KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.
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Zeke Mayo Highlights vs. UCF (24 Pts, 9 Rebs, 5 Asts)
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This game showed me how valuable Juan is… on both sides of the ball. We lost the assist totals by 6. A stat we usually carry, largely because of Juan. And we didn’t do it because all our guys were driving the ball, though AJ wasn’t shy in his limited minutes.
One stat that just keeps getting bigger… Rylan, 26 minutes, 4 points. He should easily have 12+ points every game… easy. We run nothing for him and he’s our best threat from 3. We lose so much when he plays 26 minutes and only scores 4 because he is a defensive liability. He’s here and earning minutes because of his trey threat.
KJ… the guy I isolate watching… he did both good and bad. He brought some energy and it took a while but he proved valuable down the stretch. It’s just hard now to give up any Flory minutes to KJ. Flory only played 2 minutes more than KJ, but snagged 6 more rebs than KJ and had 5 blocks to none for KJ. But we do need an extra big for depth, and as long as KJ can add some energy, and some stats, the loss won’t be huge. But if Self starts giving KJ 35 minutes and benches Flory… not a positive!
I’m having a hard time assessing the value of Moore now. He almost seems like he is battling his old injury. His play is becoming timid, and he’s backing down too much on offense. I didn’t see great defense from him tonight. No wonder his minutes were backed off to 12, even with Juan out.
Coit is our guy… who will be an occasional spark plug off the bench. Tonight, he really rescued us on his trey shot.
I hope Juan is back for the weekend. We aren’t ready to face more challenges without him. Just too valuable.
I felt a lot more comfortable after the Houston loss than I do after this victory.
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Anybody know why Shak didn’t get any run in the second half? That was weird.
Speaking of weird, just about everything else in that game qualifies.
Playing time, rotations, passing ability, defense, coaching. Challenging times.
It was obviously rough without Dajuan. Let the debate return to how many minutes he plays, and not about him starting.
This is an awkward, uncoordinated team (it’s difficult to watch Rylan do anything but shoot). We need more guys who can actually dribble the ball without falling on their face.
Having only watched Storr while at KU…he seems better suited to be an open court player. Not a lot if that happening at KU this year. May actually be a better pro? Ha.
Got a chuckle out if the fastest hook ever when Self pulled Passmoore!
Jeez, we won but I still feel trodden upon.
Maybe we should play Duke every game.
But, we won without a starter and a half.
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I agree with almost everything @rockchalkjayhawk but KJ should no longer be a starter, so down 1 starter (harping because he rushed back from injury and that should not change the equation; Flory should start going forward). This may be arguing semantics. I would acknowledge down 1.5 heavy rotation players.
And, I think Rylan did more than shoot. Most def should not be a primary handler but otherwise he contributed in several areas, I thought and it stuck out to me during game when on ball. I will have to keep my eye on him a little more off ball, especially on the defensive end @drgnslayr . I havent been paying attention there
Who was responsible most for the open shooters when UCF got into their action?
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@approxinfinity said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
I agree with almost everything @rockchalkjayhawk but KJ should no longer be a starter, so down 1 starter (harping because he rushed back from injury and that should not change the equation; Flory should start going forward). This may be arguing semantics. I would acknowledge down 1.5 heavy rotation players.
And, I think Rylan did more than shoot. Most def should not be a primary handler but otherwise he contributed in several areas, I thought and it stuck out to me during game when on ball. I will have to keep my eye on him a little more off ball, especially on the defensive end @drgnslayr . I havent been paying attention there
Who was responsible most for the open shooters when UCF got into their action?
Self is responsible for making them double team Hall which created the open shots. Hunter wasn’t guarding their 7’2 guard outside. But half the time nobody was guarding their man. It’s difficult
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KJ looked half of himself but as the game wore on, he gave good effort and was a key part at times in securing the win. His FT shooting was clutch as it’s been a bright spot all year. We need him healthy there’s no doubt and happy and lucky he didn’t get injured again.
There has to be something going on behind the scenes with Moore. His usage is bizzarro land. I can imagine Self was not pleased with him for getting 2 quick fouls and basically never saw the floor after that. I wasn’t paying attention to his miscues but he did not step up for this team when they needed him. A 24 year old that didn’t take the chance and run with it. Very disappointing really.
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@drgnslayr KJ is valuable and the Houston game showed it. If his injury had kept him out again we lose last night.
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@rockchalkjayhawk You made a lot of good points. AJ is definitely an open court type and I thought with the personnel changes last night that he might get to do so. But his limited time he did a few nice things but still showing he’s trying too hard to make something happen.
Last night kind of felt like Self just told the guys just make sure you outscore them.
Mayo (where would we be without him) was frustrating. He was giving up jump shots and driving to try some off balance layup thing and they seemingly never went in. With all of the missed shots we had I’m not sure how we got to 91 except this may be Self’s best FT shooting team and they made a boatload.
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@BeddieKU23 i hope he gets more chances
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
Anybody know why Shak didn’t get any run in the second half? That was weird.
