Burnt Ends
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The WUG has given us an early indication for how the team will shape up this year. There are a lot of things I have seen that I really like a lot. The biggest thing is the pace. The shot clock has forced the team to play fast, to push the bull up the floor, to run. I’ve been saying for years that KU has slowed down way too much. Having the best athletes on the floor you should be trying to play as fast as possible. The team in '08 would beat the other team down the court for a layup after they have just given up a basket. I want to see that style of play return. Hoping the shorter shot clock (30sec) and practicing/playing with an even shorter shot clock (24sec) at the WUG convinces the players and coaches that this is the style best suited for them. They’ve even sprinkled in some press which is great too. Play fast, play loose, be aggressive.
I’m sticking to my prediction weeks ago that the starting lineup will be Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, and Diallo. I expect Svi and Vick will be first guards off the bench with Greene getting spot duty but mostly out of the rotation. Mickelson has played great and is the clear cut best big off the bench. He may even start the first few games before Diallo “earns” the starting spot but that’s TBD. As great as Mick has been, Diallo is going to be far better. Bragg should be the other big to get minutes and think we will see him improve a lot this year. I expect Traylor to get spot minutes but mostly against zone or when the team needs an “energy boost.” Lucas’ implosion at halftime of the Serbia game was bad. Showed immaturity and as a fan, is not what I want to see out there representing KU and I’m betting Self feels the same way. At this point, I think he is the prime candidate for a first class seat in the cryo deep freeze chamber.
The biggest question for me right now is with Svi and Greene. Will Svi be much improved as many have speculated that he will be? Will Greene be able to recover from his surgery early enough to not be completely buried behind everyone else? Is there a chance that Greene takes a medical redshirt?
@jaybate-1.0 I agree that Vick looks pretty good so far but predicting him as a TAD seems like a stretch to me. I’m thinking he will be in Lawrence for at least 3 years, most likely 4.
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Let’s temper our expectation on Diallo some. We have yet to see him play a game in college and he is already being anointed a starter and even candidate for Conference POY. Let’s wait and see and give him time to develop his game; we had high hopes for Alexander last season and that did not work out that well, right?
BTW, I am not singling you out specifically but I am talking about all the high expectations for Diallo being bandied about.
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I have no doubt before this season is over Diallo is the starter beside Ellis. I love what Hunter is doing in the WUG’s but I’m afraid he is benefiting from the international style of play. Not sure that will carry over to D1. Lucas looks the same and even frustrated at times. Not good. Traylor is well Traylor. He’ll get is playing time.
If Hunter, Lucas, and Traylor were all that then last year wouldn’t have been such a dude. Now players can improve. Yet other than Hunter do you see a big improvement? I see Diallo getting the nod just because he’s going to have the most talent and highest upside. The ??? for me is Bragg.
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@JayHawkFanToo Good point. After Cliff’s performance last year I think we can all step back and assume that guys will take awhile to develop. Actually, who was the last KU post player to have a huge impact his freshman year not named Joel Embiid?
I tend to agree that Diallo should start by mid season. Some of this is based on hype and an assumption that he will be a stud. Some of this is based on the fact that Landen and Bam Bam are simply not D1 top 5 team in the country starters. They are role players on a team the caliber of KU, plain and simple.
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On Diallo, if he can’t come in and be a starter and make a significant impact, then why waste the time? We expect a lot of presumed OADs because we won’t see the development down the road.
Freshmen have a learning curve. But we have every right to expect nearly immediate production from a guy that is using Kansas as one year pit stop.
If it’s a guy that is committed to being around and developing, I have a much different attitude.
If Diallo isn’t an immediate impact, and isn’t a big minutes starter, we have wasted our time.
Embiid translated to nothing in March. Cliff translated to nothing in March.
It is very reasonable to understand freshmen need to develop.
It is also very reasonable to expect much more out of presumed OADs than the normal freshman, and to be more impatient, and to be more critical of the lack of production commensurate with their ranking.
