Bill Self "growth stunter"



  • @benshawks08

    I know you have been around long enough to remember my constant rants about lacking a chip! 😉



  • @benshawks08 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I feel like Remy is that guy this year but he’s currently injured. I had hopes that Braun could step up and do it but he hasn’t consistently. We’ve known Och is to cool calm and collected, Dave is too wild, Mitch is too old (jk), and Harris just isn’t it.

    I think Pettiford is that guy. Can’t wait to see him run this show.



  • @tis4tim

    Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @tis4tim

    Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

    Really hoping this doesn’t derail him. Hoping against hope he can end up the starter next year.



  • @BShark Me too. Pettiford is key next season, Harris would be good coming in off the bench - a two-headed point, if you will. Yesufu will be important as well, as either a two starting or first off the bench. We’ll be young, but with alot of depth and athleticism inside and out.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

    Agreed. I know @BShark was high on this guy from the start and in the limited time I’ve watched him, I think he has “it”. Every move seems to have a purpose and he seems to ooze confidence. It just feels like something good is going to happen whenever he touches the ball. Looking forward to getting him back and giving us that spark we’ve been missing.



  • @BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @tis4tim

    Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

    Really hoping this doesn’t derail him. Hoping against hope he can end up the starter next year.

    Even if Self loved him more then his own son at this point Bobby will have a limited role whenever he comes back unless injury changes that. Self has clearly shown he doesn’t trust anyone that hasn’t played here 5 years already or isn’t 25



  • Bobby has minutes awaiting him if he gets healthy. If.

    Self has already indicated he will be one of our next great guards. So it would be a huge mistake to bench him throughout this year and basically waste a year for him to season with experience. Bobby has monster upside!



  • I think they need Bobby back in a bad way because Self trusts Bobby. And that gives them the depth to press more and shorten the shot clock. Which is desperately needed with our poor interior defense.



  • @Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I think they need Bobby back in a bad way because Self trusts Bobby. And that gives them the depth to press more and shorten the shot clock. Which is desperately needed with our poor interior defense.

    we have an interior defense ? lol



  • Self literally said per Sam Lance - I wish I played kj and Zach more early on.

    He was the only guy on the planet not seeing that one straight.

    Zach looks good against Msu our toughest comp all year under the bright lights of MSG and proceeds to never play real meaningful minutes when we got back to Lawrence.

    He does this every year I get being “stubborn” but now I’m starting to think he’s losing it.



  • @kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    Self literally said per Sam Lance - I wish I played kj and Zach more early on.

    He was the only guy on the planet not seeing that one straight.

    Zach looks good against Msu our toughest comp all year under the bright lights of MSG and proceeds to never play real meaningful minutes when we got back to Lawrence.

    He does this every year I get being “stubborn” but now I’m starting to think he’s losing it.

    If by losing it you mean got Remy to entirely buy in you nailed it



  • @FarmerJayhawk if by buying in you mean becoming a minimal offensive threat who just passes it around the perimeter and hardly looks to penetrate because he’s gotta run the offense or he’s yanked…and playing less minutes when fully healthy than Harris…

    Yeah I stand by my claims he’s not adjusting/losing it and his ignorance that he had to “change” remy was an unfathomably bad decision



  • @kuballin10 Remy had to change. The point is to win games right? Did Remy win anything of significance at ASU the way he was playing? I guess we could shoot for an 11 seed and first round exit if we just let Remy fire at will and not guard anyone.



  • Remy had to change what exactly? He realizes he isn’t the number 1 scoring option because of Ochai but they can absolutely be a two or three headed monster with Braun. The problem is that was never presented or encouraged by Self with everything said in the media.

    Remy’s a great kid and it was assumed he would come in and shoot 20 times a game and be this ball hog…why? You don’t think Remy’s never played on a team where he isn’t the best player or that he can’t recognize he doesn’t have to get 25 every night to have a chance but he can get 15 with 6-7 assists?

