Squid Game (Thread)
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This just sucked.
Being a fan can sometimes just be flat out painful.
Wish they were playing tomorrow and can beat the crap out of somebody, anybody, just took wash the stench out of my being
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Hoping for a better outcome tomorrow. GO CHIEFS !
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We just have no 5 men.
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The takeaway from this game for me is we need more talent. Remy was not the answer in this game either it’s not like he is super athletic. Thankful that we (hopefully) have 3 5*s coming in and Zuby is no slouch. Could use another guard though.
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Kentucky only scored 39 in the 2nd half and we still lost by 18. We got problems
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@tis4tim play KJ maybe in the first half…
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@BeddieKU23 said in Squid Game (Thread):
Kentucky only scored 39 in the 2nd half and we still lost by 18. We got problems
We have extreme problems in the paint and off the bounce. Not gonna get better this year.
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@BShark and Zuby and Udeh but all that doesn’t matter
Bill must play them, trust give, and give them long leashes
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@DanR lol I hope this is sarcasm they just game into our gym and bullied us
Championship…let’s get to the sweet 16 first
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@BShark funny how all those kenpom offensive rankings that were over inflated are coming down to earth. Anyone with an eye could see who this team is and their limitations
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@DCHawker and that falls on one mans shoulders and when he has the athletes he has to play them over his system loving guys who may be in the right place more but doesn’t matter not athletic enough to make the playoffs anyways
We can win 80% of the time or more be close for big 12 and choke in tourney
Or
Bill can actually look at what happened and adjust instead of just talking about it
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@kuballin10 said in Squid Game (Thread):
@tis4tim play KJ maybe in the first half…
As good a coach as Self is, his stubbornness never ceases to rile me up. We know how he does his rotations and he simply won’t change no matter if it is warranted or not.
Remy, Yes, and KJ are going to get limited run at best this season and if you think recruits don’t take note of how Self plays his cards then I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.
I sometimes long for the days when Roy would throw his sport coat into the first few rows and yank all his starters to send a message.
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Really besides trying kj, who else is there?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Squid Game (Thread):
Really besides trying kj, who else is there?
Not trying, commitment
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@kuballin10 said in Squid Game (Thread):
@BShark funny how all those kenpom offensive rankings that were over inflated are coming down to earth. Anyone with an eye could see who this team is and their limitations
The answers are not on the roster though. Maybe Joe with more time but it’s very clear that Remy is not the answer athletically either. Can’t take guys off the bounce except sometimes after he completely sucks the air out of the ball and can’t defend.
The only reason they were 17-2 with such limitations was because of Bill. My biggest gripe is that Mitch plays too much but other than that it’s been about as good as we could hope for considering the roster.
If you are good Bill will play you, Dotson played 1168 minutes as a FR and you can find other examples easily. I am guessing Udeh will have a chance to start at the 5, he is what Self looks for in a 5 man. So hopefully the post issues are solved given we go from Dave/Mitch/KJ to then hopefully Udeh/Zuby/Zach/KJ. Zach with an offseason should hopefully add some strength which is his biggest issue right now (aside from being hurt). I am still not convinced JWill comes back at all.
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Is Zach healthy?
He doesn’t have an answer at the 5 unless he lives with the fact, that he will have to live with the fact he has guys that will be young
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@BeddieKU23 No. Still wearing a boot.
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@tis4tim exactly farmer, bshark, ryan Noel OTOS…all of them can’t deny that Bills stubbornness in his ways does turn recruits off. They watch, they see and other coaches sell against him on this.
Does it mean he’s never played a freshman, no. No need to exaggerate but for almost 20 years there are plenty of better athletes and players that sat behind lesser players who “knew the system”
This is 100% on coach and after his usc press conference I thought he’s got it he’s gonna be a saban and make the adjustments
I was wrong which sucks
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Give Joe, Harris’ leash and we’d be a completely different team with him at the point. He can defend the ball and beat his man off the dribble.
Mitch has had some great minutes, bleeds red and blue but give KJ all of Mitch’s minutes and see where we’d be.
I agree part of this isn’t fixable but in no way did Self do everything in his power to maximize the efficiency of this team. If he’s all about defense like he says then no way he watched this team for months and thought this is gonna give us the best chance to win.
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Feel bad for Zach. He wouldn’t play even if he was healthy
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@kuballin10 said in Squid Game (Thread):
Give Joe, Harris’ leash and we’d be a completely different team with him at the point. He can defend the ball and beat his man off the dribble.
Mitch has had some great minutes, bleeds red and blue but give KJ all of Mitch’s minutes and see where we’d be.
