Mark Adams Resigns
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@BShark It is a nice excuse to fire him with cause and save 7million. This is the way.
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@dylans Ehhh. The Fardaws kid was actually public about possibly leaving but he wasn’t the only one. This stuff doesn’t happen with good coaches. As hard ass as Self is, he cares about the guys and most of them know it.
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The spitting thing is ridiculous. And who knows what all else. And who knows how he really said that to the kid or kids. There’s definitely ways it could have been said that should end with his firing.
I do kind of hate that all this comes out on the heals of a “less than stellar” season for them and maybe they need the excuse? Idk. Sometimes those things just appear that way
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@cragarhawk said in Mark Adams Suspended:
The spitting thing is ridiculous. And who knows what all else. And who knows how he really said that to the kid or kids. There’s definitely ways it could have been said that should end with his firing.
I do kind of hate that all this comes out on the heals of a “less than stellar” season for them and maybe they need the excuse? Idk. Sometimes those things just appear that way
Yea, I will agree this does have a bit of a “Mangino firing” stench to it. If they were a top 5 seed in the NCAA tourney, does he keep his job? Maybe. Maybe not.
I’m not out there looking, but if players aren’t sticking up for him publicly I think that’ll say a lot about who he is as a coach and person.
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I’ve kinda wondered if his days there were numbered about half way thru the conference season.
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@cragarhawk said in Mark Adams Suspended:
Ya the problem is people are looking for reasons. There’s a difference between reciting that. And saying directly to a black or any color individual (this is not a race thing) “You’re my slave, and I’m your master”. Then? Absolutely
The idea that we’ve had such a dumbing down in the generations that people can no longer reason the difference there on their own without getting offended or canceling a syrup is just disturbing
This is an extremely tone deaf comment that shows your ignorance of southern history in the US and why Adams comments are problematic and why Aunt Jemima is problematic.
An older white man referring to master and slave to a young black man is extremely problematic because even if it wasn’t intended in a racial context, it still shows incredibly poor cultural awareness on Adams part.
Aunt Jemima was also problematic because she was based on a minstrel show character. If you’re not familiar with minstel shows, they frequently portrayed black characters, played by white people in blackface with extremely exaggerated features, in a very racist manner during the early years of the Jim Crow Era. Aunt Jemima was based on the “mammy” stereotype that was very common in these minstrel shows.
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@Kcmatt7 Bad guys do read that to their wives. But we also read 5:25 which tells us to love our wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. It’s literally telling me to die for my wife. So people saying the Bible is sexist because of 5:22 don’t even read on to what husbands are to be.
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I agree on the he’s tone deaf argument being used against him. Without context of the entire conversation will we really know exactly what and how it was said? Did he preface it with ‘well don’t get me wrong here but there’s a verse…’? IDK. But then you add on did he spit on someone and then told them he’s allowed to? That’s crazy talk. But again there’s some context that we may never know even in that one. Was it an accident (like he claims) and the player said something and he said, ‘i’m your coach I can spit on you whenever I want to’ in a joking manner. Because I’m really trying to wrap my mind around a coach in 2023 telling a kid he’s allowed to spit on him.
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I mean basically by that logic(considering at the moment we don’t know the context) every preacher on the south who has ever read those verses with a person of color in the worship hall is guilty of racism and ignorance and should be fired. I mean let’s go a step further, shall we? How about if any people there are of Irish decent? Or Arab? Anything other than black considering they weren’t the only people to ever be slaves?
Aunt Jemima never hurt a damn soul until someone went looking for a reason. Personally idgaf. I prefer Mrs Butterworth anyway.
The point is. It takes nothing in this time period. No matter the person, the place, the color, the name If you go looking for a reason you’ll always find it.
But if you go looking for reason, you seldom will.
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Context is definitely king but I’d love to hear the context where it is appropriate for a white coach to use such a verse.
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I have so many questions. Do they usually quote scripture? Was it normal? I know Baylor is a Christian school, but quite a few schools pray. I think J will leads prayer for us. We have Wayne for counseling. Kevin might know if this is normal. The passage is out of line, but working with these kids he should know that. Spitting is hard to believe, just gross.
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@Crimsonorblue22 that’s actually a very good point. I mean idk how devout the guy is or isn’t. Does he frequently use scripture in his coaching? Or hardly at all, or never… And actually just went and found this set of verses to use? If so, of course that is F’d up.
Otherwise? Meh… Are we discussing this if Tang said these verses to his team?
It being singled out to one kid kind of bugs me if that was the case, which is how I’m taking it. Idk. Just don’t wanna jump straight to the conclusion it was wrong not knowing the answers to these questions
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@cragarhawk You want a shovel for that hole you keep digging? You’re not helping yourself with post. All it’s doing is letting your cultural ignorance shine bright.