    That’s where the staff flat out sucked. They made assumptions and any bad shot he took in practice they tried to act like they had to break him of this awful habit which was aggression and being an alpha.

    Sure would be nice to have an alpha guard for the season and a tourney but unfortunately Self massively screwed his mind games with the key player up and reaps what he sows.



  • I think CB and Remy have both been a bit unselfish. But better than being a ball stop.

    Remy has quite honestly banged up for most of the season. Been nursing both a back and knee injury for like 8 of the 14 games I think. I’d like to revisit this in 2-3 weeks once Remy’s knee starts feeling better.



  • @kuballin10 effort on defense and shot selection. Expected by who? That paragraph is a mess. I sure didn’t expect him to come fire 20+ shots a game. Remy himself said he had to come become a real PG for his pro prospects. If he wasn’t going to change at all he might as well had stayed in the draft and started his career in Moldova or someplace.

    And as @Kcmatt7 wisely pointed out, he’s been hurt almost all year and that’s really affected him. Broadly speaking, we’re going to be fine, there’s always a KU fanbase meltdown around this time of year then we go on a stretch of winning 12 of 13 and everything is fine. Unless you’re one of those fans who likes losing 91-90 more than winning 60-59 (they do exist, including a fairly prominent Twitter account).



  • @Kcmatt7

    This. Remy is not healthy right now. Anyone can see that while watching him play and the minutes or lack of minutes he is logging. Of course everyone would like to see Remy be more assertive, but until he is healthy we are not going to see that.



  • Does anyone remember when the producers of Monday Night Football brought in comedian Dennis Miller to be a color guy? They thought his quick wit and somewhat irreverent approach would be great entertainment for viewers. Not long after, he was told to tone it down and not speak so much, pretty much negating the entire point of bringing him into the booth in the first place.

    This is kind of how I feel about the Remy situation with Self. Why bring in this charismatic, free-wheeling shooter then force him to play within a system that pretty much neuters his strengths? I get that Self is a defense-first guy, but you have to let guys be who they are to some degree.



  • I’ll address my poor sentence structure in another message but did Och coming down and going 1 on 5 count as a good shot?

    If remy did that he’d be yanked. Self plays favorites and it’s killed this teams title chances for years.



  • @kuballin10 you’re acting like Remy is playing 5 mpg.

    He’s getting 25 minutes and will get 30 mpg + once he’s back healthy



  • @Kcmatt7 25 mpg…you know there’s 40 minutes played right? You remember how remy was supposed to come here and be the alpha? That attacking mentality.

    Check what senior Frank and senior Graham’s mpg were and get back to me.

    Before remy was hurt he still wasn’t planning even close to the 35 mpg he should have been.

    When Harris is getting more minutes than the stud transfer and all American then something is drastically wrong with the guy calling the shots.



  • @kuballin10 but seniors Frank and Devonte in consecutive years both played on teams that seriously lacked depth. Even when a hundred percent healthy Remy probably won’t go over 30 mpg, and why would he?



  • Our two best players are taking the majority of the shots. Talk about stunted growth!



  • @BShark

    boom shackalacka off the top rope



  • During his stints against the cyclones KJ impressed me with his heads up attitude and understanding of Self’s game. He was alert and moved quickly around the paint. PT for him will make us better. I’m not down on Mitch as much over the last few games. If Dave loses his hesitation on both ends and if he could make a freaking few more bunnies that would help. Shooting air balls from two feet out explains the 47% FG rate. OMFG! and my better half says honey the grandkids are going hear you. They live in CO so she may have a point. Wilson is going to be better and better so I’m going to get off of his ass to lighten the load.



  • @BeddieKU23

    Boom Shacka lacka lacka from “I wanna take you higher” by Sly and the family Stone makes for a clever and positive post.



  • I’m a fan of Remy. A big part is his cheerleading ability out on the floor. We need energy and emotion. Anything to help our guys play with enthusiasm.

