyway?
There were some questionable calls, but KU missed a bunch of FTās, including the front end of several 1 and 1ās, and Norm made zero adjustments on Davis in the second half.
Thereās a reason why Norm hasnāt gotten another head coaching job since he was fired from St. Johnās.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 this we see similar. Norm is a great dude and almost perfect assistant to CS imo. But not a great HC. And not an HC at all anymore for good reason. But also not the reason, definitely not the sole reason we lost this game.
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Joe Lindsay - SEC
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Courtney Green - Big 10
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Marques Pettigrew - American, Big East, and others.
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@kjayhawks said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@bskeet refs didnāt miss FTs and get a 10 second call up 4 with 2 minutes to go. Bad crew but they were even.
That 10 second call was marginal. They also called 5 seconds that was marginal.
Meanwhile, Arkansas guys were stepping on the back line all the timeā¦ Not to mention all the wrapping, holding, pushing and other illegal contact. Then they call illegal screen twice and WTH was that double technical?
Not a masterpiece. KU didnāt play great, but they were disadvantaged largely because of horrible officiating in the first half and selective calls in the second half.
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@bskeet we can argue all evening I suppose but the players and coaches have to have accountability if the refs do itās only fair. The zebras donāt miss shots, passes or forget to switch leading to wide open layup (think that happened 5 times today). Thatās the KSU way of thinking IMO. Too good to lose on their own accord.
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@kjayhawks said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@bskeet refs didnāt miss FTs and get a 10 second call up 4 with 2 minutes to go. Bad crew but they were even.
That 10 second call was marginal. They also called 5 seconds that was marginal.
Meanwhile, Arkansas guys were stepping on the back line all the timeā¦ Not to mention all the wrapping, holding, pushing and other illegal contact. Then they call illegal screen twice and WTH was that double technical?
Not a masterpiece. KU didnāt play great, but they were disadvantaged largely because of horrible officiating in the first half and selective calls in the second half.
Stop with the blaming the refs. All 3 moving screens on Udeh were good calls. Udeh moved too early on the first one and was late to his spot on the other two. The 10 second call was also a good call. Thatās not a judgment call, Harris was slow bringing the ball up, that was purely on Harris, and not the first time Harris has turned it over like that because of a lack of awareness.
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Bottom line is & itās simple. We can ty to make all the excuses you want - -try to find things but the bottom line is really simple.
Even if Jalen & Kevin hit the FRONT END of their one and one free throws - - not even hitting the back end of these - -yet if Jalen & Kevin hit the front end of those- - thatās TWO more points and we win - PERIOD pllain and simple, you hit your freebies - -you win
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Ok. Community has spoken.
Hereās what Iāve got: Yesufuās 40ft 3pt shot was nice.
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@kjayhawks uninspired D second half leads to fouls, leads to more uninspired D(cause you cant/foul trouble) pretty simple equation for musselman. The entirety of existence knows our bench canāt hack it. Still with that? Hit your FTās. Try to guardā¦ rebound. Idk. Perfect storm of shittiness
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@bskeet if on positive notes, KJ was great in limited minutes and stepped up from the line.
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Yeah when we talk about this team not being athletic, sure as a team. But i think KJ may be the 3rd best athlete Self has ever had behind wiggins and embiid
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I actually think Udeh is stupidly athletic. He just needs time/growth
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@Texas-Hawk-10 that wasnāt 10 secs
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@bskeet One was a BIG ref that does a lot of Badger games.
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@Crimsonorblue22 @Texas-Hawk-10 I thought it was a good call, so I went back to check. Here are two pictures of the call. In both, the shot clock is showing 20 seconds (but doesnāt show tenths of a second). Harrisās feet are both clearly in the backcourt in the first picture, and his left foot is clearly down in the front court in the second (and the ref is starting to signal the violation). But the shot clock is still showing 20 seconds.
