Big 12 Expansion
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
ESPN reported that the Big12 told the Pac12 that there was not enough revenue to warrant a merger… so allegedly, they have stopped talks.
Yeah.
Time to go full send. Add the top 6 (4 corners + Oregon and Washington) and tell the rest they’re on their own.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:
Not so fast my friend! https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/
"Outgoing Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby had not heard anything specific on NBC targeting the Big 12 for additional programming but said such a move “makes sense.” "
Wow! Business at this level without communication. Hum. Sounds more like NBC is just using the Big 12 for negotiation cover but not actually interested. Maybe just having Notre Dame is worth more than filling in with the Big 12.
I think Bowlsby should have kept quiet. His comments reflect poorly on the Big 12 and also throw network tv (NBC) under the bus by showing their bluff. Since he’s days away from leaving, you would think he would just be a shadow now and not doing anything to impact the Big 12 future.
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“For weeks, it was believed that the so-called “four corners schools” — Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah — could be at the top of the Big 12’s wish list if it were to target the Pac-12 for expansion candidates.” ~ KUSports.com
So we shuffle in these schools then we split for the Big 10 later? lol This is so f-ed up even alcohol can’t ease the pain! lol
How about all D1 schools just join the SEC? Essentially… we let the SEC usurp all powers of the NCAA as they then decide to bail out of it! lol
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@drgnslayr It sounds like the TV market for the B12 is better than most were expecting.
And then it sounds like Notre Dame is looking to secure an insane TV deal, and if they do they’ll remain an independent (for now).
To me, that puts a pause on the B10 trying to poach anyone else. And I think it will allow the B12 to go after UW and Oregon first. But I have to wonder how the politics behind the scenes change that. Without knowing the structure of the BOR in each state, will they let Oregon leave without taking OSU? Can Washington leave without taking WSU?
If you HAVE to take the “State” schools with Washington and Oregon, is that a better or worse package than AZ, ASU, CU and Utah?
Sitting at 12 right now, I think the smart move is to try and get 6 of the Pac12 schools. It would work out a pretty reasonable 2 division system of 9 schools on each side. 6 Pac12 schools plus Tech, BYU and KSU make up the West. The rest to the East.
That probably screws TTU and KSU a little bit with travel, but better to be traveling making P5 money than Mountain West…
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I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.
Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.
Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.
Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.
Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.
Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.
Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.
Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.
How is Oregon not THE top choice of remaining Pac12 schools? Rabid fanbase that crushes TV ratings almost every single week. Great programs in both money sports.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Big 12 Expansion:
@drgnslayr It sounds like the TV market for the B12 is better than most were expecting.
And then it sounds like Notre Dame is looking to secure an insane TV deal, and if they do they’ll remain an independent (for now).
To me, that puts a pause on the B10 trying to poach anyone else. And I think it will allow the B12 to go after UW and Oregon first. But I have to wonder how the politics behind the scenes change that. Without knowing the structure of the BOR in each state, will they let Oregon leave without taking OSU? Can Washington leave without taking WSU?
If you HAVE to take the “State” schools with Washington and Oregon, is that a better or worse package than AZ, ASU, CU and Utah?
Sitting at 12 right now, I think the smart move is to try and get 6 of the Pac12 schools. It would work out a pretty reasonable 2 division system of 9 schools on each side. 6 Pac12 schools plus Tech, BYU and KSU make up the West. The rest to the East.
That probably screws TTU and KSU a little bit with travel, but better to be traveling making P5 money than Mountain West…
Not 100% absolutely sure, but I haven’t seen any state requirement that Washington and Washington State have to be bound together in a move to any new conference. State politics here is such that most of the power is on the western side of the mountains, leaving WSU supporters scrambling. Don’t know about Oregon, but I think it’s similar.
The Seattle and Portland TV markets (#11 and #22 respectively) are much larger than Pullman/Spokane and Corvallis. And in terms of academics (remember those?), UW and U of O are well above their land-grant school counterparts at WSU and OSU. Both factors make them much more attractive to other conferences.