    But I’m not sure how he fits. Essentially, he is a freshman in Lawrence. He’s stepping on a team where guys have been here for a while. I don’t think his game has meshed with the rest of the team yet. Players have to figure out other players. The transition hasn’t been smooth… plus his health is in question.

    Right now our team is a hodge podge. Who is our PG and can he run the team? We need our offense to flow. I’m not seeing that happen with our starting 5, let alone, when we start substituting. Obviously… seeing Self jiggle the lineup so much indicates he’s searching for flow. It isn’t just about a player coming in and getting some points.

    Where we are is frustrating. We have enough talent on this team to become a solid contender… but we play like a November team. We better keep our fingers crossed in hopes we don’t hit some bad luck, like injuries come on. Our current margin for victory is razor-thin. We are capable of losing to every team in our league. Hate to say this… but with a little bad luck we could face the worst results since Self arrived here.

    We had some crude play in recent years and Self turned to defense to save us. We appropriately named it “bad ball” because of the ugliness of games. I don’t see this team being capable of defending enough for us to sweat through league games and come out on top.

    Unless we show an evolutionary breakthrough soon… I remain pessimistic about our chances this year.

    I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.



  • @drgnslayr

    I think Remy fits well with this bunch but your right he’s essentially a freshman here. Remember he wasn’t here for offseason and even when he got here to start the fall semester he was hurt. It always makes some difference when you don’t have chemistry developed with teammates and coaches. We’ve certainly seen that even Remy and Self have that give and take relationship going. Self pushing Remy to be a bit of a different guard out there then he was at ASU. Perhaps that would have been all ironed out before if they spent a full summer together etc but its spilled over into real games.

    We’ve seen what this team is when Remy isn’t on the floor and its not pretty. Having that secondary playmaker on the floor makes or breaks the offense really because Och & Braun are not creating plays on their own. It puts Harris in a tough spot to be the guy creating for everyone else which isn’t his strength.

    What I saw in the Iowa St game was Harris & Pettiford afraid to take perimeter shots when they had opportunity especially when defenses were sagging off. If that was Remy getting those looks he’s taking the shot. Remy really helps spread the floor and defenses respect him so he doesn’t get a ton of open looks running our normal stuff. If the last couple games are an indication of anything I’d say Remy is the most important player in the lineup to creating the kind of flow we want in the offense



  • @BShark that seems like an ignorant comment especially at this time.

    How’s the team look? Are the majority of our players playing their best ball? Are they maximizing their potential? We need all 5 guys a threat to score and a three headed monster to win the big 12.

    How’s Dave look? Does he look like end of year Dave who carried us the second half against the groves bro’s?

    Ochai should shoot the most Braun and Remy 2a and 2b (Braun disappears against better athletes and he’s too hot and cold).



  • @Marco that’s just wrong and ridiculous.

    Frank played 33, 33 and 36 his last three years here.

    Dtae’ played 32, 35 and 37

    Get out of here with our best lead guard shouldn’t play 30 mpg this is asinine



  • @drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I’m a fan of Remy. A big part is his cheerleading ability out on the floor. We need energy and emotion. Anything to help our guys play with enthusiasm.

    But I’m not sure how he fits. Essentially, he is a freshman in Lawrence. He’s stepping on a team where guys have been here for a while. I don’t think his game has meshed with the rest of the team yet. Players have to figure out other players. The transition hasn’t been smooth… plus his health is in question.

    Right now our team is a hodge podge. Who is our PG and can he run the team? We need our offense to flow. I’m not seeing that happen with our starting 5, let alone, when we start substituting. Obviously… seeing Self jiggle the lineup so much indicates he’s searching for flow. It isn’t just about a player coming in and getting some points.

    Where we are is frustrating. We have enough talent on this team to become a solid contender… but we play like a November team. We better keep our fingers crossed in hopes we don’t hit some bad luck, like injuries come on. Our current margin for victory is razor-thin. We are capable of losing to every team in our league. Hate to say this… but with a little bad luck we could face the worst results since Self arrived here.