He messes up the offensive plays constantly. He was also bad last night in general. Bill be unwilling to go to him or AJ is probably why we saw that 3 big crap in hindsight.
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Im curious, if Self’s action is complicated why does he recruit guys who cant do it? Where is the disconnect? If we hire someone weak in IT we look at the interview process. Is it really not possible to determine if a kid will be able to run your stuff or not? Specifically a PG, seems like you would figure that out.
How complicated are the things they are being asked to do? What is a reasonable time frame for knowing the plays in Self’s system?
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It’s becoming more obvious as the season wears on that Bill is playing the guys he is because the others are so inconsistent. He has to play most of his bench each night to figure out who’s going to bother to show up that night to fill out the minutes.
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We missed Juan. Flory goes double double with 5 blocks. Hunt snaps out of it and makes three straight FG’s, hits free throws down the stretch and scores 24. Diggy comes up big in crunch time. Zeke keeps acting like a 24 point a night scorer. We need to keep up what we are doing and keep using the 9 deep tactic until we really find out what we have in each guy. Ten turnovers in half number one and UCF until KJ’s steal only had four all game and UCF made 14 threes. We had 10 threes ourselves and it is not so shocking when a sorely needed one goes down. Our vaunted defense was spotty and over came their FT shooting. I think Rylan and AJ are quality guys and we need them. Rylan has moved up to a solid C+ while AJ is somewhere else but keep playing him because we need him to take off. Not sure about Shak either and is he still hurt? Flory, Hunt, Zeke and Juan are the real core and a good enough one to win many more games. I’m still pissed about the Houston game what a complete waste. Like this game when we get 58 points from Flory, Zeke and Hunter is a must win for us no excuses.
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@approxinfinity Self’s defense against the pick and roll doesn’t work without a Flory. This team has grasped his stuff decently but we could value every possession better and our ball handling needs to get better. When we have a line up that works we are good and trending to very good I think. I am way too unforgiving and when I back off a bit it becomes more enjoyable. Watching Udoka and big Dave getting better was them getting better handles. Flory is way ahead of them as freshmen.
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@Zabudda With the 4 you mentioned as a core, I think Rylan has a good chance to shine as our 5th.
I do think Flory learns quickly and has the knack. Could be a really good pro.
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@BShark said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
Anybody know why Shak didn’t get any run in the second half? That was weird.
He messes up the offensive plays constantly. He was also bad last night in general. Bill be unwilling to go to him or AJ is probably why we saw that 3 big crap in hindsight.
Not sure which is more frustrating, watching shak and AJ blow up an offensive set by being in the wrong spot or diggy on d just wave exuberantly as he is either significantly out of position or in a ridiculous mismatch. Diggy was the main reason that dude went for 30. Everyone had to help him so much.
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@benshawks08 yeah that was what i thought i saw (Diggy getting torched) but wanted to hear it from someone else. Thanks
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Both diggy and Rylen have to score because they give up so much on the defensive end.
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Couple of things you may/may not know about the end of game from last night. Coach said he told the guys to foul on the final possession BEFORE the guy got to half court NOT after , and they didn’t do that. could of been costly. He said that’s why he doesn’t like to foul in those situations.
He also said about that last possession that the officials when they went to the table , they were only checking about the time NOT if the guy was in his shooting motion, saying that wasn’t something they could review even if they wanted to. - It was all about the time left.
He also said the officials said when UCF was trying to say he was in the act of shooting all the officials were saying Oh No , No , No . Things I myself didn’t know.
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@kjayhawks said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
Both diggy and Rylen have to score because they give up so much on the defensive end.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this.
Diggy is kind of a scoring afterthought. His trey shot isn’t as steady as Rylen. Rylen really has great form. His release is way up there, quick, and with good form. He tries to set up his footing correctly, too.
One of the biggest improvements we can make right now is to take advantage of this excellent scoring option! But we have to run plays for him. He can use off-ball screens and use motion to create the space he needs. He should be an offensive priority!
I’ll keep saying it… he should be a steady scorer of 12+ ppg, even if he only plays 20 minutes.
What a complete waste of talent.
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@benshawks08 said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@BShark said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
Anybody know why Shak didn’t get any run in the second half? That was weird.
He messes up the offensive plays constantly. He was also bad last night in general. Bill be unwilling to go to him or AJ is probably why we saw that 3 big crap in hindsight.
Not sure which is more frustrating, watching shak and AJ blow up an offensive set by being in the wrong spot or diggy on d just wave exuberantly as he is either significantly out of position or in a ridiculous mismatch. Diggy was the main reason that dude went for 30. Everyone had to help him so much.
poor Diggy. he’s got just the one job though. shoot. i don’t expect any more of him.
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@benshawks08 said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@BShark said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
Anybody know why Shak didn’t get any run in the second half? That was weird.
He messes up the offensive plays constantly. He was also bad last night in general. Bill be unwilling to go to him or AJ is probably why we saw that 3 big crap in hindsight.
Not sure which is more frustrating, watching shak and AJ blow up an offensive set by being in the wrong spot or diggy on d just wave exuberantly as he is either significantly out of position or in a ridiculous mismatch. Diggy was the main reason that dude went for 30. Everyone had to help him so much.