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I could see Colorado and Arizona jump. I thought Utah and Az State had stated publicly they were staying in the Pac 12. Maybe that changes if Az and Colo come aboard.
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@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.
Not saying it’s right. Just saying that everything about what’s going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.
Not saying it’s right. Just saying that everything about what’s going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.
Oregon is not to be ignored, just because of two words: Phil Knight (aka Mr. Nike). His money alone will keep the athletic program in good shape no matter where the Ducks end up. (Check out the world Track & Field championships this week on TV. That shiny new track stadium they just built is nearly all due to his money. ) He is to Oregon athletics what Boone Pickens was/is to Okie State.
As our estranged friend Jaybate once noted, those sneaker bucks and Nike’s national profile speak volumes.
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.
Not saying it’s right. Just saying that everything about what’s going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.
It is definitely about TV sets. But Oregon has the best TV ratings by far in the Pac12.
It’s like OU. You don’t want the Oklahoma City market. You want the 1.5M-5M TV Ratings regardless of who they are playing. And that is what Oregon brings.
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This whole expansion thing is crazy. I’ve read so many didn’t articles , heard so many different people with their views , so many inside sources ( which when I say inside sources is people actually connected with different programs within the leagues & have let things leak out.
Just got through listening to another from 365 sports & they guy was being asked who he thought would be the 1st team to join the Big 12 ? He said he would hate to put percentages or numerological but like he said the ONE thing the ONE team that keeps be mentioned in every article - -every conversation is Arizona. talking like he would be shocked if Arizona wasn’t. Then the next more likely then not very well could be Utah . Which kind of surprised me cause I had been hearing Colorado.
One thing is for sure the addition of teams from the PAC IS GOING TO HAPPEN. - -you can take that to the bank. When ? who knows , could be next week , could be next month , could be all the way at the end of the football season , BUT it will happen. - There is just way to much fire for it to not. - -To many sources
Like they was saying in this 365 , in the end it’s everyone for themselves , they have to do what they feel is in their best interest for their athletic department , their School. When they get their answer from ESPN and how low that offer is -they gonna bail. Some reports of ESPN saying 25 million per school - -that’s not going to get it done by far.
The main guy that does all the reporting for the Arizona Insider I think his name is Jason Scheer he is 100 % believes Arizona will land in the Big 12, he said from his sources saying what they have. - -He DOES say now if Arizona State doesn’t come then that might cause a little different response from Arizona - -he doesn’t think Arizona would leave Arizona State behind.
In the end from al I’ve red from all these different sites , fan posts and podcasts I’ve heard I think the most mentioned teams to jpin when it’s all said and done would be Arizona - - Arizona Stae - - -Colorado - - Utah - -and then possibly Oregon - - -& Washington sure gonna be interesting
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:
@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.
Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.
Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.
Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12
Where do you think those two end up? Seems like they’re in a really weird spot.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:
Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12
Aren’t they in a bad spot now? To me, some of the old Pac12 teams may be the most vulnerable of the schools left.
I suddenly feel more positive about the Big 12.
First… are we really going to get poached again? Doubtful.
Second… we have a marketing wonk in charge and the future is only about money.
Third… we still get to beat the crap out of the purple kitties every year! lol
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@Kcmatt7 said in Big 12 Expansion:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:
@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.
Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.
Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.
Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12
Where do you think those two end up? Seems like they’re in a really weird spot.
I’m guessing Stanford goes to the Big Ten. Fits their criteria in terms of institutional profile (great academics, selective, successful Olympic sports, parter with ND). They’re also so well off financially (almost a $40b endowment) they can plausibly go independent in football and park Olympic sports in the Big Ten, WCC, or Big West
Cal is the weird one. I could see them piecing together a “west coast Ivy” by joining the Big West (which is mostly UC System schools) and some other oddballs (maybe Zags for hoops?). But they’re in a really tough spot. Nobody really wants them because they’re a nightmare for travel and frankly don’t fit culturally anywhere except maaayyyybe the ACC. There is something to the coastal elitism there. It’s more rank than usual at Berkeley. I think there’s a better chance they go independent than join the Big 12.