And I will absolutely say with 100% definitiveness as a white basketball coach that coaches a majority black team that there are words and phrases I cannot say without risking my job because of the racial undertones and connotations of certain phrases in the South. To not understand that because of having never lived or spent a significant amount of time in the South is one thing, but to dismiss it as a non-issue because it doesn’t have a direct impact on you and your life is straight up ignorance on your part.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 well I think it’s all just people’s reasoning to be offended and call others ignorant.
So we can agree to disagree and I don’t even have to call you any names over it. Ya see, it’s a great thing we used to have a right to do in this nation. Disagree without the other person having to be anything other than “in disagreement”.
I’m never gonna think in any circumstances that’s okay for people to think this or that cant be said because someone is white, or black, or yellow, or green, or blue. In the same manner that I’m never gonna think it’s okay to assume a person of any color is a thug, or criminal, or what have you due to being whatever color that is. That entire idea does not 1 thing to promote the unity people of all cultures and colors have worked so hard for. It only creates more division. Done with you sir. Good day
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@cragarhawk said in Mark Adams Suspended:
@Texas-Hawk-10 well I think it’s all just people’s reasoning to be offended and call others ignorant.
So we can agree to disagree and I don’t even have to call you any names over it. Ya see, it’s a great thing we used to have a right to do in this nation. Disagree without the other person having to be anything other than “in disagreement”.
I’m never gonna think in any circumstances that’s okay for people to think this or that cant be said because someone is white, or black, or yellow, or green, or blue. In the same manner that I’m never gonna think it’s okay to assume a person of any color is a thug, or criminal, or what have you due to being whatever color that is. That entire idea does not 1 thing to promote the unity people of all cultures and colors have worked so hard for. It only creates more division. Done with you sir. Good day
Enjoy sounding like HEM then.
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Religion and politics should not be discussed at workplace in my opinion.
There is a saying that if you want to convert a friend into an enemy start discussing politics, and if that does not work start discussion religion.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 calling somebody names doesn’t make you any better!
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I liked HEM. Very objective and intelligent fella. Sorry to see he isn’t here anymore. Or hasn’t been looks like
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According to the quotes in the long Twitter feed in the orig post, he did NOT apologize. He said he quoted Ephesians to make the kid more receptive to coaching. A religious reference to slave/master hierarchy in order to get a student to obey his coach could conceivably be done without racial context, but not to a Black student in the US where slavery was based on race, and survival of Blacks for about 120 years after slavery still often depended on subservience and obedience.
@cragarhawk This wasn’t a preacher in a church. This was a white man in a position of power trying to get a Black kid to obey by analogizing their roles to slave and master. I cannot imagine anything he could do that could have been better designed to insult the kid.
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@mayjay oh absolutely if he means it in that way, as I said before. That’s really F’d up and he should probably not coach again.
Hard for me as a former coach(certainly not at that level) to believe a coach would purposely want to insult their players especially in a racial way. Most ppl I’ve known that coach, you fall in love with the kids. Love watching how they grow, etc. But there is evil allover the world and it comes in all shapes. So it is possible this is the situation here.
I’m just not gonna decide without more information that this is definitively the case because Adams is white. If others choose to do that, then that is their right as well.
Other tidbit I would add is this. Lay the rest of it aside. When you think someone doesn’t want to listen to you? More words aren’t generally going to convince them. Lol
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Mark Adams Suspended:
I have so many questions. Do they usually quote scripture? Was it normal? I know Baylor is a Christian school, but quite a few schools pray. I think J will leads prayer for us. We have Wayne for counseling. Kevin might know if this is normal. The passage is out of line, but working with these kids he should know that. Spitting is hard to believe, just gross.
Apparently their administration has lots of questions too. That’s why they they opened an investigation and he’s just suspended, not fired. Yet. But given the other issues that have come out, I suspect they will have a new head coach next season.
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@mayjay He refused to apologize for either of the publicly known incidents and none of his players are coming out in his defense. Not a good look that’s for sure.
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@BShark players not coming out in his defense yet is really bad
The university is certainly correct to suspend and investigate
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Calm before the fire!
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I’m shocked he’s that naive.
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@AsadZ said in Mark Adams Suspended:
Religion and politics should not be discussed at workplace in my opinion.
There is a saying that if you want to convert a friend into an enemy start discussing politics, and if that does not work start discussion religion.
thats a great point, for P5 bball players this is very much the workplace.
