Yesufu and Remy
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I think you haven’t seen Wilson at the 5 at all is because of the defense. Puts a lot of pressure on Wilson to guard guys bigger then him when he’s barely an avg defender as it is. He sure can rebound as good as anyone down on the block but my guess is that’s the biggest reason we don’t see it. On offense it would make sense especially if you watched Mitch in the Iowa St game get the ball in that top of the key/free throw line area and immediately his only action is to turn sideways to hand the ball back off to a guard. Dave absolutely killed ISU’s strategy on defense by being able to hit that midrange jumper.
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@BeddieKU23 a couple more feet and a few of them buckets would’ve been a 3. Could you imagine, Dave with a 3 game? Bill would NEVER!
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@BeddieKU23 I think the flip side of this argument is that it forces the other team’s 5 to guard away from the basket.
In games where Dave is the best big man on the floor, obviously this isn’t the best strategy.
In games like UK (or Oregon or USC) where the opponent’s big man is giving it to you regardless of who is guarding him, AND clogging up the lane with a long wingspan, you should just play 5 out. Pull that big guy out of the lane and open up the ability to drive for the other guards. Just front the post on defense, force the lob, and double on the catch.
How does that Oregon game change if you play Josh at the 5, and pull Bell away from the hoop? I’m not sure he is able to just hang out at the rim and swat our shots all game long. To me, it is really the only counter a 4 guard team with a weak spot at the 5 has against superior athleticism.
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Oh I totally agree about the strategy and the fact Wilson can put the ball on the floor and straight line drive past a 5 is potentially something that could be useful that hasn’t been used.
I’ve ran through the scenario’s why Jalen hasn’t gotten any run at the 5. 1- defense, 2- trusts Mitch too much and has “earned” the spot, 3- keeping Wilson’s responsibility & mind focused on his position he’s currently in. Perhaps behind the scenes they just want to keep him from pressing and having to remember where to be in sets playing 2 positions. I don’t know how complex it is to learn both, just throwing thoughts out there. He had some run there last year and at times it was pretty successful. Personally I would try this again because unless Mitch is 3 feet from the basket in scoring position what else does he bring on that end? So many examples from the Iowa St game alone where he wasn’t guarded at all on the catch there in the high post/midrange.
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@BeddieKU23 He won’t play Jalen at the 5. The rebounding disadvantage is too much.
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@FarmerJayhawk so all that being said I came in here saying how Self was wrong and you guys hammered me.
Glad you saw it my way in the summer but didn’t 2 weeks ago
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@Jethro said in Yesufu and Remy:
@BeddieKU23 He won’t play Jalen at the 5. The rebounding disadvantage is too much.
Agee Wilson not gonna play the 5. not a good fit
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@kuballin10 I also said all of a month ago play Yes more since Remy is out. But keep on keeping on with your narrative. I believe you can power through it!!
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@Jethro but play KJ at the 5?
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@FarmerJayhawk no narrative just you two on me that’s all - if we agree now then all good will move on
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@jayballer67 Wilson leads the team in rebounds? What he can’t defend the block against Oscar…neither can Dave or Mitch.
When it’s bad Dave (which is often) this is our best 5 players.
Harris Joe Och Braun WilsonI don’t want Mitch or KJ they don’t bring enough.
Top rebounders Wilson Dave Och Braun
You guys act like we are giving up a lot when in reality we are fine we have 6-6, 6-8, 6-8. Yes, if we play Oscar again I get it but after watching Svi shut down Bagley in the Elite 8…rolling with Wilson at the 5 puts our best players on the court.
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@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 Wilson leads the team in rebounds? What he can’t defend the block against Oscar…neither can Dave or Mitch.
When it’s bad Dave (which is often) this is our best 5 players.
Harris Joe Och Braun WilsonI don’t want Mitch or KJ they don’t bring enough.
Top rebounders Wilson Dave Och Braun
You guys act like we are giving up a lot when in reality we are fine we have 6-6, 6-8, 6-8. Yes, if we play Oscar again I get it but after watching Svi shut down Bagley in the Elite 8…rolling with Wilson at the 5 puts our best players on the court.
No Wilson can’t defend - e gets bullied around his frame will not take that bigger athletic 5’s will eat him up . . Kentucky come to mind -not alone Oscar but others. he can rebound the ball just fine from where he is at he needs to stay where he is Five is not a good fit- -there is no way he can defend a big 6’10 - physical big he just doesn’t have the stature for that you will never see him play the 5 spot for any extended amount of time IF any just won’t work
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Whenever Bad Dave shows up, whoever Self puts at the 5 is lacking in at least one significant area of their game. To me, that means it should be a situational determination on who gets those minutes. Jalen Wilson is by far the best offensive option and rebounder among the three options. Wilson is also the worst defender by quite a bit regardless of which position he’s playing.
KJ is the best defender of the three, but he can’t score and can’t rebound to the point where it hurts his defense because he gives up too many offensive rebounds. If Adams is in, Wilson almost has to be to help with rebounding, but if Wilson’s offense is off that game as well, that’s minimal offensive threat at the 4 and 5 spots.
Mitch is in the middle of those three categories which is why he gets the majority of the back up minutes. He’s not the offensive threat Wilson is, but he’s capable of getting the ball in the basket. He’s also an average rebounder for his size and he’s a better defender than Wilson and KU’s best shot blocker.
If KU gets into a situation where the defense is playing poorly and KU is losing, then I’d be in favor of Wilson at the 5 along with Harris and Yesufu/Pettiford/Martin next to him to help spark some offense and let KU play quicker.
If KU has a lead and needs to get some stops then, KJ is probably the best choice, but if it’s a tight game, I’d rather see Mitch because he’s going to make the right play 95% of the time which Wilson amd Adams won’t do.
