ISU Game Thread



  • @kuballin10 he’s also dominated the ACC. I think defense wins you ballgames, it’s just harder to get red hot for 6 games when you hang your hat on D.

    Do you ever wonder if guys like Self would have won more titles staying at a program like Illinois where he wasnt expected to land top 50 guys? Where he might have same level talent for a year sometimes 2 longer?

    Do you think he wins a title earlier with Luther Head, Deron Williams and Dee Brown? Does he have less of a challenge recruiting undervalued talent to the Big 10?



  • @rockchalkwyo great post.

    Yes, Self has no choice because Dave’s been that bad. The issue is we need good Dave to even remotely have a chance for the big 12 and ncaa title. I thought after Dave’s showing in stilly we’d see him start any ideas why Self didn’t give him the go after the good performance?

    It’d been the perfect atta boy based on him winning his job back. Dave when we aren’t required to post feed him is better than Mitch. When we play UK Oscar is going to eat Mitch and kj alive. Dave is our only hope.

    If you want to hit on big transfers they system can’t be so complex they can’t pick it up easily. Remy’s played plenty of ball it shouldn’t take over half the season for him to go back to bring aggressive remy. That’s poor coaching.

    Same issue though with recruiting and stud freshman staying. Self is extremely likeable but other coaches can sell against him easily with his track record and loyalty to his way and his system.



  • Remy was late getting here too.



  • @approxinfinity said in ISU Game Thread:

    @kuballin10 he’s also dominated the ACC. I think defense wins you ballgames, it’s just harder to get red hot for 6 games when you hang your hat on D.

    Defense wins ballgames but it’s harder to do for 6 games??? Somehow defense helps you win just not enough?..so you’re saying being a better offense team will mean you win more? That I can agree it’s the age old adage of basketball give me 5 gifted offensive players and I’ll teach them to be dogs and play D. If you give me 5 defense players they won’t get it done because I can’t create in them offensive skill set. I can draw up plays for easy buckets but if you can’t “go get yours” as the best for KU have done then we aren’t winning crap.

    Do you ever wonder if guys like Self would have won more titles staying at a program like Illinois where you aren’t expected to land top 50 guys? Where you might have same level talent for a year sometimes 2 longer?

    For Self 1000% agree he’s better off having guys stay 3-4 years so he can feel like he trusts them in his system and quits his short leash/quick hook deal. So yes, he’d be better off at a place like Illinois especially with the chitown connection.

    I should add his 1 title was with upper classman. How often do stud freshman arrive only not to play how we expected them to come in or the minutes or a senior less athletic/potential gets minutes over them? That’s happened time and time again here so your logic is dead on.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 agreed no doubt about that. For him to be coached to change his game this drastically was a mistake.

    Self wants guys to play with a free mind and just go play but system takes precedent over freedom to play. Similar to what I’ve pointed out in the game thread. If och comes down goes 1 on 5 and shoots Self isn’t mad or yanking him. Go watch any early games and tell me what happened with Remy. Remy plays less minutes than Harris and they took the ball out of his hands. I guess going undefeated in open gyms means more to a HOF coach than actual D1 games that were played. Never knew summer league practice would carry more weight than a years of games and resume’ a guy like remy had built up.



  • That has nothing to do with anything. Harris is not about Harris. He’s about moving the ball and setting up his teammates. The ball doesn’t stick w/him. He penetrates and dishes. He does the dirty work. He had to play a lot of mins today without remy to help. He does have a nice shot, look at his throws. He lacks confidence, I think we can all see that. That will get better. He needed another guard to help bring up the ball against the press. Hence more to’s than usual. Remy will get healthier and Bobby will get more practice reps.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 said in ISU Game Thread:

    That has nothing to do with anything. Harris is not about Harris. He’s about moving the ball and setting up his teammates. The ball doesn’t stick w/him. He penetrates and dishes. He does the dirty work. He had to play a lot of mins today without remy to help. He does have a nice shot, look at his throws. He lacks confidence, I think we can all see that. That will get better. He needed another guard to help bring up the ball against the press. Hence more to’s than usual. Remy will get healthier and Bobby will get more practice reps.

    Not sure Bobby is all the way healthy either.



  • @benshawks08 agree. That injury may make him skiddish too.



  • I heard in the post game Ochai say he learned to speak French during the pandemic.

    Pleurage!



  • @Crimsonorblue22 I agree. KU needed Harris and he scored the ball when KU needed it. I can’t understand why Braun and Ochai were so ineffective the last 8 minutes of the game. KU really missed Remy’s scoring last night; KU desperatley needed a third scorer last night and Harris was just enough to get the win.



  • I’m happy we won. I thought we looked like last year w/o Remy. Glad to see KJ get some minutes. It’s nice to know we can play some defense when we have to.



  • @kuballin10 who specifically is leaving and thriving?