Time obviously elapsed as he stepped over the line. If 20 is showing, I assume it means a few tenths more than 20 are left, and thus less than 10 have elapsed before that foot was down.
So the ref was wrong, by a few tenths perhaps. But it is really so close, and coaches never want a player to let a ref make that call.
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@cragarhawk said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
I actually think Udeh is stupidly athletic. He just needs time/growth
Iām sure the college kids can find some sorta drink game based on how quickly Udeh fouls when he gets in the game! ha. I like his energy. Heās just a young big. Sasha was a fouling machine for nearly four years, so time to grow.
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Well, a strange boxscore today. You could glance and think KU would have won. Higher FG%, more 3s made. Both good signs.
But a closer looks tells the story IMO.
Arkansas took 8 more shots than KU.
Arkansas had a big advantage on offensive boards ā 15-7.
And those stats likely lead to the difference in the game: 2nd chance points ā 15-2.
Arkansas also outrebounded KU 36-29.
Damn! iām still pissed!
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And i admit i need to go back to watch the final few possessions of the game, but WTF happened??? Why did Jalen choose to go for a 2 pt basket when we were down 3 with seconds to go??? Did they intentionally foul us up top before a shot could be taken?
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@mayjay I wanted to see when they started the clock.
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@rockchalkjayhawk yep thatās the most frustrating part for me as the famous coach Green quote āThey were who we thought they were and we let them get awayā Iāve been saying all day they lived on the offensive glass and we did good in the first half. The intensity just wasnāt the same after the first 5 minutes of the second half. Guys standing and watching. Maybe the most maddening part is their one free throw miss was huge bonus for them. Iāve watched that play 5 times Juan and KJ both just stood there not reacting to the miss. Both guys had a better angle but didnāt move towards the ball! You have to attack the ball and go get it.
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@kjayhawks I literally said to my Dad we better rebound this heās missing the second oneā¦.and KJ and Joe couldnāt get it done as Walshās 8 foot arms somehow made a play
That was the biggest play in my opinion. We rebound it and have ball down 1 with what 39 secondsā¦.or less we were sitting pretty
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@rockchalkjayhawk Bill does same thing takes 2ās as long as you can and itās stupid. Your banking on quick free 2, them maybe missing a free throw but if not your back down 3 same position with less time to get a shot
Like nfl and passing caught up via analytics eventually these idiot coaches and announcers will say shoot the 3 with 15 seconds left. You put yourself in a position where you flat out just need to hit a big shot otherwise 9/10 you will lose doing the quick 2, foul and hope they miss crap
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Anything can happen vs any team within a point or 2 with a minute or less to go. Those games happen. Sometimes when they shouldnāt. This was a shouldnāt. It never should have been that close to have to worry about it. Thatās just the truth and we all know it. Players know it, coaches know it. It sucks. But itās not gonna change
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Tick tick tickā¦ Thats the sound of the clock, ticking down till the fall of 2023 when a new season startsā¦ sigh Such a long wait.
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@kuballin10 said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk Bill does same thing takes 2ās as long as you can and itās stupid. Your banking on quick free 2, them maybe missing a free throw but if not your back down 3 same position with less time to get a shot
Like nfl and passing caught up via analytics eventually these idiot coaches and announcers will say shoot the 3 with 15 seconds left. You put yourself in a position where you flat out just need to hit a big shot otherwise 9/10 you will lose doing the quick 2, foul and hope they miss crap
The reason to go for the quick 2 is because it creates more possessions which increases the chances of an opponent screwing up. Shooting a desperation 3 early thatās likely to miss and create a long rebound and runout for the opponent.
Extending games as long as possible does maximize the winning percentage. Every coach is going to have their personal preference on when you need to change the thought process and take the desperation 3. I donāt know the analytics on it, but itās probably somewhere around the 10 second mark, but thereās going to be other variables involved such as timeouts left, foul issues, and stuff like that. The analytics are also why Self doesnāt foul up 3 with under 5 seconds left because not fouling has a slightly higher winning % than fouling does.
