The portal.
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Tweet just said ‘KU fans like to complain about NIL hurting the program, but KU has more NIL to spend than anyone else. This is a program problem.’ What do you think.
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Read from TOS Rak ease was interviewed , and said he could return back to KU
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@wissox said in The portal.:
Tweet just said ‘KU fans like to complain about NIL hurting the program, but KU has more NIL to spend than anyone else. This is a program problem.’ What do you think.
I partially agree with this statement. NIL is hurting the program because Self can’t build a program his preferred way of letting players develop. Too many freshmen don’t have the patience to wait their turn anymore as we’ve seen.
John Calipari said after Arkansas lost to Tech I think, or at least sometime during the tournament, that NIL has largely killed high school recruiting. Most top programs value experience over everything and since they’re in win now mode every year instead of being allowed “rebuid” years, programs aren’t recruiting HS kids the same way anymore.
A couple of schools are still largely building, retaining, and developing their own players rather than building through the portal and those Purdue and Marquette. It can be done, but KU isn’t a place where fans are patient enough for that anymore. If this fanbase was collectively patient enough for that, Self probably could make that still happen.
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@RockkChalkk done! added a couple categories, including KU Baseball.
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Clearly the transfer portal and the NIL are not working. It sucks and has ruined college sports. I honestly have no issue with either the idea of the NIL or the portal but in tandem there have to be contracts and commitments and all the stuff that goes along with every other (professional) sports leagues. That goes for both the schools/businesses and the students/employees.
Want to commit to a school as a frosh? 1 year commitment like the old signing days. (I’d prefer 2, but at least this keeps rosters in check)
Transfer as a soph/junior … 2-year contract to whichever school. They have to keep you and pay you. No one year hopping around BS. Leave early and you sit a year.
Transfer as a senior. Sky is the limit.
That would at least settle stuff down for building teams 1-2 years. For the fans, you know.
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Contracts are coming very soon (in some cases already signed in football). Revshare will change the game
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@Texas-Hawk-10 And right on cue Colvin leaves Purdue, young 4 star guard who was decent this past year.
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@BShark Self may have made the official “hey guys it’s cancelled” decision but that’s because half the team has checked out of classes and is done. No one was sticking around for that….there were only 3-4 guys on the roster (that played) that respected Self and likewise Self to them (he didn’t respect many from the jump)
I’m curious what people have seen in these last 24 months that make you want to have Self around next year
The only reason I’d keep him is for DP but if it got out DP would come if Oats or Golden accepted the job then Self can exit stage left for the betterment of the program which per his words no coach is bigger than. He did well during his time here but it’s time to step aside
When you don’t play the best players, never attempt 4 guards in a legitimate game except once and then it works but you create some ridiculous reason how we were “so bad defensively” - what a freaking crock so he can keep playing “his guys”. If Self is some defensive genius he should have figured out a way to teach the 4 guard lineup to defend
He’s always done this but as others have said the players having equal leverage with the coaches has exposed it
Storr and Griffin came here after being at big P5 schools NOT THE MID MAJOR EXCUSE — and they digressed horribly
It not the players it’s the coach, his system and how he treated the guys
Issue is he always latches onto a lower level guy who he favors over the higher ceiling guys. Morningstar, Reed, traylor, kj, d2….
That’s why I know he can’t fix this, won’t change his ways and we are wasting years “letting Self go out on his own terms”. I mean fine if you want to watch the house burn down standing inside so be it
Indiana and UCLA here we come! Heck we are letting guys come here for a year and then play in their prime for IU and a coach who without his best player and another injured best Self’s “boys” in AFH
Looking forward to playing a round with Self when he’s retired, looking him squarely in the eyes and asking WTH were you seeing/thinking because it clearly didn’t work!
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The banquet is probably not going to exist going forward. A thing of the past given the new landscape of college basketball.
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@BShark Win a title and I’d bet that isn’t the case!
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@wissox You have to spend your NIL wisely. Having a lot doesn’t matter if you blow it all on Dickinson and Storr
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@RockkChalkk there is a baseball session. – Are you talking pro or KU?–KU college baseball is unde and older thread Ku is 8-0.-- now they are 23-6 , I post on there quite a bi trying to keep fans updated about the guys. Their really good
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@kuballin10 Seems like Reed and morningstar did just fine when they played here hmmmm
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@drgnslayr interesting take:
“2. Resolve coaching situation - I’m not calling for Bill to resign, but we need to acknowledge that something isn’t working properly. This became obvious this year. We were probably the most-experienced team in D1 but we played like a high school team. It was more than having a bad match of players. These guys didn’t improve at all this entire season and may have even gone backwards. An easy cop out is to blame the character of the players. Then explain why the transfers mostly had huge drop offs in their stats. This stupid idea that they just got spoiled on NIL shows an ignorance in knowing the psyche of players. None of these guys got to this level without wanting to win and having good personal pride. I’m convinced if we don’t have a change from this year’s approach, we are headed for the same thing next year, regardless of the talent we bring in. To win, our guys need to overachieve.”
