Brannen Greene
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@AsadZ They fired Mangino and Ted Owens. Both those issues have been addressed.
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If I was told when Roy abbandoned KU for UNC that KU would be able to hire a coach that would allow the team to finish top 2 in the Big 12 every year, would make the Jayhawks a top 15 team every year, and would win a National Championship (or more). I wouldn’t turn him away.
Which coach that KU could have hired in that time frame that could’ve done the same or more?
Bill has his warts, but who doesn’t? Coach K is the best coach in America, but I don’t want him. Coach Cal is the best recruiter in America, but I don’t want him either. I feel that Bill represents the University as well as anyone can.
I wish I spent as much time in practice watching the team play as many of the posters on this site do. It’s quite clear they have a better feel for how playing time should be dispensed than the coach.
I too am disappointed by less than perfection, but I realize that it is college kids trying to execute a plan drawn out by one of the 50 best coaches in the world. I too have college interns that I must train every summer for help. It sucks. Kids don’t want to work. They aren’t prepared to work. And their parents will usually enable them to be worthless. It takes me all year to whip them into shape and then the most promising ones don’t come back (dang OADs) but you’ve got to take the help you can recruit and run with it.
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@BeddieKU23 I think you missed that @AsadZ want’s Self gone, not Greene.
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@dylans I guess when KU has another early exit after somehow winning the Big 12 and getting a high seed you will remain happy & content in that HCBS did it in his way
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@dylans I don’t buy the practice thing…last couple years I was fine taking the “let’s enjoy the process” line when we were very, very young. This year, Self doesn’t get that level of room to operate. We’re experienced, we’re talented, and we got a Summer to get a jump start on the rest of the college bball world.
It was squandered against a depleted MSU team and the things we thought Self learned this Summer are no where to be seen. What we do see is the same type of decion-making that has been our archilles heel year in - year out.
Yes, one game, but him tinkering within his system, making what is evidently poor player personnel and scheme decisions made this one loss decisive. No free pass this year.
#FreeHunter #FreeGreene
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@Bwag Very well said
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I totally understand the KU has a bunch of spoiled fans sentiment.
One loss…I wonder what MSU message boards sounded like last year after they lost to KU at home?
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@dylans Tom Izzo was very much interested in the KU job in 2003 and was the second choice had Self decided to stay at Illinois. Given his track record, I don’t think many people would’ve minded him patrolling the sideline in AFH. KU was and still is a program that will attract the elite of the elite coaching prospects because KU is a top 5 job in the country.
As for MSU fans reactions to losing to KU in ORLANDO last year, they weren’t freaking out because Izzo regularly loses some early season contests and his teams get better from those losses. That’s been Izzo’s history for 20 years so when it happens, it’s not a big deal.
As for why people are mad about KU losing to MSU, it has nothing to do with MSU. They’re a top 15 team and will be very good again this year. People are mad because Self said he learned a lot from the WUG, but he hasn’t changed at all and the biggest culprits in that loss are the same issues KU has had for the past 2 years that lead to first weekend losses on the NCAA tournament.
When someone says they’ve learned to adapt to a new style, but when they’re feet are put to the fire and revert back to their old ways, people are going to feel mad about being fed a load of crap and buying into Self’s statements of change.
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Its not just about one game. Its about how things have been going on for the past 2 plus years. Its about not playing your best players. Its about punishing deserving players from getting PT. Its about continuing to force players to play in a way that is against their strengths. Its about my way or the highway attitude. Its about continued early losses in the tourney. Its about recruiting failures. The list goes on.
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A sad Z
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I’m not saying this is Self… but I’ve been wondering if some coaches have become extremely envious of their own players.
Think about it for a second…
Andrew Wiggins is just a kid. He has only been out in the “real world” for 18 months and he is probably worth 5-10 times more money than the very best D1 coach makes and has saved.
Egos are a huge part of any sports.
Just makes me wonder.
