Famous Buckets Blunders
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@BeddieKU23 Uh. Well… I mean… I’m very superstitious. All season long, when we got behind big time I would quit watching. Go to the store, go work on some project - whatever. So when we’re down FIFTEEN at halftime (Fifteen, really??) I thought - well, I’ll do us all a favor and go to bed. Not stay up till midnight and watch this bloodbath when I have to work the next day. By the way - the Super Bowl and National Championship games should ONLY be played on Saturday nights. Just saying.
Anyway - You’re welcome.
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Question for everyone: How did you feel with KU hiring Self?
I’ll admit… I wasn’t 100% for his hire. I felt confused and uncertain.
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@drgnslayr I thought we “settled”.
I am a basketball genius.
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I was a lot younger and immature when we got Self. When you grow up thinking Roy Williams is the greatest thing since sliced bread… Well let’s just say I was not impressed. Obviously that feeling had nothing to do with Self and everything to do with how Roy left us…
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@BeddieKU23 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
I was a lot younger and immature when we got Self. When you grow up thinking Roy Williams is the greatest thing since sliced bread… Well let’s just say I was not impressed. Obviously that feeling had nothing to do with Self and everything to do with how Roy left us…
We had an adjustment period, for sure. Some have never adjusted.
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I feel bad for those that haven’t at this point. We literally found the guy
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@BeddieKU23 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
I feel bad for those that haven’t at this point. We literally found the guy
Such a great point. The first year I didn’t like him because we didn’t run. Bill was an acquired taste for me. I didn’t really start liking him until 2007. By 2008, I was in all the way.
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Oh for sure the adjustment was hard. At times Bill is still acquired taste but there’s not another human being I want on that sideline. In fact, the thought of him not being here is pretty much the scariest thing I can imagine (in a KU fan vacuum).
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@BeddieKU23 I’ve grown ridiculously comfortable with the FACT that we will compete and likely win the big 12 every year and have a legitimate chance at a title just about every year as we enter the tournament as a top 4 seed. Down years probably mean 2nd in conference and maybe a loss on a Thursday or Friday of the second weekend.
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@BeddieKU23 I had an inappropriate hatred for Roy Williams when he left. Especially after the “I don’t give a **** about North Carolina” statement.
The funny thing is - he is the ONLY person I’ve ever gotten an autograph from. The only one I ever wanted. I always thought that autograph collecting was a strange habit. Anyway, I took two of my nephews (10 & 12) to a game and of course they wanted autographs afterwards. We stood in line - seemed like two hours. People we pushing and shoving and talking nasty to each other, it was absurd. For autographs. But I kept watching Roy. He was so gracious and kind and always had a little something to say to each person. I was so impressed. When we finally got to him, my nephews got their autographs and Roy looked at me and I told him “I’ve never in my life wanted an autograph from anyone, but I WOULD like yours, just because of the way you’ve handled all these people”. I think he teared up a little (maybe I did too, so???) So I got my one and only autograph.
Oh yeah, about five years after he left, I forgave him.
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My biggest miss when evaluating talent was definitely Carlton Bragg. He looked like an ideal pick and pop big man. Obviously, you can’t tell from high school highlights where a guy is at mentally and focuswise, but Bragg looked like he had the tools.
I thought about Bragg when I was watching the 30 for 30 on ESPN about the AND1 mixtapes of the late 90s and early 2000s. At one point, they asked NBA players if the AND1 guys could have played in the NBA, and Lou Williams and Kyrie Irving both made profound statements after they stopped laughing. Irving basically said that because they were professionals, they knew how to take care of their body and get themselves ready to play every day. Williams said that the NBA requires dedication because you have to play basketball when you don’t want to play basketball.
Turning back to Bragg, I think the thing for him was that he played basketball because he was good at it, but not because he wanted to be a basketball player. That disconnect limited his ability to improve and basically doomed him at KU. To improve at the P5 level and beyond, you have to work on your game even when you don’t want to. It’s more of a job than something you do for enjoyment at that point. That is a tough transition.