I agree part of this isn’t fixable but in no way did Self do everything in his power to maximize the efficiency of this team. If he’s all about defense like he says then no way he watched this team for months and thought this is gonna give us the best chance to win.
Your idea to fix today was to play a guy who had 0 rebounds in 11 minutes all of the minutes of a guy who had 7 rebounds in 13 minutes in a game where KU got their ass kicked on the glass? Clearly that’s the fix. KJ has a sub 10% defensive rebound rate. That’s not going cut it to fix the issues of a below average rebounding team. Also, Yesufu is not the answer at PG. His PER is 5.9 on the year which is beyond terrible and has a turnover rate of 22% which is actually worse than Harris.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 KJ the same guy who delivered big against tech the best team we’d played prior to Kentucky? Yeah after that 20 point beatdown in the first half you bet KJ getting a few minutes was worth whatever “risk” u presume we lose by not having Dave and Mitch in there to lose rebounds.
You give the most athletic guard on the team the keys and let him go (not including och). He consistently beats his man off the dribble and is athletic enough to stop dribble penetration.
You are 100% correct his turnovers are terrible with pers because if he makes any mistake ANY (wrong switch, poor help, wasn’t in the right position, turns it over) he is immediately pulled even if he just checked in.
You played a sport before? I’ll assume so because you know that if you make one mistake you’re yanked versus the less athletic and talented guy who can make a million and stays in the game…answer me how you’d play?
Tentative and scared is the answer with zero confidence and “hoping” not to make a mistake.
Blowout loss to nova in final 4 Blowout loss to auburn Blowout loss to usc Blowout loss to athletic UK We shall see how the season ends but if it’s another round of 32 or sweet 16 blowout I sure hope Self actually matures and doesn’t “oh not gonna look at this game”
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@kuballin10 said in Squid Game (Thread):
@Texas-Hawk-10 KJ the same guy who delivered big against tech the best team we’d played prior to Kentucky? Yeah after that 20 point beatdown in the first half you bet KJ getting a few minutes was worth whatever “risk” u presume we lose by not having Dave and Mitch in there to lose rebounds.
You give the most athletic guard on the team the keys and let him go (not including och). He consistently beats his man off the dribble and is athletic enough to stop dribble penetration.
You are 100% correct his turnovers are terrible with pers because if he makes any mistake ANY (wrong switch, poor help, wasn’t in the right position, turns it over) he is immediately pulled even if he just checked in.
You played a sport before? I’ll assume so because you know that if you make one mistake you’re yanked versus the less athletic and talented guy who can make a million and stays in the game…answer me how you’d play?
Tentative and scared is the answer with zero confidence and “hoping” not to make a mistake.
Blowout loss to nova in final 4 Blowout loss to auburn Blowout loss to usc Blowout loss to athletic UK We shall see how the season ends but if it’s another round of 32 or sweet 16 blowout I sure hope Self actually matures and doesn’t “oh not gonna look at this game”
Sorry, but handing the keys to an undersized 2 guard and a guy who couldn’t even start a Drake last season is clearly the answer at PG. And in regards to KJ, a guy who has no offensive game and is an absolutely terrible defensive rebounder for a guy who pretty exclusively plays the 5 is not the answer for KU’s issues. I do like him as a defender, but when he can’t rebound his position, it pretty much negates his defense though when teams consistently get multiple chances against him and eventually will score.
I’m also fully aware that KU isn’t likely making past the 1st weekend again this year. A little history lesson for you. I was about the only person here who said USC was going to blow KU out last year because of their athleticism.
I’m also a basketball coach and just won a district championship today. I’m fully aware about giving a player a short leash in games and it almost always comes down to those players being bad or inconsistent in practice as well leading up that game. Go look at Yesufu’s game log from Drake last year, when he came on scoring wise, it was mostly because he became a volume shooter and wasn’t very efficient.
I get your obsessed with athleticism, but the upgraded athleticism KU brought in was in the form of low skilled players which creates a different set of issues we’re going to see rear its head next season most likely which a very low skilled team. Next season is going to be very rough on offense despite the improved athleticism. Next year might be a worse shooting team than last season and potentially an even worse defensive team as well.
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Wow. i think bitch slapped is about the best way to describe today’s game. Unpleasant for sure. exposed us athletically to say the least. No big insights to share, because really the game said it all. I know Wheeler and TyTy didn’t score a ton today, but who would you rather have on the floor, one of them or Harris? He’s just a liability in more ways than he helps. It sucks to have to say for sure, because he’s our guy. I know I hate on Harris a lot, but there should be so many other options on this team other than him. Physically developed guys. Sadly we have really no other PG options on the team. He’s it. Well, OK, Pettiford, but he’s hurt, and lost some development time.