Yeah Diggy was out there guarding air. Kind of surprised Self went with him but I guess he felt we needed offense more.
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@kjayhawks thanks for this. Little ridonkulous innit?
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@approxinfinity Pictures can be deceptive. Watch the replay and when the screen shot kjayhawks shared occurred. In my view he’s gathering the ball to shoot, anticipating the foul, sure, but he’s already given up his dribble when that still shot was framed.
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@wissox that doesnt mean he was in a shooting motion. It means he picked up his dribble. You have to draw the line somewhere. If i get a defensive rebound, see you running and looking the other way and i step in front of you and when you crash into me, hurl the ball from my hip at my rim 90 feet away do you think theyd give me 3 shots? Lol.
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In the screenshot @kjayhawks posted he was shielding with his left hand as it was fouled by Griffen. Ball was only in his right. If we want to say waving one handed at the rim 50 feet away is a shot then you may as well get rid of fouls on the floor.
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@approxinfinity ya I hate to be a dick but no way no how he is shooting that in the frame shoot when the actual foul happened. With over 3 seconds why would you shot that from there?
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I think he threw his hands up after contact trying to draw a foul. It’s not uncommon. Doesn’t matter. He missed the front end of the free throws.
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@dylans good point
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My daughter was convinced he was passing the ball to his teammate further down court closer to the baseline. Then he threw up his hands to draw the call. I agree.
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@HoraceZontal thats how i saw it as well from the behind cam
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Agree on above, he tried to sell a shooting foul anticipating the call when he was trying to pass the ball to the corner.
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TBH hate both sides of that play. Hate when players try to anticipate the foul and that fouling up 3 is rewarded.
Feel like both these could be removed from the game if NCAA put a rule in place where the fouled team can choose to take the ball out instead of FTs. If that doesn’t go far enough, could also let the fouled team choose to have a 5-10 sec clock runout/reset when the game is under 1-2 mins.
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@MR11 interesting option, addition of time. I mean Duke gets extra time anyway, why not everyone else?
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Yeah I agree it’s not the best. Self actually prefers not to foul in that situation and with the way that play ended up being questionable I can see why. If this game were at UCF I don’t have confidence it would have been called the same way.
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Too risky probably but it was okay in the end. What to think about this team? I think we might have opened the door more than just a little bit. So many improbable plays at the end in Ames, double that down against Houston, and it would have been easier to lose to UCF than Houston. We have Flory and the three pointers which could be tenuous or not. We were top 10 tough defensively but that is fleeting maybe. Too many partially answered questions but we are closer than close it would appear. Do you think we can end the conference with just two more losses? How many words does it take to not say anything?
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@kjayhawks said in KU Mad, Central Florida next on schedule, part 2.:
@approxinfinity ya I hate to be a dick but no way no how he is shooting that in the frame shoot when the actual foul happened. With over 3 seconds why would you shot that from there?
Because he was trapped on the sideline?
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Not gonna keep arguing because I like that the refs favored KU again, just like they do for the…drumroll please, for the CHIEFS!!!
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Been hearing a lot lately that Every single player at some point this season has been very hot about way things are going---- - others production- — -rotation/playing time - —locker room issues.-- I guess there has been some petty long intense team meetings.
Things are NOT OK in that locker room…-- I seriously believe from what I hear that Rakease- --Rylan – -AJ – McDowell - - - Dickinson - - -Juan - - - - KJ - - Zach - Diggy – Moore - - WILL NOT RETURN next year, - people thinking they need to see more floor time ( What a surprise ) - -Complete overhaul- Don’t be shocked if Rylan AND - AJ both gone.
Truly feel that we could see Coach Self return next year and then hang it up
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@wissox I agree to disagree with you
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I thought if he was shooting the basket must have been in the corner. Good call.
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Clearly a foul on the floor and he threw his hands up afterwards. In real time it can be hard to tell but with the replay it is obvious
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The way the season has been going, I was just waiting for us to foul a 3 pt shooter there.
Not unprecedented with this bunch.
But probably the right call. Would not have surprised me if they said he was shooting. All players play up the drama in those situations.
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@SlimShaddy54 That’s the rumor mill but definitely more substantiated than just online fodder - there’s real truth to it
I’ve been saying Griffen is gone - that’s been known in Bama circles for a few weeks now.
Plenty unhappy with the core 3 sucking yet again and the guys brought in never getting a fair shot while treated like the step children
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@kuballin10 Ya been hearing from pretty informed that Rylan is not happy, feeling he had made a bad decision – but even with others playing or not playing, just a lot of turmoil,- Bad chemistry, a lot surrounding Hunter - bad vibes in the locker room.
More then anything too a just an observer you can tell-- something is just off -just not good mix.-- The talent is there, more then enough - -just not working and guess finding out some reasons why
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@Jhawk69 You say clearly. No, not clearly, could have gone either way.
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It could have gone the other way but it would have been a bad call, I think. We got lots of bad calls in our favor that night, but that wasn’t one of them. My opinion of course, which I dont think is biased this time