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I’ve watched and re-watched those springtime classics in which Diallo walked off with MVP trophies. He is no fluke. Barring injury, this kid is a 3rd or 4th year Kevin Young with more wingspan and upside. Granted, he must adjust quickly to Bill Self Defense or he will not get immediate 25+ minute playing time. But his energy and instincts are off the charts for an incoming freshman. I am much more sure of Diallo than I was of Wiggins prior to his first appearances in a Jayhawk uniform. Diallo probably has more to learn than did Wiggins, at this stage, and he might not have as big an NBA upside; but he is going to impact KU Hoops just as much or more than did Andrew. If Mickelson can keep a’comin’, he and Diallo are going to make life delightful for Perry, Wayne, Frank and the other key players. Someone recently wrote that Self’s bench will be deadly. Man, do I ever second that postulation!
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Not to flog a wounded horse too harshly, but my best advice to Greene: Seriously consider opting for a red shirt. A fully healthy fourth and fifth year of experience, and YOU ARE ONE OF THE MEN!
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@HighEliteMajor said:
Embiid translated to nothing in March.
A bit harsh, considering he wasn’t a presumed OAD and he was missing because of injury.
Also, remember he was expected to come back for the second weekend. Embiid didn’t let us down, Self let Embiid down by letting himself be outcoached against Stanford.
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It really depends on how you see him and who applies the OAD label. I prefer to see him as TAD and if he develops fast he can turn into a OAD. Alexander could have been a TAD and 1st round pick instead of having to prove himself in the Summer League; Selby was the Summer League MVP and he still could not stay in the League.
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@ParisHawk By the time he hit campus, he was a presumed OAD – I regularly cite the Rick Pitino comment about Kansas possibly having the top two pick in the draft. A comment made in July of 2013. And I’m just talking the results. We got nothing from either Embiid or Cliff in March. Harsh? Sure. True? Sure.
@JayHawkFanToo Who in the basketball world does not presume that Diallo is a OAD? The word presumed means something. We all know nothing is for sure. He is in that group right now that is presumed to turn pro by nearly everyone. You cite Cliff and Selby as apparently folks that should have stayed – yet they were both presumed OADs that turned into OADs. My point is not what folks should do – it’s what they actually do. Your citation of Cliff and Selby enforce the point that many of these guys get their value in their head, and despite logic, still turn pro.
Also, when the man himself says he’s plans on being an OAD, that means something too … here’s what Diallo said: "When asked if he sees himself as a one-and-done, Diallo, who has been compared to Serge Ibaka of the Oklahoma City Thunder, said, ‘Of course, yes. That’s what I’m looking for.’ ” Here’s the article where Diallo made the comments.
I certainly hope Diallo stays. But no one can presume that when he’s a top 5 recruit, and listed as going anywhere from 4-8 in mock drafts right now. And I’m sure Self won’t assume that he’s staying n his recruiting. He’ll assume he’s leaving – thus “presumed.”
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@jaybate-1.0 Are the lanes still going to be the same size in Div 1 or did they widen them? Wouldn’t the faster shot clock help in that regard as well?
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@HighEliteMajor Remember, Self has a penchant for giving his upperclass men the start at the beginning of the season and letting his OAD/TAD players work their way into starting. I would assume it will be the same with Diallo. Hunter gets the start at first, till Diallo “gets it”
Of course, this is all of it, just pure speculation. But, besides Wiggs and Selden a couple years ago, he really doesn’t let his freshmen get out from the toughening box very often.
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@HighEliteMajor said:
I regularly cite the Rick Pitino comment about Kansas possibly having the top two pick in the draft.
I thought Pitino said the top pick two years in a row, but having searched I see your memory is better than mine.
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Self is already building the hype around Diallo:
"I can’t wait to get back and see him because if our fans find out anything about that kid is that some of the hardest playing guys that we’ve ever had, Chieck may play harder than any of them. He’s going to be a fun guy to watch. He’s got an unbelievable motor.”