I was a bit rude, and I got flak for saying our team resembled a high school squad, but I’m relieved to know I’m not alone in thinking that. It’s tough to pick up and adjust to new strategies when the coach refuses to budge. Looking back at 2022, some could say BS was the Hall of Fame standout. But let’s not overlook that Remy was the key factor in our victory. He’s not tied to the establishment. He brought a unique mindset that clicked perfectly. He did things on his own terms.
However, CB’s growth might suggest the coaching staff’s efforts paid off, but I’m skeptical it’s that straightforward or certain.
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So more guys exiting the program. Makes me feel more like Flory isn’t coming back. He’s the guy I wanted back… even though his offense is limited to 5 feet from the basket.
Is this true that DP isn’t worried? Glad he isn’t because I’m not feeling comfortable with all new guys after the past couple years.
I’m sorry for being so damn skeptical!
Now I’m seeing a coming year with all new guys in a system we all agree players need years to learn. We will have all the cameras in town surrounding DP so what can we expect on the court?
I’m hoping Bill is busy now; waking each morning with a health smoothie and stepping 5000 steps! He’s reading all the player reviews and building his third title team! He’s interviewing a new assistant coach, an expert in development, along with reading resumes for the new GM position! There will be a big announcement coming out of the AD’s office as soon as next week!
While we are busy panicking over all the player losses… think about this… no players will have seniority and favoritism next year!
Someone tell me… are the NIL caps starting now? Maybe we will need a little extra help from Adidas! (Sorry, bad joke!)
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Flory’s situation isn’t all that surprising. He just watched his close teammate KJ rupture his Achilles potentially ruining his professional career whether that be the g-league or overseas. Elmarko in the same situation to a lesser extent. So you’re not guaranteed health in this game. So him and his handlers see KJ go down and think to themselves, yes we want all the advantages playing at KU provides, but we want higher pay that’s closer to what DP is getting since they were similarly ranked coming out of high-school. He paid his dues sitting behind Hunter and KJ, when he would have been playing 30+ minutes a game practically anywhere else. Pay the dude and move on. Role and bench players don’t have the leverage at a school like Kansas. So they will either enjoy the perks of being a Jayhawk or leave to play at a lesser program. Bill Self and KU have the bag etc to bring in a bevy of comparable talent to fill those spots. I think Flory returns knowing it will be his and DP’s team. Self will secure those complimentary players necessary to maximize the core groups talents. The sky is not falling.
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@madmax The sky is definitely not falling for me. I officially am give-a-crap-less after this season. Let the little mini-pro’s do their commercials and take stacks of cash to the bank every day. I don’t care anymore. I will probably still watch sports - mostly teams that aren’t KU, because I have/had no emotional investment in them. Whatever happens to this coach, this “team” - not my concern.
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I watch the NFL and enjoy it. Their pay doesn’t affect me in the least bit. Same goes for any hard working college kid that wants to get paid, they should be able to make a very good wage. Does an 18 year old out earning the average fan put them off?
The money isn’t the issue, roster construction is. There needs to be some form of stability for this to work. Pros work under contract. Be it a one year contract or multiple years, you know what you’re getting. This allows the GM/coach to construct a roster with some form of future vision/growth in mind.
The current ncaa/calipari model isn’t for coaches who develop players. Coaches like Self do better with continuity, unfortunately this last year the continuity was Hunter, Dejuan, and KJ - more glue guys than take charge leaders. And zero continuity for next season.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I don’t have very high expectations currently, which is a different place to be in than the last couple decades.
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It will be hilarious? Sad? Tragic? when KU lands all the portal riches we can imagine and gets ranked pre season number 1 again. I have to agree my expectations are extremely low for next year. And I’m not sure there are portal guys that will change those expectations.
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I still won’t understand if we can’t retain Bidunga. Surely we can offer him a competitive salary and starter minutes at a flagship program. Regardless of etiquette regarding portal, won’t the ends justify the means? Flory is the key to continuity.
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The canceled banquet is the strongest signal that there’s trouble in River City.
Expectations are fragile, but powerful. Expectations for the fans, the team and the staff were very hight at the beginning of the season. The preseason ranking, the portal recruiting and NIL money all fed this.
Speaking for myself, the expectations have been shattered and that has left me with a sense of loss.
But, high expectations are not necessarily the problem: Teams need high expectations to a degree. Players have to believe that they can win. But it can be a double-edged sword.
The high expectation carried the team through the preseason. But that first roadtrip to Creighton and Missouri shook the confidence and the doubts and criticism started to set in. As the B12 season started with a loss, the extremely high expectations became a detriment.