  • I think it was great to see the team react, execute to that late game situation with the game on the line. That really hasn’t been something the team has dealt with much so far. I think that win does a lot of good for guys mental state. They know they didn’t play great but got a hard fought win despite that and injuries etc.



  • @Kcmatt7 said in ISU Game Thread:

    @kuballin10 who specifically is leaving and thriving?

    It’s not a list that exists. Guys that did okay statistically via volume (ie Andrew White) weren’t winning.



  • Well, we won! I had a long winded post ready last night, but my internet crapped out before pushing send. So, this one will probably have fewer cuss words! I was surprised at how pesky Iowa State’s defense was. That made for an u-g-l-y first half. Extremely surprised to see KJ starting!!! He was a little bit lost at times, but I think with more PT he’ll be less lost and hopefully less stiff.

    Semi shocked that Self is still trying to sort out who plays at this point in the season.

    This is a weird season for Self. For some reason it really stands out how he’s trying to “herd” his players into whatever mold he sees fit. I’m not really getting it this year.

    I think both teams were hurt and helped by poor officiating last night. KU for sure caught a lucky break on that non goal tending call. Game changer.

    That Brockenwhatever dude has an amazing pull up midrange game. Did he miss in that range? His shooting form is perfect. Straight up, straight lines, release high.

    Great second half for KU.



  • @rockchalkwyo I was intrigued when KJ subbed in for Mitch at the end of such a tight game. Indeed, that shows KJ has earned Self’s trust. It doesn’t matter who starts the game (according to Self), but when the game is on the line, it sure matters who ends it.



  • @rockchalkjayhawk

    KJ started and barely played. Seemed like a message for both Mitch/Dave to get it together. Don’t think it worked but perhaps Self should stick with it



  • The reason he’s still messing with the lineup is due to all the injuries and failures of the upperclass men. Wilson should be better, even if he can’t shoot he should be able to help out in the other phases. I watched the isu/tt game, it was as ugly as ours.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 said in ISU Game Thread:

    The reason he’s still messing with the lineup is due to all the injuries and failures of the upperclass men. Wilson should be better, even if he can’t shoot he should be able to help out in the other phases. I watched the isu/tt game, it was as ugly as ours.

    Dave should be better too. I’m sure Bill would love to be playing him more if he could.



  • @BShark said in ISU Game Thread:

    @Crimsonorblue22 said in ISU Game Thread:

    The reason he’s still messing with the lineup is due to all the injuries and failures of the upperclass men. Wilson should be better, even if he can’t shoot he should be able to help out in the other phases. I watched the isu/tt game, it was as ugly as ours.

    Dave should be better too. I’m sure Bill would love to be playing him more if he could.

    Getting to a point you need to just give Dave a ton of minutes again and say “we need you” or to sit his ass on the bench for good and let KJ, Mitch and Jalen man the 5.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in ISU Game Thread:

    @rockchalkjayhawk

    KJ started and barely played. Seemed like a message for both Mitch/Dave to get it together. Don’t think it worked but perhaps Self should stick with it

    I’ll stick with my refrain: MORE KJ!!! Bouncy and energetic are both good things for this lineup.



  • @Kcmatt7 the million dollar question! I’d keep throwing him in there. Dang he just had a dble dble 2 games ago. It’s in him. I’d get him a therapist.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 it pains me, but personally I think we need him. So tend to agree with you.



  • Sooo decided to check out Iowa St site, oh they all up in arms over what they say blatent , clearly missed goal tending call against McCormack late late in the game with like either 1:48 seconds or 1 : 28 seconds to go, and from the video footage the replay that shows - -they very well might be right. We were up 58-54 at the time - - Guy was laying it up for easy two looks very much like the ball hit the backboard and McCormack slapped it off after it hit the back board to keep it from going in - - pretty clear - - I dunno likes it might of been



  • @kuballin10 said in ISU Game Thread:

    @FarmerJayhawk what’s Kenpom weight remy’s effect on the team to win versus his actual output (stats in games played)

    If you’re going to go all analyst on me that’s fine appreciate the conversation at least. Haven’t been on the board in years because guys can’t handle a conflicting viewpoint if you don’t bow at the alter of Self. When I tried to pontificate on how the games played or really talk ball others just call names because they haven’t played a day in their life and literally besides name calling or grammar analysis they can’t keep up.

    I appreciated HEM because he’d call people out begging for other viewpoints to discuss instead of

    “Trust self” “He can do no wrong” “You don’t see practice”

    We come to this board to discuss if people can’t do that because they have nothing to add then what is the point here?

    Ken doesn’t explicitly weight for individual players as far as I know. The fine details of his model are proprietary, but I could probably get close to replicating it based on the details he’s published. It’s more like how many points do you score and how many do you give up, then adjusting that by opponent strength to estimate probabilities of winning using the methods from Lawrence legend (and KU fan!) Bill James back when. So if you score a shatload of points against a high efficiency defense, that’s really good, irrespective of who actually played. For example, if a starting lineup of Harris, Yesufu, Wilson, Mitch, and Dave (and all played 35 minutes) hung 100 on LSU (the #1 ranked defense) that would be the same as if (pick your 5 and minutes) also scored 100 against LSU.