He is already stating that this kid hustles more than any player he has previously coached at Kansas.
O A D !
Diallo only wanted to go to a school where he would get plenty of PT. That’s the sound kids make when they want to jump to the league quickly.
Unless he gets hurt or screws up off the court or something else unforeseen, it is very unlikely he will be back as a sophomore.
I’d love to have this kid for several years… but seriously… he’ll put up a stat line at least equaling Oubre. Oubre was one player down from being a lottery pick and he is guaranteed a contract.
O A D !
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@Lulufulu I still think Traylor starts with Ellis in game one. Energy, ya know.
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I don’t presume Diallo to be OAD. I think he is so raw on offense and until he proves he is a shot blocker at the college level he is going to be back. I hope he does prove that and that he can develop quickly. We just need a Montrezl Harrell type of season out of him. He just needs to be intimidating in the lane and make energy plays.
IF he does holy crap. I mean with the way Wayne and Frank are dominating, and the projection of how Svi is going to look this season we should be in for a 30+ win season.
My last thought. I know I’ll be in the minority. But I still think Svi is going to start this year. Only because if he plays like I think, and many NBA scouts think, guarding him AND Wayne at the same time is going to be a friggen nightmare. Plus, just if Frank gets in foul trouble that spells a long game for Devonte. Or worse, they both get in foul trouble and we have no point. I want to run two guard, just maybe not to start the game.
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Adding to my point that you can’t presume Diallo a OAD is this KC Star article. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/campus-corner/article19399905.html
Its more like a 60% chance he leaves if you ask me…
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I just can’t see how Diallo doesn’t fill the bill. I know a lot of OAD’s don’t fulfill what they are supposed to be. Yet this kid just doesn’t rely on talent to prove his game. He has a motor that runs on high octane fuel. See when he played against the best OAD’s in the country and walked away MVP twice. That has to count for something.
In fact I would say Diallo doesn’t get enough love. Sadly and I hate to say it, but if this kid was at UK, Duke, or UNC OMG Espn would be creaming all over themselves to promote this kid.
Diallo will be starting for this season is over. I don’t see any of KU’s big men matching or just doing what he can do, even the designer.
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@REHawk Your take on Diallo is exactly the same as mine. I have done my research on this one and feel confident about it. Obviously there is no such thing as a sure thing but in my opinion, this guy is pretty much the perfect fit for this year’s team.
I do think there is a chance he stays for 2 years only to develop some offensive skills. But, its just a small chance.
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I am just glad Diallo is on campus attending classes and working with Hudy! I was actually worried that the Vegas Gamblers might snatch him up while HCBS was away?
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same size as far as I recall, but they may have changed the semi circle around the hoop. Can Anyone else answer lulu’s q on change in lane size?
Regarding the 30 second clock, Watching the 24 second clock has change my expectation. 30 may be too long to have much effect. It will take special defenses—pressing full court and falling back into matchup zones to make the 30 second much of a strategic factor. KU’s players are going to think 30 is forever, after 24.
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Re Diallo, a motor has never been enough for Self…ever.
TRob had an awesome motor as a freshman. He was terrible.
Kevin Young had a great motor, and arrived more mature, but he had to learn to drive first.
Motors are only useful AFTER you know how to drive.
The driver is everything.
As the Beatles sang:
“I don’t have a car, but you can be my driver… Baby, you can drive my car…”
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Actually the paint is wider.
Also maybe a motor isn’t enough but when a player walks away twice with the MVP playing against the best upcoming talent in the world should count for something. One time could be a fluke but twice and I believe three? No I’ll take the motor of Diallo. Trob and KYoung could only dream of having the talent Diallo has. Just my thoughts.
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Cool. That will increase the drive ball!
Hope they lower the clock to 24 the next season, so our guys are on a level playing field in foreign play and when they get to the NBA.
As far as Diallo’s first season being better than TRob’s last, that’s some serious amount of better.
I will have to see that to believe it!!!
But it would mean a ring I reckon, so…
ROCK CHALK!!!