Home losses. Slipping out of the top 10, then 20 then 25. The disappointment snowballed. It was palpable with the fans and observable with the team.
I think a big part of recovery within the program relies on resetting expectations properly and then and managing those expectations carefully. (Fans’ expectations are impossible to manage… The program needs to put on ear muffs to most of the outside world and work through this.)
On this board, there’s been a lot of discussion about accountability (playing the best guys and not having favorites, etc.), which is sort of the other side of the coin to expectations. I personally believe (complete outsider view) that accountability is not as much of the problem given that there has been such a track record of success and success is predicated on accountability.
However, the glue that ties accountability and expectations together is communication. Here is where I think things may have gone sideways. Self has been pretty loyal to seniors and I think has pride in the program’s tradition and ability to bring guys along to the senior night, etc. If the incoming portal guys were not given accurate guidance on their role, or even if they were, and they feel their expectations were violated, they are going to get disenchanted.
That disenchantment from unrealized expectations is corrosive, and I think that’s where things stand.
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@approxinfinity I do think there is some what of a question of do we WANT continuity from this past season? That team was such a mess, is it better to just start completely fresh?
To be clear I also love Flory and wish he was going to be a jayhawk next year, but once you put yourself in the portal… loyalty, trust, and continuity are no longer traits you can lean on. There is also the idea of precedent to consider. Like does every player then just put themselves in the portal every year hoping to get a raise from their current school? Does KU want to set that as standard operating procedure?
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Anyone heard an update on what is going on with Storr? For somebody that everyone was certain that he was going to enter it is just weird that he is the last one to announce.
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Has anyone answered the Q about whether Flory, as an international recruit, is able to get NIL? Grady wasn’t, but he didn’t go to HS in the US. Flory did, I think, so is that the difference? I thought it was a student visa restriction…don’t want to jeopardize a visa right now!
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@MR11 said in The portal.:
Anyone heard an update on what is going on with Storr? For somebody that everyone was certain that he was going to enter it is just weird that he is the last one to announce.
He will enter
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@approxinfinity said in The portal.:
I still won’t understand if we can’t retain Bidunga. Surely we can offer him a competitive salary and starter minutes at a flagship program. Regardless of etiquette regarding portal, won’t the ends justify the means? Flory is the key to continuity.
The main thing is maybe they don’t see Flory as a guy worth two million dollars. Maybe some more time spent talking to other players and agents will change that.
Also it’s not all about the money on this one. The locker room and culture was beyond rancid this last season.
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@BShark cant imagine Flory being hard to work with, with a different cast around him, from what I have seen of him at pressers.
also cant imagine them thinking he isnt worth the cabbage if other programs think he is. And there just is no way we get someone with Flory’s ceiling at the 5 for next year in the portal.@benshawks08 to me losing your top productive returner because you aren’t willing to pony up is potentially a more dangerous precedent than being strong armed. Certainly since Flory and handlers have legit reasons to be irritated with usage last year. Bill won’t be here forever. Easy to reset expectations re: strong-arming with new coach later.
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@approxinfinity I tend to agree about Flory. The only thing I can think is that these days what makes a guy easy or hard to work with goes beyond the guy and extends to his agent and ‘team’.
So some of the issues we see may be about the individual and some may be about others around the player. For us outsiders, there’s rarely visibility to know which is which for sure.
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Flory’s “handler” has been posting on the phog. About all you need to know about that guy.
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I would like to be a fly on the wall, of Bill Self’s brain right now.
Bill has been treated nothing short of a God since he arrived in Lawrence.
I know he’s getting some blow back for the first time.
We’ve had the typical blue-blood expectation failures in the past… basically… every year we don’t win a NC. But we’ve never had so many “fans” calling for his head within the Jayhawk nation.
I’ve never called for Bill to receive the ax. But I have questioned if it is smart for Bill to stick this out. Is his current situation building on his legacy? I would say “no” but that could change and send him skyrocketing over Jayhawk Mountain if he would win another title.
I believe… he is the only one on the planet that knows if he has another title in him.
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@drgnslayr said in The portal.:
But I have questioned if it is smart for Bill to stick this out.
He could have gone the Jay Wright route. Heck, he could have retired after the 2022 title and basically never had a blemish.
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I could be wrong… but I heard from someone at Duke that their GM manages players’ handlers. Not sure what that means. Is the GM attempting to be their handlers? Seems a conflict of interest and I don’t think that is possible because these people have been around players while they come up and many stick with them all through their basketball careers after college. Maybe the GM is the voice of the university dealing with the handlers.
This Flory situation is the perfect situation where we see the weakness of our athletic program’s relationships with handlers. It is possible we lose Flory over monster communication errors or lack of communication. I’m seeing Flory is receiving nasty remarks from fans and it just perpetuates his departure. As someone else said on here, I wonder if the KJ injury impacted Flory. It should. He risks a huge chunk of his future everytime he steps on the floor for KU. At least fans seem to now be educated enough to stop the nonsense of claiming an education is fair trade.