Undeserved rant on Harris i suppose. He wasn’t the only issue today.
Dave’s a spaz still.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 gradey dick is a terrific shooter! I’ve watched a few of their games.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 congrats on the district title those are memories you won’t forget.
Yes, the undersized 2 guard id absolutely hand the keys too over what we have done instead. Frank was undersized and out of high school shot it all the time same for devontae’. You 100% give the guy who has shown his ceiling is incredible the same shot as the guy who will never bring us a title. Joe shot 12/14 and 4/8 for 36 against Evansville. His last 6–7 games plenty of volume no doubt but why did the coach not know he had this all season? Also, the more he shot he still scored all great players gotta shoot. Joe is plenty athletic and plenty skilled give him the Harris leash and you’d see that.
Same with self not identifying ochai right away then getting him here and still redshirting him. Crap went so bad he had no choice but to pull it. Self consistently plays the wrong guys.
You can say practice but someone insiders here say Zach is looking great in practice and then he doesn’t sniff the floor (pre injury).
I understand as a coach you want to see it in practice but when the lights are the brightest how guys perform is more important than practice. I played against a guy who was a great practice player then gets into a game he was awful just brutal. Same was reverse for another player he’d be alright in practice but not great get in a game and he could play. Self has his priorities mixed up and it’s February and he still can’t get the lineup down.
Yes, KJ I agree has no low post moves and is undersized but he’s dunked the last two games more than McCormick has the last 10. You 100% have no other options so play him like he’s jamari traylor jr and roll with the pro’s and cons. Funny if he was traylor he’d be starting.
When Braun and Harris are starting over whether it be Grady, mj, pettiford or Joe yeah this and the other ku boards will explode.
Same for bigs because udeh is a stud and zuby is a trob clone. Already has a jumper granted self won’t let him shoot one 12 footer and if he does he’s pulled.
Can’t ever get not pushing guys to be offensive threats and excel at their game versus “play in my system”. Your system has one title…one. Your system these last few years are ending in blowout loss and you at a podium making drastic claims about getting bigger and mortgage athletic. Put your money where your mouth is and make the changes.
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Congrats on your district championship. Nice.
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This post is deleted!
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The game was a bit demoralizing tbh. In the short picture the Kentucky game meant nothing for the big-12 race. In the big picture it meant so much more. I think when we see limitations that we know are not going away and will be exposed again us fans rarely miss what’s coming.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Squid Game (Thread):
The game was a bit demoralizing tbh. In the short picture the Kentucky game meant nothing for the big-12 race. In the big picture it meant so much more. I think when we see limitations that we know are not going away and will be exposed again us fans rarely miss what’s coming.
It didn’t change anything for me either because I expected it and said as much before the game. The team is realistically worse than their record because they are pretty tough and coached by Self.
This will be the last I speak on the UK loss. I am just…kinda surprised how much people (not you obvs but lots of people on 247 and twitter) refuse to see that it might just be that this roster doesn’t have the tools. How do you not see the lack of athleticism? I guess it’s easier for some people to blame Self than come to terms with the roster. We had no answer for Oscar. Loyalty is Self’s biggest strength and weakness at the same time. I still can’t believe we didn’t go out and try to get a real impact transfer for the interior. It’s been remedied for next year but we should have done better than adding Cam Martin. Someone that would have challenged Dave and…more importantly Mitch for minutes.
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@BShark It’s who also put that roster together though is it not?
We got more athletic then didn’t play some of those guys I think that seems to be this board and 247’s biggest gripe. Players with lower ceilings after what we just had happen last year getting more minutes than new guys.
Saw online someone said we need a legit power 5 guard to transfer in. Plenty of people replied yeah would be nice to have say the pac 12’s top scorer or something transfer in this offseason that would really help (sarcasm obviously).
Crazy to think we did and instead of using his strengths it became a breakdown him mentally and improve on things he’s not great at.
Transfer market will be more difficult moving forward.
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I will say I was shocked at the deficit and how poorly we scored and defended. If this was a road game the deficit probably would have been double what it was. Shouldn’t have been a game where you needed to amp the kids up but they never met the challenge. We regroup and hopefully learn but its really bad to see this team beaten the way they were and know that’s probably how it’s going to happen later in the season as well. I’m not giving up hope, I never do but man it felt like our wings got clipped and I was just now realizing it
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@kuballin10 said in Squid Game (Thread):
@Texas-Hawk-10 congrats on the district title those are memories you won’t forget.