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@drgnslayr maybe fans
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Crimson Yes, I am feeling sad especially for Greene
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@dylans Thanks man, maybe, just maybe AsadZ was in Chicago hitting that same blunt, man some people adios AsadZ they can use people like you down in Cowtown, good luck in postseason any kind of post season, that statement of getting rifd of self is about like me saying I’m going to be the next president
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@BeddieKU23 six games is NOT to much. This is Greene 3rd time in 3 years if he were on a lot of other teams his butt would be OUT. he needs to learn how to grow the hell up, quite throwing tantrums and acting like a junior high JV player instead of trying to be mature and be part of this team. Everytime he acts out and pulls a bone head move skipping class, late for practices, talking smack to the coach. There is a way to go about your frustration & it is sure not out on the floor during the game OR in the locker room in front of your team mates that your pretty much calling out saying your better then they are. You take it to the office with Coach and talk one on one not on the floor. What did he really think he was going to accomplish by doing this during the game? Maybe coach saying OH OK Greene your right my bad go ahead go back and check in, Hell trade me clothes give me your uniform I’ll play and you coach YA ok how’s that working for ya holy crap
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Is part of adapting to a new style, help me out- - -it the so called new style now is that part of that new style where you guards your pint and your 2 is that include where they drive wild and blind down the lane, over penetrate nad have no where to go where the result is a blocked shot a turnover or a wild fling up over there head? OR is it where they can throw it out and let our guys clang another 3pt shot attempt up off the rim, OR is a part of this new style a former two guard moved to the three and he is now an Animal on the backboards just terrorizing the opponents from his rebounding? Help me out clear it up so I can appreciate this new system- - this new style that’s surpose to be such a devastating offense
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My wish is (not bashing HCBS) that in the future HCBS will stay away from recruiting sharp shooting 3 point shooting assassins like Greene/White. He doesn’t use them and doesn’t value their craft. It would save me a lot of heart ache.
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@DoubleDD Not to mention Frankamp
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Why recruit players like White, Greene, Svi, CF, Galindo if we aren’t going to use their talents. KU needs to focus their recruiting efforts on players that actually fit the system. Stop going after the cream of the crop because they’re the best and instead get guys that are the best high low ballers. The Big12 football coaches don’t recruit smash mouth players because the Big12 is an air it out conference. So why does KUMBB go after three ballers when it’s fools gold?!? Next time I beg that Self passes on that highly touted sharp shooter and saves us the misery of watching them ride the pine.
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@Kip_McSmithers remember it works both ways, the players know selfs system when they sign. We had some pretty good wings, but then again I don’t think coach dislikes the 3.
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To be fair HCBS said himself that shooting the 3 is fools gold. I wonder how Greene/White/Conner felt when they heard that?
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@DoubleDD Exactly. Sending wrong message to the players. Self needs to be held accountable.
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@DoubleDD That’s a fair point…why recruit 3 pt shooters if you are not going to use them. I would imagine, however, that Self explained to these guys that they would have to play D, etc, in order to earn playing time.
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@AsadZ We don’t know what went on with Greene, so we can’t really judge whether 6 games is fair or not. What if Greene was screaming, threatening, throwing things, swearing at the coach? We don’t know. As others have pointed out, it must have been pretty bad for his parents to be involved. You are entitled to your opinion (that’s what this site is for) and I feel your pain on the early exits…I do. But, don’t you think Self’s track record, overall, is awfully good, to be wanting another coach? At least see what this team does in the tournament?
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@DoubleDD said:
To be fair HCBS said himself that shooting the 3 is fools gold. I wonder how Greene/White/Conner felt when they heard that?
Only Greene was a part of the KU roster when Self said this last February. AW3 was in Lincoln for over a semester and CF was already at WSU for a little over a month.
Just sayin it only affected one of those three. I’m sure Greene, Selden, Mason and Svi were all a little taken back by it as they were hitting this shots and to a point so was Perry
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@Hawk8086 I agree that Self has been a great coach. He has won a lot of games although I do believe that he has benefited from playing mostly in AFH where home crowd is a big X factor that has helped his winning %.
I do not dislike him. Actually I like him a lot. I used to show his work to my children as an inspiration. What I am trying to point out is that over the last 2-3 years things have not been the same. Losses are increasing. We are exiting the tourney early to inferior teams. Recruiting misses are increasing and what’s most frustrating is how Self is continuing to mismanage the talent. He has talent in the team. The team has experience. But he continues to force his philosophy on the players that is working against their talent. Why recruit players like AW3, Greene, CF when you don’t use their arsenal and send wrong message to them by using comments like Fools Gold. I am sure you can understand what I am saying here. He continues to put a square peg through a round hole. The other issue with Self is that he is not good at coaching during the games. He is either not capable or refuses to make changes during the game based on the situation at hand. As such he is getting outcoached more & more. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. After the WUG he made a comment to the effect that I learned a lot here, and I was really encouraged that he will make some changes to his style. But so far it has been the same old Self.
In summary while he has a great track record at KU the recent body of work is on the wrong track and I believe that he is losing the edge, and don’t forget that he gets paid a lot of money.
