Point-Counter Point: Ready for Some Old Wrinkles? :-)



  • @jaybate-1.0

    Would it surprise you that Kaminsky is listed a Forward and not Center? Would it surprise you that with all the height it had, Kentucky lists only Dakari Johnson as Center? and While Okafor is listed as Center, neither UNC or MSU list a single Center? and Virginia lists only Tobey as a F/C? Like I said, true center are hard to come by as tall players nowadays prefer to play forward.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    You are so right that they are calling these footers anything they want to be called and the guys want to be called forwards and forward centers in hopes of not having to be full time rebounders and enforcers in the L. It is a smart move from a career longevity stand point to try to avoid the roles that shorten a career the most.

    But in the end terminology is unimportant. Shell shock became battle fatigue. And battle fatigue became post traumatic stress syndrome. But the they describe the same activity. If you are a big that can shoot the NBA trey you get to play Robert Horry forward and Dirk Nowitsky forward center. But most of the footers can’t pot the triceratop, or put it on the deck ambidextrously , so, even if it becomes fashionable to call them LONG GUARD’s next, most are going to be gutting it out around the paint for a living.

    And again, the reality is that two teams with four near footers reached the Final Four and a third relied on a stretch 5 footer.

    The one team, MSU, that lacked height looked pathetically outmatched.

    Height still rules inside.

    And the trend is going to continue. Overtime there is a drought of dominant footers for a few years, the 6-9 guys rush into the void. But as soon as the footers come back in numbers, they inevitably take the game back.

    There is no way around it.

    Virginia to me represents the most interesting case of size matters. Bennet could not get his hands on any near footers so he tried another smart approach. He put seven or eight 6-8 in his rotation. It worked pretty well until he ran into some teams that could match his 6-8 guys plus throw near footers and trey balling at him; then they came up a day late and a Federal Reserve Debt Note short.

    There is a reason the NBA drafts size from all over the world.

    The future of footers in the NBA and in college is going to be a bifurcation between those that can shoot the trey and those that can pass in the post the way Kanowski did for Gonzaga.

    I really think the only innovation Self has not been in the vanguard of during his tenure at KU is Mark Few reinventing the passing big man game. That was the biggest innovation of the season last year. The passing big man is the absolute best weapon in drive ball and motion the the rim ball.

    Just as we saw Self appropriated XTreme Cheap Shotting from Coach K when he won a ring with it, and appropriated drive ball from Bo Ryan last season after Bo had had such success with it the year before, I suspect Self will appropriated the passing big man offense that Mark Few had his bigs doing so well this past season. This will fit really well with the Carollina Passing offense, if Self will teach his bigs to pass this off season.



  • I’m happy to inspire counterpoints!

    @jaybate-1.0 Let me ask this … Why do you think we need another perimeter player? Now, I think we do as well, but only as insurance. A sixth perimeter guy is terrific depth. But I don’t think we need one to play any role this season. In fact, I would argue that our five perimeter players offer perhaps the most diverse set of skills we have seen on our perimeter since 2008.

    Am I giddy? Maybe.

    But I love our perimeter group. But to reach the levels of my expectations, each will have to make improvement. Essentially, think of it is a trade – Svi for Oubre – and adding a year of experience to each player. We’re better with that.

    Svi will be a better player, all around, than Oubre. Quote me on that. When we look at Svi for 2015-16, he’ll be better than Oubre was in 2014-15.

    Without a doubt, though, this whole deal rides on significant improvement by Selden and Svi. We need Selden to make a significant move forward, and we simply need Svi to play at a level similar to last season with the shots going in at a higher rate.

    If any perimeter player we might sign can beat any of these guys out – as a freshman – I’ll be shocked.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    SVI should start and play as many if not more minutes than Selden.



  • @VailHawk Were you referring to 2014-15, or next season? (I’m funny, aren’t I?) Doesn’t matter, you’re right.

    But don’t lose faith in Selden. Selden’s shooting improved from three and I think it will bump up even more next season. He has been a disappointment based on the hype. But imagine him being the #35 player instead of OAD fringe? What we’ve seen then makes more sense, and it should give us hope for next season.

    By the way, I read your dream sequence last night. 85? Yikes. Did I smell old?