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@cragarhawk said in Mark Adams Suspended:
I liked HEM. Very objective and intelligent fella. Sorry to see he isn’t here anymore. Or hasn’t been looks like
lol
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@cragarhawk Just to clarify: I don’t think he intended to insult, but given the chance to back away from it he hasn’t. That always make you wonder if someone did have a bad intent, or is just abjectly stupid. Either way…
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@mayjay ya I’m surprised he hasn’t at the very least came out with a formal statement saying that wasnt the intention or apologizing for the insensitivity on the optics of it or something.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Mark Adams Suspended:
…but if players aren’t sticking up for him publicly I think that’ll say a lot about who he is as a coach and person.
Agree. In fact if they aren’t sticking up for him privately it says plenty.
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@cragarhawk said in Mark Adams Suspended:
I liked HEM. Very objective and intelligent fella. Sorry to see he isn’t here anymore. Or hasn’t been looks like
Something tells me he’s not too far away.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 come on man nothing that @cragarhawk said crosses any line. Attacking and insulting some one that has a different opinion is not okay and not progressive in any light. Stuff like that is why I took a few year break from the site. It’s okay to read something, disagree and move forward. You are better than that buddy.
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Alright, we’ve all said our piece. Lets move on from figuring out who is virtuous and who isn’t.
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Correction, I mean other than Mark Adams. Let’s definitely squeeze the juice out of that one.
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A link that makes the wording a lil more acceptable possibly. Idk yet. Still not sure what this “spitting” incident involved either
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This coach can believe and say what he wants to and his employer can protect itself when the coach has become a liability and opens the company up to possible damages.
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@BShark said in Mark Adams Suspended:
You can’t say master and slave to a black kid. Pretty cut and dry. I can’t get even slightly upset assuming he is fired.
You can’t say master and slave to anyone. Have to admit this Adams situation caught me off guard.
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The first thing that came to my mind was the gratefulness we have Self. His abilities beyond the court also make him a very special coach. I can look back at many of our past coaches, and none matched him speaking off the cuff (or even close). Going all the way back to Owens, each one of those coaches got into hot water on occasion.
I’m sad about this whole situation. When a Big 12 school faces something we all pay the price, too.
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I learned a long time ago that I had to try to see the perspective of others.
I have color in my skin and I grew up fighting (both physically and mentally) to defend myself from various kinds of assault. Through it all I learned to grow a thick skin while learning to empathize and have compassion for others. The result is I am very hard to offend and things bounce off of me today. I’m grateful for this strength.
However… just because I have my shield from things I realize other people may not. And I also realize this has nothing to do with anyone’s color. White people can be sensitive, too, including derogatory comments made to attack people of color.
Sometimes people slip up with no bad intention. The slip up can be rectified by communicating a mistake was made and a humble apology with it. Usually… it is what happens after the slip up that matters most. Most people will accept a real apology and communication of growth in awareness.
It is important to show humility in life. If I have offended anyone in here, I am truly sorry. It is never my intent to offend anyone.
See how easy that is to do?
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@drgnslayr did he say master and slave? the report posted said he referenced a passage about slaves. not making excuses, just don’t want to assume what he literally said.
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I don’t know. My response was on the @BShark comment expanding the master/slave context to all people.
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@dylans It may be the devil (aka coach Cal) or it may be the LORD (HCBS) but you gonna have to serve somebody!
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Just to set the record straight, he did say servant and master correct? Some here are saying he said slave and master.
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He is a coach/teacher of young student athletes of all different races, religions and backgrounds. He’s not a minister. I believe he was trying to relay that with scripture but failed, mightily! Not his field! Any use of the words servant/slave/master are negative words used in athletic terms. Comparing them to coach and player is just wrong. As far as spitting goes, if u have a bad cough and you are yelling I can see where some can come up. Just weird! I have always heard nice things about coach Adams.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Mark Adams Suspended:
He is a coach/teacher of young student athletes of all different races, religions and backgrounds. He’s not a minister. I believe he was trying to relay that with scripture but failed, mightily! Not his field! Any use of the words servant/slave/master are negative words used in athletic terms. Comparing them to coach and player is just wrong. As far as spitting goes, if u have a bad cough and you are yelling I can see where some can come up. Just weird! I have always heard nice things about coach Adams.
You nailed it.
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Also do not take to heart everything people say, Lest you hear your servant cursing you. For many times, also, your own heart has known That even you have cursed others.
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 New King James Version
This is a good one for this subject. All the people that are losing their minds have done/said the same thing (or worse) at one time or another.
Another good scripture is from Jesus Himself - (paraprhased) :
Love God. Love People. That’s it.
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Wow. Don’t be surprised if Jamie Dixon is next Big12 coach suspended. Eddie Lampkin alleging abuse and racial remarks from Dixon
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Adams has officially resigned from Tech.