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@justanotherfan said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Turning back to Bragg, I think the thing for him was that he played basketball because he was good at it, but not because he wanted to be a basketball player. That disconnect limited his ability to improve and basically doomed him at KU. To improve at the P5 level and beyond, you have to work on your game even when you don’t want to. It’s more of a job than something you do for enjoyment at that point. That is a tough transition.
Bam! Nailed it.
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Grimes first game as a Jayhawk, 21 points in the bright lights of the Champions Classic against MSU. 6 of 10 3 pointers. He never again scored even 20 in a game the rest of the year. That amazed me. Still not sure how someone does that and then goes for double figures only 9 more times. I can still picture his first shot he made, a beautifully formed 3 from the wing.
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I was 100% in on Bragg. He had so much real potential. I feel what he lacked (discovered this later) was maturity. Maybe someone else in here knows… but I doubt he had a good family support system. He seemed to lack a mentor in his life where he would be ashamed if he didn’t succeed. Mentors are a huge help to kids, especially those growing up on the wrong side of the tracks.
SELF - I think everyone in here knows me and what I think of Bill. He’s a guy I’ve met several times and I’m impressed that he seems to remember me. How to compare him to the other D1 coaches. I now think he’s the absolute best in America right now. I always favored Jay Wright in the past because he always had teams that were well-coached in fundamentals. He would take a team of less than 5-star players and win titles. Early on in Bill’s career here I embraced the focus on defense over offense. But I would get pissed that we actually didn’t practice enough fundamentals in defense. Without question, Self has improved his coaching while at Kansas. I don’t think there are that many coaches out there that actually work on their craft to try to improve. We all have witnessed him taking teams of differing gifts and utilize what gifts we have. I was never a fan of his original 3/2 hi/lo or extensively using the chop scheme. Now… wow! He’s converted his motion 3/2 hi/lo to a 4/1 hi/lo and wow does that work! It feels more like a NBA offense… exciting to see it working and our offense seems more productive.
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This thread is making me realize my biggest mistakes were all about big men. I think most peoples probably are.
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Is it you… or is it that we really missed on several bigs? We all saw size and maybe some athleticism and got excited. I will say… I doubt many of us missed on JoJo! lol
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@drgnslayr well, to be honest, I did not miss on Jojo in college, but feel like I haven’t appreciated him as an NBA player. but maybe that’s because I don’t appreciate the NBA.
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@justanotherfan At least I’m in good company on Bragg.
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@nuleafjhawk If you like to listen to Podcasts, I found “the Jayhawker podcast” with Wayne Simien and Brian Haney does some of the interviews. There’s a great one on there with Roy Williams. I enjoyed Sherron Collins’ interview as well my Jayhawk hero and fellow classmate Danny Manning.
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I feel like this thread has been cathartic. The post has generated more response than I expected. I guess that’s another confession…
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Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
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@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I was at his first game vs USC. High hopes… https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/303522305
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I watched Bragg in a summer scrimmage before his sophomore year and he DOMINATED. Shame he never put it all together.
Mine was DeAndre Ayton. I was writing at the time and went to Free State to cover one of his games. All four coaches were in separate corners of the gym and half the team was there. I asked someone close to the program about him and he just told me “lock city.” I had the commitment story written and on my hard drive ready to publish. Oops.
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@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I will always believe KU wins the 2012 title if he swallowed his pride and came back for his sophomore season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
@mayjay said in Famous Buckets Blunders:
Did anyone mention Josh Selby? My belief he would become a star certainly got dashed!
I will always believe KU wins the 2012 title if he swallowed his pride and came back for his sophomore season.
Selby is another one that was probably mis-cast and miscoached. Self had a habit for a while of trying to make certain guys fill a specific role. He wanted Naadir Tharpe to be Russell Robinson, for example. With Selby, he wanted him to play more like Sherron Collins, but that just wasn’t his game. Once Selby started to struggle (and was working through injuries, too) it all just kind of unraveled.
If Self had given Selby the kind of patience and freedom that he gave Remy Martin, KU probably wins the 2011 title. Think of what that win would have done for Self’s legacy with two titles in less than 10 years at KU, plus the conference title streak, etc. But Self was still developing as a coach then. He was still adapting his style.