Is it unfair to ask for accountability?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said “… but then again I don’t think coach dislikes the 3.”
Parsing words.
How about “disdain” instead of “dislike”?
Disdain: the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one’s consideration or respect; contempt.
That’s the right word.
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@HighEliteMajor as I said, I, meaning me, do not think coach dislikes the 3. You use your own words for your own thoughts.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Well, whether you like it or not, or disdain it or not, if I think your words might be wrong, I might decide to reply.
That is unless you, like coach Self, are beyond reproach.
And, as usual, only sniping and cute little responses vs. substance. But to each their own.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yea it does work both ways but Self and Co offer the scholarships to these kids that don’t fit in to his preferred system. If they didn’t target square pegs and then offer them the scholarships there wouldn’t be one to accept. And you’re right, Greene and White should have known better but the effects of KU offering you a scholarship has to cloud your judgement
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@Kip_McSmithers This isn’t just directed to you, but I’ve seen similar posts from several other people where the premise is that these very good shooters should not have chosen KU and its in part their fault that they aren’t getting the playing time they want. Wasn’t Bmac a similar mold to these guys? Wasn’t he the man when Greene chose KU? I don’t fault the recruits at all. Not to mention we have no clue what line they were fed by the recruiters. Its very reasonable to think that Greene could have been told his game is similar to Ben’s and led him to believe that they would use him in the same way.
I don’t understand how the offense ran so well for Bmac by getting him always involved in the offense but now we don’t come anywhere close to doing the same for even better shooters (according to Self). Mystifying.
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@HighEliteMajor yes, I am beyond reproach!
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@AsadZ Accountability is fine. But this year’s recruiting class is not complete. Last year’s was good with Bragg and Vick. We won another conference title last year. Maybe we will again this year. Maybe we will go to the final four this year. Or…maybe not on both. Let’s let it play out. We were in the final four in 2012 and missed the last 3 I just don’t think that is anywhere close to calling for a new coach.
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In real life, the only new coach who could possibly be better than Self is an improved Self.
@HighEliteMajor and others are not calling for another coach, they’re suggesting adjustments to improve the current one.
During the recent gale of criticism, I have been piling on a little, but I am such a featherweight that no one felt a thing.
There are some things I don’t understand, mainly “Fool’s Gold” and “Energy”. Usually when I don’t understand someone’s behavior, either I don’t have all the information or I don’t fully understand that person’s motivation.
Maybe Self believes in the Big 12 more than he believes in the NCAA? Maybe he just doesn’t care as much anymore about a tournament that enriches such an organization.
Personally, I wish we could find another end of year tournament to play in.
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@Hawk8086 I am on board with that and lets see how things turn out over the course of this year. Personally I will be Ok if we don’t win the Big 12 as long as we have a deep run in the tourney although getting both will be really fun. And I hope that we get to see an improved version of Bill Self in the areas I have been advocating here.
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I hope we don’t lose Self…
But if we did, the only guy I see coming in (at this moment) is Danny Manning. He has been cutting his teeth for a little while now. We know he can develop players, especially big guys. We could regain the title “Big Man U.”
Mark Turgeon is building some steam, too… I just don’t see him as being as popular as Danny.
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I agree with you. Coach Self’s comment need to be taken in context. The famous…or should I day Infamous comment about the 3 being fool’s gold was made referring more to “depending” on the 3 rather than using it, and he is right, the 3 can vary quite a bit from game to game where the more conventional inside scoring tends to be more even and reliable. Unfortunately, some will take comments out of context to fit their narrative, nothing really new there…standard fare in our daily lives and politicians and pundits make a living doing it.
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E. Elliot the RB from tOSU calls out Urban and Co in the national media and gets zero games on the pine. BG does it behind closed doors and gets slapped with SIX. Legit.
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@Kip_McSmithers wasn’t behind closed doors, started jawing on the bench. Plus he’s had a few other problems w/discipline
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I don’t think it was that out there. If it was then why was there any speculation on the why of his suspension? I know it started on the bench and then the locker room but he wasn’t mic’ed up for it. Do you know what BG said exactly? Anyone that hasn’t been under a rock the last two days knows what Elliott said.
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@Kip_McSmithers said:
E. Elliot the RB from tOSU calls out Urban and Co in the national media and gets zero games on the pine. BG does it behind closed doors and gets slapped with SIX. Legit.
I said this in another thread but it is worth repeating about Urban Meyers. He never suspended Hernandez at Florida even though he knew he was carrying a gun around. Look where that got Hernandez?