Yes, the undersized 2 guard id absolutely hand the keys too over what we have done instead. Frank was undersized and out of high school shot it all the time same for devontae’. You 100% give the guy who has shown his ceiling is incredible the same shot as the guy who will never bring us a title. Joe shot 12/14 and 4/8 for 36 against Evansville. His last 6–7 games plenty of volume no doubt but why did the coach not know he had this all season? Also, the more he shot he still scored all great players gotta shoot. Joe is plenty athletic and plenty skilled give him the Harris leash and you’d see that.
Same with self not identifying ochai right away then getting him here and still redshirting him. Crap went so bad he had no choice but to pull it. Self consistently plays the wrong guys.
You can say practice but someone insiders here say Zach is looking great in practice and then he doesn’t sniff the floor (pre injury).
I understand as a coach you want to see it in practice but when the lights are the brightest how guys perform is more important than practice. I played against a guy who was a great practice player then gets into a game he was awful just brutal. Same was reverse for another player he’d be alright in practice but not great get in a game and he could play. Self has his priorities mixed up and it’s February and he still can’t get the lineup down.
Yes, KJ I agree has no low post moves and is undersized but he’s dunked the last two games more than McCormick has the last 10. You 100% have no other options so play him like he’s jamari traylor jr and roll with the pro’s and cons. Funny if he was traylor he’d be starting.
When Braun and Harris are starting over whether it be Grady, mj, pettiford or Joe yeah this and the other ku boards will explode.
Same for bigs because udeh is a stud and zuby is a trob clone. Already has a jumper granted self won’t let him shoot one 12 footer and if he does he’s pulled.
Can’t ever get not pushing guys to be offensive threats and excel at their game versus “play in my system”. Your system has one title…one. Your system these last few years are ending in blowout loss and you at a podium making drastic claims about getting bigger and mortgage athletic. Put your money where your mouth is and make the changes.
I’m sorry, but I can’t completely get on board with your vision. Your vision goes too far to the other extreme to me than what KU’s dealingwith now. There’s a reason why Calipari has the same number of national titles as Self does and it seems like that’s what you’d rather see.
In regards to Yesufu, I will almost guarantee his coach knew Yesufu was capable of going off and those 30 point games came against an Evansville team that was 9-16 last year. Against better teams, Yesufu’s stats came at the expense of winning games. Yesufu started Drake’s last 7 games and Drake only went 4-3 in those games. His production was nice, but not at the expense of winning games and Yesufu didn’t make Drake a better team. That’s kind of the hallmark of volume shooters is that their individual success frequently comes at the expense of team success. And no, I’m not convinced we’d see Yesufu light it up if he played as much as Harris considering Yesufu has made 2 FG’s since December started.
With Clemence, we’ve seen enough of him in games to know that he cannot play defense at this point. Whatever offensive skill he has, doesn’t make up for just how bad a defender he is at this point.
In regards to your KJ and Jamari comparison, that might be the best comparison for KJ, but Jamari Traylor was never a permanent starter for Self and never averaged more than 20 minutes per game in any season. Traylor actually only played 13 minutes per game his senior season. Your recollection and claims about how Jamari was treated by Self don’t match the reality of what happened with Traylor.
I am excited about this incoming freshmen class because there is a genuine upgrade in athleticism, but I’m also tempering my expectations because we don’t know if MJ Rice is actually going ever play a game for KU and that would be a huge blow to this class if he ends up deciding to go pro instead. Rice is the guy Self has to do whatever to make sure he gets to campus because he’s the guy in this class that is a scorer. I like Gradey Dick, but he’s much more of a shooter than a scorer and therefore much easier to guard than a player like Rice is. I also like Udeh and think he’ll develop into a great player, but he’s also extremely raw on offense and will be a liability on the offensive end his first couple of seasons.
I’m also not as enamored with Zuby as you are and pretty strongly disagree about the T-Rob comparison. Zuby has a solid offensive foundation, but like Clemence is a liability on defense and I don’t think he cracks the rotation next season. T-Rob was never a very skilled offensive player and was an elite defender. That’s not what Zuby is as a player.
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Udeh has about as much skill as Udoka coming in. Fortunately, he is also an absolute load physically.
Zuby has “projectible” skills at this point and you have to hope he continues to develop. The foundation is there though, he can become a solid shooter.
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@BShark said in Squid Game (Thread):
Udeh has about as much skill as Udoka coming in. Fortunately, he is also an absolute load physically.
Zuby has “projectible” skills at this point and you have to hope he continues to develop. The foundation is there though, he can become a solid shooter.