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The B12 isn’t likely to get poached because there is not much left worth poaching.
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@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:
@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.
Not saying it’s right. Just saying that everything about what’s going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.
No true Big 12 Network means TV market size means very little to the Big 12 and their TV negotiations which is part of why Cal and Stanford aren’t being brought up much. With a true Big 12 Network, you could absolutely guarantee the Big 12 would be trying to sell those two schools and gain access to a top 10 media market in the Bay Area. Since neither school draws big ratings and the Big 12 doesn’t have a network to sell to TV distributors, Cal and Stanford have very little appeal to the Big 12 just like neither school wants much to do with the Big 12.
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So when these guys quit playing paddy cake with one another -Who do we think will be the 1st School to jump ship and joing the Big 12 ? - - TA DA - -from everything I’ve seen/heard/read - - - ARIZONA hands down
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Well guys BIG rumors now to keep an eye out for the 1st week of August, Coming of Utah site and podcast talking about Colorado and Arizona looking to join or apply for acceptance by the first week of August some time.
Reports are saying Washington &Oregon like holding the Pac 12 hostage saying they want un equal shares to remain in the Pac 21. Had been some rumor that the ACC had reached out and was trying to get Washington & Oregon but guess that was not solid Also talking about reaching out to Stanford. .Saying now that Oregon & Washington say if they don’t get un-equal shares they are entertaining the Big 12.
Word is an I quote " Colorado is pissed about this un-equal shares idea "
Talk also is ESPN trying to get an agreement with the pac 12 for modest amount as ESPN doesn’t want to lose that late slot. - Fox HAS NO INTEREST in the PAC 12 a they are all over the SEC. … Guess CBS wants the Big 12 as they are losing the SEC at the end of this year and want to work with the Big 12 and then have a prime time game with the Big 12 in the middle of the week like Wedns or Thursday Night.
Also talk like the Big 12 might just want TWO teams from the Pac 12 which would be Colorado & Arizona saying if they were to add FOUR teams it would cut their profits a little as where with two teams their profits actually would increase a little… - -Who knows, but just to much smoke for nothing, Smoke coming from all directions.
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Wonder if Oregon and Wash would demand higher shares in the Big 12? They might not have heard about Texas’s popularity in the conference…
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@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:
Well guys BIG rumors now to keep an eye out for the 1st week of August, Coming of Utah site and podcast talking about Colorado and Arizona looking to join or apply for acceptance by the first week of August some time.
Reports are saying Washington &Oregon like holding the Pac 12 hostage saying they want un equal shares to remain in the Pac 21. Had been some rumor that the ACC had reached out and was trying to get Washington & Oregon but guess that was not solid Also talking about reaching out to Stanford. .Saying now that Oregon & Washington say if they don’t get un-equal shares they are entertaining the Big 12.
Word is an I quote " Colorado is pissed about this un-equal shares idea "
Talk also is ESPN trying to get an agreement with the pac 12 for modest amount as ESPN doesn’t want to lose that late slot. - Fox HAS NO INTEREST in the PAC 12 a they are all over the SEC. … Guess CBS wants the Big 12 as they are losing the SEC at the end of this year and want to work with the Big 12 and then have a prime time game with the Big 12 in the middle of the week like Wedns or Thursday Night.
Also talk like the Big 12 might just want TWO teams from the Pac 12 which would be Colorado & Arizona saying if they were to add FOUR teams it would cut their profits a little as where with two teams their profits actually would increase a little… - -Who knows, but just to much smoke for nothing, Smoke coming from all directions.
That’s what I’ve been reading, too. Az and Colorado, come on down!
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New school in the conference “swingers swap” portal:
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@jayballer67 Unequal revenue shares are a big part of why Colorado left the Big 12 in the first place so of course they’re not going to be happy about that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:
@jayballer67 Unequal revenue shares are a big part of why Colorado left the Big 12 in the first place so of course they’re not going to be happy about that.
All this does is just enhance the chances of the demise of the PAC 12 even further - -of course thats pretty much a given any ways- - just name the time sooner or later these teams going to bail
