@benshawks08 100% agree and see what you are saying but doesn’t mean that them leaving can still be a positive for KU. Those are 2 programs that we would have a hard time beating out for B12 champions, so we now have a much better change of winning the B12 and making college playoffs which would have been otherwise unlikely.

I think people are getting a little too caught up in valuing how much money your program is making vs how much you are winning. I know more money means better player but I firmly believe the fan experience is better with a slightly worse quality team that competes for B12 titles than a better overall team playing to be middle of the pack/bottom feeders in the SEC.

Now if in 5-10 years down the line and KU is king of the B12 and then getting walloped in the playoffs every time we make it there (gonzaga type situation in basketball) I may change my mind, but this team has a long way to go before getting there and I doubt anyone is seriously complaining if that is were the program is at.

I don’t see anything in that article that should have you this down on next year. If you are talking about on paper, Barttorvik preseason rankings has Arizona slightly higher than KU and TT significantly lower. I do agree Houston is likely to be better, but they still have to replace some major contributors in Cryer and Roberts. These are also all preseason rankings and don’t mean that much at the end of the day. It is wild to already be punting on the season before even seeing this team play a game together. IDK if you are just down on the NIL era in general or trying to neg the season so you don’t get hurt again, but you can let yourself hope a little man.

I will never really fault coach for not giving a player a guarantee they will start. Sell in a role for them, yes. Say we have a spot that is theirs for the taking, sure. But if a someone thinks that they don’t need to perform day in and out to get minutes, than they are going to cause problems for the program eventually.

To go one further, KU was also the better team in the OSU game. This team was a few plays away from being 11-1 and sitting one game away from playoff football. That hurts a bit but also goes to show this is one of the greatest program turnarounds in football history.

You raise a good point with UT/OU leaving there is going to be a power vacuum in football. If Lance hangs around long enough, we have as good of a chance as any to fill that void.

@rockchalkjayhawk Griffen was already a better defender last year than Furph under an offensive minded coach, so would be a surprise if he ends up worse.

McCullar is a big loss on defense no doubt and that probably makes us worse, but I feel like the defense we all remember from last year was when he was injured. Slotting timbies in for the SG comparison and I find it hard to believe Storr will be a downgrade. Add that to hopefully the rest of the bench giving better defensive contributions and I think a top 10 defensive even isn’t a pipe dream.

I’ll back up my optimistic thinking by sharing that barttorvik 2025 prediction has us as the #4 defense (not that I put too much stock into that).

https://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php?sort=AdjDE&conlimit=

An update to @Texas-Hawk-10 old post on the history of the matchup:

Kansas and Duke have played 14 times all time. Duke leads the all time series with Kansas 8-6 with 12 of the 14 games being played on a neutral and each time only visiting the other once apiece. Kansas and Duke are tied 3-3 against each other in the NCAA Tournament and Kansas leads Duke 3-1 in the Champions Classic. Self is 4-2 vs Duke while at Kansas.

Dec. 1, 1985- Preseason NIT in New York: (3)Duke 92, (5)Kansas 86 (1-0 Duke)

Mar. 29, 1986- Final Four in Dallas: (1) Duke 71, (2) Kansas 67 (2-0 Duke)

Feb. 20, 1988- Allen Fieldhouse: (6) Duke 74, Kansas 70 OT (3-0 Duke)

Apr. 2, 1988- Final Four in Kansas City: Kansas 66, (5) Duke 59 (3-1 Duke)

Feb. 18, 1989- Cameron Indoor: (11) Duke 102, Kansas 77 (4-1 Duke)

Apr. 1, 1991- National Championship in Indianapolis: (6) Duke 72, (12) Kansas 65 (5-1 Duke)

Mar. 19, 2000- NCAA Tournament 2nd Round in Winston-Salem: (1) Duke 69, Kansas 64 (6-1 Duke)

Mar. 27, 2003- NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 in Anaheim: (6) Kansas 69, (7)Duke 65 (6-2 Duke)

Nov. 23, 2011- Maui Invitational Finals: (6)Duke 68, (14) Kansas 61 (7-2 Duke)

Nov. 12, 2013- Champions Classic in Chicago: (5)Kansas 94, (4)Duke 83 (7-3 Duke)

Nov. 15, 2016- Champions Classic in New York: (7)Kansas 77, (1) Duke 75 (7-4 Duke)

Mar. 25, 2018- NCAA Tournament Elite 8 in Omaha: (4)Kansas 85, (9)Duke 81 OT (7-5 Duke)

Nov. 6, 2019- Champions Classic in New York: (4)Duke 68, (3) Kansas 66 (8-5 Duke)

Nov. 15, 2022- Champions Classic in Indianapolis: (6) Kansas 69, (7) Duke 64 (8-6 Duke)

Based on predictive sites, the line for the game should be around Duke -2/-3. Will be KU’s first game of the season where they aren’t favored, so excited to see how the team reacts.

@BShark too many regular season NBA games to be a good product is the main problem. Players take off games since playoff seeding can be a crap shoot, so really just playing for home court advantage which isn’t as important as players being healthy.

