KState game thread
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I think we need KJ but not at 28 minutes a game. Especially not that many minutes if he’s going to shoot 50% from the field for a guy that doesn’t shoot anywhere but from the foul line in. And for reference its 10% below his shooting % of his previous 2 yrs as a starter.
The short roll that worked last yr so much to generate o for him has been scouted out. It’s a scheme issue that we are putting KJ on the perimeter in position to be lightly or not guarded at all in my opinion. It’s year 2 of this and we don’t see any real adjustment.
KJ probably has earned his minutes by what he’s done the past 3 1/2 years but nobody does enough of what coach wants to beat him out.
When watching the game yesterday the 4 spot was a major concern.
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Wednesday is a must win. This is the worst TCU team Dixon has had in his tenure perhaps.
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@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:
Wednesday is a must win. This is the worst TCU team Dixon has had in his tenure perhaps.
Should be a better match-up for KJ-less KU as well. Kstate is BAD, but posed a real match-up problem with Hawkins.
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Yeah it does look like a favorable matchup at the 4. I’m surprised at the lack of talent on this frogs team tbh. Will only matter if we win though
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I would love to see a little more Griffen and Storr in Fort Worth. I think we played Flory a bit too much vs KSU with Hawkins. Would like to see a little more 4 guard with the right combination in this next one. Offense seems to not flow well with Shak and Juan out so we need to do better at subbing them IMO.
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@BeddieKU23 Well, we are clearly a better overall team with KJ on the floor than off. 28 minutes is not excessive. 35+ is. If Flory and Hunter are playing great then I have no problem with KJ playing fewer minutes. But if not then there is nothing wrong with 28 minutes from KJ.
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@Jhawk69 i think we have the potential to be better with AJ or Rylan on the floor than KJ in stretches, if they gain some confidence.
Also, I am concerned that against athletic teams, KJ + Hunter means giving up a lot of defensive rebounds and offers much less rim protection than Bidunga.
The logic of trying to identify the impact an individual has on our team vs a combination of individuals is where I feel like Bill may have run afoul.
This falls squarely in the same bucket of “only evaluating talent and not fit”
Its a big problem when you recruitguys that have critical insurmountable weaknesses. Like Hunts mobility or KJs rebounding and shooting.
I would argue that if we are playing against athletic teams, 28 minutes for KJ could definitely be a problem if it means pairing him with Hunt and sending Bidunga unnecessarily to the pine, especially if KJ has one nonfunctional arm.
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@approxinfinity That is fine to think, but the facts don’t support this take. We have a significant amount of data that shows that we are better with KJ in the game than with AJ or Rylan.
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@Jhawk69 I think you kind of missed the jist of my post.
I am saying we should not compare one player to another. We should compare the combination of players.
In this case, KJ + Hunter vs Rylan + Bidunga.
Not vs Rylan + Hunter.
Also, I would argue we dont have significant data because we have much more data about certain pairings than others.
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In addition, I think we need to focus on certain combinations against athletic teams.
Bill Self isnt the only person allowed to point at successful outcomes and declare it “fools gold”
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I see. For better or for worse, Bill has decided to go 2-bigs this year. I don’t endorse this option, for I think 4 around 1 has been established as the better option. But, on the other hand, no matter what the combination is, having KJ play the 4 helps our defense tremendously.
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@Jhawk69 but KJ isnt a guard. 4 around 1 implies i think that those are 4 guards that can shoot the 3.
I guess my question is if you think 4-1 is our best option how do you reconcile that with thinking we are best with KJ at the 4? That seems contradictory. Which is better?
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@approxinfinity To quote a fellow bucketeer, “I think you kind of missed the jist of my post.” I never said KJ was a guard. I said that Bill wants to play 2 bigs this year and not play 4 around 1.
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@Jhawk69 sorry i tried to clarify and edit my post but we are in real time
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Also, I know there isnt an obvious answer here and i’m not trying to suggest that we need to feel all one thing or another with mutual exclusivity. I think you have identified a conflict of needs and wondering how you think we should reconcile it.