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What a player thinks and what ends up happening are often enough quite different. Every single player in the to 30 considers himself a OAD but very few actually end up that way. Like I said, I prefer to see them as TAD and if they can work themselves to be true OAD, i.e. one that gets selected in the first round, then it means they played very productively for KU and I am good with that; however, if they end up like Selby or Alexander I feel KU and themselves got shorthanded. McLemore and Wiggins did well and they were worthy lottery picks. Selden was a presumed OAD and looks like it will be in his third year when he puts everything together and plays himself into a lottery pick.
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I"m hanging my hat on it. Diallo will be good as advertised. Of course he’ll have to learn how not to foul as all freshman do.
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I’m not a fan of the OAD either. I more in favor go to college you have to stay for 3 years. That’s just me. However sadly Diallo will be gone after his lone season with KU. On the bright side I see a championship in the future, and I’m not talking conference either.
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Amen to that
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@Kcmatt7 Ok, I read the blog you cited. What in that blog provides any insight suggesting that Diallo is not a presumed OAD?
@JayHawkFanToo Thanks for the insight. So, what a player thinks … meaning what is in his mind … and what ends up happening … meaning the final result … may actually be quite different? Very helpful. But what does that have to do with whether Diallo is a presumed OAD as we sit here in July?
You can “prefer to see them as TAD” all you want. You can click your heels and sprinkle pixie dust over their images on your iPad. You can even wish upon a star.
But nothing changes the fact that Diallo is a presumed OAD. The definition of presumed is, “assuming that something is the case on the basis of probability and information.”
Again, there is apparently difficultly understanding the word presumed. That means we should assume that he is an OAD unless we hear otherwise. It would mean that it is reasonable to assume that he is an OAD. It doesn’t mean it will happen for sure.
But Diallo sure as heck isn’t a presumed TAD.
As for stats, in the last 5 seasons, 21 of the 25 top 5 players in the Rivals rankings turned pro after their first CBB season. Last season, every player in the top 10 turned pro.
That would help support the fact that Diallo is a presumed OAD. A Rivals top 5 player is a presumed OAD, really, unless we hear otherwise.
And as for Diallo in particular, we have his intentions, in his own words, to go on top of the inescapable numbers.
In my humble opinion, the only reasonable way to look at this is how @RockkChalkk has stated it – “I do think there is a chance he stays for 2 years only to develop some offensive skills. But, it’s just a small chance.” That is reality. The word “presumed” has meaning.
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@HighEliteMajor The fact that of those guys listed in that article, a35-40% stayed another year or more. I probably should have stated that. So players similarly ranked and at the same position, about 40% stayed. That’s all I meant to say by that.
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@Lulufulu said:
Of course, this is all of it, just pure speculation. But, besides Wiggs and Selden a couple years ago, he really doesn’t let his freshmen get out from the toughening box very often.
Tyshawn started and played big minutes as a freshman. Ben McLemore depending on your view on him could fit this category. I would also cite the Morris twins, but that was because there was no other experienced option to put next to Cole.
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@Kcmatt7 21 out of 25 is 90% so 90% of Rivals top 5 have been OAD in the last 5 years. Even using your 60% number still means more likely than not that Diallo is OAD which still means he’s a presumed OAD.
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If we are talking about changes in NCAA rules, the paint is the same size but the arc under the basket has been expanded from 3 feet to 4 feet. Here is the official NCAA summary of the changes…
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I was referring to the international court. The paint is wider over there. That’s interesting though I had no idea the NCAA was making a change. I mean heard there was talk of it but didn’t know they decided to go through on it.
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All of that to make your usual condescending point for something I did not say?
I did not say that he is not a “presumed” OAD, I simply stated my “own” opinion that I (that means me and me alone) prefer to see him as a TAD and if he ends up being a OAD, it indicates he had a good year which is good for him and good for KU…I am good with that.
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I think his original question was about the NCAA…
“Are the lanes still going to be the same size in Div 1 or did they widen them? Wouldn’t the faster shot clock help in that regard as well?”