  • @HighEliteMajor

    Not smelly, just wise Morgan freemanesque!



  • @HighEliteMajor

    Not giddy at all. Pretty accurate iand insightful in most ways about who we have coming back as usual.

    Perimeter rotation players have to contribute the following:

    shoot the trey drive it guard 6-3 and unders guard 6-4 and overs. rebound 4-5 per game make the entry pass protect

    To make the High Low work best you need three trey ball threats on the floor at all times.

    To guard all the possible match-ups you need three 6-3 and unders and 3 6-5 and overs.

    That is six players.

    You only play these six a lot until January 15, or February. after that the bench shortens and they only play situationally when you need three 6-3 and under, or three 6-4 and over, or various combinations in between.

    We have two of the three 6-3 and unders needed: Frank and Devonte.

    We have three of the three 6-5 and overs needed: Selden, Brannen, Svi,

    Thus we are shy a 6-3 and under.

    And we are shy (so far) of a 3 that can do all the things that a 3 should do: shoot the trey at 40%, drive it,entry pass it, and protect against either a 6-3 and under, or against a 6-4 and over.

    Neither problem on its own is insurmountable, but together they compound.

    Guys like Rush, Henry and Oubre are crucial to being able to get away with shortcomings at the 1 and 2, and they are crucial to dealing with defensive and trey ball needs.

    6-4 Travis Releford, as much as I loved him and respected his game, was always a potential weakness when a Rush, Henry, Kidd-Gilchrist or Oubre (RHKO) type showed up. A 1 and a 2 can get away with up and under against longer types, when they’ve got the safety blanket of the RKHO type that can help and even switch off in a pinch, or sometimes for a half. Travis could not do that and he was in my estimation the best 6-4 3 KU has ever had.

    So why do we need a 6-3 and under guy that can play, when our problem is a lack of an RKHO type 3?

    Because…since we didn’t sign a great 3 to replace Oubre, we will have to committee the three with Selden some, plus Greene and Svi. And the committee may even have to use to Perry there some also. But the bulk of it is going to have to get done by Greene and Svi.

    And Greene and Svi are more shooting guards in their development so far.

    And neither so far has a full tool box.

    And when the wear and tear, reported injury. and the unreported operable injury feed in, without the six man, we are going to be in worse shape than last season, because we aren’t going to have an Oubre grade threat.

    This is why I so wanted either Ingram, or Brown, to sign with KU, at the 3,or to get Malik to sign at the 2.

    If Self picks up that 2 that can play some now, then he can afford to commit Selden, Svi and Green to committee the three and hope one separates into something solid, or even special.

    And he can ride out the injuries, wherever they hit on the perimeter.



  • @jaybate-1.0 I said last year Perry would never play the 3, I would not be surprised to see him there this year. If BG doesn’t get back to 100%, Svi and Selden don’t improve, if we don’t sign a quality 3, I can see Perry there. If we can play Bragg and diallo together or another combo of bigs, never say never. I wanted Ingram too.



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    I have been preaching for while now that Perry needs to be playing some 3 since that is the position he will play in the NBA…and his is his last year. You are absolutely correct that if Diallo and Bragg click together, I can see Perry playing the 3 since he is too valuable not to have in the game. Not having to guard much bigger players, he can be absolutely deadly again other similar size 3s.



  • Just go Rewatch this if you feel a lack of confidence in Svi. His 3 point shooting is going to get better for sure next year. He will go to the rim more. He might even lead the team in assists next year with the vision he has. Guy is going to be a stud. Just imagine being 17 and dealing with all he was dealing with last year. No way he had a shot at being good. Last season will not be indicative of how good he can be. He was dealing with a new country, new basketball rules, new teammates, new coaches, new everything.

    I mean here is a great example of what Svi was going through at the beginning of last season: One of my friends is a manager on the team and Svi came into the managers office to ask for something early in the season.

    He starts pointing down and saying that he wants a “spanking.”

    “You want a spanking Svi?”

    “Yes a spanking.”

    “I don’t think you want a spanking Svi…”

    “Yes a spanking.” And he goes and points to a pair of slide on sandals.

    “Ohhh. Gotcha. Some FLIP FLOPS.”

    Hopefully Svi will put a spanking on everyone this next season.