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It’s been proven time and time again that Self does try to maximize the talent he has. Some guys only get short run to hide their flaws. It leaves us fans salivating for more and thinking the coach is a fool for benching whatever roll player is the flavor of the week. When given extended minutes they almost always prove to be just that - a roll player with serious holes in their game that the coach has to scheme around.
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@approxinfinity That’s a good question. If Rylan and AJ never get going I think the answer is pretty obvious. KJ at the 4, try to build around an elite defense and figure out ways to score enough to win games. But if Rylan and/or AJ figures it out I think things change. Maybe split time between KJ at the 4 and a 4 around 1 lineup. Or we could play things situationally. But at the end of the day, its all about tradeoffs. Is having the superior 4 around 1 structure worth the tradeoff of sacrificing KJs defense? It depends on whether another guard steps up and if so, to what extent.
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@Jhawk69 i dont think we can have an elite defense with KJ and Hunt on the floor together. Not against good teams. So, in my mind, the only way to accomplish an elite defense against those teams with KJ on the floor is with Bidunga at the 5 for rebounding and rim protection.
I dont think of KJ as an elite defender because of deficiencies in those areas, unless paired with someone who is a plus in those areas.
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On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn’t get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc…
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@approxinfinity KJ is not a good rebounder, which is disappointing. The past few weeks, he has been elite at the “stop the other team from making a basket” part of defense. Hunter is a better defender than he was last year but still is not elite. Flory is a higher upside defender than Hunter but also is prone to fouls. KJ, Flory, and Hunter should all play, and the way the minutes are distributed in a given game should be determined by matchups and who is playing well.
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That’s disappointing
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@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:
That’s disappointing
His energy the previous few games was a lot better so I do wonder why
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@approxinfinity and @Jhawk69 this is why I’m saying it’s so important to get Rylen and AJ going. There isn’t a ton of threat of us hitting threes outside of Zeke. Shak has played hard and is a good defender but offensively you only have to respect Zeke and Hunt. Most teams have 3 or 4 players with a foot in the paint against us at all times.
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@kjayhawks Yes. Getting Rylan and AJ going would help a ton. I don’t think anyone disagrees with this. But many simply assume that playing them more will get them going. Bill is handling them in his own way. Maybe its the right way and maybe its not, but I would trust him more than I would people on the internet.
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@Jhawk69 Historically, KJ has not been a good rebounder. But he’s been trending up over the season, rather significantly.
In the 3 games before he got hurt, KJ averaged 7.7 rebounds. It’s disappointing it’s taken this long (4th year), but if he can keep up this pace, and average 7-8 boards per game here on, I think that would reduce a lot of the criticism he’s been receiving.
I’m not smart enough to figure out how to upload an image here: 
But the increase in his rebounding rate looks nice.
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Got to thinking/wondering— what if ? - - What if we could of hung onto Zuby ?-- -would there of been any chance of him playing some four at KU ?-- Sure could use his scoring = – & Rebounding -rim protection.-- Plays for St Johns —14.5 ppg - - -8.2 rpg- - - -2 blocks per----- has 38 blocks on the year-- – 57 % fga- - -68.9 ft %.-- I realize different position that he is playing now but I think he still would be a sweet piece , hated to see him go
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@BShark said in KState game thread:
On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn’t get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc…
OK, so having watched Rylan play so far this season, doesn’t he seem like an awkward athlete?
He has as a smooth, fluid shot, but otherwise he seems to be fighting his body when he runs around.
Dribbling is not a strength.
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What speaks volumes is the fact that I couldn’t stay awake watching this game. It was as flat as a Dutch pancake.
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@Jhawk69 AMEN!
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@drgnslayr Whatever happened to the good old days when we would just get out and run & Run & Run
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@SlimShaddy54 Roy left.
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@tundrahok ya that’s what I was thinking exactly, miss those days
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in KState game thread:
@BShark said in KState game thread:
On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn’t get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc…
OK, so having watched Rylan play so far this season, doesn’t he seem like an awkward athlete?