Urban isn’t about the players, or their growth as young men. He in it for his legacy and bonus checks for winning.
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@JRyman Ok, yet again, JT Barret blew a 0.09, was compliant with police, it’s his first offense, it’s a misdemeanor, etc. OSU was not required to suspend him due to university or NCAA policy yet they did anyways. On top of his suspension they took away the summer semester for him (i.e. doesn’t receive his stipend and still can’t work because of NCAA rules, nor can he take any classes, which puts him behind to graduate).
Stop acting like Barrett didn’t receive any punishment, and stop acting like JT is the second coming of a guy that is in jail for murder because he did something that each and every one of us did in college.
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@MoonwalkMafia ok what did I say about Barret? My comment was about Elliot their RB who spoke out against his coaches and the play calling to the press after their loss to Michigan state Saturday night. (Which is what is rumored BG did sans the media)
That’s what I was referencing and how Urban Meyer let’s his stars go Scott free like he did in Florida. Hernandez is the biggest of those names, but you could also look into the Pouncey brothers why they were at Florida. It was all clouded up by the ever popular golden boy Tim Tebow.
Urban wants to win and will do it at the cost of society and not his players.
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@JRyman Ok, but yet again, Elliott lobbying for more carries is not the same as Aaron Hernandez (a convicted murderer) getting caught with a gun… I mean, you have to know that, right?
Elliott has 2 mores games left at OSU. Brannen Greene got suspended because he’s a repeat offender. Elliott has been a model player and said something in the heat of the moment (which he was right about). Brannen Green and Ezekiel Elliott are not quite the same, wouldn’t you say? Urban Meyer has suspended every player for offenses that warranted a suspension. These offenses are not quite the same.
As a side not, I wonder if Self would’ve suspended Greene if KU were heading into the last/second to last game of the season.
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Going to a tourney with seeding biased for eyeballs, as Bary Hinson said, and apparently biased by Refs appearing to use no calls and phantom calls to manage some spreads and maybe some outcomes is like trying to win your girl a birthday present at a crooked carnival with a barker that doesnt like you.
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@MoonwalkMafia ok I’ll give that comparing Jernadez and Elkiot are a far cry from each other. Yet Jernandez was never suspended while at Florida. So that dismisses your argument that good ole Urb suspends players when they deserved it.
Urb actually covered it up at Florida so Hernandez wouldn’t be expelled. This has been mentioned by more than one ex player and U of Florida students.
As for Elliot going live after his coaches to the masses in my opinion, just mine, is more selfish than what Greene did at practice.
Is Greene a repeat offender for calling his coaches out? Or for just being a head case?
Both Elliot and Greene are hyper competitive athletes and that causes these issues about carries and playing time. Are they both deserving? Probably. Did they go about it the right ways? No.
Just because the .09 BAL(Blood Alcohol Level) isn’t against the university or team rules per the letter of their law it is against the law in all 50 States. Sometimes leaders, be it coaches or bosses need to step in and help young people understand that their actions have consequences. He could have easily killed someone at that BAL with delayed reactions. Then what???
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@JRyman Ok, he passed the sobriety test, so let’s not act like he was falling over. And like I already pointed out, Barrett received a proper punishment, in my opinion. As someone who’s gone to summer school every year in college, getting the summer taken away from me would be devastating. It puts you behind on graduating by 9-12 credits. So again, in my opinion, the Barrett case is shut.
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@MoonwalkMafia it is shut. But as someone who has spent a lot of time on the roads. City, highways and interstates .09 is dangerous behind the wheel of a 2 ton vehicle.
I have known guys personally and spoken with many state patrolmen that have blown or seen someone blow over twice the legal limit and yet passed the field sobriety test. Flawlessly.
Am I flawless in my driving after a few? No. So I will step down from the pulpit on this and let it go.
Jus saying Urban Meyers picks and chooses who he suspends and when.
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Are you down playing drunken driving? I can guess you have never had someone taken from you by an intoxicated driver. And your casual ways about it also make me think you drive under the influence. Barrett is only 20 years old. Legal drinking age is 21 last time I checked. Urban went easy on him like JRyman said. Brady Morningstar was 36 when he got his DUI at KU. He missed more than a game. That’s a punishment that fits the crime.
And the whole taking the summer semester from him! Oh no! He’s a red shirt sophomore which means he can declare for the draft if he’s stock is high enough. C Jones is going to declare and Barrett beat him out so what’s to stop his people from hyping him in to declaring and forgoing his last two years?