My biggest fear is that Harris is so unthreatening offensively that having another Doke won’t even matter. If we can’t draw a help side defender then you can’t get the ball to him. We see it now, with Dave. Harris is one of the worst kinds of offensive deficiencies because he isn’t a threat at any point in time on offense. Can’t take his guy 1v1 and he can’t shoot well enough to hold a weakside defender. We have 3 more years of watching him start over superior players. What’s worse is that I will be SHOCKED if we land a Top 20 PG with him on this team. This Remy situation is going to be used against us for years (and probably should be).
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@Kcmatt7 said in Squid Game (Thread):
@BShark said in Squid Game (Thread):
Udeh has about as much skill as Udoka coming in. Fortunately, he is also an absolute load physically.
Zuby has “projectible” skills at this point and you have to hope he continues to develop. The foundation is there though, he can become a solid shooter.
My biggest fear is that Harris is so unthreatening offensively that having another Doke won’t even matter. If we can’t draw a help side defender then you can’t get the ball to him. We see it now, with Dave. Harris is one of the worst kinds of offensive deficiencies because he isn’t a threat at any point in time on offense. Can’t take his guy 1v1 and he can’t shoot well enough to hold a weakside defender. We have 3 more years of watching him start over superior players. What’s worse is that I will be SHOCKED if we land a Top 20 PG with him on this team. This Remy situation is going to be used against us for years (and probably should be).
Ouch. Nailed my thoughts here. Kansas reporters were taking still shots of nobody guarding Harris last night on the perimeter and posting on twitter. It’s there for everyone to see every game and people are speaking about. Kentucky was shading a 2nd defender to stop our wings from driving. It’s just good coaching to do what Cal did. Every coach should. Harris isn’t magically going to score 25 and make you pay. Just handling the ball and moving it. Crazy
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Bobby being hurt and ill will have more unintended consequences then we can survive. He needed time on the court to become trusted and now is so far away from it with what’s happened. Meanwhile Harris gains more unwavering support from his coach with the minutes he plays and the remy situation being a complete mess. Will be used against Bobby going into next yr too.
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@BeddieKU23 Do you have links to that? Would love to see
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A few popped up during the game that i could not find now. Here’s a few
https://twitter.com/ChasenScott/status/1487582741965291520?t=BA99mRFC6n_bxXwL7yEHiA&s=19
Vernon took one
https://twitter.com/M_Vernon/status/1487571331860156417?t=WScURp5TNe5Wqk7ay9wKcA&s=19
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@BeddieKU23 As they should. Bill needs to get the memo. Agree on Bobby as well. Hoping against hope that he keeps getting some minutes down the stretch.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Squid Game (Thread):
A few popped up during the game that i could not find now. Here’s a few
https://twitter.com/ChasenScott/status/1487582741965291520?t=BA99mRFC6n_bxXwL7yEHiA&s=19
Vernon took one
https://twitter.com/M_Vernon/status/1487571331860156417?t=WScURp5TNe5Wqk7ay9wKcA&s=19
Notice, no one that needs to worry about having access to Self lol.
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For sure one notable one definitely deleted similar as those wrote. I’ll just leave it at that.
Obviously losing a game sucks. Hopefully Tuesday Harris and Dave combine for 40
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@BeddieKU23 this is going to make me rewatch this game.
Masochism I know, but I’m really curious now. Won’t be the last time this happens and I don’t know what the counter is other than to play Remy 35 mpg. Which won’t happen.
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I have yet to rewatch but I will regrettably.
We have seen Remy isn’t the answer we thought he would. His leash is also shorter then a choker
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So if reporters can see it and message board dorks like us can see it what is Self seeing?
Or assuming he sees it because he watches more film than any of us what is he doing to counter it like a great coach would?
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Joe with coaches confidence can do three major things better than Harris.
- stop dribble penetration
- get into the paint (we saw the lobs to McCormack in Orlando the second he came in)
- shoot it better than Harris
He isn’t Frank but he can do everything Harris is doing at a better level if given the confidence.
Clemence is bad defensively but better offensively. We are bad with Mitch on d so at least have some O.
Traylor - great points I thought he played more you’re right on here I double checked
Recruits - if they don’t get the leash they won’t develop and 10-12 games in self will say should have played them more. It’s a cycle. He wins and manages but the blowout losses are exposing some cracks.
Zuby - saw highlights - his jumper looks identical to trob. 6-8 215…trob 6-8 222. Both plenty athletic can run rim to rim.
Trob had some offensive skill the game was too fast. I remember a move at missery on the block he did and traveled but it was nice and you could tell he’s close to getting it. Pair that with his 12-15 foot jumper and he was money. I see similarities in body style and play just need a little time.