In any case several changes but none as big as the shorter shot clock and most are about enforcing the contact rules they introduced a couple of years ago and that have been enforced very unevenly.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is the official NCAA summary of the changes…
I like this one:
…the panel approved a rule that would allow officials to penalize players who fake fouls. The NCAA Men’s Basketball Rules Committee felt that players trying to draw fouls by deception is a growing issue.
The flop rule! How will they be penalized? Do the floppers get charged a foul? That would be very cool.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m challenging your illogical and flawed thought process. On this board, opinions get challenged. If you don’t like being challenged, don’t post your opinions. Better yet, try defending your opinion. I refuted your opinion as illogical. You have nothing, as usual.
You responded to my original post about Diallo being a presumed OAD, as follows:
“It really depends on how you see him and who applies the OAD label. I prefer to see him as TAD and if he develops fast he can turn into a OAD.”
That is clearly, plainly, and irrefutably a challenge to the statement that Diallo (“him”) is a presumed OAD. You say … again pretty clearly … that you see him (Diallo) as a TAD and if he develops, he can “turn into a OAD.” Which is much different than presuming he’s a OAD. You presume him to be a TAD – that’s what you said.
My response then was, basically, who in the basketball world doesn’t view Diallo as a presumed OAD? I also cited Diallo’s comments.
You then responded as follows: “What a player thinks and what ends up happening are often enough quite different. Every single player in the to 30 considers himself a OAD but very few actually end up that way. Like I said, I prefer to see them as TAD …”
You now say that you never said Diallo isn’t a presumed OAD – so it’s only that he is not a presumed OAD in your world?
Your “opinion” makes no sense. I’m interested, as always, as to how you defend your opinion. But you continue to play this silly game of “it’s only my opinion”, expecting that folks won’t challenge it. You did that with @jaybate-1.0 recently.
Guess what, I prefer to view Diallo a four and done. Makes sense, doesn’t it? Just my opinion. Be quiet and don’t challenge it.
The reason for my condescending tone is that it is well deserved.
With you, it’s same story, different verse. I have to admit that I do prefer your double-talk on topics like this, as opposed to when you attempt to wade into the deep end of the pool related to scheme, game planning, etc.
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I think Diallo is good at basketball but that’s just my opinion. Any takers on debating that statement?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Ahhhh yah good point.
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Now I am going to watch Shark week until the games starts tonight. Maybe Fantomworks on the velocity channel? I’m not sure but ya’ll can debate that while I enjoy my evening! Have fun and Rock Chalk Jay Hawk!
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@DoubleDD said:
Also maybe a motor isn’t enough but when a player walks away twice with the MVP playing against the best upcoming talent in the world should count for something. One time could be a fluke but twice and I believe three? No I’ll take the motor of Diallo. Trob and KYoung could only dream of having the talent Diallo has. Just my thoughts.
My thoughts are " I cant freekin wait to see Diallo lace 'em up for KU!! DD is right, the kid can just play and proves it by getting MVP in two tournaments against the best talent coming to Div 1! There is always a learning curve with any freshmen. We saw it with Wigs and with Biid but they improved enough during the year to get picked 1 & 3 respectively.
Why wouldn’t Diallo be able to be a top 5 pick in '16 AND have a killer season helping KU to the Final Four?
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And I forgot to tell you guys that if you like beer? And you like Grapefruit? Then you should try
Its SOOO good!
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@Statmachine Shark week and KU basketball in July! Its like Christmas!!
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@Lulufulu BECAUSE APPARENTLY HE IS A 2AD DUMMY! LOL JK
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Lets just hope he has a good year like our last 2 OAD’s! hahahahahahaha
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@Statmachine Ewww!(puke)
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I will say that it only takes potential to make the lotto. So presumably an OAD is all it takes. Just ask Oubre?
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@Statmachine what would you ask Cliff?
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@Crimsonorblue22 If borrowing money based off your future earnings was worth it?