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@jayballer67 what you said about Wilson is true but same for Mitch and Kj (he’s 6-6 and has played the 5).
I’m conceding D won’t be good but that’s okay I expect with Joe and Harris hounding the ball that I’m willing to give that up for having the 5 best basketball players and scorers on the floor.
Give up defense for better offense and pushing the pace. Opens things up for Och and Braun.
Also what Texashawk said the breakdown per player is correct each has their deficiencies.
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@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 what you said about Wilson is true but same for Mitch and Kj (he’s 6-6 and has played the 5).
I’m conceding D won’t be good but that’s okay I expect with Joe and Harris hounding the ball that I’m willing to give that up for having the 5 best basketball players and scorers on the floor.
Give up defense for better offense and pushing the pace. Opens things up for Och and Braun.
Also what Texashawk said the breakdown per player is correct each has their deficiencies.
I’m not saying anything about putting the best 5 on the floor, the thing is you try and put Jalen in that 5 spot which he is probably more then not one of our 5 best players- - -you put him in that 5 spot and get abused trying to defend all your gonn acomplish is getting him in foul trouble and then we lose one of our best five – just wouldn’t work. - But we all have our opinions nothing wrong with that
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@kuballin10 I don’t understand the need to be divisive and tell people they disagree with you. Is the goal to influence opinion or prove your superiority?
I think debate and differences of opinion are healthy. I also think that evolution of opinion is natural and trying to pin people down by the perception of past declarations is not constructive.
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@BShark said in Yesufu and Remy:
https://twitter.com/CJMooreHoops/status/1489695344464068609
lol
I hada heard was going to be an extended time – maybe ready for the NCAA’s - time for Joe to step up
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@jayballer67 you’re assuming he will get in foul trouble. You’re assuming the other team will feed the post like we feed Dave meanwhile most teams don’t they get out and run.
There is a definite risk of foul trouble but what we gain offensively (only when Dave is bad) seems worth it for 4-5 minutes a game…let’s see what happens.
6-8 trex svi shut down 6-11 235 Bagley…
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Divisive? It’s a message board…I came here stating emphatically Self screwed this up. As expected I got crapped on because I don’t see practice and I’m behind a computer. Divisive was never me it was people who didn’t like hearing at 18-3 we have some glaring holes keeping us from being the title team we thought we were coming into the season.
I like a good debate you will never offend me. I’ve enjoyed when people don’t just say “oh you don’t know” They come at me like dchawk and texashawk with reasons I’m right or wrong. That’s the point of any sports message board to discuss and analyze the team.
Not really following what your posts means I’m not superior I’m seeing that the roster has been mismanaged and pointing it out.
You taking offense as I’m lauding I’m superior is funny…no one on this board or pretty much all of coaching is superior to Self…but he does make mistakes that’s what I pointed out in my fan frustration.
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@kuballin10 Alright, well what I’m saying is that you’re telling people they disagree with you , and they’re telling you they don’t. What’s the point in telling them they had a different opinion than you in the past? Either 1. They did and now they see it differently. This is natural and as far as I see it, it would be a good thing. 2. They never saw it differently but you’re telling them they did and they say they didn’t. Why is this even worth arguing? What does it prove if they did, and isn’t the point lost? Imo the point is to debate the right now, not peoples positions past. That’s when you stop focusing on the team and on egos of posters. Not constructive, right?
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Anyway, we don’t need to harp on it, just an observation. I feel like your ideas on the team are good ones. Your ideas about who is/was right and wrong on here just isn’t going to result in anything.
I speak from experience. I’m always right but I don’t gloat about it.
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I like the idea of Jalen taking minutes at the 5 if we utilize what he can do at that position. His weakness is body size and defense. Patch together some weakside help, but know he may be burned. Just teach him not to low post foul.
Then what he should be doing is testing his hotness from trey. Get the opposing big out of the box and open up the lane for all of our guys to drive, including Jalen… and hopefully Jalen burns down some treys, too!
Our best speed at dribbling up the court is Jalen. He rebounds… he should drive down, get ahead of their big, either take it to the hole or feed for a trey shot.
For much of this season, I think most of us have been unhappy with the pace of games. We haven’t controlled tempo and we pay the price. We controlled the tempo at ISU and we owned them. So we need to speed up without playing sped up.
Combining Jalen at the 5 and Joe out there… we should be a fast team pushing a full-court offense.
You all know I support a horizontal game more than a vertical game. I’ll take Big Dave in the post when he’s performing. But when he’s not this is the time Self needs a short-chain.
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@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 you’re assuming he will get in foul trouble. You’re assuming the other team will feed the post like we feed Dave meanwhile most teams don’t they get out and run.
There is a definite risk of foul trouble but what we gain offensively (only when Dave is bad) seems worth it for 4-5 minutes a game…let’s see what happens.
6-8 trex svi shut down 6-11 235 Bagley… Are you saying teams won’ recognize and try to take advantage of matchup problems ? - -Sure most teams will get out and run but they don’t always transition to the finish. Most decent caliber coach can recognize a mis match - -doesn’t and won’t take them long. - -Wilson usually manages to stay away from a lot of foul trouble but if you put him at the 5 - -unless he is just gonna give un-contested shot after uncontested shot - -he WILL get in foul trouble and quickly if you try him at the 5. The opposition 5 backing him down - he just can not match up against legit P-5 Centers they will take him to the hole and school him like nobodys business and there would be a lot and ones- -AGAIN that will just not work a total mis match in every way shape or form
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@drgnslayr I advocated for it for a long time, but have come to realize it won’t happen. It has become the new “Perry at the 3”.