  • @Kcmatt7 Thanks for defending Svi. He seems a talent who will blossom in time. I gave him my highest praise, when first seeing him play by saying he had Larry Bird level talent. Bird got overwhelmed by Knight at Indiana and went home. Svi stuck it out. Svi could be a fine player if he were a fine shooter. Because he does a lot of good things with the ball and will eventually learn to guard. But he will need this year to get there. I see him being a draft choice in two season, assuming he proves he can shoot 40% from trey. Oubré was a draft choice last season–a cornerstone guy. Svi has to get good before great.



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Diallo and Bragg starting and moving Perry seems improbable for 6-8 freshman bigs. Remember Perry as a freshman big at 6-8?

    But it’s not impossible! 🙏



  • @jaybate-1.0 But highly improbable. Coach Self favors experience above talent.



  • @jaybate-1.0 I know OU has most of its guys returning, not sure what it added. Iowa St is the same but dont they have another near footer coming in from juco transfer? WVU, not sure. Texas, not sure apart from Shaka coming in. How are they going to run “havoc” with heavy weight Ridley plodding up and down the court?
    Lets see, who else can challenge KU?
    KState? ROFL! They just lost 80% of their roster and have signed zero top 100 recruits and have to piece together a roster full of juco transfers! Door mat anyone? If anyone should be “excreting rectilinear masonry forms” it should be the Kstate coach and their fan base.

    Oh yah, one last thing about MSU and Ratso Izzo. He just lost out on one of the top big recruits, Caleb Swanigan. And, didn’t they lose some guys to the draft and to graduation? Im sure Ratso will be playing thug ball as per usual against KU but he’ll have to do it with 3/4ths of a good roster.



  • @HighEliteMajor That’s what Im sayin too HEM. Svi is gonna be a stud for us next season. Im betting the house on Svi. I just have a feeling he is going to sky rocket.



  • @Kcmatt7

    Good post on Svi.

    Wow… a guy that knows how to use a shot fake. What a rare treat, especially for us guys who appreciate smart ball over dumb ball just requiring shear athleticism to make plays.



  • @jaybate-1.0 You definitely might be right that he will need an extra year, but I personally believe he is about to explode. Per my source, he has been putting in a ton of work already and has been dominating at practice.

    I’ll even make a bold stat prediction for him.

    Ppg: 12 Reb: 3 Assists:4 Steals: 1



  • @Kcmatt7

    In my books, Svi already knows much of the tougher parts of the game to learn. Last year he needed some defensive polishing on how to fight through screens, etc. And then he needed more strength. Part of that is just for him to get a year older. If he pushes it all summer in the weight room, he should be a different player this coming year.

    The last step is for him to have the uber confidence it takes to be a guy who earns the basketball spotlight. He has to cross a hurdle most of the other players don’t have in front of them… he has to build uber confidence in another country… the country that created the game of basketball. The country that made all the film footage he has been watching his entire life, dreaming about being a real ball player.

    The same holds true for players like Cheick.

    I’m always amazed at these players when they do build the confidence to challenge (or surpass) American players at their own game.

    I hope Svi feels himself worthy to take over the game this year. He has to step up and fight for his minutes… knowing he is worthy to be one of the best, even if he is not American.



  • @Lulufulu

    OU returns 4 starters. They lose Thomas (anchor in the post) & Booker a 3pt chucker off the bench. They signed 2 combo/SF guards who should be good in time. They got a Juco Center who is one of the best Juco’s. He will probably start from Day 1. They also had a Top 100 big that sat out last year and red-shirted. I’ve talked to someone on their staff via twitter and they are very high on him.

    Iowa St. returns 4 starters as well. They have to replace Jones & Hogue and they signed 2 transfers( 1 eligible in Dec from Marquette) & 1 point guard. No bigs so far but they have been after all the graduate transfer bigs with no luck so far.

    West Virginia lost their best player Staten, but return 9 guys who played last year. They also signed one of the top 3 Juco scorers in the country, he also played a press system so he fits with Huggins new style. Also joining them is a top 50 SF. He has a chance to start as a freshman.

    I think Smart will scale back his Havoc style to some degree until he signs kids that are his. I wouldn’t be surprised if he does a soft press back into a zone. Gives you the chance to still play a gimmic defense while not exposing Ridley too much. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ridley lose considerable weight this off-season.