  • Remy is not an efficient offensive player and never has been. That was always the concern with him and Carr. You don’t know how they will translate. Carr has had a similarly rough go of it, being hot and cold.

    I like sitting him until he is healthy because he was a net negative against Tech with the scuffed knee. He couldn’t even stay on the court without fouling. Self has his faults as does any coach but I wouldn’t say he has mis-handled Remy. Just this year there is a far worse case, how much he plays Lightfoot.

    Yes he has a system but it doesn’t hold back talent. Dotson couldn’t shoot and averaged 18 a game as a Sophomore. Remy’s problem is that he struggles to get by his man and has a slow/flat release. His last two seasons at ASU he averaged 6 makes a game on 15 and 14 shots a game. That wasn’t going to happen here with Ochai back.



  • @Kcmatt7 white, grimes, Tristan and biggest one Gethro.

    Gethro with Drew would thrive he’d be given opportunity, miss defensive assignments but learn and do that early in the year in games we win either way. Game experience is the best Self can’t wrap his brain around this.

    Gethro is 6’10 230 and long and athletic. Rim run, set screens, dunks, dump offs and put backs. You want to get to the league well this is what you do here…look at Thamba at Baylor identical.

    Gethro at UNM averaged 9.8 ppg and 5.1 boards on 19.8 mpg.

    I get we say “he couldn’t get minutes here” and yet look what we are running out there.

    Here’s the reality. Self plays favorites based on who he trusts. How he comes to the trust conclusions no one but self knows. Practice, summer league whatever it is…it isn’t games for this trust.

    Quick leash for those he doesn’t and stunted growth. Long leash for those he trusts and can do no wrong even if turnovers or bad shots are taken.

    Apply it to remy, grimes, gethro whoever.

    He didn’t make Grimes better…Sampson did that.

    I can add Cheick too. He couldn’t “grasp” bills system or whatever your insiders claim close to the program. He’s in the wrong spot whatever yet he isn’t played through it against cream puffs he’s relegated to the bench.

    Everyone who’s followed KU knows Self prioritizes system over better athletes and potential so that entails the system is literally stopping better players with higher ceilings to improve and REACH that ceiling in season.



  • @kuballin10 said in ISU Game Thread:

    @Kcmatt7 white, grimes, Tristan and biggest one Gethro.

    Gethro with Drew would thrive he’d be given opportunity, miss defensive assignments but learn and do that early in the year in games we win either way. Game experience is the best Self can’t wrap his brain around this.

    Gethro is 6’10 230 and long and athletic. Rim run, set screens, dunks, dump offs and put backs. You want to get to the league well this is what you do here…look at Thamba at Baylor identical.

    Gethro at UNM averaged 9.8 ppg and 5.1 boards on 19.8 mpg.

    I get we say “he couldn’t get minutes here” and yet look what we are running out there.

    Here’s the reality. Self plays favorites based on who he trusts. How he comes to the trust conclusions no one but self knows. Practice, summer league whatever it is…it isn’t games for this trust.

    Quick leash for those he doesn’t and stunted growth. Long leash for those he trusts and can do no wrong even if turnovers or bad shots are taken.

    Apply it to remy, grimes, gethro whoever.

    He didn’t make Grimes better…Sampson did that.

    I can add Cheick too. He couldn’t “grasp” bills system or whatever your insiders claim close to the program. He’s in the wrong spot whatever yet he isn’t played through it against cream puffs he’s relegated to the bench.

    Everyone who’s followed KU knows Self prioritizes system over better athletes and potential so that entails the system is literally stopping better players with higher ceilings to improve and REACH that ceiling in season.

    If these are your ideas of guys who left and thrived we are living in two different realities.

    Grimes first year at Houston was wildly inefficient. Basically his results here, just with more volume.

    White got beat out by BG. We all watched it. If BG wasn’t a 50% ringer from deep White would have played here.

    Enaruna is getting 17 mpg and scoring 6 a night for ISU.

    Gethro put up those numbers while shooting under 50% from the field, and before his accident had just left that program too. Against the only P5 team they faced, he put up a 1/4 shooting night with 5 points and 5 boards. Quite the smoking gun you have there that Bill Self can’t develop players.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 send him to Dr. Phil, we’ll make a game thread.

    “Welcome to a special live edition of my show! Today’s guest is David McCormack, a center for the Kansas Jayhawks men’s basketball team. David, you were once affectionately called Big Dave but now some are calling you Little D instead. What is going on with you?”

    “Dr. Phil, I don’t know, sir. That’s why I’m here.”

    “Well, we’re gonna get to the bottom of it, don’t you worry. We’ll be right back, after this commercial break.”



  • That was a good question by Dr. Phil…


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