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@kuballin10 I thought Joe knocked it out of kjās (?) hands when he shouldāve been blocking out the thrower.
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I see folks say that Norm is a great assistant coach. What no one says is what they specifically find to be good about his coaching. What does Norm actually bring to the table? He doesnāt seem to be a big recruiter. He is certainly not head coach material - very little in game adjustments, no use of timeouts during an 11-0 run, etc. the evidence of him being a poor head coach is overwhelming by both record and eye test; what does he bring as an assistant?
I honestly never gave Norm much thought before his interim spat, but try as I might I canāt come up with what he brings to the table. Past assistants we could see what they did - Manning was good with bigs. Dooley was good at defensive principles. Snacks procured things. Townson is the bag man. Case seems to be a good recruiter and guards coach.
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@dylans said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
I see folks say that Norm is a great assistant coach. What no one says is what they specifically find to be good about his coaching. What does Norm actually bring to the table? He doesnāt seem to be a big recruiter. He is certainly not head coach material - very little in game adjustments, no use of timeouts during an 11-0 run, etc. the evidence of him being a poor head coach is overwhelming by both record and eye test; what does he bring as an assistant?
I honestly never gave Norm much thought before his interim spat, but try as I might I canāt come up with what he brings to the table. Past assistants we could see what they did - Manning was good with bigs. Dooley was good at defensive principles. Snacks procured things. Townson is the bag man. Case seems to be a good recruiter and guards coach.
Kurtis in addition to recruiting is also our shot doctor iirc
Norm recruits well. Pulled Zuby (a Nike kid with offers from TX and Ark) and got our foot in the door with Elmarko for Bill to close. I think Billās personal involvement and not banging the drum at Arrowhead to make sure we got Elmarko says a lot. Never know until they get here but I think he is starter good from the jump. The other two current 23 commits not so much. Those are just recent examples. Historically Norm was key with Embiid, Dotson, Oubre etc
Case is on his way to being an elite recruiter, potentially. Very hard worker. Was big in locking up Chris Johnson early, took McDowell away from Wake Forest at the 11th hour while slow rolling a bit previously. Doing massive work in the 24 class.
I donāt have major complaints with our coaching staff. Very short list of guys Iād take and make room for. Bryan Hodgson might be the entire list and I think he is on his way to a HC job.
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I somewhat agree. I think wilson around that screen had the potential to shoot a 3 instead of drive. I think everyone gets the reasoning for the quick 2 etc. also I think weāve all seen people force a bad 3 point look. Generally speaking I agree though under 15 second you should go 3 if you can get that look. I donāt know how many times they say get the quick 2 but itās not always that easy. The guy misses an awkward drive or it takes too long to get that quick 2. Or they get fouled and miss the free throws from the driveā¦ā¦Ku in general did run the play correctly. Hereās the thing though after you make the shot/free throws, you canāt just let the star player whose made a ton of free throws just catch the ball so easily. Bc you essentially are giving them back the two points. After wilson Made his free throw. Without having to be freed up on a screen their best player just caught the ball so quickly. Poor execution by ku!!!..ā¦ in my feeling with this team they should have gone 3 to tie but oh wellā¦ā¦ also not subbing in a second big on that crucial missed rebound on the free throw near the end was frustrating
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@dylans @BShark i agree, though have followed much less of who is involved with whom, that Norm is a good piece of the puzzle and our staff is complete and solid. I didnt feel that way after Danny left before Dooley returned,. Our staff is giving Bill everything he needs right now. It was just very bad luck Bill had to be out.
And, I have enjoyed the fact we didnt have to find some fault in our head coach this year, as much as I didnt want to lose.
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@approxinfinity said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@dylans @BShark i agree, though have followed much less of who is involved with whom, that Norm is a good piece of the puzzle and our staff is complete and solid. I didnt feel that way after Danny left before Dooley returned. Our staff is giving Bill everything he needs right now. It was just very bad luck Bill had to be out.