    We had some crude play in recent years and Self turned to defense to save us. We appropriately named it “bad ball” because of the ugliness of games. I don’t see this team being capable of defending enough for us to sweat through league games and come out on top.

    Unless we show an evolutionary breakthrough soon… I remain pessimistic about our chances this year.

    I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

    Agree that Remy is the emotional leader on the floor which is a little sad considering al the experience returning to this team. I do think Och is trying to develop that aspect of his game but might go against his natural tendencies. The brightest spot in that development WAS the end of that ISU game. After that last ISU bucket, he ran to the ball and DEMANDED it. Not something we’ve seen a lot of from Och. Yes, in the end he did give it up to Harris of all people to make the final play, but Och initiated which I think is key. I’m sure everyone thought Ochai would take the last shot which is why Harris was able to get to the rim (well, close to it at least). We also saw him trying to will himself and the team to victory. I think back to the deep three off the pass at the top of the key from Braun, and the pull up jumper at the elbow after a spin move to get open. He’s trying to learn when to take what the d gives and when to take over and initiate. It’s not an easy balance to find.

    I’ve been in the camp for a while that believes this team’s fate is unfortunately tied to the ability of Dave to produce. If Och can find that next level where he can truly impose his will on a game, that might not be true. I’d love for that development to be on d as well but one step at a time.

    Bill thinks Och is the one. His comments after that game make that clear. Leading a team is a big job and Och is learning it’s about more than making 47% of your 3 pointers. He’d be my pick too. He isn’t a GREAT leader yet but there’s still time and I’m taking that ISU game as evidence that he is making progress.



  • @kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @Marco that’s just wrong and ridiculous.

    Frank played 33, 33 and 36 his last three years here.

    Dtae’ played 32, 35 and 37

    Get out of here with our best lead guard shouldn’t play 30 mpg this is asinine

    The reason that they played so many minutes as seniors - Frank 36 Devonte 37 - is because we had no depth. Remy is not going to play 37 mpg, period. If you believe such a reality to be asinine, that would be your problem not mine. Btw I said that Remy would probably not play over 30 mpg, didn’t say that he shouldn’t play 30. Why would you play him for much more than that? What, no one else gets playing time?



  • If Remy were deserving of 35+ minutes a game, he’d be playing that much. He is not close to Frank, Graham etc



  • I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.



  • Not a good comparison… Frank and Devonte versus Remy. F and D had no good backups. If they had, they would have played much less. You could see the wear and tear on those guys as the year progressed and I seriously doubt Remy’s physique can go that long in the Big 12 without even more injuries.

    Beyond that… Self looks for flow on the court. He’ll keep guys out there usually when the flow is good. He will also pull guys that clearly need a blow.

    I believe our issues are much deeper than whether Remy puts in 30 or 35 minutes.

    Now that Bobby is back… he will have to get some minutes. He needs that for future seasoning. Listen to Self… Bobby is the future at KU!



  • @rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

    That’s why we saw KJ “start” while playing 10 minutes.



  • @BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

    That’s why we saw KJ “start” while playing 10 minutes.

    I agree but he also played the last 30 seconds as well.



  • @BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    That’s why we saw KJ “start” while playing 10 minutes.

    I think it is more about Self willing to try anything to get production out of the 5. He knew starting him would bring extra energy… and this team needs to play with more energy!

    I thought KJ played with great poise! He was energized but for the most part in control from playing too sped up.

    This team needs a spark! I’m trying to stay hopeful because dropping a bunch of games now would create a disaster. Hopefully Remy will be back soon and Bobby can get comfortable.

    For now, I expect Self will keep rotating at the 5 because it gives some motivation for those guys to earn minutes.



  • CRIMSON/BLUE GLASSES ON:

    Okay… I’ve been offering up doom and gloom. Here is my best attempt at a bright, sunny season!