He has as a smooth, fluid shot, but otherwise he seems to be fighting his body when he runs around.
Dribbling is not a strength.
Rylan is a catch and shoot player. I don’t know how this narrative that the 4th best player on Alabama was going to come in and suddenly transform into a star player. His best games for KU have been when catch and shoot has been his first role and he plays off of that.
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@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:
@Jhawk69 i dont think we can have an elite defense with KJ and Hunt on the floor together. Not against good teams. So, in my mind, the only way to accomplish an elite defense against those teams with KJ on the floor is with Bidunga at the 5 for rebounding and rim protection.
I dont think of KJ as an elite defender because of deficiencies in those areas, unless paired with someone who is a plus in those areas.
We can have a good defense with KJ and Hunter together because we’ve seen it before KJ’s injury. Shak Moore is why the KJ/Hunter paring can be good on defense. It allows Hunter to be able to play drop coverage and be a rim protector.
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@tundrahok i dont think that rebounding rate is sustainable because he still isnt boxing out and collecting defensive rebounds.
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@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:
@tundrahok i dont think that rebounding rate is sustainable because he still isnt boxing out and collecting defensive rebounds. Ulti
Part of it was definitely increased effort after the WVU game but another part of it was match-up based. Especially the UCF game. He likely would have be 3-ish rebounds if he played against KSU imo.
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I think he was on the upside, pt of emphasis
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To me this is evidence that Flory needs to be on the floor until he fouls out. Certainly more time to see if the observed stats hold more water than the predictive stats are accounting for: https://x.com/EvanMiya/status/1877778901545763307/photo/1
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@approxinfinity I don’t see sat’s starting lineup
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@Crimsonorblue22 yeah this graphic looks to be a week stale. Not sure if there is a current one.
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Interesting stat I found mentioned by Derek Johnson on his Twitter is that without KJ, this was the best offensive game this season by points per possession, but also our worst defensive game by points per possession. I have not been able to track down the numbers myself. The best I can find is EvanMiya.com offensive and defensive efficiency.
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@tundrahok said in KState game thread:
@Jhawk69 Historically, KJ has not been a good rebounder. But he’s been trending up over the season, rather significantly.
In the 3 games before he got hurt, KJ averaged 7.7 rebounds. It’s disappointing it’s taken this long (4th year), but if he can keep up this pace, and average 7-8 boards per game here on, I think that would reduce a lot of the criticism he’s been receiving.
I’m not smart enough to figure out how to upload an image here: 
But the increase in his rebounding rate looks nice.
I bet KJ has been reading KUbuckets and realized a hole in his game! Lol
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Our running days were with Roy! Had he decided to recruit from the entire country he might have left a bigger legacy in Lawrence!
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Yeah… hard to imagine having the Zuby/Udeh tandem in the paint now! Maybe Self could have run his original hi/lo with those two!
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I’ll say it again… KJ is the guy who holds the keys to this team! If he can keep trending up to near 10 rpg, defends and helps weak side, then regains confidence in that midrange floater…. He’s an enigma when he’s on his game because he’s so unconventional. But when he’s not on his game he’s a liability and a big ineffective donut hole on this team.
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Self agreed with you in his presser yesterday, didn’t use those words you used but mentioned how much they missed him defensively, his energy and leadership Saturday.
So, an important thing to watch Wednesday is who brings the energy for this team on the road. Storr and Griffen haven’t been assertive there. Flory has flair and brings it. Juan/Hunt/Mayo need to be the catalyst there.
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@drgnslayr said in KState game thread:
Yeah… hard to imagine having the Zuby/Udeh tandem in the paint now! Maybe Self could have run his original hi/lo with those two!
The one time I chatted with those two I tried to get them to imagine being the next great Kansas bigs. Twin towers in the paint as upper class men.
They obviously needed seasoning, but crap Zuby was starting it’s not like he didn’t get run. But run they did.