And, I have enjoyed the fact we didnt have to find some fault in our head coach this year, as much as I didnt want to lose.
Bill out + Dajuan being hurt for the 2nd half were the keys to the loss.
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@BShark said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
Bill out + Dajuan being hurt for the 2nd half were the keys to the loss.
I am just amazed no one has mentioned our numerous stupid fouls. McCullar 80 ft from the basket gets his 4th, Udeh forgot how to set picks, KJ trying to body a guy away, Joe or Pettiford drives right into someone after passing for a layupā¦ Our freshman big seemed panicky, our POY wasnāt getting open. Way too many missed FTs. And our PG hobbled. Had to play Ejiafor and Zach, neither of whom could get anything done. Our backup little guards just ran around kind of mindlessly. 5 pts, 0 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal in 15 mins of PT.
During the entire game we seemed lost when Ark played like a longer version of Shakaās āHavocā team. We didnāt see that combo of size/length/agility and aggression in the Big 12. We actually got sped up and the fouls crippled our normal game. When DjH lost his go to guy KJ, he wasnāt able to find anyone who could make a basket. 1 assist for him in the 2nd half.
All the people saying Norm didnāt adjust in the 2nd halfā¦how would you know when the players make so many crucial mistakes?
Sometimes, like chess, the winner in bb is the one who makes the next to the last mistake.
All that saidā¦I loved this team for overachieving so entertainingly all year. All teams that lose have had issues bringing them down. I wonāt remember yesterday, though. I will remember the comebacks, the beaming smiles, the pride in a NC last year, and that type of thing. Yeah, we lost yesterdayā¦and the sun rose today and I got to see it for yet another day!
Rock chalk!
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp8wopFrUuA/?igshid=MGU3ZTQzNzY=
Iāve never seen this whack before by a coach.
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@kuballin10 said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@bskeet dude is an @$&hat
I donāt want him anywhere near our program
Classless
Really? Come on. We donāt need such sanctimony here. Iām venting. Doesnāt mean Iām classless.
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@bskeet I spent 5 mins trying to figure out who the hell he was talking about, since people have said such things to him causing great distress, but then I gave up.
Itās what I mean by turning on each other, which is really more like watching a couple drunks get into a bar fight.
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@mayjay Agree. This community is a place where we can celebrate, pontificate and occasionally wax polemic.
No need to take things out on each other.
Iām just a frustrated fan. I donāt think I was alone yesterday. No one wants to be alone when they are disappointed. We should be able to come here and lean on each other a bit.
I backed off the criticism of the officiating when folks nudged. That was helpful.
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@kuballin10 said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@bskeet dude is an @$&hat
I donāt want him anywhere near our program
Classless
Really? Come on. We donāt need such sanctimony here. Iām venting. Doesnāt mean Iām classless.
The comment was about Arkansas coach not @bskeet
Sorry @bskeet if it came across towards you. You are good in my book not that anyone cares
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āI care!ā --Luke Skywalker
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@kuballin10 Thank you so much for clarifying that. Hey, I care!
We agree 100% about Musselman. The shirtless antics are not a great look for an institution of higher learning.
What will he do when he wins a really meaningful game?
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
are not a great look for an institution of higher learning
Or even one like Arkansas.
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@bskeet said in Hog Wild Game Thread:
@kuballin10 Thank you so much for clarifying that. Hey, I care!
We agree 100% about Musselman. The shirtless antics are not a great look for an institution of higher learning.
What will he do when he wins a really meaningful game?
Haha no clue what he will do but guarantee you he wonāt drop his drawers because nobody wants to see that
I love our coaches and their class. Bill would never do that even when he was younger and Leipold would never do what the idiot fball coach at mu did at the ball game
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Has Bill Self released a statement about the game or had an interview? Canāt find oneā¦
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Probably with the teamā¦ but yeah, itās been quiet.