    Many great things happen as we go on a winning streak and do not lose anymore games this year. On to the National Title!

    1. Remy gets his health back and comes on big to lead this team! He takes a few more shots and lifts his stat line, making teams honest and forced to guard him out high.

    2. JalenW goes on a scoring spree! Next game he gets hot and decides he belongs near the top of our stat sheet in points, while silently dominating the boards, too.

    3. Dajuan tightens up his game… takes more open shots and finishes at the rim when it is there. He improves his assist/TO ratio by cutting down on mistakes while being a better playmaker.

    4. Big D gets it together and becomes Mr. C (consistency) for this team by averaging near a double-double every game while steadily improving his defense.

    5. Och finally realizes his need to become a true volume scorer. He figures out it takes more than just him creating his own offense so he stays late in practice with other teammates to develop more opportunities for him to score. He definitely yearns to get the ball at crunch time, and becomes a deadeye when given the chance.

    6. CB makes the adjustment on offense as he now plays against tougher competition so he becomes the Superman he was early on in the season by challenging Och for scoring stats every game… 20+.

    7. KJ and Mitch step up their roles with the goal of consistency set down by Big D in the post. Suddenly we have depth, production, and consistency in the post!

    8. Bobby comes on as the season progresses. His body heals and his speed increases! He makes the most of his minutes and gives us needed energy on the court. One of the pieces in helping this team speed up their game!

    9. JaCol becomes comfortable in his role as assassin! Comes off the bench and averages 10 a game in limited minutes.

    10. Quality team play finally arrives! Our D tightens up. Guys start guarding and weakside help is there. Players stop making mistakes on switches. Players seal off the boards. High energy on defense forces teams out of running their stuff (like TT does). On offense… guys start setting off-ball screens to help each other. 1 thru 4 drives the ball. Our post player mixes it up from running a little back to the basket offense to popping out for high ball screens. How about mid range screens? Everything runs well because we keep HIGH ENERGY throughout the game! The body language of our guys is very positive! Heads are up, smiles, high fives, encouraging each other… even our bench becomes totally animated as we kick the crap out of everyone!

    Okay… lets make that happen!



  • @drgnslayr I honestly think if 2 or 3 of those happen, this team can win the big 12 and half or more has KU contending for a title. The team just isn’t THAT far away and as tech showed on Tuesday, no team is unbeatable.



  • @benshawks08 @drgnslayr agreed if 1,2 and 4 happen 11-7 goes to 13-4 in my mind real quick.

    Jalen was so good to start last year and he’s been awful shooting the ball this year. I didn’t know it was possible to be that bad after last year he shot it fine.

    Dave is the mystery if he could have some confidence it’d help. He was right in the middle of the huddle locked on coach at the end of the game that he wasn’t even in. That’s solid character really hope he succeeds.



  • @drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

    Winner, winner chicken dinner. The group consisting of Och, Braun, Dave, and Jalen need to show us something. I need to see some badass.



  • @Jethro said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

    Winner, winner chicken dinner. The group consisting of Och, Braun, Dave, and Jalen need to show us something. I need to see some badass.

    You and me both Jethro. I wanna see some bad ass - -I don’t give a flyin rats ass if they DO have a little bit of an attitude , like you said Alpha. - I want to see where the guys almost let opposing teams -you don’t belong of the Court with us We need that person that refuses to let us lose - -that edge



  • @rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

    Great point about the new transfer rules. Definitely something that every coach now needs to think about.



  • Late addition:

    1 1. Joseph adds a spark with his quickness allowing us to run fast through all 40 minutes!



  • @drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    Late addition:

    1 1. Joseph adds a spark with his quickness allowing us to run fast through all 40 minutes!

    He also might have a bit of dare I say it, a chip?? After he gave up that ugly turn over he worked his butt off to make up for it.



  • @benshawks08 loved that possession. Showed an extra gear and intensity. Want the kid on the court when we absolutely need a stop.


Log in to reply