Imagine if we had a GM who stays in constant contact with all the players’ handlers. I’m pretty sure, just giving handlers acknowledgment would be a huge step in recruiting the handlers as Jayhawks! I am certain we would be in a better place today with a GM!
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@drgnslayr said in The portal.:
I could be wrong… but I heard from someone at Duke that their GM manages players’ handlers. Not sure what that means. Is the GM attempting to be their handlers? Seems a conflict of interest and I don’t think that is possible because these people have been around players while they come up and many stick with them all through their basketball careers after college. Maybe the GM is the voice of the university dealing with the handlers.
This Flory situation is the perfect situation where we see the weakness of our athletic program’s relationships with handlers. It is possible we lose Flory over monster communication errors or lack of communication. I’m seeing Flory is receiving nasty remarks from fans and it just perpetuates his departure. As someone else said on here, I wonder if the KJ injury impacted Flory. It should. He risks a huge chunk of his future everytime he steps on the floor for KU. At least fans seem to now be educated enough to stop the nonsense of claiming an education is fair trade.
Imagine if we had a GM who stays in constant contact with all the players’ handlers. I’m pretty sure, just giving handlers acknowledgment would be a huge step in recruiting the handlers as Jayhawks! I am certain we would be in a better place today with a GM!
That’s what a GM in college does. They manage the NIL side of the program. Part of that includes communication with parents/handlers in regards to NIL stuff. The head coach still has final say on everything, but a GM deals with all the NIL stuff related to a program.
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Am I wrong… or might we be sitting better today with Flory had we had a GM?
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@drgnslayr said in The portal.:
Am I wrong… or might we be sitting better today with Flory had we had a GM?
Depends on what the actual root of the issue with Flory is.
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Need contracts in the ncaa. Until then it’s just a yearly bidding war for each player that you lured in with money. Traditional recruiting has been corrupted.
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@dylans said in The portal.:
Need contracts in the ncaa. Until then it’s just a yearly bidding war for each player that you lured in with money. Traditional recruiting has been corrupted.
Apparently going to happen soon-ish
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@dylans I watch the NFL also (mostly the Chiefs) and it doesn’t bother me. Why? Because they mostly have gone to college, got a job and are getting paid because they were deemed worthy to play in the NFL. College is different (in my mind) - they haven’t paid their dues. They’re just money hungry little punks, most of whom will never set foot in a professional sports arena.
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From TOS, the question was raised. With the players that have entered the portal , why are they ignoring KU ? - Poster answered – - Portal is a week old , and could be because of the uncertainty of the Coach.-- Do we think this is valid point ?
Does Coach Self need to come out and flat out make it perfectly clear about his future for the upcoming Season ?
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Henry Veesaar from Arizona in the portal- --Any Interest ?-- —K J Lewis from Arizona in the Portal from Arizona- - —Any interest ? – I think I would have to reach out for KJ if it were up to me .- Interest anybody ?
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Just heard this, ha ANYONE else heard whispers, rumblings of this at all ?- —A J Storr is coming back nnd that his girlfriend played a huge role in this decision.–Anybody else seen anything about this anywhere ?
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Sounds like some major fundraising was done recently. Self and Goff took a fundraising trip down to Texas together. Had to improve the NIL situation with recent changes to the transfer market.
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@SlimShaddy54 Vesaar abused Dickinson fwiw
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@Jhawk69 did he sr night?
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Sr night, Hunter had 33 pts, az big had 5, 14 mins, 4 fouls
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Big 12 tournament
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I know. Just saying.
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AJ did improve, I would’ve started him over Rylan 2nd half of the Arky game. Rylan was a zero across the board, I think. AJ was aggressive!
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@Jhawk69 yes he did would be nice.- -think I would like to take a shot at K J Lewis too–very quality athlete
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@nuleafjhawk said in The portal.:
@dylans I watch the NFL also (mostly the Chiefs) and it doesn’t bother me. Why? Because they mostly have gone to college, got a job and are getting paid because they were deemed worthy to play in the NFL. College is different (in my mind) - they haven’t paid their dues. They’re just money hungry little punks, most of whom will never set foot in a professional sports arena.
I wonder why someone else earning money bothers some? As you say, “most will never be able to set foot in a professional sports arena” and get paid. Meanwhile the program is making millions off of their backs. I don’t mind them maximizing what they get paid in what is a very short earning window in their life. I just would like some stability too. Both can be achieved with better structure.
Paying dues… I get the premise, but longer tenure doesn’t mean better at your job. Sometimes quite the opposite. Most geniuses have made their impact by 27 - this is the same, but physical genius instead of intellectual.