I generally agree with your sentiment but we have to check our biases with this. A neutral observer could watch a random NBA game vs a random college basketball game and I bet most would say the NBA game is more entertaining. College ball just has better intangibles and better tourney format which puts it over the top for me, but we are also usually watching a top 10 team play. I don’t know that I would say the same thing if I grew up in Boston a Celtics fan who went to a non basketball power college.

Kind of a leap to get that from what I said, we already dropped a home game and Houston doesn’t have to play at ISU, so winning the regular season B12 is not likely no. But I also don’t think it would be a massive upset if they did (~10% chance based on betting odds does seem about right).

I didn’t even say they will for sure be good enough to compete for a F4, just that is won’t take miracle for this team to improve to that level. They have shown they can hit that level of play in spurts, but do need some improvements in execution/consistency.

Honestly the main thing I worry about with this team is facing a team that can exploit Hunter on defense, because that is always going to be there.

@dylans man Greene definitely on my top 5 what could have been KU players list. Had the stroke and height to be one of the greatest spot up 3pt shooters of all time but couldn’t do anything else even to an average level to stay on the court.

Feel like with a Jaun/Shak/KJ/FB/HD lineup no one scores on either end

Yeah definitely reasonable to not want to associate with that at all.

I just don’t personally don’t have any issues with the hire based on the charges. He at least served some sort of punishment for it vs the majority of other assistants doing the same thing that never got caught.

Hefty role? Lol he wasn’t even caught paying players with the money. I have no problem with people being against the hire, but lets not get carried away here.

He was caught up in the FBI investigation, but had a very light sentence. Didn’t get caught paying players but was caught taking some ~$4000 I think from the FBI sting that was trying to catch coaches paying players. Most asst coaches at the time were probably doing the same thing so idk if it worth clutching the pearls over.

Seems to have come out of that with a decent reputation though which makes it seem like a decent hire? That reasoning isn’t based on much though.

Ostertag as the block leader probably needs an asterisk since Wilt would be leading if blocks were a recorded stat back then

What kind of odds are you offering? I’m not big on betting but I wouldn’t be able to pass up if you are giving out 100/1 championship odds if you really think KU has no chance for a title. I’m seeing most KU Vegas odds sitting at 20/1. Florida and Uconn from 2022-2023 season both won it going in to the season at 60/1 odds, 20/1 hardly seems hopeless.

Really, I’m just not seeing your reasons to completely give up on the season. Have you been at summer workouts and the team is a mess or something? Have you scouted the incoming transfers and see something that makes you think they are going to flop? I wouldn’t even push back much if you were just saying you don’t have high expectations for the team, that’s reasonable. But seems like you are saying there is no hope for next year based on vibes and ppg numbers.

I don’t see anything in that article that should have you this down on next year. If you are talking about on paper, Barttorvik preseason rankings has Arizona slightly higher than KU and TT significantly lower. I do agree Houston is likely to be better, but they still have to replace some major contributors in Cryer and Roberts. These are also all preseason rankings and don’t mean that much at the end of the day. It is wild to already be punting on the season before even seeing this team play a game together. IDK if you are just down on the NIL era in general or trying to neg the season so you don’t get hurt again, but you can let yourself hope a little man.

Next season is going to be as good as DP and Flory let it be. The supporting cast around them doesn’t jump off the page but appears to fit around those two pretty well. We went for the big transfer names in the past few years and those haven’t worked out for us, so it is encouraging to me that we went after fit over talent this year. Yes a bit more shooting around DP/Flory would be nice, but that should at least be improved from the last couple of years.

So far, I haven’t seen anything on DP/Flory coming out to make me believe they aren’t up to the task. Granted I have been a bit checked out of KU news lately so could always be some concerning rumbling I am just missing.

@rockchalkjayhawk I think those concerns are valid, but for 3 point shooting we know we are already getting an upgrade on 3 pt shooters at the 1 and 4 so at least can’t be as bad as last season right?

With how this team is build, it seems like the key won’t be to lead the nation in 3pt%. Just shoot enough at a respectable % so that defenders can’t pack the paint and block driving/cutting lanes.

@dylans “If you’re going into a field so specialized there are only a few openings, you know where they are located, it’s no surprise.” 100% agreed and this very statement is what I am getting at, the NBA is such a field.

I would place a lot of money on betting you can find more military people that are stationed where they don’t want to be compared to NBA players in the world. The players also don’t even have to live in that city for probably 30-50% of the year between road games and offseason, unlike most other jobs. They could also be deployed at any time and you are going to a much shittier place than Utah and can’t take your family with you. Just saying being in this situation isn’t as unique as it appears.

I can empathize that yes it would suck to be drafted to a team you don’t want to be on or to get traded, but NBA players are paid a premium to give up that flexibility and have union representation to support them. Players could also individually negotiate a no trade clause in their contracts, but no one does that because they don’t value it over leaving money on the table. Everyone in the NBA benefits from the draft system as league parity makes the whole league more profitable. I just don’t think any of us need to feel sorry for NBA players and imagine most of the players would even agree that getting rid of the draft is bad for both the league and players.

@dylans TBH no different than anyone going in to the military and even specialized job fields. You often have only one option for the job you are trained on and sometimes have to move to a location that isn’t ideal for it.

The NBA at least has a union and every team is in at least a decent sized city