  • @jaybate-1.0

    If I were to start Perry, Diallo and Bragg, I would have Bragg at the 3. He seems to be much more comfortable facing the basket than Perry. He also seems to be a much more dynamic ballhandler. I’d rather see him at the 3 than Perry. Perry’s jumper is a set shot. Bragg’s is more of a pull up off the bounce.

    He also has the athleticism and lateral quickness to handle perimeter guys on the defensive end.

    @BeddieKU23

    I think Smart still plays Havoc, but modifies Ridley’s role. Ridley was in terrible shape his first year on campus, but has steadily improved in that department. Smart will have him in shape, which may make Ridley a much better player overall than he has been to this point.

    As for Svi, I don’t have a good feel for how much he will contribute. I was very high on him last year, but he was much more overmatched than I ever anticipated he would be. I am taking a wait and see approach with him. I worry that the pace and perimeter athleticism was too much for him.



  • @justanotherfan I was going to disagree with you about Bragg at the 3 until I watched this video. (Just skip to 4:40). I didn’t realize how well he can handle the ball well for his size. He definitely needs to work on his left hand a bit still both shooting and dribbling, but I’m still impressed.



  • @justanotherfan

    I think Svi will be much improved but I do worry how much that will translate. He’s still very young even for a Sophomore. His shooting will have to improve a ton and that could simply come with consistent playing time. He does offer the best passing/dribbling/defensive combo of him & Greene at the moment. How much of an advantage will it be for him being here all spring/summer than Greene who is hurt.

    You could be right about Ridley, I do wonder if Smart will struggle with implementing the havoc in year one. A lot of upperclassmen who have little experience with a full time press style. That is hard to put in place in one off-season.



  • @Kcmatt7

    Highlight videos are just that…highlight videos. After Thon Maker’s highlight video was released, he looked like the second coming of Olajuwon and Jabbar combined…how did it work out for him? After the Nike Hops Summit nobody is talking about him. Svi’s highlight video shows the best plays over a number of games but it does not show all the shots he missed; like I said, a good way to see potential and athleticism but not a good way to evaluate a player in his entirety.

    If you want evaluate a players, look at his overall stats and not the highlight reel. I have followed Svi in International competition and there is no question that he has incredible talent; however, I am not sold on the 3 gun. if you look at his 3-point shooting numbers you we will see that much like KU last season, he is consistently inconsistent. he might shoot 0.400 or better one game and 0.200 or worse the next. One thing he might have going for him is that in Internationale competition the 3 point line is farther away than in college. Until I see him shoot consistently from the 3, I will not count him as an outside shooter but more as a mid-range shooter and also a tall player than can penetrate.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I look at highlight videos understanding that it is the optimal performance. That’s the point - what is a guy’s ceiling. If he isn’t doing it in his highlight video, its because he flat out cannot do it.

    Look at Bragg in that video. About the only thing he struggles with is the two ball speed dribble with the left hand. Everything else he looks great. He runs well, moves well laterally. Great hands. Explosive leaper. Clean shot and release. Catch and dunk skills. Second and third jump ability. Upper and lower body strength. Can take contact.

    Find a box that he doesn’t check in that video. I don’t really see one. Can he improve? Of course. But he checks basically every box you could want. Oh, and he’s 6-9, too. I think that video shows why he can play the 3, 4 or 5 in college. The athleticism to play on the perimeter, the strength to play inside. He’s a walking MUA.

    @BeddieKU23

    I think there is a good chance Svi is ahead of Greene next year because I don’t think Greene will be ready. That is my major concern for next year’s team - Svi not being far enough along, but Greene not being 100%. We desperately need another wing player if Greene isn’t healthy because Selden alone is not enough on the perimeter.



  • @justanotherfan

    We will get another guard. With 2 of them visiting this week, its hard to imagine these kids don’t see a golden opportunity for summer playing time that could possibly put them in a position for a rotation spot come fall.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Oh I totally understand what highlight videos are. I just was attempting to get people excited about the kid. I realize that he only shot about 30% from 3 on average in his international play. But you have to look at some of their scores. His team was pretty bad, so he is shooting some desperation shots just to try and keep his team in the game.


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